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View Full Version : Drew Stubbs/Eric Davis



mlh1981
07-25-2011, 10:27 AM
Valid comparison?

I've heard this made a few times by some of the Cincinnati sports talk radio personnel.

Both have the power and speed. I was too young to remember Davis that well, but overall, how accurate of a comparison is this?

TheBigLebowski
07-25-2011, 10:42 AM
ED was much better in every aspect of the game, but one could say Stubbs is the poor man's ED.

Captain13
07-25-2011, 11:37 AM
ED was much better in every aspect of the game, but one could say Stubbs is the poor man's ED.

What he said. ED once hit 20HR and stole 80 bases in a season. Also had 37HR and 40 SB in a season. True Gold Glove center fielder. He also struck out too much, but not like Drew. ED was/is the man.

webbbj
07-25-2011, 11:49 AM
drew stubbs possesses every quality that ED had just to a lesser extent.

FireDusty
07-25-2011, 12:19 PM
Not even on the same planet.

When Eric Davis was in his prime, which was brief because injuries ravaged him, he was the best player I have ever seen, including anybody from the Big Red Machine.

His problem was that he could not sustain that high level of play for longer than 3 or 4 years.

If the Reds had called him up earlier in 1986, he would have hit 30 homeruns and stolen 100 bases.

The following year, he took on the wall in Wrigley, missed 40 games and would have hit 50 homeruns and stolen 70 bases.

Add to that the best outfield defense I have ever seen before or since and the best, most accurate throwing arm (Including Geronimo) and it adds up to the best player I ever saw.

My dad said he was as good as Mays, but I was to young to see Mays in his prime. My dad said Mays would have stolen 50 to 70 bases every year if he had wanted to, but it was a different game back then and they just didn't do it as much.

By the early 60's, Mays had lost the blazing speed he had during the 50's and was a filled out slugger.

Davis, for 3 or 4 injury filled years, was the best player I ever saw.

Stubbs isn't even close.

swaisuc
07-25-2011, 01:02 PM
Similar in style, but not production.

kfm
07-25-2011, 08:19 PM
At this point, not even close. ED was arguably the best player in the national league while he was in his prime. He not only had the potential to do everything, but he did everything, hit, power, throw, run, defense. IT is a shame he could not stay healthy because even Barry Larkin was second fiddle to ED in his healthy prime.

ervinsm84
07-25-2011, 08:44 PM
not really close other than both being extremely physically gifted.

Davis OPS+
Age 24 was his first full major league season
24 143
25 155
26 139
27 153
28 129

Stubbs still hasnt had an OPS+ above 104 and he entered the majors at the age of 24 too.

However, as blasphemous as this is gonna sound I think Davis may be getting a little too much love as far as just how good he really was. A decent amount of a players value comes from being able to stay healthy. I know injuries negatively affected his career, but never having a single season where he played more than 135 games is rarely just one freak injury. Id like to find a breakdown on all his injuries, or if anyone thinks maybe he could have done more in the off-season to help him stay healthy.

webbbj
07-25-2011, 08:57 PM
Davis, for 3 or 4 injury filled years, was the best player I ever saw.

Stubbs isn't even close.

you must not have watched many plaeyrs

LeDoux
07-25-2011, 09:15 PM
If tonight Stubbs steals third and then gets in a fight with Wright, I will see them as better comps.

Vottomatic
07-25-2011, 11:30 PM
I remember they took a poll one year of NL catchers, and they voted Eric Davis the based base stealer. They basically said he was the toughest guy to throw out. And he was.

You always hate to see a guy decimated with injuries. But ED was. But he singlehandedly set the tone for the '90 World Series with that HR off Dave Stewart.

BluegrassRedleg
07-26-2011, 01:17 AM
Dude...

FireDusty
07-26-2011, 08:40 AM
you must not have watched many plaeyrs

I dunno.

I watched 3 Hall of Famers, the All Time Hits Leader who would be in the Hall if he weren't retarded, a should be Hall of Fame SS, another SS that will be elected next year, 6 MVP's in the 1970's, 3 World Titles, and that was just the home team.

There isn't enough space for me to tell you all the great players that came through town that I personally saw that played for the opponent.

bounty37h
07-26-2011, 04:23 PM
Other than both are centerfielders, Reds, and fast there is no comparison.

Redeye fly
07-27-2011, 12:29 AM
I dunno.

I watched 3 Hall of Famers, the All Time Hits Leader who would be in the Hall if he weren't retarded, a should be Hall of Fame SS, another SS that will be elected next year, 6 MVP's in the 1970's, 3 World Titles, and that was just the home team.

There isn't enough space for me to tell you all the great players that came through town that I personally saw that played for the opponent.

Indeed. There's a reason why when it comes to the "eyeball test" everyone raved about Eric Davis when he was healthy, young, and in his prime. He would have been baseball's first 40/40 player had he been healthier in 87, and while I don't know if Canseco was on steroids at that time (probably) was, Davis would have done it clean, even if it was a "juiced ball" season... he himself was clean.

When it comes to that eyeball test in 87, he truly was incredible. I think I remembering him stealing home runs away from Jack Clark in back to back games, or in the same series anyway. The guy had big time power, world class speed, and could run down everything in the outfield. I mean when they're comparing you to Willie Mays in terms of talent and tools, that's pretty elite company. Obviously in part due to the injuries, the numbers weren't anywhere close, but overall the man still had a very good career, and it's not unreasonable for you or anyone else to say he's the best player you ever saw in his healthy prime.

Redeye fly
07-27-2011, 12:36 AM
not really close other than both being extremely physically gifted.

Davis OPS+
Age 24 was his first full major league season
24 143
25 155
26 139
27 153
28 129

Stubbs still hasnt had an OPS+ above 104 and he entered the majors at the age of 24 too.

However, as blasphemous as this is gonna sound I think Davis may be getting a little too much love as far as just how good he really was. A decent amount of a players value comes from being able to stay healthy. I know injuries negatively affected his career, but never having a single season where he played more than 135 games is rarely just one freak injury. Id like to find a breakdown on all his injuries, or if anyone thinks maybe he could have done more in the off-season to help him stay healthy.

The guy played his entire Reds career on Astro Turf and had little to no regard for his body when it came to going all out to make a play. He had a slim, kind of wiry body type and I would say that type of body diving all around on a layer of fake grass over an extremely hard surface underneath, something has to give and it's probably going to be that player's body.

He lacerated his kidney in that World Series in 90 going all out diving for the baseball. He also had a bout with colon cancer when he was still playing toward the latter part of his career. So yeah, not one freak injury, but running around and diving around on that fake grass will lead to some problems. The guy probably didn't have much body fat on him in his prime, though again he wasn't big... wiry. But I'd say it's obvious he stayed in shape. Some guys really are snake bit for one reason or another. J.D. Drew has been injured many times in his career, and he's pretty well respected in sabermetric circles... and for good reason as he's been a very good player. But again, a little snakebit at times.

salbutera
07-27-2011, 12:42 AM
Stubbs equals Reggie Sanders

Redeye fly
07-27-2011, 12:47 AM
Stubbs equals Reggie Sanders

Time will tell, but that might not be a bad off the cuff comparison actually. Sanders was a guy who was supposed to be the "next Eric Davis" who didn't quite make it in terms of talent, reaching his ceiling, or production when again Davis was in healthy prime.

That said, Reggie Sanders had a long and solid major league career, flaws and all, and Stubbs is good enough to do the same.

Roush's socks
07-27-2011, 12:18 PM
At his best Eric Davis was considered to be a top 5 player in the MLB, so I don't think the comparison is valid. But they do have similar skills.

LeDoux
07-27-2011, 06:10 PM
Stubbs and the coaches really need to decide on the best path for Stubbs. If he they want to maximize his power potenial, put him in the 7 hole. If they want to maximize his speed and be kept in the leadoff roll, he needs to focus on making contact and recognizing pitches. They seem to be sending mixed signals on him.

Redeye fly
07-27-2011, 06:16 PM
Stubbs and the coaches really need to decide on the best path for Stubbs. If he they want to maximize his power potenial, put him in the 7 hole. If they want to maximize his speed and be kept in the leadoff roll, he needs to focus on making contact and recognizing pitches. They seem to be sending mixed signals on him.

I don't blame the coaches for that at all. I mean maybe a little, if you want to take the Brook Jacoby is not developing Drew Stubbs as a hitter angle that I know brm and I'm sure some others do. But I think it's clear from where they originally put him that they would like Stubbs to be a lead off hitter. It's just Stubbs isn't a low strikeout or even a high walk type of hitter, so Stubbs himself plays himself out of the lead off spot.

LeDoux
07-27-2011, 06:51 PM
I don't blame the coaches for that at all. I mean maybe a little, if you want to take the Brook Jacoby is not developing Drew Stubbs as a hitter angle that I know brm and I'm sure some others do. But I think it's clear from where they originally put him that they would like Stubbs to be a lead off hitter. It's just Stubbs isn't a low strikeout or even a high walk type of hitter, so Stubbs himself plays himself out of the lead off spot.

I was not really trying to place blame, but to point out that Stubbs hitting approach does not seem to match his current role. Dusty likes aggresive hitters. And it seems like Stubbs swing is a more geared toward OPS than OBP. This approach is probably best in the 7 slot, but not in the leadoff role. But how many times do you see Stubbs trying to guide a ball into a hole in the infield, work a count, or drop a bunt?

BluegrassRedleg
07-27-2011, 07:50 PM
Stubbs equals Reggie Sanders

Even Reggie Sanders at his worst (95 NLCS) does not deserve that comparison. He'd at least give you a professional AB against most pitchers. It took that HoF staff assembled by Atlanta to expose him badly. Stubbs goes out and gets exposed on a nightly basis by anyone who toes the rubber. He needs to spend all winter and spring doing nothing but bunting and retooling his approach at the dish.

code
07-27-2011, 09:47 PM
Drew Stubbs has ED?? that sucks.

partisan
07-27-2011, 11:44 PM
Drew Stubbs has ED?? that sucks.

You tool.


I wish Stubbs would figure it out already. We have a lot of people chomping at the bit to get some playing time in OF and having a leadoff hitter top the league in strikeouts isn't really doing anything for me.

partisan
07-27-2011, 11:51 PM
Even Reggie Sanders at his worst (95 NLCS) does not deserve that comparison. He'd at least give you a professional AB against most pitchers. It took that HoF staff assembled by Atlanta to expose him badly. Stubbs goes out and gets exposed on a nightly basis by anyone who toes the rubber. He needs to spend all winter and spring doing nothing but bunting and retooling his approach at the dish.

I think we all knew when he was drafted, and based on his performance in the minors, that he was going to have trouble hitting for average. He strikes out a lot, and thats not going to change anytime soon barring a miracle.

The truly confounding thing is why he continues to be the leadoff hitter.