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nemesis
07-20-2011, 11:44 PM
The Mariners have went from 2 games out to 13 games out in 11 days.

Lost 11 in a row while the Rangers have won 12 in a row.


Has a team ever fell so far so fast at this point in a season?

nemesis
07-21-2011, 12:31 AM
Found another one...

Keppinger has 163 AB's and has as many Walks (4) as HR's and has 2 more 2B's (9) than K's (7)

Sea Ray
07-21-2011, 10:42 AM
The Mariners have went from 2 games out to 13 games out in 11 days.

Lost 11 in a row while the Rangers have won 12 in a row.


Has a team ever fell so far so fast at this point in a season?

That is really something. Of course the Mariners are on their way to statistical history on their own:


The Mariners open play tonight with an OPS+ of 75. Last year's abysmal team -- with the worst offense in the DH era -- posted a 78. The 1899 Cleveland Spiders -- generally recognized as the worst team in baseball history -- were at 74.http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2015655214_not_enough_for_mariners_owners.html#con tinue

The offense is beyond abysmal. They are to be congratulated for staying in the race as long as they did. That was quite a feat in and of itself

buckeyenut
07-21-2011, 09:23 PM
Does that mean Felix is now available? If I am Walt, I am offering them all kinds of offensive prospects.

LvJ
07-21-2011, 09:27 PM
So I had to look up the 1899 Cleveland Spiders.

20-134.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLV/1899.shtml

This is fun to look at.

jojo
07-22-2011, 12:17 AM
Does that mean Felix is now available? If I am Walt, I am offering them all kinds of offensive prospects.

Felix is less available for trade than Safeco's retractable roof....

And this losing streak feels like it could go 30 games as easily as it could end tomorrow.

Eric Wedge will no doubt end it quickly though with a rousing speech that rallies the troops.

Sea Ray
07-22-2011, 09:39 AM
Eric Wedge will no doubt end it quickly though with a rousing speech that rallies the troops.

If it's that easy, what is he waiting for?

jojo
07-22-2011, 09:56 AM
If it's that easy, what is he waiting for?

It probably hadn't occurred to him before last night.......

Sea Ray
07-22-2011, 11:15 AM
So where do you see them going? Signing Fielder in the off season?

jojo
07-22-2011, 02:08 PM
So where do you see them going? Signing Fielder in the off season?

I honestly don't know. The Ms clearly have not attempted to compete this year choosing instead to take stock of younger players. I doubt they were planning on a world series in 2012.

I'm not sure how the FG stomach issue will play out. Also,I'm not sure what they are thinking about Ichiro. Remove those two as viable position players and it doesn't make sense to spend alot on the market.

Also, I'm not sure the Ms would spend Fielder type money on DH (Smoak is a major part of their plans).

I think they would be comfortable being young next year.

CTA513
07-23-2011, 10:46 PM
They are looking at 14 straight losses if they can't regain the lead in tonights game.
That would tie a franchise record according to what I heard on ESPN last night.

CTA513
07-24-2011, 04:17 PM
Mariners are down 10-3 in the 5th and will set a franchise record for consecutive losses (15) if they go on to lose todays game.

nemesis
07-24-2011, 05:28 PM
Mariners are down 10-3 in the 5th and will set a franchise record for consecutive losses (15) if they go on to lose todays game.


Wow. That is insane. Whats the record for most consecutive losses?

They need a huge shake up in Seattle. They need to reconfigure the park, get rid of Wedge and move Felix and Pineda for 7 to 10 players. That team needs a blow up.

Other than Smoak, B.Ryan (OPSing .668 out there, with that glove that's more than acceptable) and Ackley they need it all.

So the Reds take both Felix and Pineda the Mariners can have anyone they want in our farm system. Just one catcher though. Lol.

nemesis
07-24-2011, 05:33 PM
Another oddity...

For all the guff he takes for being a poor fielder, Yonder has committed ZERO errors in LF all season in Louisville.

jojo
07-24-2011, 05:59 PM
Wow. That is insane. Whats the record for most consecutive losses?

They need a huge shake up in Seattle. They need to reconfigure the park, get rid of Wedge and move Felix and Pineda for 7 to 10 players. That team needs a blow up.

Other than Smoak, B.Ryan (OPSing .668 out there, with that glove that's more than acceptable) and Ackley they need it all.

So the Reds take both Felix and Pineda the Mariners can have anyone they want in our farm system. Just one catcher though. Lol.

It's not nearly that bad in Seattle.

757690
07-24-2011, 06:02 PM
Another oddity...

For all the guff he takes for being a poor fielder, Yonder has committed ZERO errors in LF all season in Louisville.

You have to be able to get to the ball in order to commit an error. ;)

nemesis
07-24-2011, 06:33 PM
It's not nearly that bad in Seattle.

The team could lose 100 games again this year.

2011 - 43-58 Run Differential (-50)
2010 - 61-101 (-185)
2009 - 85-77 (-52)
2008 - 61-101 (-140)
2007 - 88-74 (-27)
2006 - 78-84 (-36)
2005 - 69-93 (-52)
2004 - 63-99 (-125)


2003 93-68 (+164) Is the last time this franchise had a positive RD. 2 years they defied their Pyragrath (lesson to those Reds fans who think they will turn it around due to theirs)

Going back 7 and 1/2 years the team had a RD of (-667).

They rank LAST aka 30th in all of baseball in Runs, Hits, Total Bases, RBI's, Batting Average (.224), OBP (.289), SLG % (.331) and OPS (.630).

They are .083 points off the league AVG in OPS (.718) and that's to be just middle of the road.


But your right. It isn't that bad.

Their Daily lineup consists of

RF Ichiro .633
SS Ryan .667
2B Ackley .852
1B Smoak .714
C Olivio .655
3B Kennedy .679
DH Cust .679
LF Carp .768
CF Guitierrez .461

Then great bench options like...

UT Figgins .476
DH Bradley .669 when healthy
IF Wilson .511
OF Halman .669
c Bard .660


And prospects like

OF Peguero .660
OF Saunders .471
3B Seager .376

At what point is it bad JoJo?

jojo
07-24-2011, 06:49 PM
The team could lose 100 games again this year.

2011 - 43-58 Run Differential (-50)
2010 - 61-101 (-185)
2009 - 85-77 (-52)
2008 - 61-101 (-140)
2007 - 88-74 (-27)
2006 - 78-84 (-36)
2005 - 69-93 (-52)
2004 - 63-99 (-125)


2003 93-68 (+164) Is the last time this franchise had a positive RD. 2 years they defied their Pyragrath (lesson to those Reds fans who think they will turn it around due to theirs)

Going back 7 and 1/2 years the team had a RD of (-667).

They rank LAST aka 30th in all of baseball in Runs, Hits, Total Bases, RBI's, Batting Average (.224), OBP (.289), SLG % (.331) and OPS (.630).

They are .083 points off the league AVG in OPS (.718) and that's to be just middle of the road.


But your right. It isn't that bad.

They've got a good farm system, what looks like a decent, young core of position players, two TOR arms (and a demonstrated ability to fill the bottom three with roughly average arms) and they could spend any amount of money they feel like. This is (and always was) basically a stop gap year that frankly was unexpected icing until roughly two weeks ago.

In the vane of Yogi Berra, i'd say this-fifteen game losing streaks always make things look worse than they really are.... :)

nemesis
07-24-2011, 07:07 PM
They've got a good farm system, what looks like a decent, young core of position players, two TOR arms (and a demonstrated ability to fill the bottom three with roughly average arms) and they could spend any amount of money they feel like. This is (and always was) basically a stop gap year that frankly was unexpected icing until roughly two weeks ago.

In the vane of Yogi Berra, i'd say this-fifteen game losing streaks always make things look worse than they really are.... :)



You and I both know that even with all the talent they have in the Minors, that Safeco eats away at that talent. Sure it helps make some BOR arms look much better than they are... Hence why I am no way shape of for interested in Pfister or Vargas, but 3 years of loosing 100 games out of 4, and having 3 legit bats in your order (Ichiro, Smoak and Ackley) sceams rebuild. They need more than just a few prospects. The easiest way to get that is deal Felix to a team who is loaded in position prospects in AA or above and has the room to take him on Payroll wise. That leaves just a handful of teams. Boston, Cincy, Yankees, Cleveland?

Wouldn't that be the best option for this team right now?

jojo
07-24-2011, 07:34 PM
Wouldn't that be the best option for this team right now?

No. They've got a good farm system, what looks like a decent, young core of position players, two TOR arms (and a demonstrated ability to fill the bottom three with roughly average arms) and they could spend any amount of money they feel like.

signalhome
07-24-2011, 09:10 PM
Another oddity...

For all the guff he takes for being a poor fielder, Yonder has committed ZERO errors in LF all season in Louisville.

Can't make an error on the balls you don't get to. :D

Seriously though, he can't be that bad, can he? On a scale from Adam Dunn to Carl Crawford, what are we looking at with Alonso?

fearofpopvol1
07-25-2011, 01:14 AM
No. They've got a good farm system, what looks like a decent, young core of position players, two TOR arms (and a demonstrated ability to fill the bottom three with roughly average arms) and they could spend any amount of money they feel like.

But until they spend that money, they're a while off from winning any division. If they're not going to spend that money, then they should be looking at a proper rebuild.

nemesis
07-25-2011, 01:19 AM
But until they spend that money, they're a while off from winning any division. If they're not going to spend that money, then they should be looking at a proper rebuild.

Agreed.

No team should have more money to go out and get Fielder than the Mariners. Slide him into the DH roll and be done with it.

mdccclxix
07-25-2011, 01:32 AM
I think the Pirates are likely to suffer a similar fate before the end of the year, the pitching will collapse around a terrible offense. I think SF can fear a similar fate as well, that's why they're most likely to overpay for Beltran. For them, it's worth it.

CTA513
07-26-2011, 11:56 PM
Mariners are now up to 17 straight losses after losing 4-1 to the Yankees

nemesis
07-27-2011, 12:41 AM
Mariners are now up to 17 straight losses after losing 4-1 to the Yankees

longest I can recall in my memory was that Baltimore streak some years back.

mdccclxix
07-27-2011, 12:58 AM
I think their GM Jack Z. should answer to this streak. Their offense is so bad. Bats like Hermida and Gomes and Lewis would improve their lineup, but they've got nothing, even in the minors.

jojo
07-27-2011, 10:42 AM
If this streak continues for another week or two, it'll start to turn ugly.... :)

jojo
07-27-2011, 10:43 AM
I think their GM Jack Z. should answer to this streak. Their offense is so bad. Bats like Hermida and Gomes and Lewis would improve their lineup, but they've got nothing, even in the minors.

Their minor league system is pretty good.

IslandRed
07-27-2011, 01:47 PM
No. They've got a good farm system, what looks like a decent, young core of position players, two TOR arms (and a demonstrated ability to fill the bottom three with roughly average arms) and they could spend any amount of money they feel like.

I suppose for Jack Z.'s sake, the farm system better start paying off in the W-L soon, or they'd better start feeling like spending money. The grace period for blaming it all on Bill Bavasi is about to run out. :p

mdccclxix
07-27-2011, 01:57 PM
Their minor league system is pretty good.

I'll take your word for it. I posted this over at the USS Mariner website:


I think there are guys like Carp that litter the minor leagues, who may be split heavy or somehow flawed, but building an outfield that can OPS north of .586 should be do-able. If there is an area to improve, itís scouting the minors, and scouting your own team so youíre able to bail on Saunders earlier, or bring up Carp earlier, etc.

Overall, I have found it somewhat cruel of Jack Z to have done very little to improve the offense when the team was responding to being given next to nothing offensively with a spirited first half. It just seems cruel, if not inept. Especially after last years offensive showing.

Hollcat
07-27-2011, 03:15 PM
How about this oddity
Over the past 30 days the Cardinals have stolen 1 base. That was by Molina.

jojo
07-27-2011, 08:04 PM
I'll take your word for it. I posted this over at the USS Mariner website:

You have to remember that FG has had a severe stomach issue and is still about 10-15 lbs below his playing weight so his bat has been decimated with his strength. Ichiro is having a year no one would've predicted. Hopefully its not him finally reaching his cliff. So it's not fair to characterize the situation as the Ms can't field an outfield that OPS above .600.

Left field is s problem. But this was supposed to be a building year to begin with and left field was going to be a learning curve with significant numbers of PAs going to Halman/Saunders so the Ms could actually see what they got in these two... FG's problems complicated this.

Also it's unfair to characterize the Ms system by using Carp as the face of the system. Carp is a fringe player who is getting at bats in Seattle because of a string of confluences. No one thinks of him as the answer or even a potential answer.

The system is better characterized by the Pineda's/Ackley's/Franklins etc...

mdccclxix
07-27-2011, 08:15 PM
No doubt some tough luck with Guti. Saunders was just painful to watch fail. I don't mischaracterize their system. It likely is great. My point is that Jack Z had all offseason and a good portion of the beginning of the year to find some scraps to piece together, ala Carp, to stabalize the offense. I'm not thinking of permanent pieces, more like the Hermida's, Wily Mo's, Dorn's, and other FA vets that the Reds have always signed (Aurellia, Hatteburg, etc). Kennedy for example has worked out to an extent. The offense is so bad, I find it somewhat cruel to the team or insulting to the fans that he couldn't swing some improvements. It's a long year. In fact, starting now, they should be looking for some improvements to finish the year with a fresh taste. It is just ugly what he's done to the offense. He set the franchise record in consecutive losses, and there have been some horrible, horrible teams in their history. That says a lot to me. Especially given their staff.

Oh, and please shut down Pineda soon.

mdccclxix
07-27-2011, 09:07 PM
As if I had Jack Z's phone #:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/07/mariners-sign-wily-mo-pena.html