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View Full Version : Cozart leaves game; Hyperextended elbow; X-ray negative



Blitz Dorsey
07-23-2011, 06:32 PM
I can read lips pretty well and that's exactly what one of the trainers said when coming back to the dugout. I rewound it a couple times to make sure I was right.

Freakin' sucks. One of the few good things about this crappy season was seeing our shortstop of the future in action. He's never going to be a star, but he's going to be a damn solid MLB player. What a shame. Hopefully this is more of a "Pujols" fracture and not a "lost for the season" deal.

(Course, I don't think Cozart is on HGH, so he probably won't heal as quickly as Albert.)

mattfeet
07-23-2011, 06:34 PM
Thats my assumption as well. I sure hope we're wrong. Get well soon, Zack!

In other news, Paul Janish likely back to Cincy.

RANDY IN INDY
07-23-2011, 06:35 PM
Glad someone else is finding it amazing how quickly Albert "returned," at full strength.

RANDY IN INDY
07-23-2011, 06:35 PM
Thats my assumption as well. I sure hope we're wrong. Get well soon, Zack!

In other news, Paul Janish likely back to Cincy.

Broom-handle and all.

Blitz Dorsey
07-23-2011, 06:37 PM
Glad someone else is finding it amazing how quickly Albert "returned," at full strength.

Yeah, we're not the only ones to think it. It's just the baseball media is way too PC to say anything. They are too busy trying to convince everyone we're "past the PED era." Really? We're past the PED era? These are the same people that never wrote a single story about rampant steroid use in baseball, even though it was obvious to everyone.

membengal
07-23-2011, 06:39 PM
Buzzards luck for the Reds this year. Just unreal.

Blitz Dorsey
07-23-2011, 06:42 PM
Yeah, come to think of it, I'm not sure if I'm more upset about not seeing Cozart, or actually having to see Janish again.

OK, it's probably the former. But still. I thought I was officially done with Soft J. Figured he would play out the season in Louisville and then would be the backup SS for like the Padres next year. (Or actually the Nationals. They seem to really love their ex-Reds, no matter how bad, even now that Bowden is gone.)

reds44
07-23-2011, 06:44 PM
Honestly, do the Reds have another option to play SS other than Janish? Who is the AA shortstop? Are there any free agents still looking for a job? I'm dead serious. I can't stand to watch more of Edgar Janish.

And I really hope Cozart did break his arm. MUCH better than breaking a wrist. He'll be full go for spring training next year.

muddie
07-23-2011, 06:47 PM
There is nothing at AA right now. I hate that for Zack. He worked hard to get a shot and this...

Blitz Dorsey
07-23-2011, 06:51 PM
And I hate to say this, but that was an awful play by Votto that resulted in Cozart getting hurt. He never should have thrown to second. Even an accurate throw wouldn't have gotten McLouth. But Joey not only made a mental error in throwing to second, he made a physical error in short-hopping the throw to the first-base side, which put Cozart in harm's way.

What a crappy season. Even our MVP is negatively involved when the hotshot rookie SS is lost for the season with an injury.

fearofpopvol1
07-23-2011, 06:55 PM
Janish and Renteria will be your men!

forfreelin04
07-23-2011, 07:00 PM
And I hate to say this, but that was an awful play by Votto that resulted in Cozart getting hurt. He never should have thrown to second. Even an accurate throw wouldn't have gotten McLouth. But Joey not only made a mental error in throwing to second, he made a physical error in short-hopping the throw to the first-base side, which put Cozart in harm's way.

What a crappy season. Even our MVP is negatively involved when the hotshot rookie SS is lost for the season with an injury.

Votto is an amazing talent, but he does these things on a regular basis. His awful swings at the plate are other examples of thinking while performing an action. Sometimes he is simply not sure of himself at all.

LvJ
07-23-2011, 07:09 PM
:( Get well soon! It's your job when you get back.

reds44
07-23-2011, 07:15 PM
He did not break his arm. Hyperextended elbow. Nowhere near as bad as we all thought.

mattfeet
07-23-2011, 07:16 PM
GOOD NEWS!!!!!

apjoekay Joe Kay
X-rays on left elbow of #Reds SS Zack Cozart are negative. He has hyperextended elbow.


YAY!

Ron Madden
07-23-2011, 07:17 PM
He did not break his arm. Hyperextended elbow. Nowhere near as bad as we all thought.

That is the best news I've heard today. :thumbup:

Tom Servo
07-23-2011, 07:17 PM
http://soshable.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Everything_went_better_than_expected.png

CTA513
07-23-2011, 07:17 PM
He did not break his arm. Hyperextended elbow. Nowhere near as bad as we all thought.

Cozarts PEDs must have kicked in

mattfeet
07-23-2011, 07:17 PM
http://soshable.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Everything_went_better_than_expected.png

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Brutus
07-23-2011, 07:20 PM
Cozarts PEDs must have kicked in

Rumor has it he's already doing pushups and lifting weights in the clubhouse.

Joseph
07-23-2011, 07:23 PM
Rumor has it he's already doing pushups and lifting weights in the clubhouse.

If this were football he'd be back in the game.

Or wait....

Zack Cozart doesn't go on the 15 day DL, the 15 day DL goes on Zack Cozart.

Except that doesnt make a lot of sense unless you are named Yackov.

Always Red
07-23-2011, 07:24 PM
Maybe someone should change the name of the thread, eh?

mattfeet
07-23-2011, 07:29 PM
Maybe someone should change the name of the thread, eh?

:beerme:

Tony Cloninger
07-23-2011, 07:31 PM
Someone needs to take better lip reading classes. :D

Superdude
07-23-2011, 07:31 PM
What's a hyperextended elbow? I guess that's better than a broken wrist, but is he still out for a week or so?

Redhook
07-23-2011, 07:32 PM
I've never hyper-extended anything outside of reaching for that beer way back in the fridge. How long will he be out? 15 day dl?

Blitz Dorsey
07-23-2011, 07:33 PM
WHeeeewww. I apologize for the original post. I know I saw one of the Reds' trainers say "It's broke." Glad to know that's not accurate!

mattfeet
07-23-2011, 07:37 PM
No reason to apologize. I thought I saw the same thing. :)

-Matt

thatcoolguy_22
07-23-2011, 07:46 PM
I'm just glad to know I have a few fellow redditor's on the site.

TL/DR: go reds

BoydsOfSummer
07-23-2011, 08:43 PM
I hyper-extended my knee after jumping in a creek from a tree. I limped around on that thing for what seemed like forever, very, very sore for quite awhile. It's not his throwing arm or his legs, so that's a blessing in a way.Just hope there is no structural damage after a more thorough exam. If so, we should see him in a couple weeks (fingers crossed).

Larkin Fan
07-23-2011, 09:14 PM
What's a hyperextended elbow? I guess that's better than a broken wrist, but is he still out for a week or so?

All hyperextension means is that his elbow was forced past it's normal range of motion. In other words, it means it was bent backwards.

How much time he will miss depends on the severity of the hyperextension. When a hyperextension happens, a number of things can happen to the structures that stabilize the elbow joint, like a torn ligament, for instance. They'll need an MRI to evaluate that because an x-ray only allows them to look for structural problems in bone, not soft tissue.

Redsfan320
07-23-2011, 09:37 PM
Heard Doc Thompson say there was no structural damage, it was just a pain tolerance thing, however if he were GM, he would DL him, and he believes the Reds will do the same.

320

I(heart)Freel
07-23-2011, 09:43 PM
Just met Zack Friday at the Aquarium. Super nice guy. Really pulling for him to get back soon.

Big Klu
07-23-2011, 10:46 PM
Heard Doc Thompson say there was no structural damage, it was just a pain tolerance thing, however if he were GM, he would DL him, and he believes the Reds will do the same.

320

Cozart will have access to state-of-the-art training facilities that 99.9% of us don't have, but I figure it will still be 1-2 weeks before it feels right. I don't think the Reds can afford to play a man short for that long, so I would put him on the DL, too. I figure that Cozart will be put on the DL, and Janish will be brought back up.

If the Reds put Cozart on the DL, he would be eligible to be activated on the first day of the next homestand, August 8 vs. the Rockies.

dfs
07-23-2011, 10:51 PM
Honestly, do the Reds have another option to play SS other than Janish? Who is the AA shortstop? Are there any free agents still looking for a job? I'm dead serious. I can't stand to watch more of Edgar Janish.

It's not my team, but if it where, I would put Todd Frazier out there and let him swim.

No, he's not going to make all the plays, but he'll make enough of them. I REALLY don't want to see any more of Edgar or Janish.

hebroncougar
07-24-2011, 12:38 AM
Can't we say he had a concussion, and 7 day DL him?

PuffyPig
07-24-2011, 04:15 AM
It's not my team, but if it where, I would put Todd Frazier out there and let him swim.

No, he's not going to make all the plays, but he'll make enough of them. I REALLY don't want to see any more of Edgar or Janish.

Based on what?

They don't let him play SS in the minors.

What's enough?

reds44
07-24-2011, 04:18 AM
Renteria should get the majority of the ABs if Cozart hits the DL. I wouldn't be surprised if they give Cozart's elbow a few days before they make a decision though. I hate that as much as anyone, but there's nowhere else to turn right now.

fearofpopvol1
07-24-2011, 05:49 AM
It's not my team, but if it where, I would put Todd Frazier out there and let him swim.

No, he's not going to make all the plays, but he'll make enough of them. I REALLY don't want to see any more of Edgar or Janish.

Who's going to play 3B?

signalhome
07-24-2011, 10:28 AM
I'm just glad to know I have a few fellow redditor's on the site.

TL/DR: go reds

Yeah, I was a bit surprised when I saw my first Reddit reference on here. I probably shouldn't have been.

kaldaniels
07-24-2011, 10:42 AM
If Janish is playing at a below-replacement player level, in theory would it be best to go with a 24 man roster and let say, Leake be a pinch hitter off the bench. I gotta think the answer is that it is best to call Janish up, but it probably is a close call. Of course I'd rather get someone, anyone else up here...but its gonna be Janish.

RANDY IN INDY
07-24-2011, 10:44 AM
If Janish plays for any length of time, you better be addressing the LF problem with a big bat that can produce.

mth123
07-24-2011, 11:37 AM
If Janish plays for any length of time, you better be addressing the LF problem with a big bat that can produce.

Agree. That's the problem here. The pitching staff just doesn't have the stuff to work around a below average defender at SS on anything more than spot basis. Day in, day out, they need somebody in there who can make the plays and right now Janish is the only guy in sight who is capable. (Renteria's defense would cause too much cumulative damage if he was in there every day IMO). The offense is very iffy most of the time (when a RH pitcher is on the mound for the opposition) and while Cozart isn't really an offensive force, he holds his own as opposed to Janish being the major drag that he is. A deal for somebody who could hit against RHP was almost mandatory anyway, but if Cozat is going to be out for a while, it might sway Walt into pulling the trigger on something he might be wavering on. Maybe something as simple as calling up Alonso to platoon in LF with Gomes.

mbgrayson
07-24-2011, 12:38 PM
My guess is that they will have to call Janish up. He has been heating up a little at the plate:


Paul Janish stats (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/janispa01.shtml):
Last 10 games: .303/.400/.455 for an OPS of .855, and 1 HR.

Last seven games:10 for 21 with 3 walks and a HR.

Maybe, just maybe, Paul was able to make a few adjustments. I was interested to see that he hadn't had a minor league AB since 2008. It is worth noting that he only had 200 AB last year, and 256 in 2009. That is total ABs. This year, before getting sent down, he had 229 ABs with the Reds and has had 43 in AAA. I just think he needs to keep grinding it out. Needs to get used to having 400-500 ABs in a season again (He hasn't had 400+ ABs in a season since 2007).

I actually believe that Janish has value, mostly on defense, but I think that if he can again hit .260/.338/.385 for an OPS of .723, his 2010 Reds numbers, he would be worth keeping around.

Blitz Dorsey
07-24-2011, 01:26 PM
My guess is that they will have to call Janish up. He has been heating up a little at the plate:


Paul Janish stats (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/janispa01.shtml):
Last 10 games: .303/.400/.455 for an OPS of .855, and 1 HR.

Last seven games:10 for 21 with 3 walks and a HR.

Maybe, just maybe, Paul was able to make a few adjustments. I was interested to see that he hadn't had a minor league AB since 2008. It is worth noting that he only had 200 AB last year, and 256 in 2009. That is total ABs. This year, before getting sent down, he had 229 ABs with the Reds and has had 43 in AAA. I just think he needs to keep grinding it out. Needs to get used to having 400-500 ABs in a season again (He hasn't had 400+ ABs in a season since 2007).

I actually believe that Janish has value, mostly on defense, but I think that if he can again hit .260/.338/.385 for an OPS of .723, his 2010 Reds numbers, he would be worth keeping around.

I agree that if Janish could OPS .700+ he would be of value as a backup SS (like he was in 2010). However, I just don't have confidence that he could OPS .700+ yearly at the MLB level. In addition to his lack of power, he never takes a walk. If you're going to be a punch-and-judy hitter like Paul is, you better take some walks. Not that pitchers are going to look to pitch around you, but you still need to take some walks. Janish has poor pitch-recognition, a slow bat and no power. He's never going to be anything more than a backup SS at the MLB level. The question is how well will he do offensively, and it's my opinion that he will always be so bad offensively that it will never make up for his defense. And while his D is very good, he's by no means the best defensive SS in MLB or anything. Not that errors are the best metric to judge defensive players, but it's safe to say Paul makes way too many errors for a "great" defensive SS.

mbgrayson
07-24-2011, 01:49 PM
I agree that if Janish could OPS .700+ he would be of value as a backup SS (like he was in 2010). However, I just don't have confidence that he could OPS .700+ yearly at the MLB level. In addition to his lack of power, he never takes a walk. If you're going to be a punch-and-judy hitter like Paul is, you better take some walks. Not that pitchers are going to look to pitch around you, but you still need to take some walks. Janish has poor pitch-recognition, a slow bat and no power. He's never going to be anything more than a backup SS at the MLB level. The question is how well will he do offensively, and it's my opinion that he will always be so bad offensively that it will never make up for his defense. And while his D is very good, he's by no means the best defensive SS in MLB or anything. Not that errors are the best metric to judge defensive players, but it's safe to say Paul makes way too many errors for a "great" defensive SS.

Plate patience is one of the biggest drop-offs in Janish's game this year. He has only taken 9 walks in 246 plate appearances this year. Last year, he had 22 walks in 228 appearances, and in 2009 he had 26 walks in 292 appearances.

He is hacking away too much, since as the #8 hitter, he should be getting walked more so that the opposing team can get to the pitcher's spot. Of course as badly as he is hitting, nobody is nothering to pitch around him this year. I would suspect that the walks will come when (and if) the hitting picks up a bit.

Ron Madden
07-24-2011, 03:51 PM
The Reds have placed Zack Cozart on the 15 day DL and recalled SS Paul Janish from AAA Louisville.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-24-2011, 03:57 PM
The Reds have placed Zack Cozart on the 15 day DL and recalled SS Paul Janish from AAA Louisville.

This game isn't fair sometimes.

OldXOhio
07-24-2011, 04:19 PM
This game isn't fair sometimes.

Nope. Nor does it fail to remind you to expect the unexpected (as evidenced by next statement)...

I hope ER gets the lion share of the playing time while Zach's out.

Ron Madden
07-24-2011, 06:56 PM
"Sprained elbow is all I know". Cozart said there was no other damage found when an MRI done Saturday.

here's the story.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2011/07/24/cozart-out-at-least-2-weeks-more-notes/