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View Full Version : It's Time to Part with Jonny Gomes



reds44
07-24-2011, 11:54 PM
.340/.446/.547/.993

That is Jonny Gomes' slash line against LHP this season. A fantastic line, no doubt about it. However, that line comes in an entire 53 ABs this season. 53 at bats in 101 games. For the math challenged like I am, that averages out to one AB every two (ish) games for Gomes against LHP.

.171/.302/.354/.655

That is Gomes' slash line against RHP pitching this year, in 164 ABs.

2-26.

Jonny Gomes' numbers in the month of July.

0-15, 1 BB, 10 K

Jonny Gomes' numbers as a PHer this year.

-16.5

Gomes' career UZR/150 in LF.

What's my point? Gomes ability to mash left handed pitching does not warrant him being on the roster when you consider how bad he is at everything else. He's a bad defender, he can't get a hit off the bench this year, he can't hit RHP, and he can only play one position. The 53 ABs does not give him enough value to stay on the roster.

Gomes has run his course here. It is time for him to go and allow yourself some more flexibility on the roster.

Ron Madden
07-25-2011, 12:02 AM
Counter Point by edabbs44 in 10... 9... 8... 7....








.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-25-2011, 12:05 AM
It was time. A long time ago.

mbgrayson
07-25-2011, 12:08 AM
http://morristsai.com/assets_c/2011/03/250922571-thumb-300x424-2445.jpg

reds44
07-25-2011, 12:09 AM
http://wifasso.com/Bobbles/2006_files/image003.jpg

CrackerJack
07-25-2011, 12:13 AM
http://morristsai.com/assets_c/2011/03/250922571-thumb-00x424-2445.jpg


And there it is...

Plus he has a mohawk and dresses funny.

CrackerJack
07-25-2011, 12:19 AM
http://wifasso.com/Bobbles/2006_files/image003.jpg


I find this offensive. (Power of tradition?)

It should be burned, all of them.

Patrick Bateman
07-25-2011, 12:20 AM
.340/.446/.547/.993

That is Jonny Gomes' slash line against LHP this season. A fantastic line, no doubt about it. However, that line comes in an entire 53 ABs this season. 53 at bats in 101 games. For the math challenged like I am, that averages out to one AB every two (ish) games for Gomes against LHP.

.171/.302/.354/.655

That is Gomes' slash line against RHP pitching this year, in 164 ABs.

2-26.

Jonny Gomes' numbers in the month of July.

0-15, 1 BB, 10 K

Jonny Gomes' numbers as a PHer this year.

-16.5

Gomes' career UZR/150 in LF.

What's my point? Gomes ability to mash left handed pitching does not warrant him being on the roster when you consider how bad he is at everything else. He's a bad defender, he can't get a hit off the bench this year, he can't hit RHP, and he can only play one position. The 53 ABs does not give him enough value to stay on the roster.

Gomes has run his course here. It is time for him to go and allow yourself some more flexibility on the roster.

Well the July and PH numbers although moderately interesting, hold no predictive value.

It's simply ability to hit LH pitching vs. poor defense and poor hitting vs. righties.

It's simply value against lefties vs. defense plus value against righties.

If used correctly like tonight, I'm not so sure the alternatives are an upgrade.

GADawg
07-25-2011, 12:27 AM
a get rid of Jonny Gomes thread?! very original. I like Gomes but admittedly mostly agree but the amount of threads/posts is so irritating. Is it excessive?

WVRedsFan
07-25-2011, 12:38 AM
Not really excessive. The point is, this is the real Jonny Gomes that everyone should have realized was the player he was. Same story at Florida. One good year and then down, down, down. Hia third year has always been horrible and such is the case with the Reds this year. Never mind Thom Brenneman's, "Oh, Jonny" calls for the bobblehead day, time to cut bait and find a real hitter. I hate it for Gomes, but that's baseball.

corkedbat
07-25-2011, 01:25 AM
I love Jonny's attitude and the way he play's the game. I have no problem with him as a clubhouse presence and a right-handed bat off the bench who starts agains the occaisional lefty. My problem is that he is the type of guy who can put together a torrid streak for a couple of weeks and then struggle to be average the rest of the time. With Dusty at the helm, two weeks of toried buys him two or three months of starts.

The other thing that kind of bothers me is his defense. Walt replacing EdE how illustrated how upgrading D at one spot can be. That makes me wonder why he would go so long without finding a repalcement for Gomes (Dollars? Chemistry? Burning Man Photos of Walt?). There are OFers out there who can match Gomes offense and be much superior on D - Heiseyt for one, but I don't see Chris as a corner OFer and believe that would show over the course of a full season.

mth123
07-25-2011, 05:47 AM
If the Reds could get an honest to goodness everyday LF who can hit in the middle of the order and have the ability to be a real threat against all types of pitching, I'd be all for dealing Gomes to a team looking for a lefty killer. Lacking that, I'd prefer a power platoon that can provide lots of middle of the order pop (no pesky punch and judy guys or below .450 slugging % need apply). The Reds don't have an every day player like that on the roster or on the horizon and can't afford one from the outside. Piecing together a platoon is the best bet IMO. If so, I want a guy like Gomes to be the starter against LHP. Of course if they could find a similar bat with speed and defense I'd be all for it, but Stubbs is already playing in CF and if used correctly, under the same type of job sharing arrangement.

buckeyenut
07-25-2011, 06:02 AM
BJ Upton anyone?

mth123
07-25-2011, 06:10 AM
BJ Upton anyone?

Doesn't solve the team's problem against RHP and isn't better than Stubbs or Heisey as an all around OF. Once upon a time he played some IF. If he could still play 3B, I'd be all over getting him.

edabbs44
07-25-2011, 07:12 AM
The best part of the original post was the statistical shell game being played. UZR stats are worse career vs this year? Go with career. Stats vs RHP are worse this season than career, though babip is insanely low? Go with 2011. Partial month numbers are also in play, especially when they only encompass 16 PAs.

I think you can make a decent argument w/o the unbalanced attack, to be perfectly honest.

Redlegs
07-25-2011, 08:27 AM
He doesn't seem to have much value at this point. Part ways for anything you can get and bring Alonzo up and put him in LF everyday. That's what I say.

IslandRed
07-25-2011, 09:18 AM
His third year has always been horrible and such is the case with the Reds this year.

1. You say that as if there had been more than one "third year" before he got to the Reds.

2. His third year in Tampa wasn't horrible. It was the fourth year.

But yes, I think he's an obvious candidate to be banished to DFA Island if the Reds are able to pull a trade for an outfielder.

Mario-Rijo
07-25-2011, 09:45 AM
1. You say that as if there had more than one "third year" before he got to the Reds.

2. His third year in Tampa wasn't horrible. It was the fourth year.

But yes, I think he's an obvious candidate to be banished to DFA Island if the Reds are able to pull a trade for an outfielder.

I'd just about lay money Lewis goes before him.

IslandRed
07-25-2011, 09:56 AM
I'd just about lay money Lewis goes before him.

I'm assuming that if the Reds pull a trade, it'll be for an everyday LF, not a platoon partner. Could be wrong. But without those semi-regular starts against LHP, there's no reason for Gomes to be on the roster. At least Lewis provides a left-handed bench bat, even if he's not doing much either.

If there is an Alonso callup then it figures Lewis would be the superfluous guy.

nate
07-25-2011, 10:03 AM
That's a pretty awesome bobblehead.

RE: Jonny performance, there's not much to say. He's a good hitter vs. LHP. If that's a team weakness, keep him. If not, and especially if a team is interested in him, trade him.

Mario-Rijo
07-25-2011, 10:08 AM
I'm assuming that if the Reds pull a trade, it'll be for an everyday LF, not a platoon partner. Could be wrong. But without those semi-regular starts against LHP, there's no reason for Gomes to be on the roster. At least Lewis provides a left-handed bench bat, even if he's not doing much either.

If there is an Alonso callup then it figures Lewis would be the superfluous guy.

I agree but we know Gomes is a clubhouse favorite, something tells me Lewis hasn't quite meshed that well yet and Walt, Dusty & Company love them some chemistry.

Bumstead
07-25-2011, 11:20 AM
I agree but we know Gomes is a clubhouse favorite, something tells me Lewis hasn't quite meshed that well yet and Walt, Dusty & Company love them some chemistry.

Gomes "chemistry" has the Reds at 50-51...I think the Red's wouldn't miss him in the least. He's just a bad baseball player and Dusty loves him. It is always best to keep these types of players away from Dusty (ala Neifi)...of course, I have been saying this since they got him...oh well...

Bum

edabbs44
07-25-2011, 12:24 PM
Gomes "chemistry" has the Reds at 50-51...I think the Red's wouldn't miss him in the least. He's just a bad baseball player and Dusty loves him. It is always best to keep these types of players away from Dusty (ala Neifi)...of course, I have been saying this since they got him...oh well...

Bum

Same things were said about Cabrera as well.

Bumstead
07-25-2011, 12:30 PM
Same things were said about Cabrera as well.

I thought the Reds won the division with O-Cab...I liked O-Cab, he obviously didn't have Janish's range but he was really smart on the field and got a lot of big hits...Gomes...horrible...120 AB's a year against LHP isn't worth the annoyance of watching Dusty run him out there for 300-450 AB's.

reds44
07-25-2011, 12:34 PM
The best part of the original post was the statistical shell game being played. UZR stats are worse career vs this year? Go with career. Stats vs RHP are worse this season than career, though babip is insanely low? Go with 2011. Partial month numbers are also in play, especially when they only encompass 16 PAs.

I think you can make a decent argument w/o the unbalanced attack, to be perfectly honest.
I went with his career UZR/150 because it's more accurate the greater the sample size. Gomes numbers vs LHP are better this year than the rest of his career, yet I still used this season's numbers. I wasn't trying to skew any stats.

RedsManRick
07-25-2011, 01:36 PM
The best part of the original post was the statistical shell game being played. UZR stats are worse career vs this year? Go with career. Stats vs RHP are worse this season than career, though babip is insanely low? Go with 2011. Partial month numbers are also in play, especially when they only encompass 16 PAs.

I think you can make a decent argument w/o the unbalanced attack, to be perfectly honest.

Agreed. Not a big fan of the selective citations, but the basic points still stand per his well-established track record. He mashes lefties, is mediocre vs. righties and is a poor defender. That's as weak of a combination today as it's been for the last few months/years.

Rojo
07-25-2011, 01:48 PM
If you had an every day left fielder who couldn't hit lefties, then Gomes would be a nice addition. That's not the case. IOW, Gomes is a solution for a problem we don't have.

bucksfan2
07-25-2011, 02:36 PM
If you had an every day left fielder who couldn't hit lefties, then Gomes would be a nice addition. That's not the case. IOW, Gomes is a solution for a problem we don't have.

Which LF on this team hits lefties?

Gomes is getting the playing time right now of a 5th OF. He is the 25th man on the roster and is coming off the bench in PH situations. Last night Gomes got ripped for doing what PH do. Come in cold off the bench, try to find the first pitch they can hit hard and do so. Unfortunately for him it was a sharp grounder that Gonzales got to.

I have no problem with the way Gomes is being used now. And if Gomes got hot out there for a month or so that would be a good thing, right?

fearofpopvol1
07-25-2011, 02:37 PM
The best part of the original post was the statistical shell game being played. UZR stats are worse career vs this year? Go with career. Stats vs RHP are worse this season than career, though babip is insanely low? Go with 2011. Partial month numbers are also in play, especially when they only encompass 16 PAs.

I think you can make a decent argument w/o the unbalanced attack, to be perfectly honest.

In fairness, you typically like to play a shell game with Heisey's numbers when someone suggests he is a better option. When it's usually a week or 2 weeks worth of PAs.

WVRedsFan
07-25-2011, 02:49 PM
1. You say that as if there had been more than one "third year" before he got to the Reds.

2. His third year in Tampa wasn't horrible. It was the fourth year.

But yes, I think he's an obvious candidate to be banished to DFA Island if the Reds are able to pull a trade for an outfielder.You are correct, sir. I was working from memory which is a dangerous thing for me. I forgot about that 100 games the first full year. Regardless, the record shows that the more familiar he is, the less he hits.

Always Red
07-25-2011, 03:18 PM
I have no problem with the way Gomes is being used now. And if Gomes got hot out there for a month or so that would be a good thing, right?

I also think that Dusty is using Gomes correctly now. He's a good bat to have off the bench against LH pitching.

Sign me up for replacing Lewis' bat and glove.

reds44
07-25-2011, 03:52 PM
In theory, he's a bat off the bench.

He's hitless pinch hitting this year. For his career he has a .568 OPS as a PHer with 34 K and 6 BB.

Rojo
07-25-2011, 04:17 PM
In theory, he's a bat off the bench.

He's hitless pinch hitting this year. For his career he has a .568 OPS as a PHer with 34 K and 6 BB.

Add to this that he's not a glove or a runner.

Kc61
07-25-2011, 04:23 PM
I also think that Dusty is using Gomes correctly now. He's a good bat to have off the bench against LH pitching.

Sign me up for replacing Lewis' bat and glove.

I disagree.

The Reds lead the world in hitting against lefties. Almost the whole team hits right handed. Even Votto hits lefties better than righties.

The Reds do not need Gomes' bat against lefties.

The Reds should keep Lewis as a reserve and should add more lefty hitting. Or add righty hitting that handles righty pitching.

Gomes is one of the players who causes the lefty/righty imbalance on the Reds.

Screwball
07-25-2011, 04:24 PM
Add to this that he's not a glove or a runner.

Yes, but he can out-chemistry all other PHers combined.

reds44
07-25-2011, 04:35 PM
Add to this that he's not a glove or a runner.
Exactly. This was the exact point of this thread. Dude mashes lefties, no doubt, but he literally does nothing else well. He can't play multiple positions, he can't run, he can't field, he's not strong off the bench. At best, he's a guy who starts everytime a lefty pitches and he gets 2 or 3 ABs. I just don't think that warrants a spot on the roster.

TRF
07-25-2011, 05:53 PM
Am i the only person that read the thread title as...

"It's time to party with Jonny Gomes"

RedEye
07-25-2011, 06:01 PM
The best part of the original post was the statistical shell game being played. UZR stats are worse career vs this year? Go with career. Stats vs RHP are worse this season than career, though babip is insanely low? Go with 2011. Partial month numbers are also in play, especially when they only encompass 16 PAs.

I think you can make a decent argument w/o the unbalanced attack, to be perfectly honest.

Backhanded compliment of the year to be sure... But folks, I think we have an AGREEMENT here!

edabbs44
07-25-2011, 08:46 PM
Exactly. This was the exact point of this thread. Dude mashes lefties, no doubt, but he literally does nothing else well. He can't play multiple positions, he can't run, he can't field, he's not strong off the bench. At best, he's a guy who starts everytime a lefty pitches and he gets 2 or 3 ABs. I just don't think that warrants a spot on the roster.

I wouldn't go that far...he isn't unplayable vs RHP. He has power and career wise is better than a few Cincy starters vs RHP.

His babip is wayyyyy off this season vs RHP. The question is whether or not you think there is something to that.

There are worse players on MLB rosters. Contending rosters. But, as I said before, at a certain point something has to give. I see no issue with cutting Gomes loose, however expectations should be tempered at what will be replacing him.

The Voice of IH
07-26-2011, 10:55 PM
Thank you Johnny, you were a huge piece in one of the most memorable summers of my life! (sad I know but true).