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View Full Version : Maybe we need to consider?



brm7675
07-26-2011, 01:06 PM
Yes Votto was last year's MVP, but I am really wondering if overall for this team long term maybe we should consider what he would bring us on the trade market. We have Yonder who is continuing to progress at a good level on the AAA level. Yonder would provide us more stability at 1st for a longer time and be cheaper allowing the Reds to spend monies in other areas. So what kind of return should we look to for Votto?

SwingKing01
07-26-2011, 01:33 PM
I just don't see trading a franchise player in the middle of a playoff race, or for any other time for that matter unless he is in the last year of his contract, you know your not going to be able to resign him, and your out of contention no matter who you have in the minors, or what you can get for him. It would be ike the Cardinals trading Pujols, you can't do it and be taken seriously.

Girevik
07-26-2011, 01:40 PM
If you could trade him and improve today's team (or the team over the next couple of years), but any team looking to pick him up would be wanting to move prospects. The playoff window for this team comes along so seldom that I don't think you can trade him for prospects HOPING you'll have that window open again in a few years. Go for the ring now while it's in reach.

Jefferson24
07-26-2011, 01:47 PM
Go for the ring now while it's in reach.

This team does not have a ring in reach now and it is not even close.

brm7675
07-26-2011, 02:07 PM
I would look at some offers in the offseason, I would see what is out there, I am not saying trade him, but I would sure look at what he might bring.

Krawhitham
07-26-2011, 02:23 PM
Yes Votto was last year's MVP, but I am really wondering if overall for this team long term maybe we should consider what he would bring us on the trade market. We have Yonder who is continuing to progress at a good level on the AAA level. Yonder would provide us more stability at 1st for a longer time and be cheaper allowing the Reds to spend monies in other areas. So what kind of return should we look to for Votto?

People act like replacing Votto is an easy thing to do, do you know the last time the Reds had a 1st basemen with 30+hr and hit .300+ besides Votto?

It took the Reds 51 years to replace Frank Robinson (1959)

Krawhitham
07-26-2011, 02:24 PM
This team does not have a ring in reach now and it is not even close.

This is as close as they have been in 20 years

mroby85
07-26-2011, 02:29 PM
Yes Votto was last year's MVP, but I am really wondering if overall for this team long term maybe we should consider what he would bring us on the trade market. We have Yonder who is continuing to progress at a good level on the AAA level. Yonder would provide us more stability at 1st for a longer time and be cheaper allowing the Reds to spend monies in other areas. So what kind of return should we look to for Votto?

If they traded Joey Votto, i'd go with him. (not that anyone cares lol) I'm tired of the losing mentality. What is the point of rooting for a team that would trade an MVP type player when they finally get one.

Jefferson24
07-26-2011, 02:45 PM
This is as close as they have been in 20 years

True, and I guess reach is a relative term. I would say they are in reach of the playoffs. They are a long shot at a championship.

13 in hall
07-26-2011, 02:47 PM
Call me crazy but this I would do is this. I offer Votto the best contract extension the Reds can afford, even with two years remaining on his deal. If he still says no that he can't see hiself committing to this place long term then I tell him were not trading you but bring your left fielders glove this spring traing. Alonso is our new firstbaseman will out porduce all current left fielders and Joey continues to produce in left because he wants that big payday in two years. I know, I know all are going to talk about respect, but all this repect does is cause you to keep getting beat.

Vottomatic
07-26-2011, 02:51 PM
I'm Votto's biggest fan, but I would consider trading him for the right return.

If the Rockies think they can get Mesoraco, Heisey and Chapman from the Reds for Jimenez, I can only imagine what Votto would bring in return.

Geez, the Dodgers might trade Kemp and Kershaw straight up for Joey. I'd do that. Then I'd bring up Alonso.

Jefferson24
07-26-2011, 02:54 PM
If they traded Joey Votto, i'd go with him. (not that anyone cares lol) I'm tired of the losing mentality. What is the point of rooting for a team that would trade an MVP type player when they finally get one.

We as fans lose sight of the bottom line and it is not winning championships, it is the almighty dollar. If the leadership decides trading Votto could make them substantially more competitive for the next 3-5 years, even more competitive than they would be with Votto, then they might do it. If the mentality was that a more competitive team puts more dollars in the pocket in the long run then it might be considered.

Ownership may very well decide that there is a certain level of success that they are happy with. They may not want to spend more than a certain amount if it means it will cut into their profits too much.

I don't think they are going to trade Votto but I could see a strong case to be made for it...if you were only concerned about the dollars.

Girevik
07-26-2011, 02:56 PM
This team does not have a ring in reach now and it is not even close.

I think they ARE close, that's why I think they should move prospects to bring in two or three guys to get them over the hump. If they aren't even close now, then where will they be when Votto and Phillips are gone? We may as well give up on the Reds and focus on football.

FireDusty
07-26-2011, 02:58 PM
People act like replacing Votto is an easy thing to do, do you know the last time the Reds had a 1st basemen with 30+hr and hit .300+ besides Votto?

It took the Reds 51 years to replace Frank Robinson (1959)
Actually, it was before the 1966 season, Reds owner Bill DeWitt sent Robinson to Baltimore in exchange for pitcher Milt Pappas, pitcher Jack Baldschun and outfielder Dick Simpson. The trade is now considered among the most lopsided deals in baseball history. In Robinson's first year in Baltimore, he won the Triple Crown, and Baltimore won the World Series.

If the Reds had had Robinson to oversee the young tidal wave of talent that was on the way, many feel as of the Big Red Machine would have arrived much sooner.

My dad said he was essentially run out of town because he was a black man that wasn't afraid to say what was on his mind and that did not sit well with Bill DeWitt.

brm7675
07-26-2011, 03:01 PM
People act like replacing Votto is an easy thing to do, do you know the last time the Reds had a 1st basemen with 30+hr and hit .300+ besides Votto?

It took the Reds 51 years to replace Frank Robinson (1959)

And with those numbers how did we do in the playoffs last year and so far this season? Again you don't give him away but we do have a very nice replacement in Yonder and could possibily upgrade the team. Are you telling me you wouldn't even consider it?

brm7675
07-26-2011, 03:02 PM
If they traded Joey Votto, i'd go with him. (not that anyone cares lol) I'm tired of the losing mentality. What is the point of rooting for a team that would trade an MVP type player when they finally get one.

Hmm...to improve the team?

brm7675
07-26-2011, 03:04 PM
Call me crazy but this I would do is this. I offer Votto the best contract extension the Reds can afford, even with two years remaining on his deal. If he still says no that he can't see hiself committing to this place long term then I tell him were not trading you but bring your left fielders glove this spring traing. Alonso is our new firstbaseman will out porduce all current left fielders and Joey continues to produce in left because he wants that big payday in two years. I know, I know all are going to talk about respect, but all this repect does is cause you to keep getting beat.

Can't do that, it takes more then an offseason to learn how to play LF and lets be honost Joey is NOT a great defensive player, plus then you would have a upset player. What I would do is then begin shopping him hard and have Yonder in LF and some 1st (Votto's day's off) and go from there.

keeganbrick
07-26-2011, 03:05 PM
The earliest you should be having this conversation is if were out of it at the same time next year.

brm7675
07-26-2011, 03:08 PM
The earliest you should be having this conversation is if were out of it at the same time next year.

Why? Then there is just a year left on his contract with no guarentee the team getting him could keep him and only giving them a year to possibly getting an extension done.

mroby85
07-26-2011, 03:53 PM
Hmm...to improve the team?

And in what year exactly will this powerhouse be formed? or will they just want to trade Alonso, and those prospects when they become good like Votto..? I've been hearing about these prospects for a long time, now that Votto turned into a stud they should trade him for more prospects? give me a break.

brm7675
07-26-2011, 04:31 PM
And in what year exactly will this powerhouse be formed? or will they just want to trade Alonso, and those prospects when they become good like Votto..? I've been hearing about these prospects for a long time, now that Votto turned into a stud they should trade him for more prospects? give me a break.

Yes that is how smaller market teams work, they build with youth and select certain players to sign to long term deals. Votto has said he doesn't want a long term deal, so you are okay with losing him after the 2013 season and get nothing?

mroby85
07-26-2011, 04:45 PM
Yes that is how smaller market teams work, they build with youth and select certain players to sign to long term deals. Votto has said he doesn't want a long term deal, so you are okay with losing him after the 2013 season and get nothing?

Well you're assuming he won't resign, but apparently that is what I would do because I wouldn't trade him.

R_Webb18
07-26-2011, 04:49 PM
do teams not do this? our triple A mlb ready player for anthor teams triple A mlb ready OF does this stuff just not happen?

The DARK
07-26-2011, 04:49 PM
Trading him would be a terrible idea this season. Pujols, Fielder, and Berkman are all going to be on the market this offseason, and both the Yankees and Red Sox are set at the position. 1B is a saturated market right now; Joey won't fetch nearly what he would in a season where he's the big fish on the market. Besides, we're contenders for this season and next, and Joey Votto is our main draw for this crowd. Trade him and watch our attendance plummet.

brm7675
07-26-2011, 05:19 PM
Well you're assuming he won't resign, but apparently that is what I would do because I wouldn't trade him.

I would say the odds of resigning him are around 30-40% and why in the world would you let him walk? Talk about bad baseball...

brm7675
07-26-2011, 05:22 PM
Trading him would be a terrible idea this season. Pujols, Fielder, and Berkman are all going to be on the market this offseason, and both the Yankees and Red Sox are set at the position. 1B is a saturated market right now; Joey won't fetch nearly what he would in a season where he's the big fish on the market. Besides, we're contenders for this season and next, and Joey Votto is our main draw for this crowd. Trade him and watch our attendance plummet.

Don't buy any of that for one second. Very good players are wanted no matter what. First Albert is staying in St. Louis, second Fielder is going to get sick money that only about 3-4 teams can afford and Berkman is a aging player. Second, fans go to the game because the team is good, the age of "following" players is gone since players move so much. The Reds could trade Votto tomorrow and yes there would be some outcry, but if they won and got into the playoffs and such, people wouldn't care. Winning sells tickets, players not so much unless you are an elite player which Votto isn't.

R_Webb18
07-26-2011, 05:46 PM
no matter if they should happen it won't
/thread

brm7675
07-26-2011, 05:55 PM
no matter if they should happen it won't
/thread

Then whomever the GM is should be fired. You don't let players walk you get something for them. Votto has an X value and you need to replace that value with something and smart GM's do.

R_Webb18
07-26-2011, 06:02 PM
Then whomever the GM is should be fired. You don't let players walk you get something for them. Votto has an X value and you need to replace that value with something and smart GM's do.

im talking this yr and most likley next

btw im guessing the gms for cardinals and brewers are gone!

mroby85
07-26-2011, 06:16 PM
I would say the odds of resigning him are around 30-40% and why in the world would you let him walk? Talk about bad baseball...

How was this 30-40% calculated? Also, what is the percentage the player(s) they trade him for end up as good as he is, or even close? That would help determine whether it was worth the 60-70% risk of keepin him the last year of his contract, although i'm not sure where those numbers came from, lol.

The DARK
07-26-2011, 06:21 PM
unless you are an elite player which Votto isn't.

Don't believe that for a second. Votto is just entering his prime and even in a down year is having a season amongst the top 5 at his position, the most offensively potent in the league. What's more, he's done it all without a regular cleanup hitter. His services should be held in higher regard than everyone in baseball not named Pujols and Fielder, who just happen to be on the market this season. Somebody will overpay for Votto if we're not in contention next year and decide to sell, whereas this year he won't get close to the value that we'll be looking for. Meanwhile, we get to keep him for the pennant race.

frenchlickgolf
07-26-2011, 06:34 PM
Most idiotic thing I've ever heard of...no way im trAding votto..we can use him for two more years then trade him at the deadline.let yonder prep for first base in Louisville..it won't hurt cozart never played a day in MLB then came up flashed his glove n his bat

defender
07-26-2011, 07:18 PM
Votto's overall production has been down this year and he has been in a slump recently. Don't let the last few days fool you, Votto is an elite player.

brm7675
07-26-2011, 07:29 PM
Most idiotic thing I've ever heard of...no way im trAding votto..we can use him for two more years then trade him at the deadline.let yonder prep for first base in Louisville..it won't hurt cozart never played a day in MLB then came up flashed his glove n his bat

So you are going to just let Yonder waste away in AAA for another 2 years? Why? Again if you can multiple players who can help, bring up Yonder who will produce, why wouldn't you consider it. Votto is a good player, he is not untradeable people.

brm7675
07-26-2011, 07:30 PM
Votto's overall production has been down this year and he has been in a slump recently. Don't let the last few days fool you, Votto is an elite player.

And again with that "elite" player how far did we go last year? How are we doing this year with this elite player?

R_Webb18
07-26-2011, 07:45 PM
And again with that "elite" player how far did we go last year? How are we doing this year with this elite player?

this is not basketball you need more than 1 player. but yes votto does help.

webbbj
07-26-2011, 08:41 PM
if we could get jimenez id trade votto and Grandal for him straight up

brm7675
07-26-2011, 08:52 PM
if we could get jimenez id trade votto and Grandal for him straight up

Rocks wouldn't do that deal, they know they would lose Votto in a season and a half.

The DARK
07-26-2011, 09:51 PM
Rocks wouldn't do that deal, they know they would lose Votto in a season and a half.

Um, you mean 2 1/2? He's signed through 2013. So is Jiminez.

SwingKing01
07-27-2011, 12:54 AM
if we could get jimenez id trade votto and Grandal for him straight up

So Jimenez gives us a better chance to win that Votto??? :confused:

bounty37h
07-27-2011, 03:16 PM
if we could get jimenez id trade votto and Grandal for him straight up

It is funny how we all look at players and what we think-and I am not saying either is wrong or right- but in this instance I wouldnt trade Votto alone for Jimenez, let alone add another player.

R_Webb18
07-27-2011, 03:19 PM
It is funny how we all look at players and what we think-and I am not saying either is wrong or right- but in this instance I wouldnt trade Votto alone for Jimenez, let alone add another player.

he was joking fyi

Roush's socks
07-27-2011, 04:47 PM
I guess anything is possible, but why would the Reds trade Votto for anything less than an MVP type player? He still has two years left on his contract, so the time to do it would be next year at this time, IF the Reds are out of contention. It is ALWAYS a bad idea to trade away elite talent for less than equal value. Without Votto this team doesn't have a single hitter who really strikes fear into opponents. He would have even better stats if he had a legit cleanup hitter behind him.

brm7675
07-27-2011, 04:52 PM
I guess anything is possible, but why would the Reds trade Votto for anything less than an MVP type player? He still has two years left on his contract, so the time to do it would be next year at this time, IF the Reds are out of contention. It is ALWAYS a bad idea to trade away elite talent for less than equal value. Without Votto this team doesn't have a single hitter who really strikes fear into opponents. He would have even better stats if he had a legit cleanup hitter behind him.

You trade Votto because he can bring you probably 2-3 quality players in return, you put Yonder at 1st and your overall offense doesn't have a huge drop and you address other needs. You have Yonder under contract for how long? Yonder could probably give you 70-80% of the production Votto does and I kinda bet he would play a little better defense at first. Again you don't deal him for nothing, but again I think some here overvalue him and what 1 player can do for a team game like baseball.

abish1572
07-27-2011, 05:05 PM
You trade Votto because he can bring you probably 2-3 quality players in return, you put Yonder at 1st and your overall offense doesn't have a huge drop and you address other needs. You have Yonder under contract for how long? Yonder could probably give you 70-80% of the production Votto does and I kinda bet he would play a little better defense at first. Again you don't deal him for nothing, but again I think some here overvalue him and what 1 player can do for a team game like baseball.

couldnt have said any better myself bro

R_Webb18
07-27-2011, 05:09 PM
maybe we should trade

votto
bruce
bp
stubbs
rolen
alonzo
cueto
rolen
leake
baily
ect ect ect

get 20-30 minor l players and run the show in 3 yrs

mroby85
07-27-2011, 05:30 PM
maybe we should trade

votto
bruce
bp
stubbs
rolen
alonzo
cueto
rolen
leake
baily
ect ect ect

get 20-30 minor l players and run the show in 3 yrs

no, those guys aren't good enough yet! Wait until they get better and become one of the best players in the league, then trade them! That is how a winner is built! lol

bounty37h
07-27-2011, 05:32 PM
he was joking fyi

Ah, thanks for the FYI, I didn't catch that-how did you (I confess I gave up on a lot of this thread-lol)?

brm7675
07-27-2011, 05:32 PM
How many WS titles, playoff runs did the Cubbies make with HOF SS/1st basemen Ernie Banks in the 60's?

R_Webb18
07-27-2011, 05:33 PM
Ah, thanks for the FYI, I didn't catch that-how did you (I confess I gave up on a lot of this thread-lol)?

i know him.

Roush's socks
07-27-2011, 06:43 PM
You trade Votto because he can bring you probably 2-3 quality players in return, you put Yonder at 1st and your overall offense doesn't have a huge drop and you address other needs. You have Yonder under contract for how long? Yonder could probably give you 70-80% of the production Votto does and I kinda bet he would play a little better defense at first. Again you don't deal him for nothing, but again I think some here overvalue him and what 1 player can do for a team game like baseball.

There is a long way to go between a talented prospect like Alonso and the NL MVP Votto. You can't be so sure he would give "70-80% of Votto's offense with a better glove." A lot of Redzoners were sure that Janish was going to be an OK hitter if given a chance to play every day.

How often do you see contending teams that just won the division trade away a reigning MVP player in the middle of a pennant race for prospects? Has that ever happened? I guess you guys know better than every GM in all of baseball history.

brm7675
07-27-2011, 06:48 PM
There is a long way to go between a talented prospect like Alonso and the NL MVP Votto. You can't be so sure he would give "70-80% of Votto's offense with a better glove." A lot of Redzoners were sure that Janish was going to be an OK hitter if given a chance to play every day.

How often do you see contending teams that just won the division trade away a reigning MVP player in the middle of a pennant race for prospects? Has that ever happened? I guess you guys know better than every GM in all of baseball history.

I said the Reds should consider it, not do it. If the Reds could reap some quality players in return why wouldn't you? For an example lets say Houston would give you Pence, Wandy and their No. 2 prospect for Votto straight up....are you saying you would not consider it?

markymark69
07-27-2011, 07:03 PM
maybe we should trade

votto
bruce
bp
stubbs
rolen
alonzo
cueto
rolen
leake
baily
ect ect ect

get 20-30 minor l players and run the show in 3 yrs

Exactly - because we all know that young players are the key - those 20-30 players will all be future HOF's once they get into the Reds system.

tkemmerer14
07-27-2011, 07:14 PM
How many WS titles, playoff runs did the Cubbies make with HOF SS/1st basemen Ernie Banks in the 60's?

If we have to start comparing ourselves to the cubs we're in big trouble

brm7675
07-27-2011, 07:24 PM
Exactly - because we all know that young players are the key - those 20-30 players will all be future HOF's once they get into the Reds system.

Compared to whom they are replacing there sure as heck a better shot...