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Oxilon
07-28-2011, 09:53 PM
Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis still leading the charge, rookie offensive coordinator, rookie quarterback, very questionable offensive line, and we just lost our best defensive player -- and shortened preparation time too boot! This has the makings of 2002 all over again...

WVRed
07-28-2011, 10:00 PM
Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis still leading the charge, rookie offensive coordinator, rookie quarterback, very questionable offensive line, and we just lost our best defensive player -- and shortened preparation time too boot! This has the makings of 2002 all over again...

Carolina Panthers last season, mirror image.

The only saving grace might be the shortened preparation time. You mention the Bengals, but all 32 teams will suffer. This could early on be the sloppiest and most injury ridden season in NFL history as a result of the lockout.

My prediction is we end up getting the no 1 overall pick in the draft next season. We might be lucky to win one or two games, but we will be in prime position to take Andrew Luck. Andy Dalton will be this years Jimmy Clausen.

TeamSelig
07-28-2011, 10:02 PM
Lets do a fire sale

CTA513
07-28-2011, 10:02 PM
Likely bad enough to be able to draft Andrew Luck and then pass on him.

TeamSelig
07-28-2011, 10:03 PM
Likely bad enough to be able to draft Andrew Luck and then pass on him.

We'll draft a WR over Luck

Redhook
07-28-2011, 10:44 PM
3 wins tops. Rinse. Repeat.

Newport Red
07-28-2011, 10:47 PM
I see a Usain Bolt like sprint to 300 losses.

Benihana
07-29-2011, 12:22 AM
Likely bad enough to be able to draft Andrew Luck and then pass on him.

Well said

cincrazy
07-29-2011, 12:25 AM
If the Bengals were playing last year's schedule this year, there's a decent chance they'd go winless.

RiverRat13
07-29-2011, 12:30 AM
Likely bad enough to be able to draft Andrew Luck and then pass on him.

Nah. They'll seemingly have Luck wrapped up and then go and win the last two meaningless games to slide to the 2nd or 3rd pick.

Slyder
07-29-2011, 03:22 AM
Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis still leading the charge, rookie offensive coordinator, rookie quarterback, very questionable offensive line, and we just lost our best defensive player -- and shortened preparation time too boot! This has the makings of 2002 all over again...

Just Picture NYC and the Commissioner stepping up to the mic and saying "Welcome to the 2012 NFL Draft, the Cincinnati Bengals are on the clock"...

Couple minutes later:
"The Cincinnati Bengals select Quarterback Andrew Luck from Stanford University".

savafan
07-29-2011, 03:47 AM
Just Picture NYC and the Commissioner stepping up to the mic and saying "Welcome to the 2012 NFL Draft, the Cincinnati Bengals are on the clock"...

Couple minutes later:
"The Cincinnati Bengals select Quarterback Andrew Luck from Stanford University".

Why would Luck, or anyone really, want to play for Mike Brown? If I was him, I'd demand my agent attempt some Eli Manning negotiating tactics. I think a career with the Toronto Argonauts would be more satisfying than one in orange and black.

wolfboy
07-29-2011, 12:00 PM
Carolina Panthers last season, mirror image.

Carolina had an established running back and wide receiver.

MWM
07-29-2011, 12:42 PM
2-14. They are going to be as bad as some of the awful teams of the late 90s and early 2000s. this team has the potential to go 0-16

izzy's dad
07-29-2011, 12:50 PM
The Bengals will be pretty bad this year, but they are playing the NFC west this year. Could lead to a few lucky wins. I can see a 5-11 season. I am banking on another top ten pick.

TheBigLebowski
07-29-2011, 01:10 PM
Even if we're bad enough to earn the #1 overall pick, Luck will pull an Eli Manning on us anyway. Besides, I think Dalton's a keeper and the need for Luck will probably not be there. As an aside, I have a feeling Luck's stock is going to drop this year.

If we re-sign Benson and pick up a nice OL via FA (we have to spend some money somewhere now - it's required) and Dalton/Gradkowski are serviceable, our offense should be league-average. I'm interested to see the transition from Brat to Gruden...did I say interested? I meant "thrilled." Defensively, the secondary is going to be damaged with the loss of JJoe, but if we can grab Clements in FA and those young guys on the line continue to develop, our defense could be good. Not great, but good.

However, even if Benson is brought back, he's likely facing a personal conduct suspension, as is Adam Jones.

I think this team is staring 4-5 wins squarely in the face. A top 10 pick. Blah.

WVRed
07-29-2011, 02:49 PM
Carolina had an established running back and wide receiver.

Yet finished with the worst record in the league and a coaching change.

I'll concede the running backs, but Steve Smith is on the downside of his career. Carolina was even discussed as a possibility for AJ Green.

The comparison is more with Jimmy Clausen and Andy Dalton. Both capable college QBs who draft stock slipped (Clausen worse than Dalton), but the teams finished worse off and took a top flight QB the next year. Carolina with Cam Newton, the Bengals IMO will be either Luck or Barkley.

wolfboy
07-29-2011, 03:16 PM
Yet finished with the worst record in the league and a coaching change.

I'll concede the running backs, but Steve Smith is on the downside of his career. Carolina was even discussed as a possibility for AJ Green.

The comparison is more with Jimmy Clausen and Andy Dalton. Both capable college QBs who draft stock slipped (Clausen worse than Dalton), but the teams finished worse off and took a top flight QB the next year. Carolina with Cam Newton, the Bengals IMO will be either Luck or Barkley.

I don't disagree with the Carolina comparison, except that I think the Bengals are in a worse position.

Redsfaithful
07-29-2011, 03:30 PM
I think they could win anywhere from 0-5 games. I will probably still watch because I'm an idiot when it comes to the Bengals.

gonelong
07-29-2011, 03:34 PM
Bad enough that they have taken me from an 11 year old that tried to cancel his Birthday party so that he could watch the Bengals in the Super Bowl to a 41 year old that may not watch a game all season.

GL

/stupid Bengals
//Go Bucks!
///Watched them on the 8" B&W TV at the roller-rink.

Redsfaithful
07-29-2011, 04:02 PM
Joe Reedy just tweeted that the salary floor doesn't start until 2013, so I think that kind of explains everything when it comes to Joseph. The next two years are going to be some of the cheapest Bengal teams ever I imagine.

TheBigLebowski
07-29-2011, 05:17 PM
Joe Reedy just tweeted that the salary floor doesn't start until 2013, so I think that kind of explains everything when it comes to Joseph. The next two years are going to be some of the cheapest Bengal teams ever I imagine.

No, it's in place for 2011 and 2012. Just changes slightly in 2013. So, we have to meet it, but we have until the end of the year.

Redsfaithful
07-29-2011, 05:31 PM
No, it's in place for 2011 and 2012. Just changes slightly in 2013. So, we have to meet it, but we have until the end of the year.

That's what I've heard previously, but Reedy is saying that's wrong.

TheBigLebowski
07-29-2011, 06:05 PM
Everything I've read stipulates it's in place immediately. Maybe (gasp) Reedy is wrong here? I hope he is.

Newport Red
07-29-2011, 06:21 PM
No, it's in place for 2011 and 2012. Just changes slightly in 2013. So, we have to meet it, but we have until the end of the year.

So, they can go 4 and 12 again and everybody will get a big bonus check.

Redsfaithful
07-29-2011, 06:31 PM
Everything I've read stipulates it's in place immediately. Maybe (gasp) Reedy is wrong here? I hope he is.

I hope so too. I read somewhere else this info was first reported by John Clayton, but I can't find it on ESPN's site, so I'm not really sure.

cincrazy
07-29-2011, 07:04 PM
I hope so too. I read somewhere else this info was first reported by John Clayton, but I can't find it on ESPN's site, so I'm not really sure.

The Common Man and the Torg reported that they contacted the NFL offices, who told them that in 2011 the team's need to spend 99% of their available cap space.

Oxilon
07-29-2011, 07:28 PM
After all the salary shredding the Bengals have done (Palmer, Ocho, Odom, JJ), they are now $49 million under the cap. Does Mike Brown have some secret plan he's not telling us about?

tomred
07-29-2011, 07:48 PM
yes he is going to pay the national debt off by himself

Redsfaithful
07-29-2011, 07:48 PM
The Common Man and the Torg reported that they contacted the NFL offices, who told them that in 2011 the team's need to spend 99% of their available cap space.

That's league wide, not for individual teams.

http://twitter.com/#!/joereedy/status/97017895825063937


Clearing up salary cap stuff -- In 2011-12, there is a 99 percent cash spent for the entire league. No minimums for individual teams ...

http://twitter.com/#!/joereedy/status/97018117175255040


The floor and minimum cash spends for each team start in 2013

I want this to be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's not, mostly because I think it explains what the Bengals are doing.

Redhook
07-29-2011, 10:50 PM
In my mind, I just can't picture any scenario where this team wins more than 3 games. This season will set the fan base back 5 years. Blackouts galore!

BoydsOfSummer
07-30-2011, 07:32 AM
In my mind, I just can't picture any scenario where this team wins more than 3 games. This season will set the fan base back 5 years. Blackouts galore!


Music to my ears. Blackouts mean more chances for us Browns fans to watch more games from the comfort of our own homes. :thumbup:

Redsfaithful
07-30-2011, 09:13 AM
They might sell out the Pittsburgh and Cleveland games. Tough to see any others selling out, and those are maybes.

Mario-Rijo
07-30-2011, 09:44 AM
That's league wide, not for individual teams.

http://twitter.com/#!/joereedy/status/97017895825063937



http://twitter.com/#!/joereedy/status/97018117175255040



I want this to be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's not, mostly because I think it explains what the Bengals are doing.

This is correct, league wide the cash spent has to be 99% of the salary cap of 120 million and some change over '11 & '12 (I take this last part to mean between '11 and '12, because in '12 season this drops to 95% of the cap). And because it's a soft cap (meaning some teams can spend up to 126 million and change due to some options they have for bonuses and what not) some teams like the Bengals don't have to spend as much because most others will spend at or over it. In '13 it goes team to team at 89%. That is it in a nutshell.

This is a tough pill for me to swallow right now.

Mario-Rijo
07-30-2011, 09:45 AM
Music to my ears. Blackouts mean more chances for us Browns fans to watch more games from the comfort of our own homes. :thumbup:

How does a guy from Hamilton end up a Browns fan? :confused:

Todd Gack
07-30-2011, 10:03 AM
Likely bad enough to be able to draft Andrew Luck and then pass on him.

I think Luck and his father are intelligent enough to tell the Bengals to kick rocks.

bucksfan2
07-30-2011, 12:17 PM
I think Luck and his father are intelligent enough to tell the Bengals to kick rocks.

How many times has this happened in the draft? The two that I can remember are Eli and Elway 20 odd years ago. It doesn't happen often and I doubt Luck does that. As bad as the Bengals are Palmer won and had his chances to win here. IMO Palmer wasn't as successful as he wanted to be more because of him than what surrounded him.

SunDeck
07-30-2011, 12:37 PM
How does a guy from Hamilton end up a Browns fan? :confused:

I don't know, Mike Brown, maybe?

TheBigLebowski
07-30-2011, 12:51 PM
If that deal about the basement is true, that it need only be met by the teams collectively, we are officially screwed. I will give this team one more year and then I'm moving on. I am somewhat encouraged to read that Joseph himself said we made a very competitive offer but just chose Houston because it offered a better chance to win now, but if we do nothing this off season but rearrange the chairs on the titanic, (Lutui, Howard, etc), then I am moving on. I have Jacksonville and Tampa Bay within 2 hours of me. Life's too short to wait on this trainwreck to fix itself.

KoryMac5
07-30-2011, 04:10 PM
Bengals will be Carolina bad this season! No running game, rookie QB, patch work offensive line, mediocre defense, all in all a big pile of suck!

Last year I vowed not to root for the Bengals and to be a fan of good football. So glad Mike Brown reinforced my decision to stay away

tomred
07-30-2011, 04:43 PM
I think you guys are not true Bengal fans I for one have allready brought my paper bag to wear during the games I think everyone should support the Bengalsthis way

Eric_the_Red
07-30-2011, 04:50 PM
I think you guys are not true Bengal fans I for one have allready brought my paper bag to wear during the games I think everyone should support the Bengalsthis way

Why would you support the Bengals in any way? The organization doesn't care for you or any fan one iota, except to get your money.

LoganBuck
07-30-2011, 04:53 PM
I think you guys are not true Bengal fans I for one have allready brought my paper bag to wear during the games I think everyone should support the Bengalsthis way

This.

My oldest asked for a Bengals jersey last year for Christmas. The had Owens, Ochocinco, Benson, and Palmer. I looked at it like they had a selfish donkey, a self promoting donkey, a guy with rage issues, and a washed up QB.

I might concede the point and get him an AJ Green jersey this year. I love that guy.

Redsfaithful
07-30-2011, 05:14 PM
I've um heard that there are websites where you can get cheap jerseys that might be less than legit, but look pretty much identical.

http://yukijersey.com/en/index.asp

A friend of mine wouldn't have normally considered buying from a non-legit source like that normally, but it's an alternative to giving Brown money.

cincrazy
07-31-2011, 12:45 AM
Mike Brown doesn't care about the fans. Why should I care about the team? They don't deserve this city's support, plain and simple. Cincinnati has never had an NBA team in my lifetime, so I've always been an NBA nomad. And I think that's in the near future in regards to the NFL.

Hoosier Red
07-31-2011, 12:38 PM
In my mind, I just can't picture any scenario where this team wins more than 3 games. This season will set the fan base back 5 years. Blackouts galore!

Call me crazy, but I think this team will exceed expectations and win 6-7 games. My thought is in 2009 they were an 8-8 team that got lucky more often than unlucky and went 10-6. Last year they were a 7-9 team that was more unlucky then lucky and went 5-11. I think they're less talented this year than last year, but the correct base to judge from is a team that "should" have gone 7-9.

Redhook
07-31-2011, 01:30 PM
Call me crazy

You're crazy! :laugh:

I usually find a way to be optimistic about them no matter how bad they appear. It's not happening this year though. They have a rookie QB. They lost their best defensive player, JJ. They just lost Muckelroy for the year. They have no safeties. No running back. No depth. A weak O-line. Bad coach. Even if everyone stayed healthy, I'm not seeing 5 wins. Wait til the injuries start piling up. It's going to be really, really ugly.

RedsManRick
07-31-2011, 03:51 PM
I like Andy Dalton, but I sure would LOVE to have Andrew Luck. Here's to Brown continuing to sit on his hands.

That said, I'd really like to understand how this cap situation works. How will the 99% rule be enforced if it's league-wide?

Slyder
07-31-2011, 09:40 PM
How many times has this happened in the draft? The two that I can remember are Eli and Elway 20 odd years ago. It doesn't happen often and I doubt Luck does that. As bad as the Bengals are Palmer won and had his chances to win here. IMO Palmer wasn't as successful as he wanted to be more because of him than what surrounded him.

Can't forget about Bo.

Roy Tucker
07-31-2011, 10:19 PM
So, has anyone told Mike Brown the season has started and they can sign guys?

paintmered
07-31-2011, 10:42 PM
So, has anyone told Mike Brown the season has started and they can sign guys?

Dude, that like, costs money and stuff.

Redsfaithful
07-31-2011, 10:47 PM
They did get Nate Clements, and rumor is they are about to get Donte Whitner. I really have no idea if those guys are still any good.

JaxRed
08-01-2011, 12:57 AM
Mike Brown doesn't care about the fans. Why should I care about the team? They don't deserve this city's support, plain and simple. Cincinnati has never had an NBA team in my lifetime, so I've always been an NBA nomad. And I think that's in the near future in regards to the NFL.

We will welcome you as a Jags fan. I (as former Buckeye) was a Bengals fan forever. But eventually the fact that Mike Brown just doesn't care wears you down.

Here in Jax you have a team (and an owner) fighting for their survival. An owner that won't even listen to LA when they call. That when they were handing out franchises was told a franchise was his.... all he had to do was turn his back on Jacksonville, and he refused.

We have a GM that says character matters, and has rid his team of the bad guys.

Just one thing... you have to like rooting for the underdog.

TheBigLebowski
08-01-2011, 03:12 PM
We will welcome you as a Jags fan. I (as former Buckeye) was a Bengals fan forever. But eventually the fact that Mike Brown just doesn't care wears you down.

Here in Jax you have a team (and an owner) fighting for their survival. An owner that won't even listen to LA when they call. That when they were handing out franchises was told a franchise was his.... all he had to do was turn his back on Jacksonville, and he refused.

We have a GM that says character matters, and has rid his team of the bad guys.

Just one thing... you have to like rooting for the underdog.

I have entertained the thought of becoming a full-time Jags fan. I live an hour from Jax and I like the team, although I despise Del Rio. I go to about 3 games a year. If things get much worse here in Bengaldom I may officially make the switch, [jake gyllenhall] but my heart won't let me quit them [/jake gyllenhall] and I have no faith the team won't eventually move to LA.

MWM
08-01-2011, 04:04 PM
We will welcome you as a Jags fan. I (as former Buckeye) was a Bengals fan forever. But eventually the fact that Mike Brown just doesn't care wears you down.

Here in Jax you have a team (and an owner) fighting for their survival. An owner that won't even listen to LA when they call. That when they were handing out franchises was told a franchise was his.... all he had to do was turn his back on Jacksonville, and he refused.

We have a GM that says character matters, and has rid his team of the bad guys.

Just one thing... you have to like rooting for the underdog.

Interesting. I've never been able to adopt a new team in the places I lived. I tried in Minnesota in the late 2000s, but I couldn't become a full-blown fan. I'd love to divorce the Bengals and I have some serious feelings of hostility for Mike Brown, but no matter how hard I try, I just can't do it. I've been in Jax for a little over a year now. Maybe I'll see if they can capture me.

Caveat Emperor
08-01-2011, 04:08 PM
I have entertained the thought of becoming a full-time Jags fan. I live an hour from Jax and I like the team, although I despise Del Rio. I go to about 3 games a year. If things get much worse here in Bengaldom I may officially make the switch, [jake gyllenhall] but my heart won't let me quit them [/jake gyllenhall] and I have no faith the team won't eventually move to LA.

Jump on over to Tampa Bay -- I've been a Bucs fan my entire life, and I've never been more excited for a team (including the Super Bowl year) than this one.

JaxRed
08-01-2011, 04:34 PM
Bengals remain my #2 (ironically), but Jags are #1 for me now. Took a while, but about 8 years of one owner not caring and the other fighting with everything he's got to make the switch.

Redsfaithful
08-01-2011, 04:43 PM
I've given up on trying to not be a Bengals fan. It is what it is at this point, I can't change.

I'm going to outlive Mike Brown.

TheBigLebowski
08-01-2011, 07:49 PM
If I ever do make "the switch," it would be between Tampa Bay and Jax, with Miami a distant 3rd. Truthfully, though, it will never happen. Like Redsfaithful, I probably couldn't ever do it. And I, as well, barring a disaster, will outlive Mike Brown. What scares the hell out of me is the fact that he could just turn things over to Katie when he does pass. THAT might be the final straw for me.

Joseph
08-01-2011, 09:06 PM
How bad, so bad we'll long for Dick LeBeau.

JaxRed
08-01-2011, 09:23 PM
If I ever do make "the switch," it would be between Tampa Bay and Jax, with Miami a distant 3rd. Truthfully, though, it will never happen. Like Redsfaithful, I probably couldn't ever do it. And I, as well, barring a disaster, will outlive Mike Brown. What scares the hell out of me is the fact that he could just turn things over to Katie when he does pass. THAT might be the final straw for me.

Of course he is going to turn it over to her. I don't think there is the slightest bit of a doubt.

RiverRat13
08-01-2011, 10:33 PM
I've given up on trying to not be a Bengals fan. It is what it is at this point, I can't change.

I'm going to outlive Mike Brown.

:beerme:

Hillsdale87
08-01-2011, 10:49 PM
Call me crazy, but I think this team will exceed expectations and win 6-7 games. My thought is in 2009 they were an 8-8 team that got lucky more often than unlucky and went 10-6. Last year they were a 7-9 team that was more unlucky then lucky and went 5-11. I think they're less talented this year than last year, but the correct base to judge from is a team that "should" have gone 7-9.

Vegas has the over/under at 7.5 wins. They've got a very easy schedule this year, and I wouldn't be shocked if they win 7 or 8 games. The defense played well towards the end of last year. The offense loses Palmer, but they also lose Bratkowski. If Jay Gruden can bring some magic to the offense, I wouldn't be at all shocked if the Bengals have a decent season, more due to a weak schedule than a good team though.

BoydsOfSummer
08-02-2011, 03:01 AM
How does a guy from Hamilton end up a Browns fan? :confused:

Spent a lot of my youth in northern Ohio. We moved to Goshen when I was in 11th grade and I graduated from there. And grandpa was a Browns fan from way back before the Bengirls were a team, so I had that influence also.

Playadlc
08-02-2011, 03:08 AM
Bengals signed Manny Lawson to a 1 year deal tonight.

Solid signing. With Howard and Lawson the Bengals just got a heck of a lot faster at LB.

TheBigLebowski
08-02-2011, 10:45 AM
I hate that the Lutui thing fell through but, if we can add at least one more solid lineman and finalize the Whitner deal, I must say, we'll have done pretty well this off-season. The more I think about it, the more I realize the Texans overpaid for JJoe big time.

bucksfan2
08-02-2011, 11:22 AM
I peg them anywhere between 2-6 wins. Gradkowski isn't a great QB but he is a guy who will win a few more games than you think he can. He is a gritty type QB who will stick his nose anywhere in order to get a win. If Dalton is the 1st string QB I think their overall record will be worse but the team will be better off down the road.

IMO this type of season is going to be painful but beneficial in the long run. They needed to rid themselves of the likes of Chad, Carson, TJ, TO, etc. They needed to get some fresh blood in the system and rebuild. Now I don't have great hopes for the Bengals with Brown as the owner but hopefully Dalton is the real deal and they are able to get a top 5-8 draft pick and take a T.

WVRed
08-02-2011, 02:56 PM
We will welcome you as a Jags fan. I (as former Buckeye) was a Bengals fan forever. But eventually the fact that Mike Brown just doesn't care wears you down.

Here in Jax you have a team (and an owner) fighting for their survival. An owner that won't even listen to LA when they call. That when they were handing out franchises was told a franchise was his.... all he had to do was turn his back on Jacksonville, and he refused.

We have a GM that says character matters, and has rid his team of the bad guys.

Just one thing... you have to like rooting for the underdog.

Kind of a different situation for me.

I moved to Parkersburg, WV 8 years ago (hence the name). Growing up in Kentucky, I was always closer to the Reds and Bengals which made them my teams. Now in WV, the closest teams by proximity are the Steelers and Browns, one of which I have grown to hate and the other isn't much of an improvement over the Bengals.

I've also flirted with the idea of becoming a Colts fan, but I can't stand the Mannings either.

I'll stick with the Bengals. I'll probably quit following the NFL in general before I switch teams.

Roy Tucker
08-03-2011, 12:51 AM
Maybe they'll use the 2009 formula and play great Zimmer defense and then hand the ball off to Benson 25-30 times a game.

And then to keep the defenses honest, 2-3 times a game, they'll send AJ Green long and have the QB hang it out there and let him go up and get it.

I'll give this about a 25% chance of happening. Possible, but not probable. I'm glad I'm not a Bengals fan.

JaxRed
08-04-2011, 12:57 AM
Kind of a different situation for me.

I moved to Parkersburg, WV 8 years ago (hence the name). Growing up in Kentucky, I was always closer to the Reds and Bengals which made them my teams. Now in WV, the closest teams by proximity are the Steelers and Browns, one of which I have grown to hate and the other isn't much of an improvement over the Bengals.

I've also flirted with the idea of becoming a Colts fan, but I can't stand the Mannings either.

I'll stick with the Bengals. I'll probably quit following the NFL in general before I switch teams.

That's why the Jags are perfect.... they are so anonymous that one cares one way or another.....

But hurry... we're getting good. Soon.

RiverRat13
08-04-2011, 11:17 AM
Vegas has the over/under at 7.5 wins.

I just checked the Hilton and they had the over/under at 5.5. I'm curious where you found 7.5.

Cedric
08-04-2011, 11:13 PM
I just checked the Hilton and they had the over/under at 5.5. I'm curious where you found 7.5.

I just left Vegas on Tuesday and the odds at MGM were 7.5 and I placed a big bet.

I have the betting odds paper with me also.

RiverRat13
08-05-2011, 12:42 AM
I just left Vegas on Tuesday and the odds at MGM were 7.5 and I placed a big bet.

I'm guessing you took the under?

bucksfan2
08-05-2011, 10:30 AM
I just left Vegas on Tuesday and the odds at MGM were 7.5 and I placed a big bet.

I have the betting odds paper with me also.

Almost looks like a teaser bet. Vegas is good, they must see something us Bengals fans don't.

What was the over/under on Philly? I think they are over hyped and never will bet on Vick. Look at what he did when he got overhyped in ATL.

bucksfan2
08-05-2011, 10:39 AM
nm

Roy Tucker
08-05-2011, 02:13 PM
I think the Bengals have lost their minds.... I hope Dalton has a good life insurance policy.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/paul_daugherty/08/05/andy-dalton/index.html?eref=sircrc

RichRed
08-05-2011, 02:38 PM
Colin Cowherd (I know, I know) did a feature today where he summed up every NFL team in three words. For the Bengals, it was "Bag Over Head." A Bengals fan called in and said a better choice would've been "Need New Owner."

KoryMac5
08-05-2011, 02:51 PM
It's really a shame because this team does have some talent, Gresham, Simpson, Green, Dunlap, etc... are all good young players and fun to watch. However instead of adding to that talent Brown wastes it by signing has beens and have nots. If the Bengals would have shored up that O line like many have been begging him to do for the last 3-4 seasons I think this team would be capable of some exciting play. Unfortunately I don't think there is an insurance company out there foolish enough to risk putting a policy on young Andy Dalton.

Cedric
08-05-2011, 04:11 PM
Almost looks like a teaser bet. Vegas is good, they must see something us Bengals fans don't.

What was the over/under on Philly? I think they are over hyped and never will bet on Vick. Look at what he did when he got overhyped in ATL.

Eagles are at 10.5

MWM
08-05-2011, 06:10 PM
Bengals at 7.5? Geez, I think I'll go put my life savings on the under. That's pretty much as sure a bet as there's ever been.

Oxilon
08-05-2011, 06:44 PM
Yeah, I'm not really sure what Vegas is thinking. Hell, the Bengals didn't improve their horrible offensive line and now they're replacing Palmer with a rookie 2nd round draft pick.

Redhook
08-05-2011, 09:22 PM
I'd put the Bengals realistic over/under at 4.5. Even if it was that low, I'd still take the under. They're going to redefine bad Bengal football this year. And that stinks because I so badly want a good team to watch and root for. Damn you Mike Brown.

Stray
08-06-2011, 10:49 AM
I dunno, I think it's gonna be a bad year, but I also think it's a major move in the right direction. I'm glad Palmer won't be our QB. I'm glad TO is gone. I'm glad Ochocinco is gone (even though I appreciate the years he gave us).

I look at our playmakers on offense and I see a ton of young talent. Simpson, Shipley, Green, Caldwell, Gresham, and Scott. The big question is how Andy Dalton will do, but I'm okay with him and the other guys going through the rookie growing pains. I'd much rather get behind a team like that than I would the circus we've seen in recent years. The defense still has a lot of talent too, more than a lot of critics will ever really want to acknowledge. I look forward to seeing how Carlos Dunlap will perform in his 2nd year, he was an absolute beast in the second half of last season.

izzy's dad
08-06-2011, 11:42 AM
Keep in mind that the Bengals play and amazingly easy schedule this year. If they can get back to running the ball with authority, playing solid defense, and cut down the turnovers they can win 8-9 games. I really like the Manny Lawson addition, and I think the offensive line will improve upon it's play last year. Green and Simpson are proving in camp that they can make plays. If Dalton can take care of the ball, and Benson stays healthy I see a team that will be much improved from a year ago.

forfreelin04
08-06-2011, 12:54 PM
Keep in mind that the Bengals play and amazingly easy schedule this year. If they can get back to running the ball with authority, playing solid defense, and cut down the turnovers they can win 8-9 games. I really like the Manny Lawson addition, and I think the offensive line will improve upon it's play last year. Green and Simpson are proving in camp that they can make plays. If Dalton can take care of the ball, and Benson stays healthy I see a team that will be much improved from a year ago.

I like your optimism. Their schedule is easy. I think you'll see Marvin Lewis in a more comfortable place no TOCHO show and no longer making excuses for the Brat. Could be an opportunity for him to truly have a "team" environment instead of stars and rest of the team.

I think they'll get killed by the Steelers and the Ravens (unless they just get a few bounces their way). However, other team's defenses won't have a ton of film to go on. Dalton is new; Gruden is new.

Optimistically... 8 wins, likely 6 to 7. With a few injuries, 3 to 5.

Playadlc
08-06-2011, 01:09 PM
WillAnderson79 (http://twitter.com/#!/WillAnderson79)When Carson Palmer comes back to play for Bengals "Thank Me Later!"

9 seconds ago

Interesting. He has tweeted this twice now.

forfreelin04
08-06-2011, 01:17 PM
WillAnderson79 (http://twitter.com/#!/WillAnderson79)When Carson Palmer comes back to play for Bengals "Thank Me Later!"

9 seconds ago

Interesting. He has tweeted this twice now.

Amazing, if it happens. Shame is, Carson looked better the last few games of 2010 when he relied on no name receivers simply running their routes.

Personally, I could careless if its Palmer or Dalton so long as their competitive and not an embarrassment.

izzy's dad
08-06-2011, 01:25 PM
WillAnderson79 (http://twitter.com/#!/WillAnderson79)When Carson Palmer comes back to play for Bengals "Thank Me Later!"

9 seconds ago

Interesting. He has tweeted this twice now.

I do not want this to happen. It is time to turn a new leaf. Out with the old, in with the new I say.

BUTLER REDSFAN
08-06-2011, 02:21 PM
His latest tweet now says its not happening

Tony Cloninger
08-06-2011, 08:48 PM
Can tweeting be outlawed?

Mario-Rijo
08-06-2011, 10:47 PM
His latest tweet now says its not happening

Probably because he tweeted it in the 1st place.

KoryMac5
08-07-2011, 08:59 PM
Looks like Willie tried from what he told Hobson. Anderson sent a long message to Carson about still having the desire to play even after 3 seasons of being retired. He also highlighted the Bengals exciting young players while also taking time to pint out that Chad is gone. Looks like the Bengals and Palmer talked but neither side got anything done.

Time to move on, wish he would have come back for the season and played well so we could have dealt him for a better pick. No way Brown would move him for anything but a 1st or 2nd round pick, too much $$$$ cash invested in Carson to settle for less.

On a positive note AJ Green has wowed at camp so far and Dalton seems to be performing pretty well for a rookie.

kaldaniels
08-08-2011, 01:18 AM
The question asked in the thread title sounds like one thats setting up for a punchline.

So here goes...

How bad will they be?

They will be so bad, the Cleveland Browns (kal's team) will actually be 1-0 this year. :lol:

KoryMac5
08-10-2011, 12:07 AM
Solomon Wilcots and Jim Miller were out at camp today and a few folks from Bengals.com highlighted what was said:


Jim Miller and Wilcots both said we could easily be the big sleeper team in the AFC North and AFC. That we have all of the weapons...our schedule starts off easy and that the first 3 games are very winnable. They were very impressed with all of our offseason acquisitions...they were very impressed with Dalton...said he was passing the ball all around the field with quick throws and the ball hardly every touched the ground...the raved about all of his young weapons, they kept raving about Simpson and AJ...loved our o-line and Whitworth and Smith at Tackles....said Smith looks great.

Nate Clements laughed when asked about how good AJ Green already is...he said he is really good and could see AJ being one of the best in the league.

They said that Rey M looks great in the middle and they love the additions of Lawson and Howard at LB. They said they think Clements is a good replacement for JJ...even though they, we and the Bengals are upset they lost him.

I think no more than 4 wins but they should be fun to watch at times with all the athletes they have on offense. Though I do think Dalton will be running for his life most of the time.

Redsfaithful
08-10-2011, 01:53 AM
I was at camp today, and AJ Green is a monster. I can't really say enough about how imposing he is physically. I know rookie receivers generally struggle, but my expectations are sky high after seeing him in person.

Jerome Simpson made a ridiculous catch over Leon Hall about five feet in front of me at one point. He and AJ look like they are getting along well also. I think the Bengals receivers are going to be a fun group to watch this year.

Andre Smith looks really healthy. Like a normal lineman, not overly fat anymore.

Lot of banged up guys for it being so early. Kind of wonder if Bernard Scott is ever going to stay healthy.

Dalton looked good to me, but who knows. In QB play nothing really stood out except Palmer who looked pretty bad, but it's just one day.

Took my 3.5 year old little guy and lots of Bengals were really friendly about signing his football pennant after practice, he loved it. If you have kids I'd recommend going down to Georgetown. Even if it's to watch a 3-13 football team get ready it's still a great experience. Most intimate way you'll ever get to experience NFL football.

TheBigLebowski
08-10-2011, 11:37 AM
I was at camp today, and AJ Green is a monster. I can't really say enough about how imposing he is physically. I know rookie receivers generally struggle, but my expectations are sky high after seeing him in person.

Jerome Simpson made a ridiculous catch over Leon Hall about five feet in front of me at one point. He and AJ look like they are getting along well also. I think the Bengals receivers are going to be a fun group to watch this year.

Andre Smith looks really healthy. Like a normal lineman, not overly fat anymore.

Lot of banged up guys for it being so early. Kind of wonder if Bernard Scott is ever going to stay healthy.

Dalton looked good to me, but who knows. In QB play nothing really stood out except Palmer who looked pretty bad, but it's just one day.

Took my 3.5 year old little guy and lots of Bengals were really friendly about signing his football pennant after practice, he loved it. If you have kids I'd recommend going down to Georgetown. Even if it's to watch a 3-13 football team get ready it's still a great experience. Most intimate way you'll ever get to experience NFL football.

:thumbup:

Joseph
08-12-2011, 08:45 PM
I think the first series sums it up. Thats right, one preseason series and I've decided how the whole season will go.

Game over man, game over.

;)

Oxilon
08-12-2011, 08:47 PM
Yeah, I normally don't take anything away from preseason games, but with how low my expectations are this season, and how porous that defensive series was, I can't help to think that's a glimpse into our season.

Joseph
08-12-2011, 08:54 PM
Welcome to the NFL Andy Dalton.

CTA513
08-12-2011, 08:55 PM
Welcome to the NFL Andy Dalton.

:laugh:

KoryMac5
08-12-2011, 09:00 PM
It's going to be a long, long, long season. Hopefully my fantasy team doesn't suck this bad.

Todd Gack
08-12-2011, 11:35 PM
I still wonder why anyone in Cincinnati supports this team.

Oh, I forgot. Cincy has a lot of 'superfans.'

Stray
08-13-2011, 12:09 AM
Well yeah that was pretty bad haha. Dalton looked nervous to start which is understandable, I thought he settled down and made some nice throws after that though. It was just his first game. The defense got shredded though, yikes.

UKFlounder
08-13-2011, 09:55 AM
Well yeah that was pretty bad haha. Dalton looked nervous to start which is understandable, I thought he settled down and made some nice throws after that though. It was just his first game. The defense got shredded though, yikes.

Dalton - 15 pass attempts, only 69 yards
Gradkowski - 11 attempts, 53 yards

I'm not sure that type of "dink and dunk" offense will ever be effective even when he "first game" excuse is gone.

For a team that had so much trouble last year (4-12) to start its first game this year so unprepared was very disappointing. Did they coaching staff not hear that the lockout ended 2 weeks ago?

I hope I'm just overreacting to a meaningless preseason game. I don't really care about the loss, but I admit that how it occurred does bother me. Given this franchise's history thought, I'm not sure I am overreacting.

Uggh.

cincrazy
08-13-2011, 11:18 AM
Dalton - 15 pass attempts, only 69 yards
Gradkowski - 11 attempts, 53 yards

I'm not sure that type of "dink and dunk" offense will ever be effective even when he "first game" excuse is gone.

For a team that had so much trouble last year (4-12) to start its first game this year so unprepared was very disappointing. Did they coaching staff not hear that the lockout ended 2 weeks ago?

I hope I'm just overreacting to a meaningless preseason game. I don't really care about the loss, but I admit that how it occurred does bother me. Given this franchise's history thought, I'm not sure I am overreacting.

Uggh.

Well it's to be expected. Keep in mind, there are a lot of fresh faces trying to learn Zimmer's defense, and Zimmer said himself the other day he was going to keep things VERY simple because of that fact. Also, Jay Gruden is installing a brand new offense with a rookie QB. It's unquestionably going to take some time. I wouldn't read too much into this one game, I think they're better than THAT. Although still pretty bad :).

TheBigLebowski
08-13-2011, 11:47 AM
I'm not as panicky as most. The score looked a lot worse than it really was. Bengals turned the ball over twice in the first 5 minutes. After that, it was essentially over.

The Good:

Williams and Smith blocked really well. Opened up several holes for Benson and they pass-pro'd well.

Benson ran hard and with a purpose. Sniffed out the holes well.

Green and Simpson are dynamic. Just hope we can exploit them as we should. Toss in Shipley and Gresham and we have an elite pass-catching unit.

Reggie Nelson looked really good and, Leon Hall, even though he was burned twice, was in single coverage both times and there is no NFL CB who could have done a thing about either TD, and I still say Burleson was out on that 2nd TD.

The Bad:

Andy Dalton looked pretty bad....I know, rookie QB, first game, poor protection, etc. I get all that. But he made some poor reads and what bothers me the most is that he's still throwing off that back foot. He's got to cut that out.

Our defensive front got no pressure on their QB's.

Our offense as a whole only mustered up 3 points. Nugent missed a FG.

The Ugly:

Livings and Cook may as well have been turnstiles out there. Both of them collectively could not block Suh.

KoryMac5
08-13-2011, 12:19 PM
The game was awful and forgetable. However I did take some things away from the game as positives.

AJ Green looks like he is a TD waiting to happen. Dude looks like he can go for 6 everytime he touches the ball.

Benson looks a little quicker to the hole than last season, he gouged the Lions first string D.

Personally after the pick I thought Dalton looked pretty good. 11-15 ain't bad for a rookie QB. Couple of things to watch with him mechanics which was mentioned, and his locking in on receivers, kid needs to look the defense off.

Awful play call to have the kid go long his first NFL pass though, let him get some rythym and manage the game first.

chicoruiz
08-13-2011, 06:21 PM
Also, I thought Morgan Trent had some nice moments...

I sure hope Jean-Gilles can play, cause Livings was a boy among men Friday night.

Caveat Emperor
08-13-2011, 06:45 PM
I'm not sure that type of "dink and dunk" offense will ever be effective even when he "first game" excuse is gone.

Get used to it. Gruden is a disciple of his brother's offensive philosophy (which I got very acquainted with while watching in Tampa for several years) -- basic tenets are:

1. Emphasis on pre-snap motion and formation changes to confuse the defense.
2. Early down running between the tackles to soften the defense and nullify the pass rush.
3. Bunch formation WR groupings to create confusion and traffic for DBs in man-to-man coverage and to overload zones in more traditional Tampa 2 type schemes.
4. Preference for 3-step drop passes with the ball coming out on-time when the back foot plants for the third step.
5. Minimize the use of deep drops (7-step) unless as part of a play-action pass.
6. Avoid the shotgun whenever possible (takes the QBs eyes off the defense as he looks the ball in off the snap, disrupts timing due to snap-to-hand time being inconsistent form play-to-play).

With the heavy use of 3-step drops, you'll find that most primary routes don't go past 5-15 yards and there's a heavy preference for picking up yardage in that range.

Mario-Rijo
08-13-2011, 08:19 PM
I'm not as panicky as most. The score looked a lot worse than it really was. Bengals turned the ball over twice in the first 5 minutes. After that, it was essentially over.

The Good:

Williams and Smith blocked really well. Opened up several holes for Benson and they pass-pro'd well.

Benson ran hard and with a purpose. Sniffed out the holes well.

Green and Simpson are dynamic. Just hope we can exploit them as we should. Toss in Shipley and Gresham and we have an elite pass-catching unit.

Reggie Nelson looked really good and, Leon Hall, even though he was burned twice, was in single coverage both times and there is no NFL CB who could have done a thing about either TD, and I still say Burleson was out on that 2nd TD.

The Bad:

Andy Dalton looked pretty bad....I know, rookie QB, first game, poor protection, etc. I get all that. But he made some poor reads and what bothers me the most is that he's still throwing off that back foot. He's got to cut that out.

Our defensive front got no pressure on their QB's.

Our offense as a whole only mustered up 3 points. Nugent missed a FG.

The Ugly:

Livings and Cook may as well have been turnstiles out there. Both of them collectively could not block Suh.

Bobbie Williams? He is the one who allowed that 1st pass to be tipped and Dalton to be mamed. But I agree on Livings, I've always said he stinks.

webbbj
08-13-2011, 11:02 PM
I'm not as panicky as most. The score looked a lot worse than it really was. Bengals turned the ball over twice in the first 5 minutes. After that, it was essentially over.



i hate when pple say stuff like this. They did make those mistakes and theres no reason to think its gonna stop, they have been turning the ball over, making critical penalties etc consistently for years.

They make these mistakes in regards to fumbles, INTs, penalties and its foolish to think this wont continue to hold them back.

Hell if we just took out all the turnovers and penalties the Bengals would have quite a few SBs already.

LoganBuck
08-14-2011, 04:56 PM
i hate when pple say stuff like this. They did make those mistakes and theres no reason to think its gonna stop, they have been turning the ball over, making critical penalties etc consistently for years.

They make these mistakes in regards to fumbles, INTs, penalties and its foolish to think this wont continue to hold them back.

Hell if we just took out all the turnovers and penalties the Bengals would have quite a few SBs already.

And I hate when people act like a preseason game means the world. Where a player that won't be on the team in two weeks fumbled the ball before the Bengals offense had a chance to snap it. Where a rookie QB was in his FIRST game action. Quite frankly I don't know why people couldn't have watched that and come away thinking there is some nice stuff to build on. It was a preseason game. They are meant to be ugly and disjointed. If they had won the game 34-3, I would be just as quick to point out that is was a preseason game, and then picked out the high and low points.

webbbj
08-14-2011, 08:12 PM
And I hate when people act like a preseason game means the world.

i dont think a preseason game means anything win or lose. But its ignorance to cherry pick plays that did and didnt happen to justify a teams success or failure.

The bengals did fumble the kickoff and did throw an INT and you cant just say well if that didnt happen they looked pretty good. B/c those plays did happen and they are HUGE errors. And the Bengals have a history of making these same HUGE errors in both Regular season, and playoff games and nothing has changed to fix that.

Their lack of discipline is still a HUGE problem.

LoganBuck
08-14-2011, 08:27 PM
i dont think a preseason game means anything win or lose. But its ignorance to cherry pick plays that did and didnt happen to justify a teams success or failure.

The bengals did fumble the kickoff and did throw an INT and you cant just say well if that didnt happen they looked pretty good. B/c those plays did happen and they are HUGE errors. And the Bengals have a history of making these same HUGE errors in both Regular season, and playoff games and nothing has changed to fix that.

Their lack of discipline is still a HUGE problem.

You can choose to see it that way. What did you expect with a new scheme, new qb, new star receiver, and no offseason? Get realistic.

traderumor
08-14-2011, 09:50 PM
Didn't the Bengals have 18 guys still not in camp as of Friday?

Redhook
08-14-2011, 10:52 PM
Including Preseason, I now put the Over/Under for the Bengals season at 0 wins. Over or under? :p

webbbj
08-14-2011, 10:52 PM
You can choose to see it that way. What did you expect with a new scheme, new qb, new star receiver, and no offseason? Get realistic.

i dont fault the INT but the fumble is cause for concern b/c its not some fluky play it has become routine same with penalties.

LoganBuck
08-14-2011, 11:34 PM
i dont fault the INT but the fumble is cause for concern b/c its not some fluky play it has become routine same with penalties.

So a turnover from a guy who won't be on the team is cause for concern? The Bengals should be so lucky.

What we saw on Friday night that should concern you was the unchanged veteran middle of the offensive line nearly getting Andy Dalton decapitated, and the defense allowing Matt Stafford to eat Shrimp Fried Rice with chopsticks behind the line of scrimmage. Those are things to worry about.

Hoosier Red
08-15-2011, 02:22 PM
So a turnover from a guy who won't be on the team is cause for concern? The Bengals should be so lucky.

What we saw on Friday night that should concern you was the unchanged veteran middle of the offensive line nearly getting Andy Dalton decapitated, and the defense allowing Matt Stafford to eat Shrimp Fried Rice with chopsticks behind the line of scrimmage. Those are things to worry about.

I think the middle of the line is a bit misleading too, 1) they run blocked effectively 2) I doubt there was any game plan to deal with Suh like there would have been had it been a regular season game. I think it shows that they will have to be creative in getting the LG and C in particular to be effective pass blockers.
I think physically the three interior lineman will be at a disadvantage against most defensive fronts, and were especially at a disadvantage against one of the better/best in the business.

I think the same is true for the DL. Most of the Bengals physical advantages are on the ends, WR, CB, TE, LB. They'll need to use a good game plan to minimize that weakness.

When you combine a below average physical strength, an opponents above average physical strength, and no game plan to minimize the difference, you're going to see what you saw on Friday night.

wolfboy
08-15-2011, 02:22 PM
Including Preseason, I now put the Over/Under for the Bengals season at 0 wins. Over or under? :p

Under.

bucksfan2
08-15-2011, 04:57 PM
I checked out the Bengals schedule for this season. If Carson Palmer were the QB this might be a playoff team. Their schedule is about as weak as it gets. I soured on Carson over the past 3-4 years but this schedule is so easy the Bengals could have gone 10-6 easily with Palmer at QB.

Redhook
08-16-2011, 08:48 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/6866409/rick-reilly-bengals

Vomitorium. Great new word to describe the Bengals.

WVRed
08-16-2011, 08:48 PM
Really good article by Rick Reilly.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/6866409/rick-reilly-bengals

KoryMac5
08-21-2011, 08:27 PM
Not getting much better tonight for the Bengals, already down 7-0, Dalton has another pick.

Oxilon
08-21-2011, 08:28 PM
This has to be the worse team in the NFL. Not only do they lack talent on both sides of the ball, but their miscues are borderline hilarious. I tuned in for a few minutes and see that the Bengals are 3rd and 27 from their 1. :rolleyes:

paintmered
08-21-2011, 08:34 PM
And there's another pick...

Whoo boy, it's going to be a trying season.

UKFlounder
08-21-2011, 08:34 PM
Perhaps "it's early" can be the Bengals' official motto

Stray
08-21-2011, 08:35 PM
It would be hard to look worse than this if you were trying...

paintmered
08-21-2011, 08:35 PM
That participation ribbon will look really great in the trophy case this off-season.

Joseph
08-21-2011, 08:42 PM
That participation ribbon will look really great in the trophy case this off-season.

Don't you have to try to get the participation ribbon though?

paintmered
08-21-2011, 08:56 PM
Dalton starting to settle down and make some passes. He's actually showing some poise back there.

And touchdown! Take a picture while you can, folks.

Stray
08-21-2011, 08:58 PM
It's like he is really nervous at the start of the game and then settles down. He read that blitz and audibled to the right play to Shipley.

KoryMac5
08-21-2011, 09:02 PM
Nice play calling by Gruden to help the kid weather the storm.

paintmered
08-21-2011, 09:15 PM
Bengals receivers have a case of the dropsies.

JaxRed
08-21-2011, 09:17 PM
So I assume the NFL works like the MLB. If Bengals are worst record, an Luck decides he won't sign..... I assume Bengals lose his rights, and he goes to another team next year.

KoryMac5
08-21-2011, 09:25 PM
Luck doesn't strike me as the type that won't sign, but Carson never seemed like a quitter either.

Reds4Life
08-21-2011, 09:29 PM
It's like he is really nervous at the start of the game and then settles down. He read that blitz and audibled to the right play to Shipley.

It's his second game ever at this level, what do you expect?

If he can manage to not be taken off the field in an ambulance by the end of the season he's doing pretty good.

JaxRed
08-21-2011, 09:44 PM
Luck doesn't strike me as the type that won't sign, but Carson never seemed like a quitter either.

Carson's not a quitter. Carson is making a stand for all of you.

RiverRat13
08-21-2011, 09:50 PM
Week 4 against Buffalo may just determine the Andrew Luck sweepstakes.

KoryMac5
08-21-2011, 09:51 PM
Carson's not a quitter. Carson is making a stand for all of you.

He should have made that stand years ago by not taking all that up front money on a contract extension.

HotCorner
08-21-2011, 10:41 PM
Week 4 against Buffalo may just determine the Andrew Luck sweepstakes.

The 'Suck for Luck' sweepstakes!!!

WVRed
08-22-2011, 08:38 AM
Luck doesn't strike me as the type that won't sign, but Carson never seemed like a quitter either.

I could see Luck pulling an Eli Manning for one reason:

His dad is Oliver Luck, a former NFL QB and current WVU Athletic Director. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get involved at some point similar to Archie Manning and try to influence where his son ends up.

Carson didn't have the family support of somebody who knows the NFL. Andrew does and I think it will be an impact.

kaldaniels
08-22-2011, 09:46 AM
So do you think the Bengals will keep Pryor at QB or turn him into a TE/WR?

bucksfan2
08-22-2011, 09:52 AM
I could see Luck pulling an Eli Manning for one reason:

His dad is Oliver Luck, a former NFL QB and current WVU Athletic Director. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get involved at some point similar to Archie Manning and try to influence where his son ends up.

Carson didn't have the family support of somebody who knows the NFL. Andrew does and I think it will be an impact.

Since the USFL folded there has been one player that has refused to sign with a team. I could be wrong here but I would say that there is about a 1% chance that Luck would refuse to sign with the team that drafted him. That was Eli Manning who had an ego the size of NY because of his dad and his brother. And if the Bengals would be so lucky to have Luck refuse to sign and get the better QB the way the Chargers got I would be happy. For all the hoopla that Eli brought around he he has been a league average QB while Rivers had become a top 5 QB.

FWIW I don't see the Bengals getting the #1 pick. The schedule is so bad they will win some games. Heck I was even somewhat impressed with the way they finished the 1st half when everything went against them from the get go.

Sea Ray
08-22-2011, 10:16 AM
So I assume the NFL works like the MLB. If Bengals are worst record, an Luck decides he won't sign..... I assume Bengals lose his rights, and he goes to another team next year.
Luck won't have to play the game of holdout. If he doesn't want to play for the Bengals (or any other team that drafts #1) he doesn't have to come out. He's only a junior this year

Sea Ray
08-22-2011, 10:17 AM
Since the USFL folded there has been one player that has refused to sign with a team. I could be wrong here but I would say that there is about a 1% chance that Luck would refuse to sign with the team that drafted him. That was Eli Manning who had an ego the size of NY because of his dad and his brother. And if the Bengals would be so lucky to have Luck refuse to sign and get the better QB the way the Chargers got I would be happy. For all the hoopla that Eli brought around he he has been a league average QB while Rivers had become a top 5 QB.

FWIW I don't see the Bengals getting the #1 pick. The schedule is so bad they will win some games. Heck I was even somewhat impressed with the way they finished the 1st half when everything went against them from the get go.

There's no reason to even make it that complicated. He can always stick around for his senior year like Peyton did

Oxilon
08-22-2011, 11:35 AM
So do you think the Bengals will keep Pryor at QB or turn him into a TE/WR?

Do the Bengals try to be the laughingstock of the league?

UKFlounder
08-22-2011, 01:27 PM
nm

kaldaniels
08-22-2011, 02:46 PM
Do the Bengals try to be the laughingstock of the league?

Eh, looks like Uncle Al bailed you guys out.

Brutus
08-22-2011, 02:57 PM
He should have made that stand years ago by not taking all that up front money on a contract extension.

NFL teams can cut players, generally speaking, in the middle of a contract. So why shouldn't players be able to quit in the middle too?

CTA513
08-22-2011, 03:17 PM
Eh, looks like Uncle Al bailed you guys out.

:jump:

Oxilon
08-22-2011, 03:22 PM
Eh, looks like Uncle Al bailed you guys out.

Yeah, once he saw Pryor's 40 speed, we all should have assumed...

BuckeyeRed27
08-22-2011, 03:27 PM
Wow 3rd round pick for Pryor.
That also leaves the Raiders without a 2nd, 3rd or 4th round pick in the 2012 draft. Al Davis everyone!

Sea Ray
08-22-2011, 03:30 PM
NFL teams can cut players, generally speaking, in the middle of a contract. So why shouldn't players be able to quit in the middle too?

They can and do but they have to suffer the consequences. Barry Sanders did. In CP's case he can too but he's still controlled by the Bengals. What's the problem?

Stray
08-22-2011, 03:35 PM
It's his second game ever at this level, what do you expect?

If he can manage to not be taken off the field in an ambulance by the end of the season he's doing pretty good.

I wasn't implying that he should look like Joe Montana, just making an observation. I'd actually like to see Gruden ease him into the game more, maybe some swing passes and/or screens. Just something like that. He was solid after that horrible start even tho his receivers didn't do him any favors.

Redhook
08-22-2011, 03:44 PM
Wow 3rd round pick for Pryor.
That also leaves the Raiders without a 2nd, 3rd or 4th round pick in the 2012 draft. Al Davis everyone!

Wow, what a complete idiot. I'm glad I'm not a fan of the Raiders. Oh wait, I'm a Bengals fan.....:(

Roy Tucker
08-22-2011, 03:50 PM
Well, the Bengals went from absolutely pathetically bad in week #1 to average garden-variety bad in week 2 so I guess that's progress.

nmculbreth
08-22-2011, 04:19 PM
Wow, what a complete idiot. I'm glad I'm not a fan of the Raiders. Oh wait, I'm a Bengals fan.....:(

I've gone back and forth about which would be worse. While Al Davis has completely lost his mind, he still has shown a willingness to spend money to try and put a winner on the field, even if those efforts are misguided. I'm not sure you can say the same about the Bengals.

And on a slightly more morbid angle, with Al Davis starting to look like the cryptkeeper from Tales of the Crypt there is the possibility that he may pass on sooner rather than later and the team may be taken over by somebody at least semi-competent. Mike Brown is going to live forever and when he does finally pass on we can look forward to his daughter and son-in-law continuing to run the franchise in the same backward manner.

Hoosier Red
08-22-2011, 07:50 PM
This has to be the worse team in the NFL. Not only do they lack talent on both sides of the ball, but their miscues are borderline hilarious. I tuned in for a few minutes and see that the Bengals are 3rd and 27 from their 1. :rolleyes:

And do you know why that was?

Had it been 3rd and 28, it would have been a safety.

ervinsm84
08-22-2011, 08:09 PM
Its gonna be a long long season.

Retired in California - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrmSbx5nU50)

JaxRed
08-22-2011, 08:31 PM
I've gone back and forth about which would be worse. While Al Davis has completely lost his mind, he still has shown a willingness to spend money to try and put a winner on the field, even if those efforts are misguided. I'm not sure you can say the same about the Bengals.

And on a slightly more morbid angle, with Al Davis starting to look like the cryptkeeper from Tales of the Crypt there is the possibility that he may pass on sooner rather than later and the team may be taken over by somebody at least semi-competent. Mike Brown is going to live forever and when he does finally pass on we can look forward to his daughter and son-in-law continuing to run the franchise in the same backward manner.

There is not doubt which is worse. The Bengals, there is no end in sight until people start making a stand, and force the NFL to do something. That's why I applaud Carson Palmer, for saying "enough is enough". And if you finish last I hope Andrew Luck does too.

KoryMac5
08-22-2011, 09:45 PM
Bengals make a deal for S Taylor Mays according to ESPN. Hopefully Coyle can get something out of him.

KoryMac5
08-22-2011, 09:51 PM
There is not doubt which is worse. The Bengals, there is no end in sight until people start making a stand, and force the NFL to do something. That's why I applaud Carson Palmer, for saying "enough is enough". And if you finish last I hope Andrew Luck does too.

The NFL will do nothing about Mike Brown and his ilk. It's going to take the rest of the league to put pressure on him. However since the rest of the league is making money hand over fist nothing will get done.

Like I have said previously Carson shouldn't have taken the contract extension back a few years ago if he wanted to take a stand. He knows this franchise and he knew full well what he was agreeing to by staying here. Carson quit plain and simple.

George Foster
08-22-2011, 10:04 PM
I've gone back and forth about which would be worse. While Al Davis has completely lost his mind, he still has shown a willingness to spend money to try and put a winner on the field, even if those efforts are misguided. I'm not sure you can say the same about the Bengals.

And on a slightly more morbid angle, with Al Davis starting to look like the cryptkeeper from Tales of the Crypt there is the possibility that he may pass on sooner rather than later and the team may be taken over by somebody at least semi-competent. Mike Brown is going to live forever and when he does finally pass on we can look forward to his daughter and son-in-law continuing to run the franchise in the same backward manner.

Honestly, I think the Bengals are worse. Al Davis really wants to win, and he's mad as heck when he doesn't. He just makes bad decisions. Brown could care less if he wins or not, it's all about the bottom line. He knows what it takes to win and refuses to do it. A perfect example of this is not trading Chad when you could of gotten a 1st round pick for him a season or 2 ago and not trading Palmer when you could of improved the team in a couple of positions. He would rather let both go and get nothing in return.

Sea Ray
08-22-2011, 10:49 PM
Its gonna be a long long season.

[www.youtube.com/Retired in California

Sign that guy up for a contract (with Columbia). That was very well done and quite clever...:)

Redsfaithful
08-23-2011, 01:03 AM
There is not doubt which is worse. The Bengals, there is no end in sight until people start making a stand, and force the NFL to do something. That's why I applaud Carson Palmer, for saying "enough is enough". And if you finish last I hope Andrew Luck does too.

There's no end in sight period, so there's really no point in making any kind of stand. The Bengals really aren't anything especially bad since Marvin was hired anyway, they're a pretty standard below average NFL team playing in one of the harder divisions. They don't deserve any kind of benefit of the doubt because of the totality of the last 20 years, I'm just saying the NFL isn't going to do anything based on the last 8.

Playing devil's advocate here a little, but the Bengals have been in contention more than the Reds since Marvin Lewis was hired.

fearofpopvol1
08-23-2011, 02:54 AM
Bengals make a deal for S Taylor Mays according to ESPN. Hopefully Coyle can get something out of him.

I just saw this. I don't know if anything is wrong with him or not, but if not, the Bengals just made a good move.

LoganBuck
08-23-2011, 08:24 AM
I just saw this. I don't know if anything is wrong with him or not, but if not, the Bengals just made a good move.

Taylor Mays is a traditional strong safety. Zimmer has had much success with that kind of player over the years. Most teams play the Tampa Two now, which requires two free safeties, Zimmer does not. I expect Mays to do well here. He isn't a guy who should be counted on to do a lot of coverage of receivers. Match him up on a TE, and let him play in the box against the run.

bucksfan2
08-23-2011, 09:49 AM
Honestly, I think the Bengals are worse. Al Davis really wants to win, and he's mad as heck when he doesn't. He just makes bad decisions. Brown could care less if he wins or not, it's all about the bottom line. He knows what it takes to win and refuses to do it. A perfect example of this is not trading Chad when you could of gotten a 1st round pick for him a season or 2 ago and not trading Palmer when you could of improved the team in a couple of positions. He would rather let both go and get nothing in return.

The Bengals have been fairly competitive during the Marvin Lewis time period. He has yet to win a playoff game but has made it to the playoffs twice. How quickly we forget that the Bengals were a Carson Palmer knee injury away from being a legit playoff team. Mike Brown is an awful owner but IMO Marvin has done a decent job with his limited resources. And lets be honest this is a rebuilding year. Its want many Bengals fans have been calling for over the past couple of seasons. Gone are the diva's and the declining QB. In are new exciting WR's and a TE along with a rookie QB. Its going to be a painful year, but hopefully one that brings about hope.

As for Al Davis IMO he is the worst owner in the league. Next season they don't have a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick. He has been running his team based upon the 40 yard dash for the past 5+ years. Pryor in the 3rd? Hewyard-Bay in the 1st? Russell with the 1st pick in the draft? Guy is awful at making decisions at this stage in his career.

cincrazy
08-24-2011, 01:05 AM
The Bengals have been fairly competitive during the Marvin Lewis time period. He has yet to win a playoff game but has made it to the playoffs twice. How quickly we forget that the Bengals were a Carson Palmer knee injury away from being a legit playoff team. Mike Brown is an awful owner but IMO Marvin has done a decent job with his limited resources. And lets be honest this is a rebuilding year. Its want many Bengals fans have been calling for over the past couple of seasons. Gone are the diva's and the declining QB. In are new exciting WR's and a TE along with a rookie QB. Its going to be a painful year, but hopefully one that brings about hope.

As for Al Davis IMO he is the worst owner in the league. Next season they don't have a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick. He has been running his team based upon the 40 yard dash for the past 5+ years. Pryor in the 3rd? Hewyard-Bay in the 1st? Russell with the 1st pick in the draft? Guy is awful at making decisions at this stage in his career.

Davis has clearly lost touch with reality, but for several years he was arguably the best owner in the game. Just win, baby. Mike Brown? Just turn a profit, baby. He's a disgrace and has no business owning a football team.

traderumor
08-24-2011, 07:41 AM
Carson's not a quitter. Carson is making a stand for all of you.I'm not seeing it as anymore than the rich kid taking his ball and going home because he doesn't agree with Sugar Daddy. That's lame, not courageous.

Actually CP did ME a favor, because watching him last year was brutal.

Sea Ray
08-24-2011, 11:47 AM
What exactly is Carson's beef with Mike Brown? Last year MB went out of his way to give Carson weapons such as Gresham, Shipley and at Carson's request, TO. I'm sure having brother Jordan on the team was also something MB did to appease Carson. The only thing I can think of is Carson is not pleased with Marvin, but no NFL team can allow the QB to fire/hire head coaches. Carson's quitting put the team in a position to to do what's not in their best interests and I don't blame them at all for sticking it to him. Carson should have known that this was not going to work with MB.

Redsfaithful
08-24-2011, 01:09 PM
I actually thought much of Carson's complaint was with Chad and Bratkowski, but the Bengals got rid of both and it didn't fix things, so I'm not entirely sure anymore. It has to be core issues with how the team is run cheaply, scouting, facilities, etc. Or maybe it's an issue with Marvin I guess, but I have a hard time seeing that as being bad enough to retire.

Redsfaithful
08-24-2011, 01:09 PM
Also don't forget the rumors that Carson's wife hated Cincinnati and wanted him to get traded to the west coast or retire, those were all over the place.

KoryMac5
08-24-2011, 02:03 PM
Carson really hasn't given any reason publically for wanting out, he hasn't talked much at all. I would think it has more to do with having kids and a wife and wanting to get back to the West Coast to be close to family.

This whole deal has been handled poorly by both sides from the start. It's too bad they couldn't have reached some agreement where Carson would play this season and be dealt afterwards. I remember Boomer doing that when he wanted out.

Sea Ray
08-24-2011, 03:59 PM
This whole deal has been handled poorly by both sides from the start. It's too bad they couldn't have reached some agreement where Carson would play this season and be dealt afterwards. I remember Boomer doing that when he wanted out.

That was the formula for all kinds of disgruntled Bengals such as Pickens, Dillon and as you say, Boomer. If Carson won't even show up for work, MB will screw him.

Oxilon
08-24-2011, 08:45 PM
That was the formula for all kinds of disgruntled Bengals such as Pickens, Dillon and as you say, Boomer. If Carson won't even show up for work, MB will screw him.

Bolded is key. If this were some anomaly, I could blame Carson Palmer and Mike Brown. But seeing how this is nothing new, and there have been many players in the past who have demanded out, I cannot blame Palmer for this disaster. Mike Brown has been the only constant since the Bungleness began back in the early 90's. Yeah, I may be disappointed Carson Palmer opted out, but so be it.

On a somewhat related note, it's unbelievable to me that our "GM" won't trade him, even at the expense the team. What a stubborn, foolish man. I've seen 3rd graders act more responsible.

Sea Ray
08-24-2011, 10:29 PM
Bolded is key. If this were some anomaly, I could blame Carson Palmer and Mike Brown. But seeing how this is nothing new, and there have been many players in the past who have demanded out, I cannot blame Palmer for this disaster. Mike Brown has been the only constant since the Bungleness began back in the early 90's. Yeah, I may be disappointed Carson Palmer opted out, but so be it.

On a somewhat related note, it's unbelievable to me that our "GM" won't trade him, even at the expense the team. What a stubborn, foolish man. I've seen 3rd graders act more responsible.

But those guys didn't handle it like Palmer did. They all showed up eventually. Palmer would have been much smarter to show up and play all the while telling MB privately that he wants out. That formula worked for the others. Palmer's strategy will not work.

Most NFL teams, will refuse to recognize any players contract grievances until the player agrees to report.

Palmer has forced this team to assume an all or nothing stance MB has chosen nothing...for now. He still has 4 yrs to trade him

paintmered
08-24-2011, 10:57 PM
Carson's not even the first Bengal to retire instead of play. Barry Foster did it in the 90s.

Danny Serafini
08-25-2011, 12:21 AM
Carson's not even the first Bengal to retire instead of play. Barry Foster did it in the 90s.

Barry Foster was a Bengal for all of two days, and injured as well. Hardly a similar circumstance.

Sea Ray
08-25-2011, 08:58 AM
Carson's not even the first Bengal to retire instead of play. Barry Foster did it in the 90s.

You're comparing Barry Foster with Carson Palmer? Really? The guy who had a 5 yr career and never played for anyone other than the Pittsburgh Steelers? How many years did the Bengals "control" him?

Hoosier Red
08-25-2011, 09:33 AM
But those guys didn't handle it like Palmer did. They all showed up eventually. Palmer would have been much smarter to show up and play all the while telling MB privately that he wants out. That formula worked for the others. Palmer's strategy will not work.

Most NFL teams, will refuse to recognize any players contract grievances until the player agrees to report.

Palmer has forced this team to assume an all or nothing stance MB has chosen nothing...for now. He still has 4 yrs to trade him

I agree with Sea Ray. My guess is that was what Palmer intended to do eventually, but when the story got leaked and the whole city and team essentially said, "See ya." He was left with no choice but to simply sit and wait.

That makes me wonder who was responsible for leaking it?
Someone in Palmer's camp who really didn't want to see him come back?
Someone in the Bengals camp who wanted another excuse for a pitiful season?
The sad thing is I bet Mike Brown feels vindicated now, when the story broke, public opinion turned on Palmer pretty quickly, and everyone has been fairly excited about Andy Dalton and AJ Green.

Sea Ray
08-25-2011, 10:21 AM
I agree with Sea Ray. My guess is that was what Palmer intended to do eventually, but when the story got leaked and the whole city and team essentially said, "See ya." He was left with no choice but to simply sit and wait.

That makes me wonder who was responsible for leaking it?
Someone in Palmer's camp who really didn't want to see him come back?
Someone in the Bengals camp who wanted another excuse for a pitiful season?
The sad thing is I bet Mike Brown feels vindicated now, when the story broke, public opinion turned on Palmer pretty quickly, and everyone has been fairly excited about Andy Dalton and AJ Green.

I think he had people purposely leak it so he could lay low. I think he intended to sell his house and never come back. If that wasn't his intention, he easily could have set the record straight either directly or through his agent. The fact that he didn't shows me that he indeed never did intend to play another game in Bengal stripes

Stray
08-25-2011, 09:46 PM
Really impressed with that first half.

Dalton looks sharp.
D-Line is in the backfield.
O-Line opening up holes.
Benson and Scott look ready.

KoryMac5
08-25-2011, 09:47 PM
How bad will the Bengals be this season hmmmm... Not as bad as Carolina. Gruden has his offense in a nice flow mixing a strong running game with an efficient passing attack. Not ready to declare the Bengals headed to a Super Bowl but 4-6 wins is possible.

Bernard Scott looks really fast tonight, 6 carries for 63 yds. Hopefully he can get those 10-12 touches a game Marvin has been talking about.

cincrazy
08-25-2011, 10:16 PM
They've made improvements and adjustments. That much is clear. The offense has a chance to be pretty good by the end of the year. I still think the defense will be dog crap, but I think Zimmer can get them to overperform a bit. The offense has been guilty of only one pre-snap penalty I believe, a breath of fresh air.

Redsfaithful
08-25-2011, 10:49 PM
Going to be about health and turnovers. They have no depth so injuries will be key. If they have above average luck with both I think they can win 6.

Sea Ray
08-25-2011, 11:50 PM
In the pre game Dave Lapham reported that Taylor Mays only cost the Bengals a 7th rd pick in the 2013 draft. I found that very interesting

Redsfaithful
08-26-2011, 03:40 AM
In the pre game Dave Lapham reported that Taylor Mays only cost the Bengals a 7th rd pick in the 2013 draft. I found that very interesting

Wow. Would love to know what happened behind the scenes with Mays to drop from so highly regarded to dumped a year later for a late round pick two years down the road.

UKFlounder
08-26-2011, 10:29 AM
That was certainly better. If they can run it like they did last night, it will help

dougdirt
08-26-2011, 07:29 PM
Wow. Would love to know what happened behind the scenes with Mays to drop from so highly regarded to dumped a year later for a late round pick two years down the road.

I am no football scout, but from what I have read from guys who are.... he isn't quick at all in changing directions, which as a DB, is not good. Apparently he is a fast straight line runner, but when he has to change directions even a little bit, he slows down dramatically.

Redsfaithful
08-26-2011, 08:00 PM
I am no football scout, but from what I have read from guys who are.... he isn't quick at all in changing directions, which as a DB, is not good. Apparently he is a fast straight line runner, but when he has to change directions even a little bit, he slows down dramatically.

I've read the same, which is why I think Zimmer is going to make him more of a strong safety. But this was a criticism of Mays coming out of college. Converting a 2nd round pick into a 7th rounder two years away just a year into having the guy is bizarre. A 2nd rounder getting dumped even two years into their rookie contract is notable, let alone one.

dougdirt
08-26-2011, 08:51 PM
I've read the same, which is why I think Zimmer is going to make him more of a strong safety. But this was a criticism of Mays coming out of college. Converting a 2nd round pick into a 7th rounder two years away just a year into having the guy is bizarre. A 2nd rounder getting dumped even two years into their rookie contract is notable, let alone one.

Sure, but it only takes one team to overdraft a guy.

Heck, there is absolutely no way that I would have ever thought about taking Cam Newton in the first round last year, much less taking him first overall. The guy is not a quarterback right now. He isn't close. He is a guy who can throw a football and can run pretty well for a guy his size. That doesn't make a guy a quarterback though. I still don't see much of a difference between Cam Newtons skillset and that of Terrell Pryor. Both guys aren't quarterbacks right now, or even close to it. Both guys are big, physical and have some tools, but neither has a clue as to how to be a quarterback at the NFL level right now. One guy went 1st overall. One guy was a 3rd rounder.

SeeinRed
08-26-2011, 09:39 PM
Sure, but it only takes one team to overdraft a guy.

Heck, there is absolutely no way that I would have ever thought about taking Cam Newton in the first round last year, much less taking him first overall. The guy is not a quarterback right now. He isn't close. He is a guy who can throw a football and can run pretty well for a guy his size. That doesn't make a guy a quarterback though. I still don't see much of a difference between Cam Newtons skillset and that of Terrell Pryor. Both guys aren't quarterbacks right now, or even close to it. Both guys are big, physical and have some tools, but neither has a clue as to how to be a quarterback at the NFL level right now. One guy went 1st overall. One guy was a 3rd rounder.

Pryor may well have been a first rounder in the NFL draft. I wouldn't draw any conclusions based on where Pryor was drafted in the supplemental draft. They simply aren't the same.

Honestly, as far as skill sets goes, Pryor is a much better athlete IMO. As you said, neither looks like an NFL QB right now. Pryor has other options though, and I'm not sure what Cam's would be.

dougdirt
08-26-2011, 09:48 PM
Pryor may well have been a first rounder in the NFL draft. I wouldn't draw any conclusions based on where Pryor was drafted in the supplemental draft. They simply aren't the same.

Honestly, as far as skill sets goes, Pryor is a much better athlete IMO. As you said, neither looks like an NFL QB right now. Pryor has other options though, and I'm not sure what Cam's would be.

The two drafts are pretty similar since you have to give up that pick in the next years draft. Teams are going to take you based on what they value you at. And to be honest, I think Cam Newton could probably work as a tight end. He has some speed and size. Not sure about his hands, but can't the same be said of Pryor?

WMR
08-27-2011, 03:32 AM
Wow, talk about selling Cam Newton short... he's a much better QB right now than Pryor could ever hope of becoming.

He's a rookie on a bad team in the NFL.

KoryMac5
08-27-2011, 12:39 PM
Cam Newton at this point is a much better player than Pryor. The only way Pryor could change that is by switching to wide receiver because he won't stick in this league at QB. His throwing mechanics are that bad to where I think we see the Raiders give up on his QB dreams after this season. If Pryor had stayed for his senior season without the suspension he may have gone in the third to fourth round of the draft. The 2012 NFL draft has the possibility to be a very special draft deep in QB's. Pryor would have been swallowed up by that talent and his many shortcomings exposed.

Hillsdale87
08-27-2011, 02:06 PM
Pryor's mechanics are poor, but I don't think that they are to the point where they can't be fixed. In the few clips I saw of his private workout, his throwing mechanics looked better than they did at OSU. He always seemed to be pushing or guiding the ball instead of throwing it. I think this is something that can be improved. I think it will also help to work with Hue Jackson. He seems like a very creative offensive coach who will be able to work with Pryor. I don't know that Pryor is going to be a good NFL QB, but I think that he will at the very least be an effective player with certain packages designed around him

SeeinRed
08-27-2011, 03:45 PM
The two drafts are pretty similar since you have to give up that pick in the next years draft.

This simply isn't true. Teams are much less willing to give up a future pick before addressing needs and players available. Giving up next year's third round is quite risky considering the third round is a round expected to bring value, usually at a position of need. The two drafts, and the value of the picks in each round are not that similar.

CTA513
08-27-2011, 04:14 PM
Jordan Palmer was cut today so I wouldn't be surprised if Carson showed up before the season starts now that hes gone.

KoryMac5
08-27-2011, 04:39 PM
Rumors are flying that Carson will show up somewhere between Sept 6 and Sept 9th. Forcing the Bengals to play him or cut him. Unfortunately for Palmer Mike Brown planned for that scenario a long time ago by making sure he stayed well below the cap. It will be interesting to see this battle play out over the next few weeks and how some of the leaders on the team (Whitworth) react to Carson coming back.

Screwball
08-27-2011, 04:42 PM
Wow, talk about selling Cam Newton short... he's a much better QB right now than Pryor could ever hope of becoming.

He's a rookie on a bad team in the NFL.

I agree with your overall point, but I think this might be a bit much.

As for the Bengals, they have a favorable schedule this year, and if Carson was playing without all the drama surrounding him this offseason, I'd be eyeing the playoffs. However, they have a rookie quarterback who's had limited work this preseason due to the lockout. The defense took a hit with the loss of Joseph, but overall there's still lots of talent on that side of the ball. It really comes down to how well the Line can get to the QB without forcing Zimmer to bring pressure packages.

I've seen fans mockingly claim the Bengals' best player is Kevin Huber, but the fact remains he's a very valuable weapon to have - especially on a team that probably will struggle (at least initially) to maintain offensive drives. Winning the battle for field position will certainly pay dividends should the Bengals find themselves in a lot of close games, which I think they will.

In the end though, the Bengals will probably end up with a high draft pick again. 4-12 sounds about right.

dougdirt
08-27-2011, 04:46 PM
Wow, talk about selling Cam Newton short... he's a much better QB right now than Pryor could ever hope of becoming.

He's a rookie on a bad team in the NFL.

He is a bad rookie quarterback on a bad team in the NFL. He isn't accurate with his throws. He looks to run too quickly. I just don't see it with the guy, at least to the point that he should have gone in the first round or should be starting in the NFL. The fact that the Panthers didn't even bring in a vet QB is hilarious. Their 1st string QB is a rookie who has issues at actually being a quarterback. Their 2nd string QB is the guy who had far and away the worst QB rating (the new ESPN one) in all of the game last year. This team might just go ahead and draft Andrew Luck in 2012.

WMR
08-27-2011, 04:57 PM
I agree with your overall point, but I think this might be a bit much.

As for the Bengals, they have a favorable schedule this year, and if Carson was playing without all the drama surrounding him this offseason, I'd be eyeing the playoffs. However, they have a rookie quarterback who's had limited work this preseason due to the lockout. The defense took a hit with the loss of Joseph, but overall there's still lots of talent on that side of the ball. It really comes down to how well the Line can get to the QB without forcing Zimmer to bring pressure packages.

I've seen fans mockingly claim the Bengals' best player is Kevin Huber, but the fact remains he's a very valuable weapon to have - especially on a team that probably will struggle (at least initially) to maintain offensive drives. Winning the battle for field position will certainly pay dividends should the Bengals find themselves in a lot of close games, which I think they will.

In the end though, the Bengals will probably end up with a high draft pick again. 4-12 sounds about right.

You may be right Screwball, I guess my reason for saying that is because I just don't see Pryor as a primary QB in this league. Ronnie Brown in a Randy Moss package? Something like that I could buy into, if Pryor himself is willing to buy into that and work towards that end.

I see Newton as eventually a good QB in the NFL. I watched most of his games in college last season and he can flat out make all the throws needed to succeed in the NFL.

Mario-Rijo
08-27-2011, 08:23 PM
Wow, talk about selling Cam Newton short... he's a much better QB right now than Pryor could ever hope of becoming.

He's a rookie on a bad team in the NFL.

I don't see it with either of them but I don't believe they are vastly different. Both can make all the throws necessary from an arm strength point of view but neither are particularly accurate or quick with their release a problem I don't believe either can overcome.

WMR
08-27-2011, 11:28 PM
I don't see it with either of them but I don't believe they are vastly different. Both can make all the throws necessary from an arm strength point of view but neither are particularly accurate or quick with their release a problem I don't believe either can overcome.

From what I've seen, Newton is a much more accurate QB right now than Pryor. I think his "improvement arc" is also much greater with more potential.

bucksfan2
08-29-2011, 09:40 AM
From what I've seen, Newton is a much more accurate QB right now than Pryor. I think his "improvement arc" is also much greater with more potential.

From my watching of Pryor last year I got the sense that he "wanted" to be a QB. He "wanted" to go through his progressions. He was a pass first run later QB. He didn't run until the play started to break down. From the little I have watched of Newton he is more of a dual threat type guy. He has more designed run plays, is more willing to take off early, he may be a more accurate QB but has never played in a pro style offense.

I don't know if Newton ever will become a solid NFL QB. I think it would be better for him to sit and learn for a year to fully understand a NFL offense. Over the past decade plus there has been one successful running QB and that has been Vick. And you could even make the point that its been a rocky ride as well. Guys who are two quick to leave the pocket often get hammered when they leave the pocket.

Sea Ray
08-29-2011, 11:01 AM
It's well established that running QBs need more time to develop. Steve McNair is a great example. Amazingly he needed about 5 yrs to develop. Mike Vick took awhile too. These guys will be very interesting to watch and it'll be a long road.

LoganBuck
08-29-2011, 04:35 PM
Bengals trade Clinton McDonald to Seattle for Kelly Jennings

Ugh

I liked McDonald, if my memory is right Jennings is terrible

CTA513
08-29-2011, 06:23 PM
During the Bengals bye week Benson will be in jail:



The Austin American-Statesman reports that Benson pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor assault charge and was sentenced to 20 days in jail today. But with time off for good behavior, Benson will only have to serve about a week in jail (assuming he behaves himself), and the plea agreement allows Benson to report to jail on October 17, the start of the Bengals’ bye week.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/cedric-benson-will-spend-bengals-bye-week-in-jail/

Hillsdale87
08-29-2011, 10:52 PM
Bengals trade Clinton McDonald to Seattle for Kelly Jennings

Ugh

I liked McDonald, if my memory is right Jennings is terrible

McDonald is nice, but the Bengals have a lot of depth at DL and very little at CB. He would be behind Peko, Sims, Fanene, and Atkins at least. And Jennings should be a good 3rd CB with a lot of promise. He was once a 1st round pick, so the potential is there.

bucksfan2
09-02-2011, 12:34 PM
Bengals sign Hall for 4 more years. I liked J Joe better but Hall is a quality DB. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6921614/cincinnati-bengals-sign-leon-hall-4-more-years-sources-say

Redsfaithful
09-02-2011, 04:11 PM
Also just extended Cook.

LoganBuck
09-02-2011, 04:23 PM
No complaints on the extensions.

Oxilon
09-02-2011, 04:49 PM
Ugh. Not a big fan of Cook. Maybe it's because he's playing next to garbage in Bobbie Williams and Nate Livings, but I've never been that impressed with him. I suppose it's easy to think he's good when he replaced Guicheck, but I still miss the days when Braham was the center.

Hoosier Red
09-03-2011, 05:10 PM
Oh swell....

@GeoffHobsonCin
Geoff Hobson
#Bengals lose RG Bobbie Williams for first 4 games for violating NFL policy on performance enhancing substances

CTA513
09-03-2011, 05:30 PM
Oh swell....

@GeoffHobsonCin
Geoff Hobson
#Bengals lose RG Bobbie Williams for first 4 games for violating NFL policy on performance enhancing substances

Someone let Bobbie know whatever he took isn't working.

Redsfaithful
09-04-2011, 04:38 PM
Bengals claimed OL Mike McGlynn And TE Mickey Shuler; waived C Reggie Stephens And TE Chase Coffman.

Also cut Quan Cosby and signed Brandon Tate.

I'm bummed they cut Chase Coffman, I think he could have stretched the field and been helpful in 2 TE sets, but since Gresham will see a lot of balls maybe they just wanted blocking TEs as depth? Not sure.

Not sure I understand the Brandon Tate signing. Cosby was decent with punts, played on every special teams unit, and I personally like Bernard Scott returning kicks. But maybe Scott is going to have a bigger role in the running game and they want to keep him healthy, if it's for that reason I'm good with it.

Hillsdale87
09-04-2011, 04:56 PM
I'm also disappointed to see Coffman go. I was hoping he would be an effective pass catching TE, but he never got any traction.

I actually like the Brandon Tate signing. He's a good kick returner with good receiving skills as well. He was a 3rd round pick 3 years ago and probably would have gone much higher if he hadn't gotten injured his senior year at UNC. Cosby was solid, but I think Tate provides everything Cosby could with a lot more upside.

Reds
09-04-2011, 11:12 PM
Tate was a good sign. I actually think the Bengals can win 7 games this year.

Hoosier Red
09-04-2011, 11:58 PM
Reds

Tate was a good sign. I actually think the Bengals can win 7 games this year.

Ah for the glorious optimism of youth.

Mario-Rijo
09-06-2011, 09:33 AM
Bengals claimed OL Mike McGlynn And TE Mickey Shuler; waived C Reggie Stephens And TE Chase Coffman.

Also cut Quan Cosby and signed Brandon Tate.

I'm bummed they cut Chase Coffman, I think he could have stretched the field and been helpful in 2 TE sets, but since Gresham will see a lot of balls maybe they just wanted blocking TEs as depth? Not sure.

Not sure I understand the Brandon Tate signing. Cosby was decent with punts, played on every special teams unit, and I personally like Bernard Scott returning kicks. But maybe Scott is going to have a bigger role in the running game and they want to keep him healthy, if it's for that reason I'm good with it.

Waived/released/did not complete signing Mickey Schuler (did not pass physical). Coffman made it to the practice squad.

I'm hoping they go after Donald Lee TE who was cut by Philly. He's a decent backup TE in a W/C who has some experience. A better fit than most out there. If not him I wish they would take a look at rookie TE Lee Smith waived by N.E. played at Marshall and is a big stout boy at 6' 6" and 270 lbs. They have one spot open and they are not assured to sign a TE for that spot according to Marvin but they do plan to fill it in the next day or so (at this point).

t5BigRedMachine
09-06-2011, 09:42 PM
i expect 1 to 3 wins . would like to see 9 or more wins but i'm not gonna lose any sleep over it . it's what happen when your a bengal fan for over 35 years . :(

Stray
09-11-2011, 02:51 PM
Looking good so far, but wow the Browns are embarrassing 1 quarter in.

CTA513
09-11-2011, 03:16 PM
14-13 Browns

CTA513
09-11-2011, 03:53 PM
Gradkowski in to start the 2nd half for the Bengals.
They haven't' said why, but I'm guessing its because Dalton got hurt on the last possession of the 1st half.

Reds Fanatic
09-11-2011, 03:54 PM
Looks like Dalton is hurt. Gradkowski in for the 2nd half

Joseph
09-11-2011, 03:57 PM
If BG is the QB I don't see this team growing this season. At least with Dalton we could say we were learning/growing as a team.

Oxilon
09-11-2011, 04:48 PM
If BG is the QB I don't see this team growing this season. At least with Dalton we could say we were learning/growing as a team.

If Bruce is the QB, this is unofficially year one with Andrew Luck.

CTA513
09-11-2011, 05:01 PM
Bengals just took a late lead on a quick snap TD pass to Green

CTA513
09-11-2011, 05:14 PM
Bengals still have the lead, but might have given up a punt return TD if the Browns WR didn't run into Cribs while trying to knock Huber out.

Stray
09-11-2011, 05:16 PM
That Brown who tackled Cribbs might have saved the game for us.

CTA513
09-11-2011, 05:19 PM
That Brown who tackled Cribbs might have saved the game for us.

Went for the big hit when all he needed to do was get in the way of Huber.


Benson scores a TD on 3rd down to seal the win

texasdave
09-11-2011, 05:22 PM
That Oliver Luck mirage seems to be fading.

paintmered
09-11-2011, 06:11 PM
Did I just watch the Bengals get out-Bungled?

Redsfaithful
09-11-2011, 06:12 PM
Good start. Just hope Dalton's ok.

It's just one game but I think this shows that the national media doesn't really bother to look too deeply at the Bengals most of the time. Easier just to say they'll be the worst team in football.

Redsfaithful
09-11-2011, 06:13 PM
And I think everyone's going to say it's just the Browns, but the Bengals D stepped up big in the second half.

I think the Browns will win next week against the Colts.

CTA513
09-11-2011, 06:15 PM
Did I just watch the Bengals get out-Bungled?

Yes and the play of the game was by Browns WR Little for helping stop his teammate from returning a punt for a TD.

gilpdawg
09-11-2011, 06:25 PM
And I think everyone's going to say it's just the Browns, but the Bengals D stepped up big in the second half.

I think the Browns will win next week against the Colts.

That's not saying much. Colts are putrid. :(

Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk

cincrazy
09-11-2011, 07:32 PM
The Bengals D was impressive today. It was aggressive, the D-line had great push, and they played well together as a unit. Shades of 2009, if you will. The offense is going to be a work in progress, but with the schedule this team has... maybe they'll be better than I thought.

Hoosier Red
09-11-2011, 08:26 PM
Luckily for Brown's fans, there's a viable excuse.

"They quick snapped us," Shurmur said. "I'll have to watch the tape, but it's my understanding they changed personnel, lined up and then quick snapped. There's rules that go along with that, so we'll see. My understanding is when the offense changes personnel, the defense is allowed to do so as well and have time to do it."

"It's kind of frustrating, but in my eyes some of those calls are questionable," he said. "The biggest thing is do not let this game trickle over into a whole season. That would be the most frustrating thing."

It's always something with this team. :)

Matt700wlw
09-11-2011, 08:37 PM
Luckily for Brown's fans, there's a viable excuse.

"They quick snapped us," Shurmur said. "I'll have to watch the tape, but it's my understanding they changed personnel, lined up and then quick snapped. There's rules that go along with that, so we'll see. My understanding is when the offense changes personnel, the defense is allowed to do so as well and have time to do it."

"It's kind of frustrating, but in my eyes some of those calls are questionable," he said. "The biggest thing is do not let this game trickle over into a whole season. That would be the most frustrating thing."

It's always something with this team. :)

Wait, the Bengals offense did something unexpected and unpredictable?

I can get used to this.

Eric_the_Red
09-11-2011, 09:50 PM
Wait, the Bengals offense did something unexpected and unpredictable?


Yeah, they won. :laugh:

HeatherC1212
09-12-2011, 12:48 AM
Yeah, they won. :laugh:

Nicely played there, LOL ;)

Happy to see the Bengals play well today and I hope Dalton is OK for the next game. They don't seem overly worried about him and I think I read that the X-rays were negative. This was one weird weekend of sports for me! The one team I figured would win barely did (Ohio State) and then the Bengals played like an actual real team and won their game. Go figure, LOL :laugh:

GAC
09-12-2011, 07:28 AM
Luckily for Brown's fans, there's a viable excuse.

"They quick snapped us," Shurmur said. "I'll have to watch the tape, but it's my understanding they changed personnel, lined up and then quick snapped. There's rules that go along with that, so we'll see. My understanding is when the offense changes personnel, the defense is allowed to do so as well and have time to do it."

"It's kind of frustrating, but in my eyes some of those calls are questionable," he said. "The biggest thing is do not let this game trickle over into a whole season. That would be the most frustrating thing."

It's always something with this team. :)

I don't care if a majority of the Brown's D was still in the huddle, IMO, there is no viable excuse for the defense to not be on the guard and ready. None whatsoever because the offense controls the ball (snap).

Bengals won the 1st and 4th quarters. Browns won the 2nd and 3rd. And while there were some bright spots, it was a really blah game to watch (as I expected). I told a buddy that whoever is least penalized, and makes the least mistakes would win this one. We made tons of stupid mistakes in the 1st and 4th quarters.

My brother, who is a Bengals fan, was getting very frustrated as we watched the game. I told him to relax, you're only down 17-13, and the Browns find ways to lose in the last 5 minutes. They never disappoint me.

The SQUEALERS got totally humiliated. So I came home very happy! :p

Hoosier Red
09-12-2011, 09:04 AM
I agree GAC, was really surprised at the discipline of the Bengals. Perhaps it was just comparatively speaking, but the Bengals just didn't make that killer mistake they are known for.

bucksfan2
09-12-2011, 10:45 AM
My thoughts on the game:

-The offense came out with a game plan and executed it. It was refreshing to see that and refreshing to see it work.

-Only one bad TO, one questionable challenge. It was a good day for Marvin.

-Palmer has gobs more talent than Gradkowski but doesn't make that play late in the 4th. What a heady play by Bruce and the Bengals.

-Gradkowski is the type of QB who if you let hang in the game will make a play to beat you. It doesn't make up for the Oakland or TB game but it still brought a smile to my face.

-I liked what I saw with Dalton. Executed a game plan, didn't make any rookie mistakes, had better control of the huddle than Carson ever had.

-I got excited when the announcer compared AJ Green to Andre Johnson. I was impressed with Green hanging in there. When the Browns cheated and screwed him out of a TD in the 1st half and with Hayden holding him up and down the field he stayed in the game.

-Dalton to Gresham looks like a nice combo.

-Now only if Simpson could catch the ball.

-One final comment, holy Dunlap.

traderumor
09-12-2011, 11:39 AM
The only thing I can say, the first game of the post drama era was a success. Glad to hear that the Dalton injury appears to be minor.

hebroncougar
09-12-2011, 01:30 PM
My thoughts on the game:

-The offense came out with a game plan and executed it. It was refreshing to see that and refreshing to see it work.

-Only one bad TO, one questionable challenge. It was a good day for Marvin.

-Palmer has gobs more talent than Gradkowski but doesn't make that play late in the 4th. What a heady play by Bruce and the Bengals.

-Gradkowski is the type of QB who if you let hang in the game will make a play to beat you. It doesn't make up for the Oakland or TB game but it still brought a smile to my face.

-I liked what I saw with Dalton. Executed a game plan, didn't make any rookie mistakes, had better control of the huddle than Carson ever had.

-I got excited when the announcer compared AJ Green to Andre Johnson. I was impressed with Green hanging in there. When the Browns cheated and screwed him out of a TD in the 1st half and with Hayden holding him up and down the field he stayed in the game.

-Dalton to Gresham looks like a nice combo.

-Now only if Simpson could catch the ball.

-One final comment, holy Dunlap.

Sorry, but that is just not true. Palmer had some darned good comebacks himself. People need to turn the page on him. He's certainly not the reason this team was losing the past few years.

Hoosier Red
09-12-2011, 01:45 PM
Agreed Hebron,

In 2009 in particular, Carson Palmer made a ton of plays at the end of the game.
I think he was every bit equivalent to Bruce Gradkowski the last few years, but that's not really a complement.