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redsof72
08-04-2011, 12:20 PM
Another story written by the Dragons beat writer that some may find interesting. Torreyes is 5'7" for those who keep reading different dimensions all over the map.

DAYTON — On a given night, at least two or three scouts from other organizations visit Fifth Third Field to study one team or both.

They are free with their opinions, but need to remain anonymous for obvious reasons.

Here’s a sampling of recent observations about Dragons players:

• Catcher Tucker Barnhart (.270, 2 home runs, 32 RBIs, throwing out 46 percent of runners trying to steal): “I can see him in the big leagues. He’s showing his durability, which would have been a question at his size (5 feet 8).”

• Shortstop Billy Hamilton (.255, 75 stolen bases): “He’s got the arm and the speed for center field. ... He’s a big-leaguer if he can ‘steal first base’ enough to hit .260, because that speed plays. ... Loves the game.”

• Second baseman Ronald Torreyes (.390, 2 homers, 22 RBIs): “The Reds list him at 5-10 (laughter). ... His size (about 5-6) shouldn’t be an issue except on line drives over his head that he can’t reach.”

• Third baseman David Vidal (.296, 15 homers, 65 RBIs): “Lot of mustard on that hot dog. He can hit, but I’d like to see him lose some of that.”

• First baseman Don ald Lutz (.270, 16 homers, 45 RBIs): “Profiles better than (teammate Dominic) D’Anna (who leads team in RBIs). ... Really starting to show his power. ... He runs better than you’d think for his size (6-2, 230-pounds).”

• Outfielder Yorman Rodriguez (.264, 7 homers, 40 RBIs, 20 stolen bases): “He’s not getting enough out of his tools.”

Torreyes, Renken honored: Torreyes’ hot July was not lost on Dragons fans, who voted him player of the month, along with pitcher Daniel Renken, who is now at high-A Bakersfield (Calif.)

Torreyes batted .386 with two home runs and 17 RBIs for the month. He finished tied for first in the Midwest League in hits, second in average and tied for second in runs. Renken was 3-0 with a 0.93 earned-run average in five starts.

Gone for good: There are times when minor leaguers drop down a level to help a team in the playoffs, but that’s not going to happen with Renken, who won his first start for Bakersfield on Tuesday.

“He ain’t coming back,” said Dragons manager Delino DeShields. “He’s a distant memory.”

No curveballs: Team president Bob Murphy was a guest Wednesday on ESPN’s “Outside the Lines” along with part owner Earvin “Magic” Johnson. They discussed the Dragons’ record sellout streak.

Murphy said fill-in host Steve Bunin’s questioning was fair and the experience positive.

mace
08-04-2011, 02:40 PM
Thanks for sharing, 72. Didn't realize that Vidal was a hotdog type. Interesting. So is the remark about Lutz and D'Anna. I'd been wondering about Lutz, because his power seems pretty legit.

I guess the implication on Hamilton was that he's really not a shortstop. That would seem like a premature judgment. On the other hand, I can understand the comment about center field.

I'd also be interested to hear a scouting take on Bowe.

redsof72
08-04-2011, 03:51 PM
There are plenty of scouts that still like Hamilton at short but there are some that like him better at second and some in center. He has improved dramatically at short over the course of the season and is playing pretty well at shortstop.

Lutz has really shown some things. He is a darkhorse prospect in this organization right now.

Bowe: One of the fastest players in the league. Arm is similar to Sappelt (meaning it is well below average). Has played good defense this season and continues to improve. Slap hitter. Most would say he is an organizational guy but he keeps proving to be better than many expected. Has been a part-time player throughout his minor league career...trying to earn more playing time in light of the money that has been invested in some others at his position.

Again, I would always caution the idea of assuming that because any one source sees it a certain way, that it is universally accepted to be fact. There are no unanimous opinions on Reds prospects and their order of ranking varies wildly from scout to scout.

What would fans have thought in 2006 if some scout had said that Chris Heisey was a better prospect than B.J. Szymanski?

medford
08-04-2011, 03:56 PM
redsof72, what's the take on Delino Deshields? I like what I see out of him, and have the impression that he's being groomed as a potential manager of the future when Dusty's contract is up. I suppose all minor league managers are being groomed in such regard, but it feels different w/ Delino for some reason to me.

redsof72
08-04-2011, 04:22 PM
I really like Delino. He is a workaholic, really serious about the job. Well-respected by most everyone. Old-school but fair and treats the players like you would want to be treated.

Not sure about the grooming for the future. The current group of WJ, Bavasi, etc. is invested in this team and this coaching staff. If things go bad and people start getting axed, usually it is not good for the foot soldiers below. New people come in and have their own people. I don't think anyone is thinking about what happens "A.D." (after Dusty).

JayBruceFan
08-05-2011, 01:04 AM
I have seen Hamilton shagging a lot of fly balls during BP recently. And from what I have seen, he looks pretty good out there

lollipopcurve
08-05-2011, 07:23 AM
Lutz has really shown some things. He is a darkhorse prospect in this organization right now.

Interesting. 72, what is Lutz's power like? Big power? All fields?

As always, thanks for your insights.

dougdirt
08-05-2011, 09:40 AM
Interesting. 72, what is Lutz's power like? Big power? All fields?

As always, thanks for your insights.

He is a strong, strong man. Plenty of power. When he gets into a ball, he can absolutely CRUSH it. Plenty of bat speed. Still is a fairly aggressive swinger though. But the guy has legit power.

lollipopcurve
08-05-2011, 10:02 AM
He is a strong, strong man. Plenty of power. When he gets into a ball, he can absolutely CRUSH it. Plenty of bat speed. Still is a fairly aggressive swinger though. But the guy has legit power.

This is good. Doug, does the power extend to all fields, or is he a pull-heavy guy?

dougdirt
08-05-2011, 10:21 AM
This is good. Doug, does the power extend to all fields, or is he a pull-heavy guy?

I haven't seen enough of his games to say one way or the other, but given his bat speed and strength, I imagine he could hit the other way with power. I just don't know if he does. I have probably only seen him play about 10 times this year. After the season is over I will sit down and make spray charts for all of the guys in the minors and will have a much better feel for who goes which way with the ball.

lollipopcurve
08-05-2011, 10:59 AM
I haven't seen enough of his games to say one way or the other, but given his bat speed and strength, I imagine he could hit the other way with power. I just don't know if he does. I have probably only seen him play about 10 times this year. After the season is over I will sit down and make spray charts for all of the guys in the minors and will have a much better feel for who goes which way with the ball.

Thanks Doug. I'd bump his stock if he was hitting them to center and/or left as well as to right. That kind of all-fields power is a main reason I still like Francisco.

Redeye fly
08-05-2011, 08:27 PM
I was at the game Wednesday night against the Whitecaps. First and so far the only game I've been to this year, so I'm by no means an expert. But I would agree that Torreyes is nowhere all that close to 5'10". I'm actually about 5'10" or so myself, and obviously we weren't standing side by side or back to back since I was in the stands between home and third base. But I saw him walk over during break in play to talk to DeShields and another player and my first thought was "Wow, he looks like a little kid." I think he's probably smaller than Rey Olmedo was but I don't know. Of course, I didn't realize until recently he was so young either. He might put on a bit more muscle, but he's definitely a little guy.

Didn't see any hot dog in Vidal, but then again I only saw him the one game. He had a couple of hits and made two real nice plays back to back in the field. The catcher hit a chopper right along the line that he kind of had to back hand and throw across the diamond while his momentum wanted to take him the other way. It probably helped that it was a catcher running, because the throw wasn't a rocket by any means. But he made the play. Then the next guy came in, put down a bunt in that area that Vidal came in and barehanded and fired to first in one nice clean motion.

I was impressed by the overall speed of some of the guys. It looks like there's some real good athletes on that team. We'll see if it translates to real good ball players. But other than Hamilton, who is obvious, Bowe and Sierra seemed to have real good speed too. One of them, don't remember which, but I want to see Bowe, hit a grounder kind of along the line that would have been a single for a lot of guys that he easily made a double out of. Sierra I believe easily swiped a base in the game.

Since it's a pitching dominated game, there's a couple of guys that I had an interest in. Don't know much about Mitch Clarke, but he appears to be a typical finesse lefthander. His fastball seemed to sit around 88 mph on the scoreboard gun. The closer down there has really good numbers and I don't know how he'll project to the majors, if he ever makes it. But he throws decent high heat around 93-94 mph that those low A guys had problems catching up with.

Tuff Nut
08-05-2011, 09:05 PM
Redeye, IIRC, the closer for Dayton is Drew Hayes. Word is he doesn't project as a MLB closer, but I hope he progresses as a pitcher. On a side note, he was an All-State QB in high school, in McKenzie, TN. Don't know if he just had a BaseBall scholly, or a FB one, at Vandy.

redsof72
08-06-2011, 04:10 PM
Torreyes is 5'7". For those who have not seen Torreyes on TV or in person and are curious to see his actual physical size, go to this highlight of the Donald Lutz grand slam from two nights ago and at the end, you see Torreyes standing next to Hamilton, Vidal, and Lutz and you see how he compares in size. It is pretty easy to see.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/multimedia/vpp.jsp?sid=t459

traderumor
08-07-2011, 07:25 PM
Torreyes is 5'7". For those who have not seen Torreyes on TV or in person and are curious to see his actual physical size, go to this highlight of the Donald Lutz grand slam from two nights ago and at the end, you see Torreyes standing next to Hamilton, Vidal, and Lutz and you see how he compares in size. It is pretty easy to see.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/multimedia/vpp.jsp?sid=t459:lol: Torreyes looks like a little leaguer getting to play in the minors for a night, the uniform not helping a bit.

medford
08-08-2011, 09:22 AM
Hamilton's speed really hit me the other night while driving around and catching an inning or two b/w errands. Sounds kind of weird, that his speed hit me while listening to game on the radio, but bare with me. Billy hit a ball to RF, the play by play guy mentioned that he laced a ball into the corner, Hamilton will easily get a double out of this, then proceeded to mention that he was headed for 3rd and potentially going for an inside the park HR. Hamilton pulled up for the triple, rather than race towards home, but based upon the natural pace that you hear a double or potential triple being called over the radio, it sounded like Billy's a good 45 ahead on the base paths than your typicaly runner on a ball into the corner. I know this translates poorly over the internet, even worse than over the radio, but it just struck me how fast the kid is that you I could even get a sense of his speed based up on the description of his triple vs your standard triple.

RedsManRick
08-08-2011, 06:18 PM
After watching Jose Altuve hit for a few games, I feel a lot better about the prospects of a short dude. Of course, Dustin Pedroia isn't all that bigger and they don't call him "Laser show" for nothing.

Cooper
08-11-2011, 10:22 AM
Getting on base is so important in baseball, yet size dominates when discussing physical tools. Wouldn't small size translate to a tool also (if such small size equates to lots of walks?)?

Redeye fly
08-12-2011, 12:45 PM
Surely Eddie Gaedel was one of the greatest hitters of all time.

traderumor
08-12-2011, 02:01 PM
Hamilton's speed really hit me the other night while driving around and catching an inning or two b/w errands. Sounds kind of weird, that his speed hit me while listening to game on the radio, but bare with me. Billy hit a ball to RF, the play by play guy mentioned that he laced a ball into the corner, Hamilton will easily get a double out of this, then proceeded to mention that he was headed for 3rd and potentially going for an inside the park HR. Hamilton pulled up for the triple, rather than race towards home, but based upon the natural pace that you hear a double or potential triple being called over the radio, it sounded like Billy's a good 45 ahead on the base paths than your typicaly runner on a ball into the corner. I know this translates poorly over the internet, even worse than over the radio, but it just struck me how fast the kid is that you I could even get a sense of his speed based up on the description of his triple vs your standard triple.There's a highlight on the Dragons website where he got an inside-the-park homer on a fly ball to LF. It was a little wet and the OFers were just a little slow fielding it, but your talking normally a double, the ball didn't even make it to the wall. He was rounding third as these guys picked up the ball. The timing just doesn't make sense at all, you'd think it was edited, like what you're hearing on the radio.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/multimedia/vpp.jsp?content_id=14238973&sid=t459

RedsManRick
08-12-2011, 02:16 PM
There's a highlight on the Dragons website where he got an inside-the-park homer on a fly ball to LF. It was a little wet and the OFers were just a little slow fielding it, but your talking normally a double, the ball didn't even make it to the wall. He was rounding third as these guys picked up the ball. The timing just doesn't make sense at all, you'd think it was edited, like what you're hearing on the radio.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/multimedia/vpp.jsp?content_id=14238973&sid=t459

It's like they cut out a few seconds of video between each base.... By my count, it took him 14 seconds to score.

Here are the fastest inside the park homers in 2010:
1. Angel Pagan - May 19, 14.48 secs
2. Cameron Maybin - May 31, 14.75
3. Tony Gwynn, Jr. - June 13, 15.34
4. David DeJesus - Apr. 23, 15.71
5. Stephen Drew - Apr. 5, 15.84
6. Adam Jones - May 22, 16.04
7. Gerardo Parra - June 9, 16.06
8. Aubrey Huff - Apr. 14, 16.45

Suffice it to say he's really, really fast.

traderumor
08-12-2011, 02:49 PM
Getting on base is so important in baseball, yet size dominates when discussing physical tools. Wouldn't small size translate to a tool also (if such small size equates to lots of walks?)?So, you're saying size shouldn't matter? :evil:

Cooper
08-13-2011, 11:22 PM
I hope not:)

Vottomatic
08-14-2011, 06:35 PM
I don't follow the minors as much as others.

Is Jefry Sierra related to Ruben Sierra?

RedLegsToday
08-15-2011, 12:36 PM
It's like they cut out a few seconds of video between each base.... By my count, it took him 14 seconds to score.



It looks like he starts swinging just as the timer on the video changes to 0.09 and he is sliding right when it changes to 0.23. He may have been under 14 seconds.

_Sir_Charles_
08-15-2011, 05:46 PM
It looks like he starts swinging just as the timer on the video changes to 0.09 and he is sliding right when it changes to 0.23. He may have been under 14 seconds.

It just looked odd that he was already halfway to third when the OF's picked up the ball. I'd normally expect to see the runner nearing 2nd at that time.

wlf WV
08-15-2011, 08:36 PM
It looks like he starts swinging just as the timer on the video changes to 0.09 and he is sliding right when it changes to 0.23. He may have been under 14 seconds.I thought the same.It didn't look like he got a great jump out of the batters box either.