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Krawhitham
07-31-2011, 05:53 PM
http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/2011/07/31/no-reds-trades-at-deadline/


No Reds trades at Deadline

The deadline came and went Sunday afternoon just after the Reds completed a three-game sweep of the Giants with a 9-0 win.

There will be a more detailed story on MLB.com/Reds.com soon….but Reds GM Walt Jocketty didn’t have any deals close to fruition on Sunday.

“We thought we were maybe yesterday. In the end, it probably was not as close as we thought it was,” Jocketty said. “We tried working on a number of big deals and some of the guys that were traded, we were in on most of them. Some of the requests for us, we felt were ridiculous and a lot more than we were willing to pay.”

The big issue was that team were asking for some coveted Reds prospects.

“Not just one or two,” Jocketty said. “It just didn’t make good sense for us in the short term or the long term. So we pulled back. We still believe we have enough talent here to win the division. I think we have to play better and I think this weekend was a great indication of what this team is capable of doing.”

Jocketty believed that talks with Houston fizzled over the Astros’ reluctance to deal within their division.

“I think that was a big part of it,” he said. “I think that’s why they asked for a lot more from us than what they got.”

http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/2011/07/31/no-reds-trades-at-deadline/

Todd Gack
07-31-2011, 05:57 PM
Oh boy.

So who should've we overpaid for?

webbbj
07-31-2011, 05:58 PM
hes correct we do have enough to win this division

Girevik
07-31-2011, 05:58 PM
Based on your highlighting, you're not suggesting his "excuse" is that they have enough talent to win the division are you?

CrosleyField
07-31-2011, 06:05 PM
Sometimes the best trades are those not made. Although Alonso, Grande, Wood and Volquez should be pretty good trade bait.

But I agree we shouldn't trade a dollar for a quarter.

FireDusty
07-31-2011, 06:06 PM
I prefer to call it the Walt reason.

Can you please tell me the trades you would have made?

R_Webb18
07-31-2011, 06:19 PM
I prefer to call it the Walt reason.

Can you please tell me the trades you would have made?

this. i wanted a move but every1 besides sheilds was good but nothing great imo.

Todd Gack
07-31-2011, 06:25 PM
I'll disagree with Walt on one issue. He's right that we have enough to win the division. But I don't care about simply winning the division.

webbbj
07-31-2011, 06:29 PM
I'll disagree with Walt on one issue. He's right that we have enough to win the division. But I don't care about simply winning the division.

and is there a player that would be the diference btw 1st rd exit and WS? I doubted.

i think were one more top level pitcher and above average bat and a manager away from that.

Totally agree we should no be trading our prospects $.50 on the dollar we should be looking to gain equal or greater equity on them regardless if they are position blocked or not.

Krawhitham
07-31-2011, 06:32 PM
Last season the excuse for no trades was we were a year ahead of schedule, 2011 is our year.

Now suddenly we have enough to win division, if you just look over the fact we are 6.5 games back with 3 teams in front of us

They need a consistent bat, Votto is the only consistent hitter they have. Sure Bruce, Stubbs, Phillips can go on streaks that can carry a team but the streaks are few and far between.

Hunter went for 2 A minor leaguers, 1 AA minor leaguer & CASH, tell me Walt could not have matched that. None of the 3 have great minor league numbers, solid but nothing overwhelming

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=cosart001jar
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=single001jon
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=zeid--001jos

webbbj
07-31-2011, 06:34 PM
sure he could have traded for pence if he decided to overpay and not get = equity in return.

CrosleyField
07-31-2011, 06:39 PM
Just glad we didn't have a fire sale like 2003.

LeDoux
07-31-2011, 06:52 PM
Going into the last few days I was hoping they could pick up an arm and trade Hernadez if the return was right. But I agree with the majority opinion on here that I doesn't look like there were good deals to be had. I am disapointed, but what do you do?

Vottomatic
07-31-2011, 07:05 PM
The Reds will fail to win the division because of the lack of moves earlier in the season allowing Gomes, Janish and Renteria to drag down the batting order, and Dusty's stupid positioning of them in the lineup.

They won't fail to win it because of not dealing at the trade deadline.

I honestly didn't like most of the proposed trades anyway.

And for some reason, it seems like potential trading partners want more from the Reds than they want from other teams, I guess because our farm system is doing so well.

I'm not up for getting fleeced.

I'm not upset at all. And yes, sometimes the best trades are the ones you didn't make.

I will be upset this offseason if they fail to address the obvious needs again.

hhscarletgray
07-31-2011, 07:11 PM
I'm glad to see some reason on here. Sure, the Reds could have used an upgrade here and there, but it's not worth paying through the nose to get. Getting Shields, Jimenez or Pence sounds great until you look at the price tag. The Reds not may be a better team in 2011 because of this years trade deadline, but they will be a much better team in 2012 and beyond because of it. Of course none of this takes into account that the reason the Reds have these holes to fill is because Walt sat on his hands the entire off season. Let's hope the struggles of this year mixed in with some real promise will entice Walt to do some work this winter and make this club a bona fide World Series contender.

Brisco
07-31-2011, 07:28 PM
Just thought I would bring back a thread from the last time the board was frustrated that Walt did nothing.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87128

I think Walt's quote at the beginning of this thread speaks in support of my theory. I think other GMs are4 so afraid of being the latest fleecing victim of Walt Jocketty that they demand a much higher price from the Reds than from other teams.

wojo1025
07-31-2011, 07:54 PM
Last season the excuse for no trades was we were a year ahead of schedule, 2011 is our year.

Now suddenly we have enough to win division, if you just look over the fact we are 6.5 games back with 3 teams in front of us

They need a consistent bat, Votto is the only consistent hitter they have. Sure Bruce, Stubbs, Phillips can go on streaks that can carry a team but the streaks are few and far between.

Hunter went for 2 A minor leaguers, 1 AA minor leaguer & CASH, tell me Walt could not have matched that. None of the 3 have great minor league numbers, solid but nothing overwhelming

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=cosart001jar
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=single001jon
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=zeid--001jos


He clearly said the Astros were asking more from the Reds than they were from other teams. Yes, Phillies got Pence but it took some solid minor leaguers to get him. Would you have been willing to give up a #1 pitching prospect, plus Alonso, plus another prospect for Pence? I wouldn't.

I would've have minded seeing something done to add to the back end of the rotation and/or middle relief. I would've loved to somehow pickup Upton. But ... they didn't ... and I'm ok with that too. I'd rather not pay at all rather than overpay.

brm7675
07-31-2011, 08:00 PM
I really really think Walt needs to seek out professional help. I am very concerned with his mental ability at this point. Either he has lost it, or has not seen how pro sports are handled today. First, to actually think that right now with the structure/management running this team it can win the division shows a clear inabilit to judge talent and ability. Second to think your minor league players are going to save you and your franchise is laughable. The % of prospects that end up being very good to great ML performers is very low. Also fans want winning now, they don't give a rats butt about the future, which is what Walt is thinking. Wake up Walt, this isn't 70's baseball anymore, your "type" of running a team doesn't work.

brm7675
07-31-2011, 08:01 PM
He clearly said the Astros were asking more from the Reds than they were from other teams. Yes, Phillies got Pence but it took some solid minor leaguers to get him. Would you have been willing to give up a #1 pitching prospect, plus Alonso, plus another prospect for Pence? I wouldn't.

I would offered them either Leake or Wood along with Yonder and Hamilton and even another b level prospect and I really love both Leake and Wood.

I would've have minded seeing something done to add to the back end of the rotation and/or middle relief. I would've loved to somehow pickup Upton. But ... they didn't ... and I'm ok with that too. I'd rather not pay at all rather than overpay.

FireDusty
07-31-2011, 08:10 PM
I really really think Walt needs to seek out professional help. I am very concerned with his mental ability at this point. Either he has lost it, or has not seen how pro sports are handled today. First, to actually think that right now with the structure/management running this team it can win the division shows a clear inabilit to judge talent and ability. Second to think your minor league players are going to save you and your franchise is laughable. The % of prospects that end up being very good to great ML performers is very low. Also fans want winning now, they don't give a rats butt about the future, which is what Walt is thinking. Wake up Walt, this isn't 70's baseball anymore, your "type" of running a team doesn't work.


Maybe the most uninformed, innacurate post I have ever seen.

If you were running this team, we'd be 54-108 within 3 years. You would have traded Votto, Bruce and Cueto for Eric Bedard in 2008.

Your post is a "How to" of how to fail.

Unbelievable that the word "wrong" could be used to describe each sentence.

Rarely have I ever seen a post that is 100% without any merit. This qualifies.

dougflynn23
07-31-2011, 08:58 PM
If the deals we chose not to make involved Michael Bourn, I am glad we chose not to pull the trigger. I have a bad reaction to investing either dollars or young talent in a trade for a player who is one wrong step on a base or one bad slide from losing 100% of his value.

Now if it was Hunter Pence we are talking about.....I'd have stayed in the poker game on that hand!

Girevik
07-31-2011, 09:05 PM
Last season the excuse for no trades was we were a year ahead of schedule, 2011 is our year.

Now suddenly we have enough to win division, if you just look over the fact we are 6.5 games back with 3 teams in front of us


Did you even read the article? He said he tried to make deas but the REASON he didn't was that teams were asking too much. The Astros in particular were asking more from the Reds than from other teams since they are in the same division. He then went on to say that DESPITE not being able to make a deal, he still thinks they have enough talent to win the Central.

powersackers
07-31-2011, 09:09 PM
Yes, just like everyone else. Throw out the Beddard 'no trade' to defend our having to keep sending out Arroyo, Stubbs (today is an exception - somehow he guessed well today), and an average LFer and SS and an aging somewhat worthless offensively 3b out there everyday when we could have any number of other available above average players like Shields/Ubaldo/Fister/Pauley/Hairston Jr., Hunter Pence/Willingham/Luckwick, Fucal, Aviles.... I could go on and on and on.

We have holes/gaps right now, 2011 is calling, and we have no smarts to fill the holes when the glorious pool of prospects we have are blocked and useless to us.

Grandal, Alsonso, Wood, Hamilton should all be gone for 2011 pieces while they are hot and I would wish them all luck. Instead we're going to waste them all another 12 mos. And watch our 2011 Reds flounder to make the playoffs or flounder in them. Either way, it's sad.

Go Reds! on this disappointing day, I still love them!

wlf WV
07-31-2011, 09:38 PM
I would of traded Chapman or Mez + Alonso for Shields;not both.Unfortunately,I suppose it would of taken both and more.

redssince75
07-31-2011, 09:40 PM
Hunter went for 2 A minor leaguers, 1 AA minor leaguer & CASH, tell me Walt could not have matched that. None of the 3 have great minor league numbers, solid but nothing overwhelming


He already said right in the interview the Astros asked more from us than they did from others, so how could we have matched that? (He also might have been referring to Bourne to Atlanta).

BurgervilleBuck
07-31-2011, 09:45 PM
Just glad we didn't have a fire sale like 2003.

Oy... I still am haunted by visions of Hummel and Smitherman and Sardinha....

R_Webb18
07-31-2011, 09:55 PM
I would of traded Chapman or Mez + Alonso for Shields;not both.Unfortunately,I suppose it would of taken both and more.

ur insane

markymark69
07-31-2011, 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by brm7675
I really really think Walt needs to seek out professional help. I am very concerned with his mental ability at this point. Either he has lost it, or has not seen how pro sports are handled today. First, to actually think that right now with the structure/management running this team it can win the division shows a clear inabilit to judge talent and ability. Second to think your minor league players are going to save you and your franchise is laughable. The % of prospects that end up being very good to great ML performers is very low. Also fans want winning now, they don't give a rats butt about the future, which is what Walt is thinking. Wake up Walt, this isn't 70's baseball anymore, your "type" of running a team doesn't work.

This from the guy last year who was ready stone anybody because they wanted to give up for the future for Cliff Lee. This year, he wants to trade anybody and everybody.

Thanks again for being consistently being inconsistent.

Moosie52
07-31-2011, 10:06 PM
Walt knows what he's doing.

goreds18
07-31-2011, 10:13 PM
The only thing I thought he should have done was trade Ramon for some pitching. But if the value wasn't there I'm okay with that. I'm glad we didn't give away top prospects for anybody else because I don't think anyone was worth it.

Vottomatic
07-31-2011, 10:17 PM
Originally Posted by brm7675
I really really think Walt needs to seek out professional help. I am very concerned with his mental ability at this point. Either he has lost it, or has not seen how pro sports are handled today. First, to actually think that right now with the structure/management running this team it can win the division shows a clear inabilit to judge talent and ability. Second to think your minor league players are going to save you and your franchise is laughable. The % of prospects that end up being very good to great ML performers is very low. Also fans want winning now, they don't give a rats butt about the future, which is what Walt is thinking. Wake up Walt, this isn't 70's baseball anymore, your "type" of running a team doesn't work.

This from the guy last year who was ready stone anybody because they wanted to give up for the future for Cliff Lee. This year, he wants to trade anybody and everybody.

Thanks again for being consistently being inconsistent.

Walt needs to seek professional help? That's the pot calling the kettle black, isn't it? :laugh:

webbbj
07-31-2011, 10:17 PM
Yes, just like everyone else. Throw out the Beddard 'no trade' to defend our having to keep sending out Arroyo, Stubbs (today is an exception - somehow he guessed well today), and an average LFer and SS and an aging somewhat worthless offensively 3b out there everyday when we could have any number of other available above average players like Shields/Ubaldo/Fister/Pauley/Hairston Jr., Hunter Pence/Willingham/Luckwick, Fucal, Aviles.... I could go on and on and on.



you realize every position player you mentioned - Pence would be a on par with what we have or a downgrade?