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757690
07-24-2011, 01:03 AM
The Cardinals are desperate for starting pitching, and have few prospects to trade.

Would you trade Bronson Arroyo for Shelby Miller?

It makes perfect sense for both teams if they weren't battling it out right now for the division. It would make it harder for the Reds to win this year, but could pay great dividends for years.

Tom Servo
07-24-2011, 01:09 AM
yes.

Screwball
07-24-2011, 01:09 AM
I can't tell if this is a joke or not.

crazybob60
07-24-2011, 01:21 AM
That would be a steal of a deal for us, but even if we weren't in the same division battling for the title, I highly doubt that the Cards would deal Miller. It would take a lot. Especially just for Bronson. To get Miller, I would assume it would take a whole lot of our prospects as well.

marcshoe
07-24-2011, 01:27 AM
Yeah, the Reds would have to give up a wee bit more than Bronson.

btw, I'm one of the biggest Arroyo fans on this board, but he needs to be moved out of the rotation. I'd put him on the DL and give him the rest he needs to fully recover from his mono, whether he wants it or not. Gotta put the team first.

And I can't imagine he has much value at the moment.

The Operator
07-24-2011, 01:28 AM
I can't tell if this is a joke or not.It would be a great trade for The Reds.

I've seen Shelby Miller pitch in Dayton, his stuff is incredible. I don't think The Cards would ever do it.

757690
07-24-2011, 01:28 AM
The Cardinals need a other veteran pitcher, especially an innings eater.

They are in a win now mentality, as they face losing Pujols after this season.

I think they might trade Miller by the deadline, as he's one of the only prospects they have that would bring anything. It might take throwing in a reliever, but I thnk they would be tempted.

marcshoe
07-24-2011, 01:29 AM
I'd love to see the Cardinals trade Miller, preferably out of the league. He stands a good chance of being a monster.

IslandRed
07-24-2011, 01:31 AM
The Cardinals are desperate for starting pitching, and have few prospects to trade.

Would you trade Bronson Arroyo for Shelby Miller?

It makes perfect sense for both teams if they weren't battling it out right now for the division. It would make it harder for the Reds to win this year, but could pay great dividends for years.

It doesn't make perfect sense for the Cardinals. Put yourself in their shoes. Even if you're willing to pursue the thought of trading Miller for a starter who can help right now -- and I'd think the fact their depth is so thin would be an argument against, not for, trading what blue chips they have -- Miller is one of the top 10-15 prospects in all of baseball. Bronson Arroyo is the best you can do?

camisadelgolf
07-24-2011, 01:50 AM
I mean no offense, but this might be the worst trade proposal I've ever seen. And I'm trying not to use hyperbole.

1.) Like you said, teams don't like to trade within the division.
2.) Shelby Miller is one of the top prospects in all of baseball. It would take a lot more than Arroyo to get Miller, even if you paid the $27M left on his contract.
3.) Speaking of money, because of his contract, Bronson Arroyo would need to be paid ~$13M upfront in order to be traded. That's just not going to happen.
4.) The Cardinals could get someone much better for Miller.
5.) Bronson Arroyo has nearly negative value right now. The guy is 34 years old and has given up the most earned runs and home runs in the league. On top of that, he makes a lot of money and past his prime.

757690
07-24-2011, 02:15 AM
I mean no offense, but this might be the worst trade proposal I've ever seen. And I'm trying not to use hyperbole.

1.) Like you said, teams don't like to trade within the division.
2.) Shelby Miller is one of the top prospects in all of baseball. It would take a lot more than Arroyo to get Miller, even if you paid the $27M left on his contract.
3.) Speaking of money, because of his contract, Bronson Arroyo would need to be paid ~$13M upfront in order to be traded. That's just not going to happen.
4.) The Cardinals could get someone much better for Miller.
5.) Bronson Arroyo has nearly negative value right now. The guy is 34 years old and has given up the most earned runs and home runs in the league. On top of that, he makes a lot of money and past his prime.

First, it wasn't a trade proposal, as I stated in the title, that it never would happen. It's a "what if" idea meant to spark discussion.

The reason I suggested it, is because it is between two divisional rivals, and like you said, those trades never happen. It makes it interesting to think about why.

If the Reds did this, they would be pretty much forfeiting the season to the Cardinals, and that is exactly why the Cardinals should be interested. They get rid of competitor for this season, and improve their chances overall to win the division and go deeper into the playoffs.

It's been reported that if they want to improve their team this season, the Cardinals will have to trade off of their major league roster again. This is the only way they avoid that.

Remember that while Miller is a top prospect, top pitching prospects don't have a perfect record when it comes to making it in the bigs. I'd say odds are around 50-50 that Miller becomes a solid major league pitcher. And Bronson has pitched well in 14 of his 20 starts, he does not have negative value. If Dusty wasn't a manager who likes to leave his starters in too long, Bronson would have much better stats.

I do agree that money would be a big factor, but again, it's really just a hypothetical.

Anyway, forget about that trade proposal. Pick other players. What I want to know is...

Would you forfeit this season and help the Cardinals make the playoffs if it meant getting Shelby Miller?

marcshoe
07-24-2011, 02:18 AM
I'm not sure Bronson would be forfeiting the season right now (although your points about Dusty leaving him in too long are well taken--he also sends him out there when he souldn't.) If you substituted Brandon Phillips, that might be another story. Maybe trading Phillips and Bailey for Miller. I wouldn't do it personally, but it would be a tough call.

camisadelgolf
07-24-2011, 02:41 AM
First, it wasn't a trade proposal, as I stated in the title, that it never would happen. It's a "what if" idea meant to spark discussion.

The reason I suggested it, is because it is between two divisional rivals, and like you said, those trades never happen. It makes it interesting to think about why.

If the Reds did this, they would be pretty much forfeiting the season to the Cardinals, and that is exactly why the Cardinals should be interested. They get rid of competitor for this season, and improve their chances overall to win the division and go deeper into the playoffs.

It's been reported that if they want to improve their team this season, the Cardinals will have to trade off of their major league roster again. This is the only way they avoid that.

Remember that while Miller is a top prospect, top pitching prospects don't have a perfect record when it comes to making it in the bigs. I'd say odds are around 50-50 that Miller becomes a solid major league pitcher. And Bronson has pitched well in 14 of his 20 starts, he does not have negative value. If Dusty wasn't a manager who likes to leave his starters in too long, Bronson would have much better stats.

I do agree that money would be a big factor, but again, it's really just a hypothetical.

Anyway, forget about that trade proposal. Pick other players. What I want to know is...

Would you forfeit this season and help the Cardinals make the playoffs if it meant getting Shelby Miller?
Sorry about that. It looked like a proposal when I read it. Now I see where you were going with it. To answer the question, yes, I would do it. I would trade an expensive, aging middle/back-of-the-rotation arm for one of the top prospects in baseball and never look back.

corkedbat
07-24-2011, 03:31 AM
I really like Bronson. I don't believe he's washed up and think a DL stint would do him wonders. Having said that though. if we could land Jiminez and'or Shields, I'd jump at a chance to get out from under his contract. He's fall behind Bailey and Leake and right there with Wood in my pecking order (behind Chapman too if they move him to the rotation next year).

I believe his contract makes him very hard to deal, but I'd certainly do it if I could.