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foxfire123
07-31-2011, 12:46 PM
When the Reds are discussing a trade, it always seems like they want the sun, moon and stars fromt he Reds but when the same player eventually goes to another team, it's for 3 minor leaguers and a bag of tomatoes?

IE, the Jimenez discussions. When the Reds were talking about him, it was players like Wood, Heisey, Volquez, etc getting mentioned. All proven at the show level. But when Cleveland finally got him, it was for 3 minor league guys.....

Have the Reds ragingly PO'd the other GM's or something? Jeez.

(disclaimer, keep in mind this post is from someone who doesn't follow the business side of baseball much, and is partially tongue in cheek. Be gentle. :thumbup:

mroby85
07-31-2011, 12:49 PM
When the Reds are discussing a trade, it always seems like they want the sun, moon and stars fromt he Reds but when the same player eventually goes to another team, it's for 3 minor leaguers and a bag of tomatoes?

IE, the Jimenez discussions. When the Reds were talking about him, it was players like Wood, Heisey, Volquez, etc getting mentioned. All proven at the show level. But when Cleveland finally got him, it was for 3 minor league guys.....

Have the Reds ragingly PO'd the other GM's or something? Jeez.

(disclaimer, keep in mind this post is from someone who doesn't follow the business side of baseball much, and is partially tongue in cheek. Be gentle. :thumbup:

I can't say for sure, but probably because we're more familiar with our prospects than we are with their prospects. I kinda wonder how accurate the players named from the Reds were, because some of those trades just sounded unrealistic with the likes of Chapman, Yonder, Mesoraco, etc.

BakoTheTako
07-31-2011, 01:04 PM
Because Wood/Heisey/Volquez have proven they're bad at the MLB level.

brm7675
07-31-2011, 02:26 PM
It basically comes down to balls, good GM's are willing to take risks....

markymark69
07-31-2011, 02:58 PM
When the Reds are discussing a trade, it always seems like they want the sun, moon and stars fromt he Reds but when the same player eventually goes to another team, it's for 3 minor leaguers and a bag of tomatoes?

IE, the Jimenez discussions. When the Reds were talking about him, it was players like Wood, Heisey, Volquez, etc getting mentioned. All proven at the show level. But when Cleveland finally got him, it was for 3 minor league guys.....

Have the Reds ragingly PO'd the other GM's or something? Jeez.

(disclaimer, keep in mind this post is from someone who doesn't follow the business side of baseball much, and is partially tongue in cheek. Be gentle. :thumbup:


Cleveland had to give three of their top 10 prospects. Drew Pomeranz (the Tribe's No. 1 pick last year) is the likely player to be named later. Pretty steep.

If the Reds had given up three of their top 10 prospects and another player - this board would be calling for Walt's head.

He's pretty much darned if he does and darned if he doesn't.

brm7675
07-31-2011, 03:09 PM
They could have our No. 1 pick from this year, last year and the previous year if the return is a quality major league player.

jaydeebee21
07-31-2011, 03:16 PM
They could have our No. 1 pick from this year, last year and the previous year if the return is a quality major league player.

so you wanted to give up a key piece of the rotation in Mike Leake, who has an ERA of 3.89 compared to Ubaldo Jiminez which is 4.46.

Plus Yasmani Grandal and Robert Stephenson who isnt signed yet.

Seen as Stephenson is not signed, lets say the last 3 signed 1st round picks

would you really give up Leake, Grandal and Alonso for Jiminez?

R_Webb18
07-31-2011, 03:17 PM
so you wanted to give up a key piece of the rotation in Mike Leake, who has an ERA of 3.89 compared to Ubaldo Jiminez which is 4.46.

Plus Yasmani Grandal and Robert Stephenson who isnt signed yet.

Seen as Stephenson is not signed, lets say the last 3 signed 1st round picks

would you really give up Leake, Grandal and Alonso for Jiminez?

thats just stupid lol

brm7675
07-31-2011, 03:50 PM
so you wanted to give up a key piece of the rotation in Mike Leake, who has an ERA of 3.89 compared to Ubaldo Jiminez which is 4.46.

Plus Yasmani Grandal and Robert Stephenson who isnt signed yet.

Seen as Stephenson is not signed, lets say the last 3 signed 1st round picks

would you really give up Leake, Grandal and Alonso for Jiminez?

Not for Jiminez, but I would have offered Houston those 3 for Pence. Yonder will never be a full time player for the Reds with Dusty as the manager, Grandal is at least 3 years away, so you are giving up Leake for Pence, hell yes I do that deal.

webbbj
07-31-2011, 04:40 PM
Not for Jiminez, but I would have offered Houston those 3 for Pence. Yonder will never be a full time player for the Reds with Dusty as the manager, Grandal is at least 3 years away, so you are giving up Leake for Pence, hell yes I do that deal.

thank god ur not the GM.

for one leake for pence straight up is dumb. and even if grandal is 3 years away and yonder never starts hes a very valuable piece that should just be given away.

markymark69
07-31-2011, 05:09 PM
It's interesting about brm, the post had to with what the Indians gave up and what the Reds would have to give up for Jimenez - not Pence.

We don't know what the Reds offered for Pence and will likely never know. The Phillies also gave up two of their crown jewels to get Pence, btw.

That's the biggest problem I have with brm - he doesn't stay on topic - he just sees a chance to bang on the organization and takes it. It's a tired act.

We know all the coulda, shoulda, wouldas, we don't need multiple posts on a daily basis to realize that or to know your feelings about that.

Alonso will get his chance - I believe - but right now it's Heisey turn (which he is not really doing very well with it), which is what I thought brm wanted.

I know he'll say play Heisey in center - but Stubbs is actually playing well at the moment and unfortunately Alonso can't play shortstop. And Heisey, Stubbs and Bruce is far better defensively than Alonso, Heisey, Bruce.

FireDusty
07-31-2011, 05:13 PM
Because Wood/Heisey/Volquez have proven they're bad at the MLB level.
Really?

Wood? Heisey?

I'm not even ready to give up on Volquez, but just to humor you a little bit, I'll say I am close to giving up on Volquez.

FireDusty
07-31-2011, 05:17 PM
Not for Jiminez, but I would have offered Houston those 3 for Pence. Yonder will never be a full time player for the Reds with Dusty as the manager, Grandal is at least 3 years away, so you are giving up Leake for Pence, hell yes I do that deal.

Oh my god. :bowrofl:

webbbj
07-31-2011, 05:23 PM
Really?

Wood? Heisey?

I'm not even ready to give up on Volquez, but just to humor you a little bit, I'll say I am close to giving up on Volquez.

well they havent proven to be that good. they all have the ability to ML players so far neither is doing a good job at it.

Todd Gack
07-31-2011, 05:26 PM
From everything I've read on the web, the Indians gave up TOO much to get Jimenez.

FireDusty
07-31-2011, 05:27 PM
well they havent proven to be that good. they all have the ability to ML players so far neither is doing a good job at it.

Wood is a young lefty and they die very hard. He'll be around for a very long time and I hope the next 5 are with us.

I don't know about Heisey, but to say he has proven he is bad at the major league level is way of base.

Volquez may just be taking longer to get back from TJ surgury, or it could be a combination of factors, but we control him....so we aren't out anything trying to straighten him out.

webbbj
07-31-2011, 05:32 PM
well the post wasnt about what they can do its what they have done.

volquez got sent to the minors for a reason, same with wood, and heisey has been below average.

but yes they all can be very good very soon but the fact that they have shown struggles on the MLB level does not help their trade value.

Vottomatic
07-31-2011, 06:11 PM
Wood is a young lefty and they die very hard. He'll be around for a very long time and I hope the next 5 are with us.

I don't know about Heisey, but to say he has proven he is bad at the major league level is way of base.

Volquez may just be taking longer to get back from TJ surgury, or it could be a combination of factors, but we control him....so we aren't out anything trying to straighten him out.

Stubbs bats .250 with 10 HR's (or whatever he has) and everyone continues to talk about his potential. Stubbs has had a very long leash by management. He's like the chosen one or something.

Heisey bats .250 with 10 HR's or so, has not had a long leash or opportunity and so many people on this board want to give up on him.

Go figure that one out.

Vottomatic
07-31-2011, 06:15 PM
When the Reds are discussing a trade, it always seems like they want the sun, moon and stars fromt he Reds but when the same player eventually goes to another team, it's for 3 minor leaguers and a bag of tomatoes?

IE, the Jimenez discussions. When the Reds were talking about him, it was players like Wood, Heisey, Volquez, etc getting mentioned. All proven at the show level. But when Cleveland finally got him, it was for 3 minor league guys.....

Have the Reds ragingly PO'd the other GM's or something? Jeez.

(disclaimer, keep in mind this post is from someone who doesn't follow the business side of baseball much, and is partially tongue in cheek. Be gentle. :thumbup:

I agree. Seems like other teams always want more from the Reds.

I don't know who initiates these trade conversations.

But if I'm Reds management, next time, I let the trade partners come to me, if possible. Seems like any time we inquire, they want the moon from us.