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View Full Version : Looks like Colby Rasmus is headed to Toronto



5TimeWSChamps
07-27-2011, 12:48 PM
Jason Frasor to Chicago
Edwin Jackson to St Louis

Then some other pieces

brm7675
07-27-2011, 12:53 PM
Jason Frasor to Chicago
Edwin Jackson to St Louis

Then some other pieces

All the cards get is Edwin Jackson? Really? Don't see that being enough to put them over the top. Heck wonder if they would take the Dtrain for Colby?

5TimeWSChamps
07-27-2011, 12:54 PM
There's some other pieces, but those haven't really come out yet

mroby85
07-27-2011, 01:01 PM
Buster_ESPNBuster Olney





Zach Stewart and Jason Frasor go from CWS for Edwin Jackson and Mark Teahen.

5TimeWSChamps
07-27-2011, 01:02 PM
Looks like it's 2 separate 2 team deals.

Edwin to Toronto
Frasor to Chicago

For now...

mroby85
07-27-2011, 01:18 PM
Looks like it's 2 separate 2 team deals.

Edwin to Toronto
Frasor to Chicago

For now...

Source: No cash in #BlueJays-#WhiteSox trade. Cash holdup I reported earlier must be on Jays-#Cardinals end. #tradedeadline #MLB

TheBigLebowski
07-27-2011, 01:41 PM
On the surface, if this does indeed come to pass, it looks like the Cards may have been fleeced. However, Edwin Jackson does have good stuff, and we've all seen what Duncan can do with guys like that...reference Brad Penny and Kyle Lohse, among a multitude of others.

5TimeWSChamps
07-27-2011, 01:42 PM
He's gonna be a FA after this year anyways IIRC

5TimeWSChamps
07-27-2011, 01:45 PM
Jackson/Rzepczynski/Dotel for Rasmus

At the end of the year, St Louis ends up with a LH Reliever and Draft pick for Rasmus

TheBigLebowski
07-27-2011, 01:47 PM
Jackson/Rzepczynski/Dotel for Rasmus

At the end of the year, St Louis ends up with a LH Reliever and Draft pick for Rasmus

But they get Jackson and Dotel for this entire season and therefore possibly a pennant or more to go along with it. To dismiss this as a bad deal simply because of what it might leave them with next season is erroneous. Besides, it might not cost them much to retain Jackson if they choose to do so. I think this makes STL a lot better this year.

5TimeWSChamps
07-27-2011, 01:52 PM
This year sure...but this isn't a deal that's going to get them "over the hump" in the NL Central. Jackson is effectively wild, but with Berkman out now, the Cards offense is going to be even worse now

TheBigLebowski
07-27-2011, 01:53 PM
This year sure...but this isn't a deal that's going to get them "over the hump" in the NL Central. Jackson is effectively wild, but with Berkman out now, the Cards offense is going to be even worse now

The Cards must know something about Berkman the rest of us don't; otherwise, I agree this deal makes no sense whatsoever. Maybe Berk has access to the same HGH as King Albert.

brm7675
07-27-2011, 02:08 PM
Don't see this deal as anything that makes them that "much" better, to me they have a long way to go to be good enough to really compete for a WS.

mroby85
07-27-2011, 02:11 PM
The trade: Colby Rasmus, Trever Miller, Brian Tallet and P.J. Walters for Jackson, Marc Rzepczynski, Dotel and Corey Patterson.#trades

TheBigLebowski
07-27-2011, 02:15 PM
Did I read that right? Corey Patterson is now a Card???? How is Dusty going to explain this to his daughter??

mroby85
07-27-2011, 02:21 PM
Did I read that right? Corey Patterson is now a Card???? How is Dusty going to explain this to his daughter??

Yep, thats right lol.

Razzle
07-27-2011, 02:23 PM
Kill me. Or John Mozeliak. Either work.

bounty37h
07-27-2011, 02:29 PM
Kill me. Or John Mozeliak. Either work.

Lets leave John alone on this one ;)

Razzle
07-27-2011, 02:40 PM
Lets leave John alone on this one ;)

Haha. I am about out of energy with this front office/manager. I'm not even sure if Mozeliak is any more a general manager than you or I are. If I hadn't rooted my entire life for this organization, I'd be done. The game of baseball has easily passed LaRussa by and any doubts that I had on Mozeliak (few) before this deal are done. He's the worst GM in all of baseball, imo. This deal combined with the Lohse deal, trading Ryan Ludwick in a pennant race, and not finding anyone to replace our terrible middle infield as opposed to overpaying to fix the left side of our bullpen have sealed his fate to me.

We could have simply made a move that would've gone a long way towards fixing our problems by putting Lance Lynn in the rotation and moving McClellan to the pen. So essentially this trade ends up to me being Rasmus for a mediocre LOOGY and an absolutely terrible CF (Patterson).

I'm stunned.

LeDoux
07-27-2011, 02:54 PM
So who is going to be the new whipping boy of the Cards with Ryan and Rasmus gone? I am hoping its David Freese. Its time TLR starts talking about his attitude problems.

Old NDN
07-27-2011, 03:48 PM
It's easy to set back and pick apart this move. But, I applaud the Cards for trying to improve their team. They are/were willing to roll the dice with Berkman, while we sat back and laughed about him being washed up. They obtained Matt Holliday for who?? I'm not a Cards fan but I admire their willingness to gamble on a chance to win. Whatever shortcomings we THINK will happen to them has translated into winning seasons pretty regularly. The objective is to win the NL Central. They're in first. They get bullpen help in Dotel, a starter in Jackson, and backup OF in Patterson... and they get rid of Rasmus, who apparently, isn't their kind of player. All the while, we Reds fans sit and wait.....

R_Webb18
07-27-2011, 03:51 PM
It's easy to set back and pick apart this move. But, I applaud the Cards for trying to improve their team. They are/were willing to roll the dice with Berkman, while we sat back and laughed about him being washed up. They obtained Matt Holliday for who?? I'm not a Cards fan but I admire their willingness to gamble on a chance to win. Whatever shortcomings we THINK will happen to them has translated into winning seasons pretty regularly. The objective is to win the NL Central. They're in first. They get bullpen help in Dotel, a starter in Jackson, and backup OF in Patterson... and they get rid of Rasmus, who apparently, isn't their kind of player. All the while, we Reds fans sit and wait.....

yea lets just make a move 2 say we made a move.

Razzle
07-27-2011, 03:53 PM
It's easy to set back and pick apart this move. But, I applaud the Cards for trying to improve their team. They are/were willing to roll the dice with Berkman, while we sat back and laughed about him being washed up. They obtained Matt Holliday for who?? I'm not a Cards fan but I admire their willingness to gamble on a chance to win. Whatever shortcomings we THINK will happen to them has translated into winning seasons pretty regularly. The objective is to win the NL Central. They're in first. They get bullpen help in Dotel, a starter in Jackson, and backup OF in Patterson... and they get rid of Rasmus, who apparently, isn't their kind of player. All the while, we Reds fans sit and wait.....

You don't mortgage the future for a chance to win a crappy division and likely get beat by the Phillies in the first round. The Cardinals likely got marginally better with this trade this year. They got significantly worse in the next few years. With Pujols/Berkman/Carpenter uncertain for next year, losing a cost controlled player is inexcusable.

My frustration with the trade isn't that they traded Rasmus, but instead that they sold ridiculously low on him.

5TimeWSChamps
07-27-2011, 04:51 PM
I'd like to think the Reds could have offered something comparable without giving up anyone huge other than Travis Wood

10xWSChamps
07-27-2011, 05:51 PM
This trade helps the bullpen a ton. It went from bad to fairly good. We get rid of Miller who was awful this year and Tallet who was not very good as well. Dollet is another nice reliever who is a major upgrade over the bullpen pieces we traded away (they were effectively just cash/roster dumps).

We move McClellan out of the rotation (he just does not have the arm to throw 100+ pitches) and put Jackson in there. That significantly upgrades the rotation and bullpen.

Corey Patterson is nice depth which will be needed since obviously Jon Jay becomes the starting CFer.

For the moment, Jon Jay is playing much better baseball then Colby.

As for Colby, it sucks to lose him. The talent is still there. Will he be able to put it together outside of the pressure cooker in St Louis? He and his father had problems handling the expectations here.

Colby looked like he could be a superstar when he first came up 2 years ago when he was 22 years old. But since then he's gotten worse. Are scouts catching up to him or is it all mental? I think it has to be a combo of both.

This trade significantly upgrades the Cardinals. It totally re-makes our bullpen into something much better and upgrades the rotation too. The lineup and defense has also been upgraded by Jon Jay getting all the playing time over Rasmus. As much as I love Colby's talent, he was hurting the team this year.

Maybe this turns out like the JD Drew for Adam Wainwright deal or Brett Wallace for Matt Holliday. Or maybe it turns out like Dan Haren for Mark Mulder.

10xWSChamps
07-27-2011, 05:53 PM
And Buster Olney said that with 3 or 4 more wins Edwin Jackson turns into a type A free agent, which would mean we'd get two first round pick if we lose him. Hopefully that happens...

brm7675
07-27-2011, 05:55 PM
And Buster Olney said that with 3 or 4 more wins Edwin Jackson turns into a type A free agent, which would mean we'd get two first round pick if we lose him. Hopefully that happens...

To me you make yourself better either for a run at a world series this season or for long term and I don't see this deal doing either. No way the cards are better long term and I don't see them even at the level of the Braves with this deal. Right now Giants and Phils still best team and Cards maybe 5th best team in the NL.

10xWSChamps
07-27-2011, 06:06 PM
The Cardinals aren't NL WS favorites, that's for sure. But 5th best NL team? I think we are better then that. I agree that a deep run into the playoffs is needed and I think we are talented enough to do that.

Rzepczynski is the only long term star piece we have received. He's an exciting young bullpen arm, but an exciting young CFer beats that tenfold.

The bullpen went from bad to good in one trade. Our three worst bullpen arms are gone and replaced by three good to very good bullpen arms. Right now we are sitting at 21st lowest bullpen ERA and tied for tied most bullpen losses (19). Certainly Ryan Franklin put his own nice dent in that but he is gone too.

The rotation, lineup and defense also are upgraded. Too bad Wainwright is out or that rotation would be deadly with this trade

Also I think it should be pointed out that Colby is no sure thing. Something has went majority wrong with Colby's development. He is doing very poorly at the plate. Suddenly his defense was very bad too, he took poor routes to balls and has had a noodle arm for a year and a half. His speed and occasional power was all that we've seen for two years from his supposed 5 tools.

With that said, this trade does make me anxious. But it makes the Cards a lot better team this year. A run at the WS would make it all worth it even if Colby becomes a star.

brm7675
07-27-2011, 06:17 PM
The Cardinals aren't NL WS favorites, that's for sure. But 5th best NL team? I think we are better then that. I agree that a deep run into the playoffs is needed and I think we are talented enough to do that.

Rzepczynski is the only long term star piece we have received. He's an exciting young bullpen arm, but an exciting young CFer beats that tenfold.

The bullpen went from bad to good in one trade. Our three worst bullpen arms are gone and replaced by three good to very good bullpen arms. Right now we are sitting at 21st lowest bullpen ERA and tied for tied most bullpen losses (19). Certainly Ryan Franklin put his own nice dent in that but he is gone too.

The rotation, lineup and defense also are upgraded. Too bad Wainwright is out or that rotation would be deadly with this trade

Also I think it should be pointed out that Colby is no sure thing. Something has went majority wrong with Colby's development. He is doing very poorly at the plate. Suddenly his defense was very bad too, he took poor routes to balls and has had a noodle arm for a year and a half. His speed and occasional power was all that we've seen for two years from his supposed 5 tools.

With that said, this trade does make me anxious. But it makes the Cards a lot better team this year. A run at the WS would make it all worth it even if Colby becomes a star.

NL Rankings:

Phils
Giants
Braves
Brewers
Cards

brm7675
07-27-2011, 06:18 PM
The Cardinals aren't NL WS favorites, that's for sure. But 5th best NL team? I think we are better then that. I agree that a deep run into the playoffs is needed and I think we are talented enough to do that.

Rzepczynski is the only long term star piece we have received. He's an exciting young bullpen arm, but an exciting young CFer beats that tenfold.

The bullpen went from bad to good in one trade. Our three worst bullpen arms are gone and replaced by three good to very good bullpen arms. Right now we are sitting at 21st lowest bullpen ERA and tied for tied most bullpen losses (19). Certainly Ryan Franklin put his own nice dent in that but he is gone too.

The rotation, lineup and defense also are upgraded. Too bad Wainwright is out or that rotation would be deadly with this trade

Also I think it should be pointed out that Colby is no sure thing. Something has went majority wrong with Colby's development. He is doing very poorly at the plate. Suddenly his defense was very bad too, he took poor routes to balls and has had a noodle arm for a year and a half. His speed and occasional power was all that we've seen for two years from his supposed 5 tools.

With that said, this trade does make me anxious. But it makes the Cards a lot better team this year. A run at the WS would make it all worth it even if Colby becomes a star.

So who takes his spot in the field?

cardszone
07-27-2011, 06:22 PM
"So who takes his spot in the field?"

Jon Jay!

brm7675
07-27-2011, 06:30 PM
"So who takes his spot in the field?"

Jon Jay!

And your backup outfield is now whom?

The DARK
07-27-2011, 06:37 PM
"So who takes his spot in the field?"

Jon Jay!

Understandable, but does that mean you resign Berkman after this year, trusting that he will have an equivalent season at an even higher price? The way I see it, after this season the cards are left with a new LOOGY, a draft pick or two, and a heavily depleted outfield.

The DARK
07-27-2011, 06:38 PM
And your backup outfield is now whom?

Corey Patterson :lol:

brm7675
07-27-2011, 06:51 PM
Corey Patterson :lol:

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Razzle
07-28-2011, 03:34 AM
This trade helps the bullpen a ton. It went from bad to fairly good. We get rid of Miller who was awful this year and Tallet who was not very good as well. Dollet is another nice reliever who is a major upgrade over the bullpen pieces we traded away (they were effectively just cash/roster dumps).

The bullpen wasn't bad. The left handed side of the bullpen was terrible, but that was it. Had they simply moved Lynn to the rotation and used McClellan primarily against tough lefties you would have a cheap in house fix and still have your 25 year old cost controlled centerfielder. Dotel isn't an upgrade over what we have from the right side and what happens when Eduardo Sanchez returns. You already have a pen of Salas, Boggs, Motte, McClellan, Dotel, Rzepczynski, and Lynn. Valdez is likely the odd man out and that's a seven man pen as it is. When Sanchez returns who goes to the minors?


We move McClellan out of the rotation (he just does not have the arm to throw 100+ pitches) and put Jackson in there. That significantly upgrades the rotation and bullpen.

Again an upgrade could've been made by simply putting Lynn into the rotation. It's not likely as good of an upgrade as Jackson is, but you also don't have to give up anything to do it.


Corey Patterson is nice depth which will be needed since obviously Jon Jay becomes the starting CFer.

Corey Patterson is terrible. Having a bad player as depth is not a coup.


For the moment, Jon Jay is playing much better baseball then Colby.

He's also propped up by an unsustainable BABIP and likely unsustainable HR/FB rate. And Colby has been mired in a horrible slump for the past few months. And their values STILL aren't that far apart.


As for Colby, it sucks to lose him. The talent is still there. Will he be able to put it together outside of the pressure cooker in St Louis? He and his father had problems handling the expectations here.

Colby looked like he could be a superstar when he first came up 2 years ago when he was 22 years old. But since then he's gotten worse. Are scouts catching up to him or is it all mental? I think it has to be a combo of both.

No qualms here. Colby/Tony Rasmus had issues and I was never against trading Colby Rasmus, however this return is inexcusable to trade him for.


This trade significantly upgrades the Cardinals. It totally re-makes our bullpen into something much better and upgrades the rotation too. The lineup and defense has also been upgraded by Jon Jay getting all the playing time over Rasmus. As much as I love Colby's talent, he was hurting the team this year.

Jon Jay is not a good fielder either. His route on Tuesday night on that double in left field was one of the worst routes I've ever seen an outfielder make. For a guy his size he is incredibly slow. I would be willing to bet anyone that from this point on that Rasmus will have a better season from this point on than Jay will.


Maybe this turns out like the JD Drew for Adam Wainwright deal or Brett Wallace for Matt Holliday. Or maybe it turns out like Dan Haren for Mark Mulder.

At the time of the trades, this is easily the worst of those four deals and to me that is the only way you should judge trades. You don't know what these guys are going to do, but we sold incredibly low on Rasmus while we had no rush to do so.

Vottomatic
07-28-2011, 08:40 AM
This is a shoulder shrug trade. Doesn't make that much of a difference. The Central is a crappy division, worst in baseball.........and unless a team was ahead of the Central pack by like 8 or 10 games, I wouldn't be that impressed if the winner is in a logjam at the top winning it by only a couple of games.

In other words, the Central contenders are all weak. This trade doesn't do much to make me think the Cards are going to win it outright now.

Magdal
07-28-2011, 01:41 PM
And your backup outfield is now whom?Shumacher. He played in RF last nite and was exellent. He is after all, an outfirlder. This is bad news for the Central as he sucked at 2B.

With the addition of those relievers and Jay having the CF job and the loss of Ricky Weeks to the DL, St. Louis is now the front runner in my mind over Mil.

And I will state it now: there is a good chance that Wainwright will teturn in Sept....he wants to come back NOW. His recovery is way ahead of schedule.