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mrherd05
07-29-2011, 07:14 PM
Why trade Ramon for prospects or something.

Ramon is one of the top 5 catchers right now in the game, period, if you look at the numbers, and he is doing it at the Major League level.

DFA Hanigan, bring up Mez, and let them work together.

R_Webb18
07-29-2011, 07:17 PM
Why trade Ramon for prospects or something.

Ramon is one of the top 5 catchers right now in the game, period, if you look at the numbers, and he is doing it at the Major League level.

DFA Hanigan, bring up Mez, and let them work together.

huh? didnt we just sign hanigan?

Krawhitham
07-29-2011, 07:24 PM
Why trade Ramon for prospects or something.

Ramon is one of the top 5 catchers right now in the game, period, if you look at the numbers, and he is doing it at the Major League level.

DFA Hanigan, bring up Mez, and let them work together.

Because Razor is a FA after this season and they will no resign him with Mez in AAA.

Mez will start 80% of the games where Razor will cost more and only start about 50% of the games

Red Raindog
07-29-2011, 07:26 PM
Why trade Ramon for prospects or something.

Ramon is one of the top 5 catchers right now in the game, period, if you look at the numbers, and he is doing it at the Major League level.

DFA Hanigan, bring up Mez, and let them work together.

I don't see your suggestion happening -- Hanigan has not been the problem and if he was available would be very desired in the trade market.

Krawhitham
07-29-2011, 07:26 PM
huh? didnt we just sign hanigan?

Yes 3 year contract

11:$0.45M, 12:$1.2M, 13:$2.05M

mrherd05
07-29-2011, 07:27 PM
We are going to pay Ryan Hannigan over 2M in a given baseball season? WHAT???? WOW

R_Webb18
07-29-2011, 07:30 PM
We are going to pay Ryan Hannigan over 2M in a given baseball season? WHAT???? WOW

have you seen the reds mvp ss?

wlf WV
07-29-2011, 07:52 PM
The Reds tandem(Hernandez and Hanigan) has,I believe,been the 2nd most productive in the NL for the last two years.

redlegs2370
07-29-2011, 08:01 PM
I don't have the exact numbers but the pitching staff has a much better era with Hanigan catching than Ramon. That may be one reason of trading Ramon.

jnschel
07-29-2011, 08:08 PM
why would we consider DFA Hanigan? Keeping Ramon for the rest of the season does not make much sense.. if we lose tonight and slip further back i would have to believe he will leave town with the giants..
Hanigan calls a great game and can be one of the most clutch performers on the team, he will help Mesoraco mature more than Ramon in the long run

Vottomatic
07-29-2011, 08:09 PM
Trade Ramon and then resign him in the offseason, while picking up some awesome prospects for him!

izzy's dad
07-29-2011, 08:10 PM
Why trade Ramon for prospects or something.

Ramon is one of the top 5 catchers right now in the game, period, if you look at the numbers, and he is doing it at the Major League level.

DFA Hanigan, bring up Mez, and let them work together.

Hanigan is younger, cheaper, calls a better game, and at this point in their careers much better defensively than Ramon. The reason you trade Ramon is because he is performing well over his career norms. This means his value is at its peak, meaning a greater return if traded. He will not be resigned after this year because he is much more expensive than Ryan. A catchers job is not to be an offensive force. His (or her for the p.c. crowd) priority should always be to call a game, play top notch defense, and communicate effectively with the pitching staff. Hanigan does these things at an elite level. He walks much more than he strikes out. This is incredibly rare. Simply put, he is the better catcher right now. He plays his position better than his counter part. Ramon has been solid, and clutch, and I will be sad to see him go. But it is time to capitalize on his peak trade value and let Ryan and Mesoraco do the catching. By the way if we did designate Hanigan for assignment it would be exceedingly stupid. Sorry if my spelling sucks.

Tuff Nut
07-29-2011, 08:19 PM
Why trade Ramon for prospects or something.

Ramon is one of the top 5 catchers right now in the game, period, if you look at the numbers, and he is doing it at the Major League level.

DFA Hanigan, bring up Mez, and let them work together.
Ya trade Ramon because teams will give you something in return. I've been a fan of him since he got here, but Hanigan is very reliable and Mes is wasting away in AAA, and I'd rather see what the kid can do, and move on from there. Ramon isn't in the plans for the future, and the future couldn't be any closer to the present.

TheBigLebowski
07-29-2011, 08:30 PM
Did I just read that some advocates a DFA of Hanigan??? Huh???

scott91575
07-30-2011, 09:19 AM
Multiple reasons why you trade Hernandez. It's the final year of his contract (it was only 1 year to start with). He is right now a type A free agent. While that sounds great, here is the issue. He is 35. No team is looking to sign him long term. So that means a team would sign him at max for two years.

Now, let's look at the Reds angle. Hanigan signed through 2014, and Mesaraco ready for MLB. So, if you offer him arbitration and he takes it, the catching spot is really crowded.

Now let's look at the possibility of Hernandez accepting arbitration (something the Reds don't want). As a type A guy, Hernendez would take the arbitration in a heart beat. No team in their right mind would give a decent salary to a 35 year old catcher (who prior to joining the Reds had injury issues) and give up a top draft pick. His value would be destroyed in the free agent market, so he would take arbitration since he would probably get in that one year more than anyone in the free agent market would give him for 2 years (his max contract length).

So, it comes down to this. Hernandez will either get arbitration next year with a raise (not something this team can afford), or the Reds let him walk with nothing in return. In other words, if you trade him now you get something in return and head into next year with Hanigan and Mesaraco at C. Plus Mesaraco gets some experience that does not count against his free agent or arbitration clock assuming the plan is to start him at C from day 1 next year.

Girevik
07-30-2011, 09:38 AM
Multiple reasons why you trade Hernandez....

There's one reason you don't trade Hernandez. He's you're starting catcher and you think you can make the playoffs. That's the decision. If you think you're out of the playoffs then moving Coredero and Hernandez is a no-brainer. If you think you still have a shot you have to keep them.

Old NDN
07-30-2011, 01:17 PM
If the return is anything that is going to be useful for this team, then you trade him.

Old NDN
07-30-2011, 06:35 PM
If the Giants want him, maybe Torres for him. He should be expendable now that Beltran is there.

Girevik
07-30-2011, 09:15 PM
If the return is anything that is going to be useful for this team, then you trade him.

It most likely wouldn't be anythign that would help the Reds now. Any team after Ramon would be in the hunt and not want to move a peice that would affect their current team. It would almost have to be for prospects.

bshall2105
07-30-2011, 09:18 PM
If the Giants want him, maybe Torres for him. He should be expendable now that Beltran is there.

Torres does not make sense at all. We are looking for young starting pitching if we trade Ramon.

BluegrassRedleg
07-30-2011, 09:28 PM
I would miss Ramon. He's had a helluva season, making the most of his opportunities. More than almost anyone on the team (including Votto of 2011) I expect a professional AB from him when he's in the box.

He's got good value, though, so I hope he does well wherever he lands.

Old NDN
07-31-2011, 12:39 AM
Torres does not make sense at all. We are looking for young starting pitching if we trade Ramon.

A TRUE leadoff hitter?

Prf15
07-31-2011, 12:47 AM
Some of you guys are over-valuing Ramon Hernandez.

He is a solid starting catcher but he is a free agent after this season and is playing for a team who is 4th in their division. It is time to deal Hernandez for whatever they can get in return so the Reds can see if they are comfortable with a Mes/Hanigan tandem for next year. Maybe the Reds can pick up a mid level pitching prospect(Giants?) for him.

All moves that are considered from here on should have 2012 and beyond in mind. Hernandez does not fit the future plans, therefore, he should be dealt.

The DARK
07-31-2011, 12:53 AM
He's certainly in a position to be dealt. He's a cheap veteran at a premium position who's having an excellent year, with his backup locked up and one of the top prospects in baseball blocked behind him. The key is if we think he'll be able to put up better production and be better for our staff for the rest of the season if we think we'll be in playoff contention. Otherwise, a trade to a contender like the Giants would probably net a decent prospect and help our chances of trading for a major piece.

bshall2105
07-31-2011, 01:01 AM
A TRUE leadoff hitter?

33 years old

.322 on base%

.234 batting average

sdwagers
07-31-2011, 01:02 AM
Ramon is projecting to be a type A free agent. Walt must be planning to offer arbitration so he can get the two draft picks.

Mes will be a Sept call up and possibly ROY next year.

Prf15
07-31-2011, 01:07 AM
Ramon is projecting to be a type A free agent. Walt must be planning to offer arbitration so he can get the two draft picks.

Mes will be a Sept call up and possibly ROY next year.

That could be his plan, but would Ramon take the arbitration? Although I guess if he did, Walt could easily find a trade partner. There is always a team in need of a catcher, much less one who hit the cover off the ball the previous year.

HatchMo
07-31-2011, 03:47 AM
Keeping Ramon the rest of the year would be a complete boneheaded move
by walt. He's playing way over his career averages, and he's a FA at the end of the year, SF has a surplus of young pitching. We could get surkamp for him, and that would be a great pickup for us.

sdwagers
07-31-2011, 11:41 AM
Wondering if Ramon could clear waivers. Walt may try to deal him this time next month and make the price higher.

Redsnake
07-31-2011, 12:07 PM
Ramon is projecting to be a type A free agent. Walt must be planning to offer arbitration so he can get the two draft picks.

Mes will be a Sept call up and possibly ROY next year.

That is great point. If the Reds can't get something special in trade, then get draft choices for him. You can still bring up Mes like they do every year when the roster expands.

The DARK
07-31-2011, 12:16 PM
Ramon is projecting to be a type A free agent. Walt must be planning to offer arbitration so he can get the two draft picks.

Mes will be a Sept call up and possibly ROY next year.

And if he accepts the arbitration, which he would likely do? It would probably make him much more expensive than this year, and once again block Mesoraco and Grandal behind him. As attractive as draft picks sound, Hernandez is not someone that we need back for next year.

Krawhitham
07-31-2011, 01:35 PM
I don't have the exact numbers but the pitching staff has a much better era with Hanigan catching than Ramon. That may be one reason of trading Ramon.

4.11 vs 4.02

that is not MUCH better, better but not MUCH

sammonator
07-31-2011, 01:39 PM
Dusty Baker wants to keep veteran catcher Ramon Hernandez, even though prospect Devin Mesoraco may be better at this point and the Giants might give up a nice pitching piece for the backstop. (Heyman, SI.com)

Krawhitham
07-31-2011, 01:42 PM
Ramon is projecting to be a type A free agent. Walt must be planning to offer arbitration so he can get the two draft picks.

Mes will be a Sept call up and possibly ROY next year.

If they offer him arbitration he will take it, not really what the Reds want

dcameron24
07-31-2011, 01:42 PM
Dusty Baker wants to keep veteran catcher Ramon Hernandez, even though prospect Devin Mesoraco may be better at this point and the Giants might give up a nice pitching piece for the backstop. (Heyman, SI.com)

Mesoraco is not in the Bats lineup today...

More than likely just a day off, but you never know.

malcontent
07-31-2011, 01:43 PM
Dusty Baker wants to keep veteran catcher Ramon Hernandez, even though prospect Devin Mesoraco may be better at this point and the Giants might give up a nice pitching piece for the backstop. (Heyman, SI.com)
I can't wait till Baker is gone.

I absolutely believe that he was the impediment behind the waiting for Cozart drama.

dcameron24
07-31-2011, 01:46 PM
The guy writes for Bleacher Report:


NKapWSoxMLB Nick Kapetan
Source: #Reds catcher Ramon Hernandez to #Indians. Another deal for AL central team that's not the #WhiteSox #trades

Vottomatic
07-31-2011, 07:50 PM
I am surprised that Ramon wasn't dealt. Really surprised.

CrosleyField
07-31-2011, 09:59 PM
He is the one sell we probably should have made. Must not have been offered much?

sdwagers
07-31-2011, 10:22 PM
If they offer him arbitration he will take it, not really what the Reds want



totally agree, I think Walt is trying hold the clock on Mes. Love Ramon, but Mes should replace him next year, and hopefully the Reds can get something in return.