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View Full Version : Paul Daugherty - Deadline trade won't help underachieving Reds



FireDusty
07-23-2011, 07:02 PM
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110723/COL03/307240009/Doc-Trade-won-t-help-helpless-Reds?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Reds

Seems I'm not alone in my sentiments.

This yr is lost. Cut the dead weight and get the kids up here so we can break camp next year with guys that know how to get to the stadium.

Vottomatic
07-23-2011, 08:53 PM
While I'd like to have some of those players, I'm moving more and more toward not giving up the farm system for them.

On the other hand, if the Reds are going to stick with Votto, Phillips, Bruce, Stubbs, and Cozart.........any guy in triple A that plays those positions is expendable. Future third baseman? Yes, keep one or two (Frazier, Francisco). Future left fielder like Sappelt? Yes, keep them. Future catcher (Mesoraco)? Keep him too. But Alonso, Valaika, and one or two of the young starting pitchers are expendable if the Reds trade for an ace.

Triple A is strong and has fed our major league roster with Bailey, Cueto, Votto, Stubbs, Bruce, Cozart, Heisey, Hanigan, Leake (draft), Wood, Ondrusek, Chapman (international draft), and some I can't think of right now. Double A doesn't have much except for maybe Neftali Soto. The next wave of good players is down at Dayton and below. And that's about the time these current players all start to get expensive and the roster needs to reload.

Redsnake
07-23-2011, 09:59 PM
While I agree with most that is said. I still would like to see the Reds acquire a real #1 pitcher. If that means striking now while teams are out of the race and before the beginning of the next year when teams are optimistic that this will be the year. Of course the Reds will have to get a pitcher under contract for more than one year....enter Jiminez or Shields. :)

BAKER12
07-23-2011, 10:03 PM
2009 was not going well, Rolen was acquired, the Reds had a sizzling September and you know what happened last year.

nux fan
07-23-2011, 10:37 PM
dream on, this team has not won two games in a row for 45 days, Baker is challenged to remember the number of outs and the count

Roush's socks
07-23-2011, 10:39 PM
The Reds are still very much in the race. 3-4 games back with 60 games left is totally within reach. The Reds have a stretch of easy games starting Aug 1st. If they can run off a 7-8 game win streak at some point they will be within 2-3 games going into the last few weeks. I think the Reds and Cards will emerge over Milwaukee and the Pirates.

Fans who are blaming Dusty or Walt are looking in the wrong direction. I think it is so funny that all the SAME people on this board and the ORG who all WANTED JANISH to be the starter over Cabrera last year, and now these same posters are blaming Dusty because Janish sucked!!!!!! Meanwhile Cabrera is with the Indians and they are having a great season. Dusty gave Janish until the Allstar break to prove he could do it. To give him any less would have been unfair and set the precedent that young players have a short leash. How is the fact that Janish failed Dusty's fault?

The Reds have lost a ton of one run games and close games this season. They are leading the division in run differential but they have a losing record. That is either ----
1. Bad Luck
2. Lack of "clutch-ness" or ability to win close games or get the big hit when needed.

I STILL BELIEVE they will win the division or come in a close 2nd to St. Louis.

tobttr
07-23-2011, 10:47 PM
2009 was not going well, Rolen was acquired, the Reds had a sizzling September and you know what happened last year.

An excellent point. Maybe a deadline deal won't win the division this year, but it might set the stage for a productive 2012.

bleedsred
07-23-2011, 11:06 PM
Call me crazy I guess, but the Reds can still get back in this thing....MILW, STL, and PiTT play eachother multiple times during this second half as well as Cincy having atleast 3 games with each of them....I say go out and land a front line starter who will be around more than 1 year and get a bat for the middle of the lineup...the division and more for the taking. There is no national league team that can't be shut down with good pitching.......

Roush's socks
07-23-2011, 11:17 PM
The Reds starting rotation is really coming around. With Cueto, Bailey, Leake and Willis all pitching well, and Arroyo hopefully getting fully recovered at some point, the Reds are looking very solid. They are totally in the race and only a real negative nancy would see it otherwise.

BAKER12
07-23-2011, 11:58 PM
What is the deal with Wood?
I honestly thought he would be the # 2 guy this year
Confused by his downturn and equally surprised (thus far) from Willis
Leake is getting better all the time and Cueto is elite
Homer is a solid # 2 or 3
Is Volquez a lost cause?
Will never give up on this team or season, just perplexed by the way the staff I envisioned panned out

nux fan
07-24-2011, 12:05 AM
i have given up on the manager who cannot analyze situations, trends, numbers or proclivities, he has led the reds to 15 one game winning streaks since Jun 14th

LeDoux
07-24-2011, 12:08 AM
I really don't think a team like Cincy can afford to throw in the towel being only 4-5 games back in July. I understand not wanting to sell the entire farm, but surely help is available for a lower cost than that. If the Reds want to take a risk on calling up their prospects, cool. If they want to risk trading them for help, cool. But the status quo isn't working. Push one of the buttons please.

R_Webb18
07-24-2011, 12:13 AM
I really don't think a team like Cincy can afford to throw in the towel being only 4-5 games back in July. I understand not wanting to sell the entire farm, but surely help is available for a lower cost than that. If the Reds want to take a risk on calling up their prospects, cool. If they want to risk trading them for help, cool. But the status quo isn't working. Push one of the buttons please.

im sure there looking at trades but fact is no real trades have happened yet besides 1. im guessin around tuesday it will heat up big time.

ruREaDy2
07-24-2011, 12:14 AM
Acquire James Shields. That is all. :D

kfm
07-24-2011, 12:37 AM
Just have a hard time taking Doc seriously since he wanted to trade Joey Votto and Johnny Cueto for Joe Blanton when he was with the A's. I get not trading for a rental, depending on the cost but trading for a James Shields or Jiminez makes a lot of sense depending who his part of the deal. I would like to see them hold onto Sappelt and Mesoraco. Other than that, I am ok with them dealing just about anyone else in the organization. You either play prospects or you trade them for what you need, who cares if our triple a team wins a bunch of games with guys who end up being 25 to 28 years old becasue we have no room for them. We have a bunch of guys who have little or no chance to play for the reds in the forseeable future, turn them into value for this team and give it a chance to win, and win big.

Stray
07-24-2011, 01:24 AM
I think we gotta DL Bronson against his will (because I assume he doesn't want it to happen). If no trade involving a starter happens, call up Wood to fill the void.

I really don't think we're far off, but we definitely have holes. If I were to fill one it would be a bat.

Krawhitham
07-24-2011, 01:28 AM
You make a move for a bat 1st and then try to get a starter

The Reds are 4 back with three 3 ahead of them BUT

The Pirates will fade away (show signs of that now)
The Brew Crew and Cards play each other 12 more times this season

Krawhitham
07-24-2011, 01:34 AM
I think we gotta DL Bronson against his will (because I assume he doesn't want it to happen).

OR just pitch him 6 innings, he has a 12.27 ERA after 6 innings

Stray
07-24-2011, 01:42 AM
OR just pitch him 6 innings, he has a 12.27 ERA after 6 innings

Guys were hitting rockets all over the field today, we were just catching them. It seems like that is the norm for Bronson anymore, he doesn't have the ability to get hitters out with his pitches.

I think the injuries/mono got to him and he's never fully recovered. He's a lot better than he's pitched, and I don't think it does us a ton of good to keep running him out there. It's obvious he's playing with fire on the mound.

BAKER12
07-24-2011, 02:22 AM
i have given up on the manager who cannot analyze situations, trends, numbers or proclivities, he has led the reds to 15 one game winning streaks since Jun 14th

If you have given up, then don't watch and stop contributing to this Reds Zone board. The season is not over, unless the schedule has been shortened to 101 games.

nux fan
07-24-2011, 02:33 AM
what is your explanation for a "manager" who cant keep track of the complex arithmetic called the count and calls for a squeeze with a 2-2 count

BluegrassRedleg
07-24-2011, 11:19 PM
Daugherty's column is a classic example of sportswriters who don't write what they really believe (or what is logical) rather something that will elicit a reaction.

He's better than this.