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Edskin
08-04-2011, 12:05 AM
Is it ok to vent on the ORG? I know people complain a lot, but I'm talking a good ole' fashion venting that serves no purpose other than to maybe make me feel better and maybe make some of you feel better as well in the vein of misery loves company. Well, that's what I'm about to do.

This has been my least favorite/least enjoyable Reds season in probably 15 years. Maybe one or two seasons in The Lost Decade were worse, but this has just been a total and utter nightmare.

Marty said it very well tonight... "sometimes it looks like this team has never played the game before."

Our MVP first basemen makes three "errors" on one play, two mental and one physical... Looks to throw to second on a soft bunt, doesn't respect the speed of the runner, and then lobs a lollipop to first base. Completely as totally avoidable by simply having your head in the game.

And this is not meant as a pile on to Votto... He's been a bright spot overall and really shoulders no real blame for this season, but that play was sort of a microcosm of the year.

Ive cussed at the Reds a lot over the years but I'm not sure ive said "what the _____ is he doing?" so many times as I have this year.

It's been bafflingly (is that a word?) bad? Everything Dusty has done this year turns to mush. Every button he pushes causes a short circuit. If he said "heads" and flipped a coin ten times, Im thinking tails ten times in a row.

It's been a perfect storm of bad play, bad managing, and bad luck. Walt also deserves blame for a few off season gambles that have not worked out.

I have never been less confident at the end of games as I have been this year. It's absurd.

Still pretty happy with where we are as an organization, but ten years of
Misery followed by one great year and then a total tank job doesn't inspire much confidence going forward, even if many of the pieces look good on paper.

Thank God the NFL lockout ended because I think I'd rather watch The 4th quarter of Panthers-Raiders in the preseason than stomach the Reds at this point.

What a miserable, and really useless, season it has been.

Tom Servo
08-04-2011, 12:25 AM
Can we have a mulligan on this season?

kaldaniels
08-04-2011, 12:31 AM
Looking into the crystal ball here....

For the 2012/2013 seasons...the Reds will run away with the division one year, and will be in a dogfight for the crown one year.

This is the year that everything just went wrong. The most optimistic odds at the beginning of this season would be that the Reds had a 50 percent shot of winning the division. Well guess what, this year we called "heads" and the coin landed "tails". It happens. Painful, but it happens.

CrackerJack
08-04-2011, 12:38 AM
I sort of expected this result, but hoped it wouldn't actually happen, I know I'm not alone. They relied way too much on guys repeating career or close-to career years (Votto, Arroyo) turning into gold (Bruce, Stubbs, Wood, Bailey, EV) and for some reason thought Rolen was still capable of swinging a bat for a full season, or even half of one.

Yes they're in good shape, but it's time to make some smart moves or just fade away for another 5 years. It'll take 3-4 guys, at least, that they don't have, plus the improvement and promotion of guys they do.

With the attendance increase this year, the fans should be rewarded with some better effort and risk on Bob/Walt's part, but I guess that's a given.

Reds1
08-04-2011, 01:16 AM
I have to say I agree. It's been such a disappointing season. It's like everything they do wrong is always magnified. Willis has actually done a good job, but the reds find ways to lose for him. I'm going to bed. Tonight was very....well, you know!

Slyder
08-04-2011, 01:19 AM
Anyone think that this sort of Jeckyll/Hyde games could be attributed IN PART to Dusty's hand's off type of managing?

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-04-2011, 01:30 AM
Looking into the crystal ball here....

For the 2012/2013 seasons...the Reds will run away with the division one year, and will be in a dogfight for the crown one year.

This is the year that everything just went wrong. The most optimistic odds at the beginning of this season would be that the Reds had a 50 percent shot of winning the division. Well guess what, this year we called "heads" and the coin landed "tails". It happens. Painful, but it happens.

It's possible, but this organization absolutely cannot afford another lackadaisical offseason like the last one. There are obvious moves that need to be made. Make them.

The front office strategy this winter absolutely cannot be hoping that Fielder and Pujols are playing elsewhere next summer.

nemesis
08-04-2011, 01:50 AM
After losing 2 of 3 to the Astros and not gaining 1 game in the "easy" part of te schedule so far, it's time for a all in move.

By all in, I mean:

Playing only those players who figure in to 2012. Getting them valuable AB's to help offset the learning curve of the Majors.

This means no playing Renteria just cause he is hot. He won't be here next year and every AB he gets over Cozart when he returns, is a infringement on his development towards next year.

DL Arroyo, move Willis to the BP and call up Wood.

Willis has had some great starts so far as a Red. That being said, I don't see him as a fixture in the Reds rotation next year. I don't see him coming back on another Minor League deal. Get Wood back up here and see what he can do for the remainder of the year. You gave Leake a second chance, Wood deserves one also.

Start piggy backing Chapman in the rotation.

Have him go 2, then 3 then 4 then 5 and cap it there for the remainder of the season. If this team is to contend in 2012, a arm like Chapman's in the rotation would go a long way to help.

Decide on Votto.

If your going to move him, do it this offseason. A team like the Angels would give a arm and a leg to have the guy for 2 years. Think Votto, Bailey and Heisey for Haren and Trout.

Call up Mesoraco.

Yep the pitchers would have to learn a new catcher and vice versa, but it has to happen at some point. Hanigan is looking tired at the plate and Ramon still could net you a prospect. A call up would help Mesoraco learn the pitchers this year when it doesn't matter in the standings and give the Reds a nice RH Power bat in the 6 hole.

Who is Rolen's Caddy?

Rolen probably won't be back this year and next year is his last hurrah. He needs to be kept at about 80 to 100 games. Cairo has be a god send this year, but he too will be gone after next year. So making him Rolen's exclusive caddy is not really prudent moving into 2013 and beyond. Is it Francisco or Frazier? Make a choice and get him on the roster.

The Reds record should be irrelevant at this point. Sure we all would like to see them win some games and finish over .500, but, if going 72 - 90 means the kids get to play, get experience and the team has a better grip of how the off season needs to go than finishing 82 - 80 with players who won't be here, I'll take 72 and 90.

Continuing to play vets over the rooks at this point would be the last nail in the coffin for Dusty to me.

reds44
08-04-2011, 01:58 AM
I just wish the season would end. This season has been awful. I know the politically correct answer is oh I love baseball and all that, but after the first 5 games of this season it has been zero fun.


If your going to move him, do it this offseason. A team like the Angels would give a arm and a leg to have the guy for 2 years. Think Votto, Bailey and Heisey for Haren and Trout.
Oh for the love of God no.

SirFelixCat
08-04-2011, 02:22 AM
Decide on Votto.

If your going to move him, do it this offseason. A team like the Angels would give a arm and a leg to have the guy for 2 years. Think Votto, Bailey and Heisey for Haren and Trout.


I agree with most of your post, but the above...no. You want Haren? The same guy who couldn't pass a physical and couldn't get traded at the deadline??? And Votto plus pieces for him and Trout? Just...no.



I just wish the season would end. This season has been awful. I know the politically correct answer is oh I love baseball and all that, but after the first 5 games of this season it has been zero fun.



Yup, this pretty much sums it up for me too. This has been the least enjoyable season in memory. I guess because we had almost no expectations the previous decade, but this year, we expected more. This has just been no fun whatsoever this season.:(

Guacarock
08-04-2011, 03:00 AM
This team is so frustrating and fundamentally flawed that not even a fresh infusion of talent from Louisville is going to make it any fun to watch the Reds for the balance of this wretched season. Truly drastic measures are called for. Forget about elevating Mesoraco, Sappelt or Hermida. Time to summon the Fembots.

http://youtu.be/zTv9AhCuSU4

Dan
08-04-2011, 06:45 AM
If anyone wants a little solace for this season, go look at the 1971 Reds. All those great players, coming off a World Series loss, finished 79-83. Their roster was filled with young guys. The oldest starting pitcher was 27. The oldest position player was 30. I liken this season to that one.

And this team only need go 25-26 the rest of the way to match them.

MikeThierry
08-04-2011, 07:38 AM
Thank God the NFL lockout ended because I think I'd rather watch The 4th quarter of Panthers-Raiders in the preseason than stomach the Reds at this point.

So watching the Bengals will ease your frustration? I would think that watching them along with how the Reds have been playing is a formula for alcohol abuse. :laugh:

Ghosts of 1990
08-04-2011, 08:29 AM
It's been a miserable season, you are right about that. I didn't enjoy any point of it. I don't know what it was but I think this team needs re-built. I believe Votto wants out, Stubbs and Bruce are not the type of guys you can build around. If I think that you can bet the FO has seen that exhibited.

It's just been a downright awful season in every way imaginable, make me realize how truly good we had it in 2010

LoganBuck
08-04-2011, 08:55 AM
So watching the Bengals will ease your frustration? I would think that watching them along with how the Reds have been playing is a formula for alcohol abuse. :laugh:

The only thing I can think of more frustrating to watch than the Reds recently, is ESPN covering the Jim Tressel fiasco at Ohio State. Now that is/was alcohol and razor blades.

Baffling plays, managerial moves, and front office gridlock.

Sure makes the move to hold onto Ramon Hernandez worth it, doesn't it?

I labeled a game two weeks ago as must win. Chided by the "not anymore than the other 162 crowd" since that point they get swept by the Mets, sweep the Giants, and then get it handed to them by the Astros. The freaking Astros.

Bring on preseason football.

Dan
08-04-2011, 09:07 AM
So watching the Bengals will ease your frustration? I would think that watching them along with how the Reds have been playing is a formula for alcohol abuse. :laugh:

Who needs a formula for that? :thumbup::beerme:

Hoosier Red
08-04-2011, 09:35 AM
So watching the Bengals will ease your frustration? I would think that watching them along with how the Reds have been playing is a formula for alcohol abuse. :laugh:

I think Ed's a Redskins fan. Not that it's much better. Sort of like being the Dodgers versus the Pirates. Depressing for a whole different host of problems.

Roy Tucker
08-04-2011, 09:56 AM
I just wish the season would end. This season has been awful. I know the politically correct answer is oh I love baseball and all that, but after the first 5 games of this season it has been zero fun.




I know I seem part of the "politically correct" crowd and say a season is worth following no matter what. I don't mean or intend to squash frustration or analysis or any discussion. My problem is, I really do feel that way.

Sure I want them to win and make the playoffs and gloriously sweep through the playoffs and see a world championship celebration at Fountain Square. I whoop when Willis hits a HR to apparently win his own game and see his very human face glow with satisfaction and feel so great for him knowing what he's been through. And I mutter and swear watching Masset throw 4 straight balls to a leadoff hitter. And fume and curse as I watch games click by and this talented but flawed team flounder and not find its stride.

But I feel that's all the lot of a baseball fan. You experience all those things. You get pulled around like a yo-yo. Sometimes in the course of a single pitch-by-pitch AB or an inning or a stretch of a ballgame or a week or a month or a season. Or, a body of experience consisting of years and years worth of seasons with all those micro ABs and games and series and months of baseball.

I think it used to get to me really bad. Games would get lost in a bad way and I'd carry the emotional baggage of it around with me for days. I'd be in a black mood and feel like heaving my TV out the window from a 10 story building. Conversely, I'd walk on air when a big win happened. But as I acquired gray hair and wrinkles and this roll of lard around my middle, I also acquired the sense of proportion of "hey dummy, you've seen this before, you know what it is, you know how it fits in, you know it runs in cycles, so be patient and quit your whining you big bozo".

I guess I view it as living a more full life. Its like having children. They are a source of huge joy and great satisfaction, but can also be a source of worry and disappointment. And it all develops over a period of years. But it also forces you to go "all-in" and participate in the festival of life with all of its ups and downs. Baseball is kinda like that. Either you accept the roller coaster ride and hold your arms up in the air over the big humps and hang on for dear life around the high-G turns or you stand by the fence and watch others ride the ride.

RANDY IN INDY
08-04-2011, 10:17 AM
Felt real bad for Dontrelle Willis, last night. Pitched a nice game. Hit a homerun that should have sparked the club, maybe the season, and Nick Massett comes in and walks the first batter he faces. Then, Votto makes a terrible play. Really frustrating to watch.

Mario-Rijo
08-04-2011, 10:24 AM
I sort of expected this result, but hoped it wouldn't actually happen, I know I'm not alone. They relied way too much on guys repeating career or close-to career years (Votto, Arroyo) turning into gold (Bruce, Stubbs, Wood, Bailey, EV) and for some reason thought Rolen was still capable of swinging a bat for a full season, or even half of one.

Yes they're in good shape, but it's time to make some smart moves or just fade away for another 5 years. It'll take 3-4 guys, at least, that they don't have, plus the improvement and promotion of guys they do.

With the attendance increase this year, the fans should be rewarded with some better effort and risk on Bob/Walt's part, but I guess that's a given.

Agree with your main point here. While some of us were a bit skeptical about some of these things you list (and some other things you didn't) the GM should be right on top of a self team evaluation and clearly these guys alone weren't good enough to get it done. Which is why they look listless often times, they just can't do enough to win and it's lead to pressing and forcing alot of errors/mental lapses which in turns creates more issues. I still believe a key acquisition (and no key defections) can still make this team play well enough to keep the momentum of the fans coming into next year but it needs done before Spring Training. The whole key to continued success is keeping the fans interested and this play isn't doing it.

That said I don't believe it will take 3-4 guys we don't have. But short of a serious key cog yeah it might. They need to make a move for an ACE (or close to it) or a serious middle of the order bat. And as I outlined in the Votto for Bautista thread Bautista could be that guy but not if it costs us anything more than prospects/redundant major leaguers. No Votto, No Bruce, No Cueto going out the door. Adding Sappelt and Mes to our team along with Bautista in conjuction without losing anyone of serious note from the current major league team and with potential losses from our main competition (Pujols & Fielder) and we are not just sitting pretty we are the team to beat in the central.

Mario-Rijo
08-04-2011, 10:27 AM
I know I seem part of the "politically correct" crowd and say a season is worth following no matter what. I don't mean or intend to squash frustration or analysis or any discussion. My problem is, I really do feel that way.

Sure I want them to win and make the playoffs and gloriously sweep through the playoffs and see a world championship celebration at Fountain Square. I whoop when Willis hits a HR to apparently win his own game and see his very human face glow with satisfaction and feel so great for him knowing what he's been through. And I mutter and swear watching Masset throw 4 straight balls to a leadoff hitter. And fume and curse as I watch games click by and this talented but flawed team flounder and not find its stride.

But I feel that's all the lot of a baseball fan. You experience all those things. You get pulled around like a yo-yo. Sometimes in the course of a single pitch-by-pitch AB or an inning or a stretch of a ballgame or a week or a month or a season. Or, a body of experience consisting of years and years worth of seasons with all those micro ABs and games and series and months of baseball.

I think it used to get to me really bad. Games would get lost in a bad way and I'd carry the emotional baggage of it around with me for days. I'd be in a black mood and feel like heaving my TV out the window from a 10 story building. Conversely, I'd walk on air when a big win happened. But as I acquired gray hair and wrinkles and this roll of lard around my middle, I also acquired the sense of proportion of "hey dummy, you've seen this before, you know what it is, you know how it fits in, you know it runs in cycles, so be patient and quit your whining you big bozo".

I guess I view it as living a more full life. Its like having children. They are a source of huge joy and great satisfaction, but can also be a source of worry and disappointment. And it all develops over a period of years. But it also forces you to go "all-in" and participate in the festival of life with all of its ups and downs. Baseball is kinda like that. Either you accept the roller coaster ride and hold your arms up in the air over the big humps and hang on for dear life around the high-G turns or you stand by the fence and watch others ride the ride.

Great post Roy! And though this series has really disappointed me and dropped my belief a great deal, my gut is telling me not to step away for the season just yet.

westofyou
08-04-2011, 10:33 AM
I know I seem part of the "politically correct" crowd and say a season is worth following no matter what. I don't mean or intend to squash frustration or analysis or any discussion. My problem is, I really do feel that way.

Sure I want them to win and make the playoffs and gloriously sweep through the playoffs and see a world championship celebration at Fountain Square. I whoop when Willis hits a HR to apparently win his own game and see his very human face glow with satisfaction and feel so great for him knowing what he's been through. And I mutter and swear watching Masset throw 4 straight balls to a leadoff hitter. And fume and curse as I watch games click by and this talented but flawed team flounder and not find its stride.

But I feel that's all the lot of a baseball fan. You experience all those things. You get pulled around like a yo-yo. Sometimes in the course of a single pitch-by-pitch AB or an inning or a stretch of a ballgame or a week or a month or a season. Or, a body of experience consisting of years and years worth of seasons with all those micro ABs and games and series and months of baseball.

I think it used to get to me really bad. Games would get lost in a bad way and I'd carry the emotional baggage of it around with me for days. I'd be in a black mood and feel like heaving my TV out the window from a 10 story building. Conversely, I'd walk on air when a big win happened. But as I acquired gray hair and wrinkles and this roll of lard around my middle, I also acquired the sense of proportion of "hey dummy, you've seen this before, you know what it is, you know how it fits in, you know it runs in cycles, so be patient and quit your whining you big bozo".

I guess I view it as living a more full life. Its like having children. They are a source of huge joy and great satisfaction, but can also be a source of worry and disappointment. And it all develops over a period of years. But it also forces you to go "all-in" and participate in the festival of life with all of its ups and downs. Baseball is kinda like that. Either you accept the roller coaster ride and hold your arms up in the air over the big humps and hang on for dear life around the high-G turns or you stand by the fence and watch others ride the ride.

+ one

Life is not all roses, that's for sure.

I'd rather watch all the Astros games the rest of the season than 1 minute of NFL football, mostly because I love baseball a million times more than any back and forth contest... and even though the Reds are middling and yanking me around I know that as a baseball fan the last 3 months of the season is worth my attention, one never learns about the game just focusing on one aspect (Reds, stats, hitting, pitching, etc)... especially the Reds.

cumberlandreds
08-04-2011, 10:41 AM
+ one

Life is not all roses, that's for sure.

I'd rather watch all the Astros games the rest of the season than 1 minute of NFL football, mostly because I love baseball a million times more than any back and forth contest... and even though the Reds are middling and yanking me around I know that as a baseball fan the last 3 months of the season is worth my attention, one never learns about the game just focusing on one aspect (Reds, stats, hitting, pitching, etc)... especially the Reds.

I'm the same way. I would rather watch bad baseball games than the NFL most days. I enjoy the season for what its worth from beginning to end. It's fun watching teams progress and frustrating watching them regress. But that's life for all of us and I equate it with that more than anything. Probably too sentimental here, but I look at the end of a season as another mark in time. Another year has passed and I'm another year older and gone from my life. I used to be the same way when I was younger. When the Big Red Machine started regressing in the late 70's and into the 80's I started wanting the seasons over as quickly as possible too. It's called being young and too impatient. As you get older you look at things differently and enjoy things for that they are and not what you want them to be.

Kc61
08-04-2011, 10:57 AM
It's hard to live with terrible losses multiple times every week.

But what makes this season worse is the failure of the front office to try to address these issues.

The inaction and platitudes from the front office can drive a fan nuts. Here's a talented group which took a major step in 2010 yet sits on its hands last off-season and again this trade deadline. No meaningful free agents. No meaningful trades.

The team is slow in promoting guys from AAA. Even now, some of the guys like Frazier would likely still be at AAA but for injuries.

Many teams in the Reds' position would have changed managers by now.

Most teams in the Reds position would at this point be selling off veteran free agents, at least to get some value while the pennant races are still going on and there is a demand for guys like Razor and perhaps Cordero.

The front office's position is that the Reds are still in the race, a platitude that is clearly not accurate. And the front office continues to do nothing to improve the team, for this year or for next. Just trot out the same guys, the same manager, the same results, with virtually no changes.

To me, this inaction just makes it far worse. Most of the games are simply repetitions of previous ones. Heartbreaking losses against inferior competition several nights a week.

So you start to watch less and, when the game is on, concentrate less.

And from the recent attendance in the game threads, the Reds may be losing their audience.

dfs
08-04-2011, 11:23 AM
Nemesis wrote...

This means no playing Renteria just cause he is hot. Cozart is still hurt. You want to see more of Janish? I really don't.

DL Arroyo, move Willis to the BP and call up Wood. I don't think Wood has been Malonied. He's just working back. I could be wrong, but it seems to me Arroyo would not sit down quietly.

Start piggy backing Chapman in the rotation. He's next year's closer. I'm really surprised that folks try and keep talk about him as a starter. It ain't happening.

Decide on Votto.He's an old 27? Organizational continuity means something. Don't deal him.

Call up Mesoraco.yeah. They need an injury at catcher.

Who is Rolen's Caddy?Frazier got the callup and Francisco is in AAA. Since the callup Frazier's versatility has proven useful. While Francisco and Yonder try and play other positions, Frazier plays other positions.

The reds (in the person of Dusty) have not given up on this year, but when they do it will be interesting to see what they do with Ramon.

Could someone correct my lack of knowledge, I was under the impression that for some reason owners were not assured that they would be getting draft picks from free agents that left this year because of the status of the collective bargaining agreement. Am I making that up?

_Sir_Charles_
08-04-2011, 11:24 AM
I know I seem part of the "politically correct" crowd and say a season is worth following no matter what. I don't mean or intend to squash frustration or analysis or any discussion. My problem is, I really do feel that way.

Sure I want them to win and make the playoffs and gloriously sweep through the playoffs and see a world championship celebration at Fountain Square. I whoop when Willis hits a HR to apparently win his own game and see his very human face glow with satisfaction and feel so great for him knowing what he's been through. And I mutter and swear watching Masset throw 4 straight balls to a leadoff hitter. And fume and curse as I watch games click by and this talented but flawed team flounder and not find its stride.

But I feel that's all the lot of a baseball fan. You experience all those things. You get pulled around like a yo-yo. Sometimes in the course of a single pitch-by-pitch AB or an inning or a stretch of a ballgame or a week or a month or a season. Or, a body of experience consisting of years and years worth of seasons with all those micro ABs and games and series and months of baseball.

I think it used to get to me really bad. Games would get lost in a bad way and I'd carry the emotional baggage of it around with me for days. I'd be in a black mood and feel like heaving my TV out the window from a 10 story building. Conversely, I'd walk on air when a big win happened. But as I acquired gray hair and wrinkles and this roll of lard around my middle, I also acquired the sense of proportion of "hey dummy, you've seen this before, you know what it is, you know how it fits in, you know it runs in cycles, so be patient and quit your whining you big bozo".

I guess I view it as living a more full life. Its like having children. They are a source of huge joy and great satisfaction, but can also be a source of worry and disappointment. And it all develops over a period of years. But it also forces you to go "all-in" and participate in the festival of life with all of its ups and downs. Baseball is kinda like that. Either you accept the roller coaster ride and hold your arms up in the air over the big humps and hang on for dear life around the high-G turns or you stand by the fence and watch others ride the ride.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

You're not alone in this. I know I tend to be optimistic to the point of delusional...but after all these years, I'd rather watch & listen to baseball just for the joy of it and always keeping my hope alive for a great play, a great game, a great series or a great year.

But yes, seeing us lose a series to these dreadful Astros...very depressing.

Edskin
08-04-2011, 12:17 PM
WOY and Roy... People told me I'd change when I got married. Got a real job. A mortgage. Kids.

Well all of those things have happened since I first signed up on RZ and I feel no different towards te Reds or any of my teams :) In that regard I'm still 12 years old an I kind of like that about myself :)

Unlike you guys, I'm equal parts baseball, basketball, and football. Year round, every year. So yes, when one of my teams starts dragging I do look ahead to the next season. But the fact that I was watching last night and wanted to gouge out my eyeballs when Votto made that play pretty much shows that I'm still "in" for better or worse.

I understand it's all part of a process and that much like life in general paying some dues makes it ultimately sweeter... But with the Reds and Redskins I've paid dues for a combined 35 or so seasons with VERY little return, and yes, it has jaded me some no doubt.

I thought it was fully reasonable that the Reds would not repeat their success from 2010, but I did not think we'd have an utterly miserable year. That threw me for a loop.

Oh, and for Fathers Day, my wife bought me OKC Thunder season tickets which is the best gift I have ever received. I'm sure just about the time the Redskins are toast I will look ahead to my fun filled NBA season and realize.... It's probably not even gonna happen.... :)

Strikes Out Looking
08-04-2011, 12:24 PM
If anyone wants a little solace for this season, go look at the 1971 Reds. All those great players, coming off a World Series loss, finished 79-83. Their roster was filled with young guys. The oldest starting pitcher was 27. The oldest position player was 30. I liken this season to that one.

And this team only need go 25-26 the rest of the way to match them.

I agree with this -- 1971 was Don Gullett's coming out year as a starting pitcher. Bench completely regressed after winning the MVP -- but he bounced back and won the MVP in 1972. There are a number of similarities; hopefully this version of the team will bounce back like the '71 Reds did.

RANDY IN INDY
08-04-2011, 12:29 PM
I agree with this -- 1971 was Don Gullett's coming out year as a starting pitcher. Bench completely regressed after winning the MVP -- but he bounced back and won the MVP in 1972. There are a number of similarities; hopefully this version of the team will bounce back like the '71 Reds did.

And there was that trade..................

Roy Tucker
08-04-2011, 12:41 PM
Everyone evaluates and appreciates the Reds and the game of baseball in their own way. What works for me probaly doesn't work for others. What works for others doesn't work for me. All of those viewpoints are equally valid and nobody is better or worse. Call me a baseball communist.

I actually like it that way because life itself is a big messy thing and the corners aren't all square. People express how they like (or don't like) things and it makes me sit back and say "hmmm, I didn't think of that" or "nah, you're full of poop". All part of an ongoing iterative process.

For me, its more like cumberlandreds in that this is my 48th Reds season. I probably have fewer than that number of Reds seasons left to watch (unless I live to be more than 107). When I start thinking about it in those terms, the games, however much they may be glorious or boring or average or just suck, all of them become a little more precious. I don't want to squander those games.

Dan
08-04-2011, 12:54 PM
And there was that trade..................

Votto and Stubbs to Toronto for Lind, Lawrie, and Thames. (or some semblance thereof)

IslandRed
08-04-2011, 01:17 PM
Adding another "Good post, Roy" to the list.

As I've said before, more than any other sport, baseball is about the journey, not the destination. Not that I don't have a destination in mind (World Series), but being a baseball fan is an everyday thing, not a once-a-week thing. If it's not fun it's just not worth it. I have enough stress in my life. :cool:

The day I no longer enjoy the journey -- granting that some are more pleasant as others -- is the day I won't count myself as a baseball fan any more. Hopefully that day never comes.

smith288
08-04-2011, 02:24 PM
The best feeling I had this year was when Ramon ended game #1. It's been horrible ever since.

RichRed
08-04-2011, 02:36 PM
I think Ed's a Redskins fan. Not that it's much better. Sort of like being the Dodgers versus the Pirates. Depressing for a whole different host of problems.

I share Ed's affliction and your Dodgers vs. Pirates analogy is a good one. Still, there have been glorious peaks with both the Reds and Redskins that make the valleys worthwhile. It's just that it's hard to remember that sometimes when you're in one of the valleys.

LoganBuck
08-04-2011, 02:37 PM
I can take losing, I just can't tolerate it when I know they are capable of more. We just survived a decade of crap as Reds fans, and none of those seasons left me so jaded as this one. The bad thing is I can't point to any players outside of Johnny Cueto, Francisco Cordero, and Bill Bray and say "I am pleased with your overall play."

Dan
08-04-2011, 02:40 PM
I share Ed's affliction and your Dodgers vs. Pirates analogy is a good one. Still, there have been glorious peaks with both the Reds and Redskins that make the valleys worthwhile. It's just that it's hard to remember that sometimes when you're in one of the valleys.

He made a mistake...there are no Redskins fans anymore. Only Redskins victims. :lol:

REDblooded
08-05-2011, 02:20 PM
I still have a bet that I made with the VP of the company that I work for to look forward to...

Best overall records. Reds vs. Cubs

Loser has to buy 4 tickets to a Cubs vs. Reds game next season... At the winning teams stadium. Loser also has to wear the winning teams gear to the game and pay for dinner...

Pretty much Russian Roulette with 3 bullets, because I'll kill myself before I buy a Cubs shirt.