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View Full Version : Should Carson Palmer "man up?"-



Matt700wlw
07-22-2011, 03:32 AM
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/15341423/man-of-his-word-palmer-has-previous-promise-to-kee

Redsfaithful
07-22-2011, 07:05 AM
That Chargers game really was something last year. Would have liked to have seen if it was a fluke or something to build on with the young receivers.

RedFanAlways1966
07-22-2011, 07:26 AM
Huge Bengals fan here... have bought two Carson Palmer jerseys in his time with the team. I do not know if I can accept him back. You signed a extension and now you like to make threats about quitting. You care more about yourself than the team. Screw you pretty boy.

gonelong
07-22-2011, 09:10 AM
If he sits out the season, then he is "manning up" IMO.

GL

JaxRed
07-22-2011, 09:24 AM
Frankly I think he's manning up by standing up to Mike Brown.

Danny Serafini
07-22-2011, 10:29 AM
If he sits out the season, then he is "manning up" IMO.

GL


Frankly I think he's manning up by standing up to Mike Brown.

Signing a contract, taking home millions of dollars and then deciding you don't want to honor the deal you made because you don't like your boss is the exact opposite of "manning up".

Eric_the_Red
07-22-2011, 11:19 AM
Signing a contract, taking home millions of dollars and then deciding you don't want to honor the deal you made because you don't like your boss is the exact opposite of "manning up".

Exactly. If he gave back the pro-rated portion of the money he has not earned for sitting out, then maybe I'd be more willing to agree that he has manned up.

IslandRed
07-22-2011, 11:23 AM
Tough call for me. As a rule, I'm not a fan of the variants of "gimme or I'll hold my breath until I pass out." But playing in the NFL is a terrific grind, and if a guy doesn't need the money and doesn't believe in his organization and can't get out of his organization, then yeah, I can see where he could start to wonder why he's still playing. Players always have the right to walk away from the game, just as the game inevitably closes the door on players.

The one thing I don't believe will happen is a trade. So either Palmer retires, which is his right, or he'll come back with an explanation that they cleared up some misunderstandings and he now believes in the future direction of the team, blah blah blah.

RiverRat13
07-22-2011, 12:31 PM
Does anyone really want Carson back anyway? He's simply not very good.

CTA513
07-22-2011, 12:48 PM
He should come back and force Brown to make a decision.

gonelong
07-22-2011, 01:31 PM
Signing a contract, taking home millions of dollars and then deciding you don't want to honor the deal you made because you don't like your boss is the exact opposite of "manning up".

I understand your point of view and can't really take a hard stance against it. On the other hand ...

A NFL "contract" isn't worth the paper is printed on. If Brown feels he has been shortchanged he can take that up with the NFL/court system.

For the time being, Palmer has plainly stated he would rather retire than play. This gives Brown the opportunity to trade him if he'd like. Brown has to play hardball with Palmer because he runs that team so shabbily that the setting the precident that you can force your way out of Cincinnati would start a bumrush for the exit. If Palmer comes back to play for the Bengals, I'll think very little of him.

If he is willing to sacrifice a truckload of cash and a year of his career for his beliefs, that is manning up IMO, on a path that few are willing to tread.

GL

/Bengals fan. *sigh*

HatchMo
07-22-2011, 01:51 PM
getting out of cincinnati will be good for him. The bengals organization is atrocious, i know if i was in the NFL i wouldn't want anything to do with the bengals or mike brown.

Oxilon
07-22-2011, 02:10 PM
I can't blame Palmer for making that decision. He's certainly not in the right on the manner, but I don't blame him one bit.

Caveat Emperor
07-22-2011, 06:29 PM
Palmer knew EXACTLY what franchise he was signing up to play for when he inked his name to the contract.

It's not like new ownership or a new coach came in and undercut what he thought he was getting himself into -- he signed a deal with Mike Brown to play football in Cincinnati with Marvin Lewis as his head coach. He knew everything about the situation. He could have waited and left in free agency, but he didn't.

Captain Hook
07-23-2011, 11:14 AM
Palmer knew EXACTLY what franchise he was signing up to play for when he inked his name to the contract.

It's not like new ownership or a new coach came in and undercut what he thought he was getting himself into -- he signed a deal with Mike Brown to play football in Cincinnati with Marvin Lewis as his head coach. He knew everything about the situation. He could have waited and left in free agency, but he didn't.

Not a Bengal fan but I agree with this.

I do feel bad for Carson that he had to play with Owens and Johnson last year.That side show had to be huge distraction to the team not to mention those guys probably ran their mouths and got in Carson's head.I do put some of the blame on him though.To be a successful QB in the NFL you need to be the one running your mouth, getting in the other guys head and if your a great QB your the one that defines what your team and organization is.If those guys said one thing to me and they wouldn't see another ball thrown their way the rest of the game.If the coach or owner had a problem with that then they could trade me but that's the way it would be.A great QB is the most powerful position in all of sports but there's not really too many good excuses when you fail.

Playadlc
07-24-2011, 04:35 AM
The retirement may very well be a blessing in disguise.

Forget Carson. It's Dalton time.

KoryMac5
07-24-2011, 09:06 AM
I could see Mike Brown working out a deal with Palmer to where he comes back this season to groom Dalton and is then dealt the following season like Boomer. If he decides to retire thats 11-12 million off the books while Dalton plays on the cheap for 2-3 yrs.

nmculbreth
07-24-2011, 12:16 PM
The retirement may very well be a blessing in disguise.

Forget Carson. It's Dalton time.

Absolutely. This definitely helps their cause in the Andrew Luck sweepstakes.

SeeinRed
07-24-2011, 04:30 PM
It is just my opinion, but I get tired of hearing Carson's ultimatum trumpeted as some great stand against Mike Brown. In no way does what Carson is doing change anything with the way Mike Brown does business. Way to stick it to the man, retire at a young age with enough money in the bank to live very comfortably and luxuriously.

Honestly, I don't begrudge Carson for retiring. He has sacrificed a lot in terms of time and health to earn the money he has made so far. He is turning money down to retire, but in no way do I think he should be lauded for the amount he is turning down. He will make plenty in other ventures or if he were to return in the future. He would not be in a position to give an ultimatum if he was not already financially set. He isn't a hero, he is just a player that feels more comfortable walking away than playing in Cincinnati and continuing to fight for change IMO. He knew that retirement would likely be his only option when he let Mike Brown know about his stance. In no way does a person walking away from a tough situation equate to them making a stand IMO.

He is just a person who thinks he is doing what is best for him and his family. I can respect that, but it certainly isn't being done for the good of the Bengals or the fans.

TheBigLebowski
07-25-2011, 10:49 AM
It is just my opinion, but I get tired of hearing Carson's ultimatum trumpeted as some great stand against Mike Brown. In no way does what Carson is doing change anything with the way Mike Brown does business. Way to stick it to the man, retire at a young age with enough money in the bank to live very comfortably and luxuriously.

Honestly, I don't begrudge Carson for retiring. He has sacrificed a lot in terms of time and health to earn the money he has made so far. He is turning money down to retire, but in no way do I think he should be lauded for the amount he is turning down. He will make plenty in other ventures or if he were to return in the future. He would not be in a position to give an ultimatum if he was not already financially set. He isn't a hero, he is just a player that feels more comfortable walking away than playing in Cincinnati and continuing to fight for change IMO. He knew that retirement would likely be his only option when he let Mike Brown know about his stance. In no way does a person walking away from a tough situation equate to them making a stand IMO.

He is just a person who thinks he is doing what is best for him and his family. I can respect that, but it certainly isn't being done for the good of the Bengals or the fans.

Carson Palmer is a jackass. If I thought that there was even a small chance that his ultimatum would effect real and true change within the Bengals organization, I would be all for it, even though I disagree vehemently with what he's doing. The guy was flat out awful last year. He's got the leadership qualities of a dead snail and the charisma of cardboard paper. How's he going to make money if he retires? No company would hire him to be a pitch man unless they were bound and determined to lose money.

I WANT him to retire and waste away. He's awful. We're not winning anything this year with or without him. Let's see what Dalton can do. If he doesn't look like the answer, we draft another QB. But I really think Dalton is going to be a good one.

bucksfan2
07-25-2011, 11:28 AM
It is just my opinion, but I get tired of hearing Carson's ultimatum trumpeted as some great stand against Mike Brown. In no way does what Carson is doing change anything with the way Mike Brown does business. Way to stick it to the man, retire at a young age with enough money in the bank to live very comfortably and luxuriously.

Honestly, I don't begrudge Carson for retiring. He has sacrificed a lot in terms of time and health to earn the money he has made so far. He is turning money down to retire, but in no way do I think he should be lauded for the amount he is turning down. He will make plenty in other ventures or if he were to return in the future. He would not be in a position to give an ultimatum if he was not already financially set. He isn't a hero, he is just a player that feels more comfortable walking away than playing in Cincinnati and continuing to fight for change IMO. He knew that retirement would likely be his only option when he let Mike Brown know about his stance. In no way does a person walking away from a tough situation equate to them making a stand IMO.

He is just a person who thinks he is doing what is best for him and his family. I can respect that, but it certainly isn't being done for the good of the Bengals or the fans.

It cuts both ways with me. On one hand if any NFL player wants to retire early I admire them. Football is a debilitating sport that effects you physically as you go on in life. If Carson were to retire 5 years early and save his body another few years of pounding then I think that is one heck of an idea. Apparently he has enough money stashed away to live a very comfortable life without working another day. If that is his sole agenda then kudos to him.

However I don't really care for the ultimatum. He knew exactly what he was getting into when he signed his multi million dollar deal. He know the organization he was playing for and knew what kind of owner Brown was. I don't feel sorry for him one bit that he has a big contract and Mike Brown doesn't want to move him.

And lets be honest Carson's game has gone down hill ever since his knee injury in the playoffs over 6 years ago. He hasn't had the same pocket presence, he doesn't have the same zip on the ball, and has had a case of happy feet in the pocket. Its unfortunate because over the past few drafts the Bengals have really tried to help Carson and the offense. Smith, Gresham, Shippley, and Green all have been drafted in hopes of improving the offense. Yea you can knock the Smith pick but it was meant to help improve the offense.

His biggest issue is his leadership. He has never really controlled the huddle and it has shown big time. He let guys like Chad, TJ, TO run the huddle and Carson has taken a back seat to them. More recently you have seen him shrug his shoulders and walk back to the sidelines with his head down instead of demanding more from his WR's. He just never had that "it" quality to take him to the next level. Early in his career I thought he was destined for greatness but as he grew it became evident he was destined for mediocrity.

FWIW I wish the Bengals would trade him for a high draft pick but don't have much of a problem with Brown sticking to his guns on this one.

remdog
07-25-2011, 03:57 PM
Carson Palmer has had a much better career for the Bengals than Mike Brown. Nuff said.

Rem

CTA513
07-25-2011, 04:03 PM
Carson Palmer is a jackass. If I thought that there was even a small chance that his ultimatum would effect real and true change within the Bengals organization, I would be all for it, even though I disagree vehemently with what he's doing. The guy was flat out awful last year. He's got the leadership qualities of a dead snail and the charisma of cardboard paper. How's he going to make money if he retires? No company would hire him to be a pitch man unless they were bound and determined to lose money.

I WANT him to retire and waste away. He's awful. We're not winning anything this year with or without him. Let's see what Dalton can do. If he doesn't look like the answer, we draft another QB. But I really think Dalton is going to be a good one.

Why would he need to make money?
From the sound of it he doesn't blow his money like other players do.

kaldaniels
07-25-2011, 04:14 PM
Why would he need to make money?
From the sound of it he doesn't blow his money like other players do.

30 million banked if I heard right a few months back.

dougdirt
07-25-2011, 05:45 PM
Signing a contract, taking home millions of dollars and then deciding you don't want to honor the deal you made because you don't like your boss is the exact opposite of "manning up".

I am pretty sure that in every contract there is a clause in there for retirement. Therefor he isn't "not honoring" the deal. It isn't like he gets paid for all of those years he doesn't play if he retires.

dougdirt
07-25-2011, 05:47 PM
Palmer knew EXACTLY what franchise he was signing up to play for when he inked his name to the contract.

It's not like new ownership or a new coach came in and undercut what he thought he was getting himself into -- he signed a deal with Mike Brown to play football in Cincinnati with Marvin Lewis as his head coach. He knew everything about the situation. He could have waited and left in free agency, but he didn't.

Of course maybe there were things said to him that would be coming, that simply never happened.

dougdirt
07-25-2011, 05:49 PM
30 million banked if I heard right a few months back.

I have heard it is a lot more than that.

Danny Serafini
07-25-2011, 05:50 PM
I am pretty sure that in every contract there is a clause in there for retirement. Therefor he isn't "not honoring" the deal. It isn't like he gets paid for all of those years he doesn't play if he retires.

He's not going to get paid for those years, no. But it doesn't change the fact that he committed to X number of years, signed his name on the dotted line, and then decided he didn't want to live up to what he agreed to simply because he doesn't like his boss. That is not honoring a deal.

IslandRed
07-25-2011, 06:12 PM
He's not going to get paid for those years, no. But it doesn't change the fact that he committed to X number of years, signed his name on the dotted line, and then decided he didn't want to live up to what he agreed to simply because he doesn't like his boss. That is not honoring a deal.

Do you find it equally dishonorable when the team cuts a player before the end of a contract because it doesn't think the player is good enough anymore or he's not worth the money to be paid to him in the future? (Which happens several hundred times a year across the NFL...)

If you say yes, then fine. If no, and the argument is that the contract allows the team to do that, then, the contract also allows the player to retire.

Hoosier Red
07-25-2011, 08:33 PM
Signing a contract, taking home millions of dollars and then deciding you don't want to honor the deal you made because you don't like your boss is the exact opposite of "manning up".

He isn't taking any money that wasn't already agreed to. He took exactly the amount negotiated for, and has performed exactly as much as he promised to perform in exchange for the money he was paid.

That said, I agree this isn't much of a stand. It's more a realization that he didn't want to play for the Bengals anymore.

paintmered
07-25-2011, 11:03 PM
What does Carson gain by taking a stand and promoting change within the Bengals organization at this stage in his career? Not a thing. Because by the time it materializes, he'll be at the very tail end of his career and won't be able to take advantage.

As Hoosier said, I think it's a simple matter of him looking at his options and prioritizing them based what he found most desirable: first is to be traded, second is to retire, third is to play for the Bengals. Since SoP will never trade Carson, option two it is then. I don't think Carson being heroic nor is he being a coward by retiring. He is putting himself first, though, and I can't blame him for it. In in his situation, I'd make the same choice.

SoP never puts his players above making a buck, so why should the players put SoP and the organization above them?

Redsfaithful
07-26-2011, 06:30 AM
Of course maybe there were things said to him that would be coming, that simply never happened.

No way to know for sure, but I think there's probably truth to this.

cincrazy
07-26-2011, 05:11 PM
"We're like Snow White and the Seven Dwarves -- high ho, high ho! -- with the spirit over there today." Direct quote from Bengals owner Mike Brown.

And people wonder why Carson wants to retire? :)

KronoRed
07-26-2011, 05:16 PM
Asked why he wouldn't trade the 31-year-old Palmer and get some draft picks in return, Brown said it was a matter of principle.

"Carson signed a contract. He made a commitment. He gave his word," Brown said. "We relied on his word. We relied on his commitment. We expected him to perform here. He's going to walk away from his commitment. We aren't going to reward him for doing it."

So getting something of value and perhaps helping the team is less important then "he made a promise, we're gonna be grumpy"

Loons.

IslandRed
07-26-2011, 06:33 PM
So getting something of value and perhaps helping the team is less important then "he made a promise, we're gonna be grumpy"

Loons.

He probably doesn't want to hand a how-to-get-out-of-Cincinnati game plan to future disgruntled Bengals... especially because there are almost always disgruntled Bengals.

Danny Serafini
07-26-2011, 06:56 PM
Do you find it equally dishonorable when the team cuts a player before the end of a contract because it doesn't think the player is good enough anymore or he's not worth the money to be paid to him in the future? (Which happens several hundred times a year across the NFL...)

If you say yes, then fine. If no, and the argument is that the contract allows the team to do that, then, the contract also allows the player to retire.

I do have a problem with teams dropping players anytime they want for free like that. I understand they have the collectively bargained right to do so, but fundamentally it's still wrong. It's a contract, both sides should have to live up to it. I was hoping to see true guaranteed contracts come out of these negotiations, because the players deserve them.

dougdirt
07-26-2011, 07:48 PM
I do have a problem with teams dropping players anytime they want for free like that. I understand they have the collectively bargained right to do so, but fundamentally it's still wrong. It's a contract, both sides should have to live up to it. I was hoping to see true guaranteed contracts come out of these negotiations, because the players deserve them.

You are missing the point though.... within the contract that you want honored, there are clauses for both the release of a player and the retirement of a player that both sides agreed upon. It is part of the contract and by releasing the player or the player retiring, is agreeing to certain terms of the contract.

Redhook
07-26-2011, 10:08 PM
I'm still 100% on Carson's side. Granted he hasn't pulled off this stunt off well, but anything that goes against Mike Brown is a positive in my book. I hate that man more than the Steelers. And that's saying something.

kaldaniels
07-26-2011, 11:44 PM
You are missing the point though.... within the contract that you want honored, there are clauses for both the release of a player and the retirement of a player that both sides agreed upon. It is part of the contract and by releasing the player or the player retiring, is agreeing to certain terms of the contract.

Agreed. If within said contract there is a retirement clause, and Carson exercises it, he did not break the contract.

KronoRed
07-27-2011, 12:08 AM
He probably doesn't want to hand a how-to-get-out-of-Cincinnati game plan to future disgruntled Bengals... especially because there are almost always disgruntled Bengals.

True, half the team would retire, I also think it's funny Brown flat out admits getting out of Cincinnati is a reward.

Redhook
07-27-2011, 07:18 AM
I also think it's funny Brown flat out admits getting out of Cincinnati is a reward.

:lol:

Hoosier Red
07-27-2011, 08:24 AM
You are missing the point though.... within the contract that you want honored, there are clauses for both the release of a player and the retirement of a player that both sides agreed upon. It is part of the contract and by releasing the player or the player retiring, is agreeing to certain terms of the contract.

I think people misunderstand the parameters of contracts. I hear the complaint of, "Why does he want to renegotiate, if he didn't want to sign for 7 years, he shouldn't have signed for 7 years."
But contracts have never been steadfast documents which would never be touched.

They simply state that until the end of the contract, or until it's somehow amended, XXXX player will be paid XXXX dollars so long as he continues to play for XXXX team. The number of years shouldn't be thought of as the definite number of years, but rather the longest possible number of years that can go without further negotiation.

A better analogy is the number of years is like a non-compete clause that some companies send. Carson will be paid by the Bengals so long as he plays for them, but he's under no obligation to do so. However he can't go play for any other team until the contract runs out, unless Mike Brown releases him from his contract.

Caveat Emperor
07-27-2011, 03:13 PM
Is it just me, or does the video of Brown's presser make him look like he's a black hood away from being Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars?

Redhook
07-27-2011, 09:42 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/clueless-boss-runs-bengals-like-mom-and-pop-store-while-players-keep-rushing-for-the-exits/2011/07/27/gIQAVnNLcI_story.html

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/michael_rosenberg/07/27/carson.palmer/index.html#ixzz1TKFMQyI0

2 excellent articles highlighting the ineptitude of Mike Brown. We've all heard it before, but it's nice to see people from other cities view Brown as an imbecile too and actually feel bad for our city because of this moron.

Brown needs to trade Palmer to improve the football team. It's as simple as that. Palmer doesn't wanna play here, he's not the same player he once was, and will never be again. Trade him while he has some value. Brown won't because he'd rather win off the field, at least in his mind.

Roy Tucker
08-01-2011, 12:10 PM
I still think that when Palmer said this (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/09/06/mmqb/3.html), I knew he wasn't long for playing for the Bengals.

Not that I'm calling him a coward or anything. I think he's a courageous player and plays with a lot of guts. But I think this thought has always been in the back of his mind (particularly playing behind the Bengals' OL).

And unless he's playing for a team that is fully and completely committed to putting the best team it can on the field, he won't play. The stakes are just too high.

Stray
08-01-2011, 12:24 PM
Neither side is right imo.

Carson had no problem with the Bengals losing ways, ownership, or head coach when he signed a contract that made him one of the highest paid players in the NFL. Now that he has a buttload of money in the bank he all of a sudden decides that he can't play here because of Bengals ways? Yeah okay. I hate how he's being made out to be a victim in this situation. He quit, and there's nothing commendable about that.

Mike is an idiot, but we all knew that already. He should have traded him to put the team first, but I'm not at all surprised that he didn't.

SeeinRed
08-01-2011, 01:20 PM
Neither side is right imo.

I could not agree more. I think a lot of people are so quick to defend Carson because they hate Mike Brown. Honestly, I don't like the stance either side has taken. This could have been worked out without bringing this into the public forum IMO. I have no doubt that Mike Brown would have granted Carson his wish had he approached him quietly and been willing to play out one more year to let the Bengals try and groom a new QB.

On the other hand, not trading a player unwilling to play for you is just silly. I think we can all understand why Brown feels the way he does about the situation, but you have to put your personal feelings aside and do what is best for your franchise.

Everytime I hear Mike Brown's statements, or something about Carson I imagine Mike and Carson sitting in the back seat.

Carson: "He started it!"
Mike: "Nuh-uh, HE started it!"
Carson: "Did not!"
Mike: "Did too!"
Carson: "Nuh-uh"
Mike: "Uh-huh"
Bengals Fans: "I don't care who started it, both of you stop it right now!"

Captain Hook
08-02-2011, 02:15 AM
Neither side is right imo.

Carson had no problem with the Bengals losing ways, ownership, or head coach when he signed a contract that made him one of the highest paid players in the NFL. Now that he has a buttload of money in the bank he all of a sudden decides that he can't play here because of Bengals ways? Yeah okay. I hate how he's being made out to be a victim in this situation. He quit, and there's nothing commendable about that.

Mike is an idiot, but we all knew that already. He should have traded him to put the team first, but I'm not at all surprised that he didn't.

The only thing I'd say to that is that these NFL owners sign players all the time knowing full well who they're signing and then a few year later are able to release them before the contract expires.Don't get me wrong, I agree mostly with what your saying.It just doesn't seem right that Mike Brown could just release Carson despite his contract but it doesn't work the other way around.

AtomicDumpling
08-02-2011, 04:52 AM
I don't respect Carson one bit for quitting on the team. He handled the situation very childishly. He didn't "retire" -- he just got mad and quit like a kid that didn't get his way on the playground. I don't want him back.

Mike Brown is a clueless fool and the worst owner in the history of the NFL, but in this instance he is doing the right thing by refusing to trade Carson Palmer. If Brown gave in to Carson's "trade me or I quit" tantrum it would just open the flood gates for all the other players to do the same. He wouldn't get more than a late-round draft pick for Carson anyway.

Chip R
08-02-2011, 08:59 AM
Mike Brown is a clueless fool and the worst owner in the history of the NFL, but in this instance he is doing the right thing by refusing to trade Carson Palmer. If Brown gave in to Carson's "trade me or I quit" tantrum it would just open the flood gates for all the other players to do the same. He wouldn't get more than a late-round draft pick for Carson anyway.

Of course if Brown ran a better organization, there wouldn't be players wanting to leave.

KronoRed
08-02-2011, 05:40 PM
Mike Brown is a clueless fool and the worst owner in the history of the NFL, but in this instance he is doing the right thing by refusing to trade Carson Palmer. If Brown gave in to Carson's "trade me or I quit" tantrum it would just open the flood gates for all the other players to do the same. He wouldn't get more than a late-round draft pick for Carson anyway.

Probably not, most NFL players spend their money as fast as they get it and have no leverage, Carson didn't and now can get away from the NFL Clippers.

A low round pick is better then nothing.