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View Full Version : Rolen placed on DL; Frazier recalled



cinreds21
07-22-2011, 07:16 PM
Infielder Todd Frazier was recalled from Triple-A Louisville.

Ron Madden
07-22-2011, 07:17 PM
Who is coming up?

reds44
07-22-2011, 07:17 PM
Frazier.

LvJ
07-22-2011, 07:19 PM
Bout time.

reds44
07-22-2011, 07:19 PM
We gon trade for Figgins watch.

Will M
07-22-2011, 07:19 PM
I'd like to see him get most of the starts at 3B rather than Cairo. Cairo is a decent enough bench player but Frazier has more upside as an everyday player. lets see what he can do.

on a related note Renteria is starting tonight over Cozart. this has been a really tough year to be a Reds fan.

reds44
07-22-2011, 07:20 PM
I'd like to see him get most of the starts at 3B rather than Cairo. Cairo is a decent enough bench player but Frazier has more upside as an everyday player. lets see what he can do.

on a related note Renteria is starting tonight over Cozart. this has been a really tough year to be a Reds fan.
No he's not.

cinreds21
07-22-2011, 07:21 PM
I hope as well that Frazier gets a lot of playing time. Reds are on MLBNetwork tonight too :)

RedRoser
07-22-2011, 07:23 PM
No he's not.

According to Yahoo Sports, he is.

mdccclxix
07-22-2011, 07:24 PM
Yes! Keep Rolen on the DL until he's ready. That means until next year if need be, although I wouldn't mind his glove during September.

reds44
07-22-2011, 07:24 PM
According to Yahoo Sports, he is.
According to everywhere else it's Cozart.

redsfaninbsg
07-22-2011, 07:32 PM
Due to Rolen playing the Pittsburgh finale this can't be retroactive can it? If so, that's a pretty poor way to handle the situation.

reds1869
07-22-2011, 07:34 PM
Glad to see this move. Hopefully Rolen can't heal up and Frazier will get some valuable experience with the big club.

cinreds21
07-22-2011, 07:38 PM
Due to Rolen playing the Pittsburgh finale this can't be retroactive can it? If so, that's a pretty poor way to handle the situation.

He's retroactive to yesterday.

REDSEER
07-22-2011, 07:38 PM
(Per Fay)

Arredondo also back, Horst optioned to Louisville

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-22-2011, 07:56 PM
Due to Rolen playing the Pittsburgh finale this can't be retroactive can it? If so, that's a pretty poor way to handle the situation.

Par for the course for 2011 with this organization.

redsfaninbsg
07-22-2011, 08:01 PM
He's retroactive to yesterday.

Right, that's what I figured. Had he not played this could have been retroactive back 3-4 games. Pretty poor, in my opinion.

Brutus
07-22-2011, 08:02 PM
Right, that's what I figured. Had he not played this could have been retroactive back 3-4 games. Pretty poor, in my opinion.

If 3 or 4 games is going to make or break this club, they were going to be in too bad of shape for Scott Rolen to help them anyhow.

redsfaninbsg
07-22-2011, 08:03 PM
If 3 or 4 games is going to make or break this club, they were going to be in too bad of shape for Scott Rolen to help them anyhow.

Considering he wasn't 100% before the break, played in the all star game, played in one game since, and is just now going on the DL it's more like 10 games.

Brutus
07-22-2011, 08:10 PM
Considering he wasn't 100% before the break, played in the all star game, played in one game since, and is just now going on the DL it's more like 10 games.

That doesn't mean it was obvious he should go on the DL. Perhaps they thought he was going to be fine, he thought he was going to be fine, so he played and then they realized that wasn't the case. Sometimes you can't have a perfect diagnosis.

I don't think it's as obvious as people would like it to be.

mdccclxix
07-22-2011, 08:11 PM
If 3 or 4 games is going to make or break this club, they were going to be in too bad of shape for Scott Rolen to help them anyhow.

It also tells me this isn't a 15 day 15 day DL stint, more like 20-30 day.

RedsManRick
07-22-2011, 08:28 PM
Is Fransisco still on the DL in AAA? Or has Frazier passed him up?

mth123
07-22-2011, 08:34 PM
Is Fransisco still on the DL in AAA? Or has Frazier passed him up?

DL Torn Meniscus

corkedbat
07-22-2011, 09:13 PM
It also tells me this isn't a 15 day 15 day DL stint, more like 20-30 day.

I'd rest Rolen for as long as it takes, then get him 3-5 rehab starts to get his eye back.

Big Klu
07-22-2011, 10:15 PM
What was the reason that Rolen was put on the DL? I haven't seen or heard any report.

RedsManRick
07-22-2011, 10:17 PM
What was the reason that Rolen was put on the DL? I haven't seen or heard any report.

I think he fell and broke a hip...

757690
07-22-2011, 10:21 PM
Right, that's what I figured. Had he not played this could have been retroactive back 3-4 games. Pretty poor, in my opinion.

Reds won that game. Rolen got a hit and played solid D. It wasn't a complete waste.

Big Klu
07-22-2011, 10:26 PM
I think he fell and broke a hip...

Thanks.

CrackerJack
07-23-2011, 01:31 AM
Thanks.

Believe it's the on-going shoulder soreness/issues.

Big Klu
07-23-2011, 03:36 AM
Believe it's the on-going shoulder soreness/issues.

Thank you. I figured the earlier post was a smart-ass answer, but I was just being polite.

919191
07-23-2011, 03:37 AM
Glad to see this move. Hopefully Rolen can't heal up and Frazier will get some valuable experience with the big club.

Why would you not want a healthy Rolen? He seemed to plat pretty well last year when healthy.

GAC
07-23-2011, 10:53 AM
He seemed to plat pretty well last year when healthy.

That's the key though. And last year his second half numbers fell off pretty good. This year, his line of .242/.279/.397/.676 is killing us from the clean-up spot. He's already missed 44 games due to various ailments, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him not crack 100 games played this year.

It's a problem the Reds currently don't have an answer for.

Will M
07-23-2011, 12:43 PM
Can Frazier be a backup SS until 9/1/11? if he can the Reds can free up a spot on the 25 man roster for another left handed bat. Zack can play unless we are up big or down big then give him a couple of innings off. Janish can come back 9/1/11 so as to not run Zack into the ground.

lets say we got a solid LH bat to platoon in left with Gomes. I'd rather have Lewis on the bench than Renteria.

Redsfan320
07-23-2011, 02:30 PM
Frazier in the lineup today, playing 3B and batting 7th.

320

Raisor
07-23-2011, 06:53 PM
This is the Rolen I figured the Reds were trading for back when they made that deal.

RedsManRick
07-23-2011, 08:08 PM
Let's say his shoulder doesn't get any better. Any chance Scott just hangs 'em up? Doesn't seem like the type to play for the paycheck.

reds44
07-23-2011, 08:10 PM
Let's say his shoulder doesn't get any better. Any chance Scott just hangs 'em up? Doesn't seem like the type to play for the paycheck.
If it doesn't get any better he'd have to, but it'll get better.

kaldaniels
07-23-2011, 11:37 PM
Let's say his shoulder doesn't get any better. Any chance Scott just hangs 'em up? Doesn't seem like the type to play for the paycheck.

The same thought has crossed my mind.

Ron Madden
07-23-2011, 11:44 PM
Let's say his shoulder doesn't get any better. Any chance Scott just hangs 'em up? Doesn't seem like the type to play for the paycheck.

I could be wrong but I think I read something not long after we traded for Rolen that his shoulder will never really get better without another surgery.

Matt700wlw
07-23-2011, 11:47 PM
I think Rolen would be the type of player to hang it up if he feels his on field performance is no longer helping his team.

If he would, I would LOVE to see him stay in the organization as a coach or an advisor of some sort, if he would want to. I think he brings a lot to the table in helping young players.....I. think that's been pretty evident.

marcshoe
07-24-2011, 02:45 AM
Agree completely. I'd love to see him hang on to a spot on Dusty's staff, even.

Right now, I think the season hangs on the young guys coming through--Frazier, Cozart, Heisey. And I think they can do it.

GAC
07-24-2011, 08:47 AM
Let's say his shoulder doesn't get any better. Any chance Scott just hangs 'em up? Doesn't seem like the type to play for the paycheck.

His shoulder (health) was the reason I was firmly against the extension. We'll be paying him 6.5M next year; but if you figure in the signing bonus, 5M over 3 years, it's 8M.

Love Rolen, but his days are done IMO. With Francisco out Frazier gets his shot. They better be finding an answer at 3B soon because I thought Rolen was a "stopgap".

corkedbat
07-24-2011, 02:58 PM
His shoulder (health) was the reason I was firmly against the extension. We'll be paying him 6.5M next year; but if you figure in the signing bonus, 5M over 3 years, it's 8M.

Love Rolen, but his days are done IMO. With Francisco out Frazier gets his shot. They better be finding an answer at 3B soon because I thought Rolen was a "stopgap".

I was very vocal about paying too much for Rolen in the infamous thread, but have refrained from rehashing it until now. It was never a question of not wanting Rolen, I've always loved him I just had issues with paying too much when we were bidding against ourselves. The only thing that has surprised me since the deal was his power resurgence the 1st half of last year. I am very glad the
Reds made the deal, I do believe that his addition changed attitudes and the affect of his D is the main reason I do not want to see the Reds consider Francisco as a permanent replacement at 3B.

In the end though, his situation now (and the tail off at the end of last season) was obvious and totally predictable, why we were bidding against ourselves to acquire him and why he should never have been extended.

757690
07-24-2011, 03:37 PM
If paying him that extension was what it took to get him in a Reds uniform, it was money well spent.

BTW, he's already provided around $35M in production for the Reds to this date, giving the Reds around $10M surplus value already.

mth123
07-24-2011, 08:31 PM
I was very vocal about paying too much for Rolen in the infamous thread, but have refrained from rehashing it until now. It was never a question of not wanting Rolen, I've always loved him I just had issues with paying too much when we were bidding against ourselves. The only thing that has surprised me since the deal was his power resurgence the 1st half of last year. I am very glad the
Reds made the deal, I do believe that his addition changed attitudes and the affect of his D is the main reason I do not want to see the Reds consider Francisco as a permanent replacement at 3B.

In the end though, his situation now (and the tail off at the end of last season) was obvious and totally predictable, why we were bidding against ourselves to acquire him and why he should never have been extended.

:thumbup:

REDREAD
07-25-2011, 01:46 AM
If paying him that extension was what it took to get him in a Reds uniform, it was money well spent.

BTW, he's already provided around $35M in production for the Reds to this date, giving the Reds around $10M surplus value already.

I agree completely. He was a huge reason we won the division title last year.

He's been ok compared to his peers at 3b this season (above average when defense is factored in). IMO, it's not really his fault the Reds were counting on him to be the cleanup hitter instead of getting one in LF.

We are really blessed that Cairo has fallen in our lap and played so well.

Will M
08-03-2011, 03:35 AM
small sample size but Frazier looks ok as a big league player. sometimes guys come up from AAA & look lost. that does not seem to be the case with Frazier. i'd really like to see him get ABs at 3B (especially with Rolen out) & LF.

Guacarock
08-03-2011, 04:18 AM
Frazier should get some more play and certainly some ops at 3B. Cairo has proven himself a true-blue trooper and rallied the team after the Mets swept us, four straight, with our defense proving as listless as our bats.

Still, the facts are these:

* Cairo's 38 and Frazier's 25. If one of them's destined to be a bigger part of our future, my bet is on Frazier.

* Cairo's age is showing since Rolen's latest DL stint. Cairo has delivered a couple of clutch RBIs, but is batting under .230 for the stretch -- a likely sign of fatigue.

* Neither is in Rolen's league wielding the glove, but Frazier is at least as adept and versatile as Miggy.

I can understand Dusty's intent in rewarding Cairo, not only for his seasonal steadiness off the bench but also his timely laying down of the gauntlet that worked to reverse a floundering team. Frazier isn't in a position to say what Cairo did, or produce the same results if he did issue the same challenge.

Still, the kid's a keeper and has earned a fair tryout, not just an occasional PH or spot start in LF, but some quality time at the hot corner. Like Cozart, he's been a breathe of fresh air. Small sample size, for sure, but bodes well for the future.

Ron Madden
08-03-2011, 04:38 AM
Frazier should get some more play and certainly some ops at 3B. Cairo has proven himself a true-blue trooper and rallied the team after the Mets swept us, four straight, with our defense proving as listless as our bats.

Still, the facts are these:

* Cairo's 38 and Frazier's 25. If one of them's destined to be a bigger part of our future, my bet is on Frazier.

* Cairo's age is showing since Rolen's latest DL stint. Cairo has delivered a couple of clutch RBIs, but is batting under .230 for the stretch -- a likely sign of fatigue.

* Neither is in Rolen's league wielding the glove, but Frazier is at least as adept and versatile as Miggy.

I can understand Dusty's intent in rewarding Cairo, not only for his seasonal steadiness off the bench but also his timely laying down of the gauntlet that worked to reverse a floundering team. Frazier isn't in a position to say what Cairo did, or produce the same results if he did issue the same challenge.

Still, the kid's a keeper and has earned a fair tryout, not just an occasional PH or spot start in LF, but some quality time at the hot corner. Like Cozart, he's been a breathe of fresh air. Small sample size, for sure, but bodes well for the future.

Frazier is supposed to start at 3B in the rubber game vs. Houston.

I respect everything Cairo has done here but he should not be playing everyday. I too would like to see Frazier get more playing time.

mth123
08-03-2011, 05:48 AM
Cairo has been really good, but he's best in small samples. He has talent which is why he's been able to stick around the big leagues for so long, but he's proven repeatedly over that long career that he isn't a guy who should play too much. One start per week and some PH or late game double switch moves is enough for him. Frazier should be playing most of the time, not only for the future but for 2011 as well.

Its probably just me thinking too much, but I wonder if we've seen the last of Rolen. His shoulder isn't going to improve, he's sidelined because of it, he's not very productive when he plays and on the radio yesterday they reported that he hadn't really been doing anything baseball wise yet and seemed really far away. They also reported that he wasn't real staright forward when asked about his condition. Just my own guess but he seems a guy who wants to be home with his family and he may have just reached a point where the pain of playing coupled with being on the road and his declining production may cause him to hang it up after the season. He seems like the kind of stand-up guy who would walk away form the contract rather than taking the cash for little production. He wouldn't be the first guy whose career ended early from a chronic condition.

cumberlandreds
08-03-2011, 08:44 AM
I read in last nights game notes that Rolen won't be coming off the DL when he's eligible. It wouldn't surprise me if he is done for the season. That shoulder just isn't getting better and is gradually getting worse. I think he will give it a go next spring. He would be leaving too much money on the table if he retired now.

Will M
08-03-2011, 09:50 AM
Cairo has been really good, but he's best in small samples. He has talent which is why he's been able to stick around the big leagues for so long, but he's proven repeatedly over that long career that he isn't a guy who should play too much. One start per week and some PH or late game double switch moves is enough for him. Frazier should be playing most of the time, not only for the future but for 2011 as well.

Its probably just me thinking too much, but I wonder if we've seen the last of Rolen. His shoulder isn't going to improve, he's sidelined because of it, he's not very productive when he plays and on the radio yesterday they reported that he hadn't really been doing anything baseball wise yet and seemed really far away. They also reported that he wasn't real staright forward when asked about his condition. Just my own guess but he seems a guy who wants to be home with his family and he may have just reached a point where the pain of playing coupled with being on the road and his declining production may cause him to hang it up after the season. He seems like the kind of stand-up guy who would walk away form the contract rather than taking the cash for little production. He wouldn't be the first guy whose career ended early from a chronic condition.


I read in last nights game notes that Rolen won't be coming off the DL when he's eligible. It wouldn't surprise me if he is done for the season. That shoulder just isn't getting better and is gradually getting worse. I think he will give it a go next spring. He would be leaving too much money on the table if he retired now.

I too wonder if Rolen is done.

I tend to agree with mth123 here. If he is toast I can see him hanging it up rather than playing 2012 for the money. He has made a ton of it playing baseball. It might not motivate him to play in 2012. it seems odd to most folks. however, once you have money other things can begin to motivate you more than making more money.

REDREAD
08-03-2011, 01:37 PM
Well, they were speculating on the radio that Rolen might have to have surgery on his shoulder.. of course, all speculation.. But this was based on Dusty's reaction when he was asked when Rolen is coming back..
It seems a pretty fair conclusion that Rolen was hurt this year, and tried to play through it and it hurt his performance. So he's given more rest, still no improvement, so Doc Hollywood will probably operate on him.. We've seen this pattern played out many times.. Not saying they handled Scott wrong, but I would not be suprised to see an announcement that it's more serious.

I think Doc Hollywood is coming back today to examine him (Maybe I got the date wrong, but it's soon).

mth123
08-03-2011, 08:22 PM
Well, they were speculating on the radio that Rolen might have to have surgery on his shoulder.. of course, all speculation.. But this was based on Dusty's reaction when he was asked when Rolen is coming back..
It seems a pretty fair conclusion that Rolen was hurt this year, and tried to play through it and it hurt his performance. So he's given more rest, still no improvement, so Doc Hollywood will probably operate on him.. We've seen this pattern played out many times.. Not saying they handled Scott wrong, but I would not be suprised to see an announcement that it's more serious.

I think Doc Hollywood is coming back today to examine him (Maybe I got the date wrong, but it's soon).

His shoulder has been injured since 2006. Its why it was foolish to count on him for the middle of the order. The first half of last year was a period where his shoulder felt relatively good and his power returned. He played too much and it wore down again. He didn't really have a lot of power 2007 - 2009 either. This will be Rolen's 4th surgery on the shoulder.