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View Full Version : Bill Conlin honered @ HOF: calls for Rose induction



Ron Madden
07-24-2011, 12:08 PM
Just saw Bill Conlin's acceptance speech for the Spink Award on MLB Network, very entertaining speech IMO.

Here's a link to Conlin's speech, on page 2 he winds up his speech calling for Bud Selig to lift the ban on Pete Rose to make him eligible for the Hall Of Fame.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/126066734.html?page=1&c=y

mbgrayson
07-24-2011, 12:17 PM
His quote on Rose:



One last thing: please get Pete Rose off Main Street and into the Hall. Keep the ban for the compulsive gambler we met in the Dowd Report. But enshrine the guy who played with his hair on fire, the overachiever who lashed those 4,256 hits. Commissioner Selig, tear down that Ban!


I agree.

RedRoser
07-24-2011, 12:47 PM
:beerme:

757690
07-24-2011, 12:49 PM
At least let them vote on the matter. What are they afraid of?

15fan
07-24-2011, 02:10 PM
Pete broke the rules. And not just any rules, but the rules that were put in place after the 1919 World Series to maintain the integrity, legitimacy & sanctity of the game.

Pete knew the rules. He walked by them every single day he went to work as a player & manager.

When the authorities called him on it, he stonewalled them, disagreed, and lived a life of lies & denial for a quarter century. There was zero remorse. Zero owning up to his transgressions. The blame was always somewhere else other than Peter Edward Rose.

If Pete wants into Cooperstown, he needs to buy a ticket just like the rest of us no matter how many times he sprinted to first on a walk or cranked out 200 hit / 100 run seasons.

chicoruiz
07-24-2011, 02:29 PM
Put him in, leave him out... whatever. I think an increasing number of us just don't care that much any more.

757690
07-24-2011, 02:30 PM
Pete broke the rules. And not just any rules, but the rules that were put in place after the 1919 World Series to maintain the integrity, legitimacy & sanctity of the game.

Pete knew the rules. He walked by them every single day he went to work as a player & manager.

When the authorities called him on it, he stonewalled them, disagreed, and lived a life of lies & denial for a quarter century. There was zero remorse. Zero owning up to his transgressions. The blame was always somewhere else other than Peter Edward Rose.

If Pete wants into Cooperstown, he needs to buy a ticket just like the rest of us no matter how many times he sprinted to first on a walk or cranked out 200 hit / 100 run seasons.

Don't disagree with the facts. But why deny him a vote? Let the Hall voters decide.

And there are worse offenders of the gambling rule in the Hall of Fame. Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker were caught throwing games for money. They were forced to retire early, but still got a chance to be voted on by the Hall.

GADawg
07-24-2011, 02:33 PM
i guess Conlin gets your point....just like alot of us he's just calling for them to seperate the player from the manager

westofyou
07-24-2011, 02:36 PM
Pete broke the rules. And not just any rules, but the rules that were put in place after the 1919 World Series to maintain the integrity, legitimacy & sanctity of the game.

Pete knew the rules. He walked by them every single day he went to work as a player & manager.

When the authorities called him on it, he stonewalled them, disagreed, and lived a life of lies & denial for a quarter century. There was zero remorse. Zero owning up to his transgressions. The blame was always somewhere else other than Peter Edward Rose.

If Pete wants into Cooperstown, he needs to buy a ticket just like the rest of us no matter how many times he sprinted to first on a walk or cranked out 200 hit / 100 run seasons.
For sale $499

http://www.repmanblog.com/repman/images/baseball.jpg


Pete Rose, the gift that keeps on giving.

Hagiographic presumptions aside, 15fan is dead on.

First Pete reference in awhile, it surely is HOF season. Joe P. has an article on some of the fresher issues (http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2011/07/future-of-hall-of-fame.html) facing the little museum in New York.

westofyou
07-24-2011, 02:38 PM
i guess Conlin gets your point....just like alot of us he's just calling for them to seperate the player from the manager

The player was under scrutiny for his relationships for 15 years, he was 1st contacted by the league security lead in the early 70's.

He didn't just wake up one day with a gambling habit.

chicoruiz
07-24-2011, 02:42 PM
Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker were caught throwing games for money.

Speaker was accused... beyond the accusation there was virtually no evidence against him. And not much against Cobb, other than that he was a nasty guy all around.

George Anderson
07-24-2011, 02:46 PM
Put him in, leave him out... whatever. I think an increasing number of us just don't care that much any more.

My thoughts exactly.

AtomicDumpling
07-24-2011, 03:03 PM
Pete broke the rules. And not just any rules, but the rules that were put in place after the 1919 World Series to maintain the integrity, legitimacy & sanctity of the game.

Pete knew the rules. He walked by them every single day he went to work as a player & manager.

When the authorities called him on it, he stonewalled them, disagreed, and lived a life of lies & denial for a quarter century. There was zero remorse. Zero owning up to his transgressions. The blame was always somewhere else other than Peter Edward Rose.

If Pete wants into Cooperstown, he needs to buy a ticket just like the rest of us no matter how many times he sprinted to first on a walk or cranked out 200 hit / 100 run seasons.

That is all true. No doubt about it. However it really misses the point. Pete Rose is one of the most famous players ever. It is the Hall of Fame, right? Pete Rose was a great baseball player and a compulsive gambler. He was a flawed hero. People can relate to that. The HOF is missing a great opportunity to educate the public. They are distorting baseball history by ignoring a key part of it.

A baseball museum that leaves out a gambling scandal is like an American History museum that leaves out slavery. Unfortunately it happened, so it has to be there so people can understand it and learn from it. Burying their head in the sand and ignoring it just makes them look foolish.

Red in Chicago
07-24-2011, 03:15 PM
"I know it was you, Pete (Fredo). You broke my heart. You broke my heart".

So he screwed up. Move on. Get over it. Letting him in the Hall isn't going to harm the integrity of the game anymore than has already been done.

Pretending all those hits aren't worthy is laughable. Too many high horses.

Just my two cents.

Ron Madden
07-24-2011, 03:24 PM
That is all true. No doubt about it. However it really misses the point. Pete Rose is one of the most famous players ever. It is the Hall of Fame, right? Pete Rose was a great baseball player and a compulsive gambler. He was a flawed hero. People can relate to that. The HOF is missing a great opportunity to educate the public. They are distorting baseball history by ignoring a key part of it.

A baseball museum that leaves out a gambling scandal is like an American History museum that leaves out slavery. Unfortunately it happened, so it has to be there so people can understand it and learn from it. Burying their head in the sand and ignoring it just makes them look foolish.

Well said.

757690
07-24-2011, 03:35 PM
"I know it was you, Pete (Fredo). You broke my heart. You broke my heart".

So he screwed up. Move on. Get over it. Letting him in the Hall isn't going to harm the integrity of the game anymore than has already been done.

Pretending all those hits aren't worthy is laughable. Too many high horses.

Just my two cents.

Tinkers, Evers and Chance are in only because of a poem. I have no problem with it, but it pretty much establishes the Hall of Fame's standards.

_Sir_Charles_
07-24-2011, 03:36 PM
That is all true. No doubt about it. However it really misses the point. Pete Rose is one of the most famous players ever. It is the Hall of Fame, right? Pete Rose was a great baseball player and a compulsive gambler. He was a flawed hero. People can relate to that. The HOF is missing a great opportunity to educate the public. They are distorting baseball history by ignoring a key part of it.

A baseball museum that leaves out a gambling scandal is like an American History museum that leaves out slavery. Unfortunately it happened, so it has to be there so people can understand it and learn from it. Burying their head in the sand and ignoring it just makes them look foolish.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Exactly. Nobody is saying he didn't break the rules. But the Hall of Fame is JUST A MUSEUM.

If the problem is that it's "honoring" him...then fine. Don't let him get up on the podium and give an acceptance speech. But to not include him in the museum when he's plastered all over the record books is beyond silly.

MartyFan
07-24-2011, 03:38 PM
I grew up in the 70's. Watched the BRM. Cheered for each and every one of them but my all time favorite player then and now is Davey Concepcion.

As for Rose, he sickens me and it is MUCH MORE than just the betting on baseball it is that he allowed his friends to defend him, claim his innocence for over a decade before he finally said he bet on baseball. When he did say he bet on baseball he wrote it in a book and now he is pinning it on baseballs that sell to any idiot with $500.

Pete Rose is already in the HOF, it is a HOF he created himself. He etched the legacy he wanted people to have of him, warts and all. To every action there is a reaction and he knew full well when he was placing the bets, he was wrong, breaking the rules and spitting in the face of the game and every fan that provided for him a pretty nice life.

Pete Rose was a great player but if he had ever hit a ball out of the infield and run to third instead of first it wouldn't have been a triple just because he did it...the rules say you go to first...then second then third...the rules also say DO NOT BET ON BASEBALL...he did and if he ever get into the HOF it'll be too soon.


For sale $499

http://www.repmanblog.com/repman/images/baseball.jpg


Pete Rose, the gift that keeps on giving.

Hagiographic presumptions aside, 15fan is dead on.

First Pete reference in awhile, it surely is HOF season. Joe P. has an article on some of the fresher issues (http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2011/07/future-of-hall-of-fame.html) facing the little museum in New York.

dougdirt
07-24-2011, 04:00 PM
i guess Conlin gets your point....just like alot of us he's just calling for them to seperate the player from the manager

Problem is, Pete gambled on baseball both as a player and a manager, so you can't just "separate them". Both guys broke the rules.

dougdirt
07-24-2011, 04:04 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap:

Exactly. Nobody is saying he didn't break the rules. But the Hall of Fame is JUST A MUSEUM.

If the problem is that it's "honoring" him...then fine. Don't let him get up on the podium and give an acceptance speech. But to not include him in the museum when he's plastered all over the record books is beyond silly.

No, betting on baseball and thinking you were bigger than the only rule you see in the clubhouse every day is beyond silly.

RANDY IN INDY
07-24-2011, 04:57 PM
He'll be in after he dies. Heck, he's in there now. I visited last summer and there was plenty of Pete in the Hall. He was one of the greats of the game, regardless of his flawed character, and anyone that says he isn't is lying or didn't see him play. When I looked at some of the plaques of the flawed characters that were on the walls, there was, and is, no doubt, that Pete belongs there with them, flaws and all. Anyone that watched him play, that listened to him talk to reporters before and after games, knows that he was a fabulous player and one that promoted baseball, hustle, winning and playing till the last out to a generation of kids who watched and listened to him. Yeah, he broke the rules and it breaks my heart, but if there ever was a Hall of Fame "baseball player," Pete Rose is it.

RedsManRick
07-24-2011, 05:12 PM
I don't want Pete in Cooperstown for Pete. I want him in for the all of the fans who never got a chance to see him play to understand who he was and the role he played in the game and for the Reds. Deny him the honor if you want, but don't make the museum incomplete.

mbgrayson
07-24-2011, 06:51 PM
Problem is, Pete gambled on baseball both as a player and a manager, so you can't just "separate them". Both guys broke the rules.

Prove it. All of the allegations in the Dowd report were from 1987 and after. Pete retired as a player in 1986.

Even though Pete has a history of lying, you can't just make up stuff like that without proof. Prove that he bet on baseball before he retired.

mth123
07-24-2011, 07:58 PM
"I know it was you, Pete (Fredo). You broke my heart. You broke my heart".

So he screwed up. Move on. Get over it. Letting him in the Hall isn't going to harm the integrity of the game anymore than has already been done.

Pretending all those hits aren't worthy is laughable. Too many high horses.

Just my two cents.

:thumbup:

cincinnati chili
07-24-2011, 08:11 PM
I have no problem with Pete Rose being on the ballot or getting in the Hall. A 20+ year sentence is severe, and I think that fits the severity of the crime.

Bill Conlin? Is this the same Bill Conlin who didn't vote for Nolan Ryan to be in the Hall of Fame? Not sure his opinion means diddly squat.

15fan
07-24-2011, 10:29 PM
"I know it was you, Pete (Fredo). You broke my heart. You broke my heart".

So he screwed up. Move on. Get over it. Letting him in the Hall isn't going to harm the integrity of the game anymore than has already been done.

Pretending all those hits aren't worthy is laughable. Too many high horses.

Just my two cents.

MLB Rule 21 (d)

BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared ineligible for one year. Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

One person kept Pete Rose out of the HoF:

Pete Rose.

savafan
07-24-2011, 10:46 PM
MLB Rule 21 (d)

BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared ineligible for one year. Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

One person kept Pete Rose out of the HoF:

Pete Rose.

There was no rule against banned players being eligible for the Hall of Fame before Fay Vincent became convinced that Rose was responsible for the death of Bart Giamatti.

mbgrayson
07-24-2011, 10:58 PM
There was no rule against banned players being eligible for the Hall of Fame before Fay Vincent became convinced that Rose was responsible for the death of Bart Giamatti.

Exactly right. Pete could have been permanently ineligible to play MLB ball or manage again, but still able to be voted into the HOF. (Till they changed the rule after Pete took the deal).

RichRed
07-25-2011, 01:13 PM
Bill Conlin? Is this the same Bill Conlin who didn't vote for Nolan Ryan to be in the Hall of Fame? Not sure his opinion means diddly squat.

This is exactly the first thing I thought of. He cited Ryan's W/L record as a reason to keep him out. Kind of lost interest in his opinions after that.

EDIT: He apparently later acknowledged that he was wrong to leave Ryan off his ballot.

RANDY IN INDY
07-25-2011, 01:24 PM
Fay Vincent became convinced that Rose was responsible for the death of Bart Giamatti.

I think that statement plays a lot more than anyone wants to acknowledge.

cincinnati chili
07-26-2011, 12:08 AM
This is exactly the first thing I thought of. He cited Ryan's W/L record as a reason to keep him out. Kind of lost interest in his opinions after that.

EDIT: He apparently later acknowledged that he was wrong to leave Ryan off his ballot.

Didn't know that. Good for him. I give people credit for admitting they were wrong, especially people from Philly who especially seem to struggle with it.

Slyder
07-26-2011, 06:57 PM
I have long thought that baseball was waiting for the year Pete passes from this world to induct him and Joe Jackson together so that he directly could not prosper off of baseball.

BoydsOfSummer
07-26-2011, 08:32 PM
I hope he's not reinstated until after my death. Go away Pete.