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View Full Version : Why is Fred Lewis playing?



Caveat Emperor
08-08-2011, 02:57 PM
Fred Lewis seems like a nice guy. He came here on a cheap deal ($900k) and seemed like a decent bench bat for a team that would need bench bats in September as it challenged for a playoff spot.

Well, this team isn't challenging for a playoff spot.

What this team does have is 3 young players (Alonso, Frazier and Sappelt) who need to be evaluated (Alonso defensively, Sappelt offensively) for 2012. They all play left field.

So, I ask -- why is Fred Lewis on this team and playing? He isn't going to be here in 2012. If he is back here, he certainly won't be coming back as a starter. Every PA he takes as a starter is one less PA the Reds have to look at their younger guys who will be around next season.

RichRed
08-08-2011, 03:14 PM
You have to play a certain number of games, otherwise you don't get your letterman's jacket.

Always Red
08-08-2011, 03:20 PM
You have to play a certain number of games, otherwise you don't get your letterman's jacket.

That really is as good an answer as any. :D

Lewis has actually been playing pretty well lately.

I'd say the professional thing for Dusty to do is to go with a guy when he's hot. So while I understand CE's point, and agree with it, I also know that Dusty is still trying to win every single game he can.

His job is a bit at stake (though i don't think he will be fired in the offseason- the roster makeup is not Dusty's fault) in that the final record will be a reflection on Dusty; but it's not spring training either, and Dusty is not holding tryouts.

westofyou
08-08-2011, 03:26 PM
Frazier plays LF? 15 games in the ML is not exactly a resume.

I'm fairly certain Alonzo doesn't play LF.

Ron Madden
08-08-2011, 03:27 PM
Lewis is in the lineup tonight leading off and playing LF.

REDREAD
08-08-2011, 03:31 PM
My guess is that Lewis is a candidate to come back next year, as he should be.

As of today, we have Lewis, Heisey and 3 kids in the mix to cover LF and the two reserve OF slots next year. Not an enomorous amount of depth.

IIRC, Lewis is not free agent eligible. The Reds can offer him arb or non tender him. So, he needs to be evaluated along with the kids.

It also buys the team goodwill when they play guys that come over on cheap contracts like this. If a Redzoner GM ran this team, we'd never be able to talk veterans like Lewis to come on this team, because the Redzoner GM would DFA them during the first week of the season :laugh:

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-08-2011, 03:44 PM
I was thinking of heading down tonight to watch Sappelt. Dusty made the decision for me: I'll pass.

TRF
08-08-2011, 03:47 PM
My guess is that Lewis is a candidate to come back next year, as he should be.

As of today, we have Lewis, Heisey and 3 kids in the mix to cover LF and the two reserve OF slots next year. Not an enomorous amount of depth.

IIRC, Lewis is not free agent eligible. The Reds can offer him arb or non tender him. So, he needs to be evaluated along with the kids.

It also buys the team goodwill when they play guys that come over on cheap contracts like this. If a Redzoner GM ran this team, we'd never be able to talk veterans like Lewis to come on this team, because the Redzoner GM would DFA them during the first week of the season :laugh:

Fred Lewis, with his pedestrian defense, and his .699 OPS SHOULD be a candidate to come back? The Fred Lewis that has never been considered a good clubhouse guy? The guy that has gotten worse just about every year he's been a pro? that guy? He SHOULD be a candidate to return?

really? What EXACTLY does he offer?


Lewis has actually been playing pretty well lately.
What do you mean by lately? Last 7 days he's 0-9, last 10 games he's 4-20. If that constitutes better, what was he doing prior to that? Prio to the ASB .719 OPS since, .621 OPS.

Off the bench, he's been ridiculous....391 .462 .522 .984

In 23 AB's

But, as the LF....221 .310 .310 .620 113 AB's

I'm pretty sure average defense + putrid offense means he SHOULDN'T be guaranteed anything. But that's just my opinion

BRM
08-08-2011, 03:53 PM
Frazier plays LF? 15 games in the ML is not exactly a resume.


I thought Frazier played quite a bit of LF in the minors?

klw
08-08-2011, 03:58 PM
From Fay


Lewis is 7-for-9 off Colorado starter RHP Jason Hammel.

Cedric
08-08-2011, 04:00 PM
I really hope this year burned out Dusty bad and he won't be back.

traderumor
08-08-2011, 04:01 PM
Prospects = new toys on Christmas Day to fans

Consider that there was a day when Fred Lewis was one of those new toys.

Cedric
08-08-2011, 04:02 PM
Prospects = new toys on Christmas Day to fans

Consider that there was a day when Fred Lewis was one of those new toys.

Fred Lewis is the green sweatpants my parents got me at age 10. I went berserk.

TRF
08-08-2011, 04:03 PM
I'm not say stand pat with the kids.

I'm saying there are better options in house and in the world outside than Fred Lewis.

TOBTTReds
08-08-2011, 04:21 PM
I thought Frazier played quite a bit of LF in the minors?

100 games the last two seasons

I(heart)Freel
08-08-2011, 04:38 PM
If we accept that Fred Lewis is being evaluated for the 2012 team, then why would the team artificially inflate his arbitration value with ANY starts over the next 7 weeks?

Tom Servo
08-08-2011, 04:40 PM
Dusty's trying to win ballgames, dude. That's also why he's sending Masset and Ondrusek out there every day. :bang:

dfs
08-08-2011, 05:24 PM
Dusty's trying to win ballgames, dude. That's also why he's sending Masset and Ondrusek out there every day. :bang:

The first step to solving a problem is admitting that you have one.

REDREAD
08-08-2011, 05:26 PM
Fred Lewis, with his pedestrian defense, and his .699 OPS SHOULD be a candidate to come back? The Fred Lewis that has never been considered a good clubhouse guy? The guy that has gotten worse just about every year he's been a pro? that guy? He SHOULD be a candidate to return?

really? What EXACTLY does he offer?


I'm not saying he should be guaranteed anything.
We have 5 bodies at this point for 3 slots next year.
Heisey is hurt, so really Dusty has 4 candidates to play on a given night.
Alonso's defense might take him out of the running.
Frasier is playing a bit of 3b (although I don't know if that is the case tonight)

If Dusty thinks that starting Lewis tonight gives the team a better chance to win, or if the Reds want to continue to evaluate Lewis, why not play him.

IMO, Lewis is just as a legit candidate to come back as the youngsters.
That doesn't mean he's the front runner, but it's something to be considered, esp if they are going to dangle Alonso in trades.
Also, they may not want to have someone like Sappelt on the bench next year.

It's not as cut and dry as giving Sappelt/Frazier all the at bats in LF for the rest of the year.

Strikes Out Looking
08-08-2011, 05:34 PM
[QUOTE=REDREAD;2463276]
Alonso's defense might take him out of the running.
QUOTE]

I think his recent performance has checked this one off the list.

TRF
08-08-2011, 05:39 PM
My guess is that Lewis is a candidate to come back next year, as he should be.

How is that not guaranteeing him a roster spot? He brings no value past pinch hitting this year, and that is such a small sample size that it screams fluke.

He's not a very good defender.

He's not a good hitter.

He doesn't have that Gomes-like reputation for being a good clubhouse guy/leader.

Everything about him says Edwin Encarnacion, except EE can actually hit a bit. Lewis, not so much.

And it really is pretty cut and dried. Frazier should get every AB at 3B possible, Sappelt/Alonso every AB at LF possible. IF a deal is made that involves Alonso, Heisy or even Stubbs, then ok, deal from a strength.

Griffey012
08-08-2011, 06:18 PM
This is his second start of August. Dusty isn't going to start Sappely or Alonso everyday, we know how he handles youngsters by putting them into positions to succeed and not force the issue instantly.

Lewis has earned some PT. He hasn't been great but has been very valuable as a pinch hitter. A career .347 OBP off the bench with decent speed is not a bad thing at all as a 5th outfielder.

Sure he is 7-9 off of Hammel and it gets dismissed because of the small sample size, but you can't just ignore it either, some hitters hit some pitchers well.

Slyder
08-08-2011, 08:59 PM
My guess is that Lewis is a candidate to come back next year, as he should be.

As of today, we have Lewis, Heisey and 3 kids in the mix to cover LF and the two reserve OF slots next year. Not an enomorous amount of depth.

IIRC, Lewis is not free agent eligible. The Reds can offer him arb or non tender him. So, he needs to be evaluated along with the kids.

It also buys the team goodwill when they play guys that come over on cheap contracts like this. If a Redzoner GM ran this team, we'd never be able to talk veterans like Lewis to come on this team, because the Redzoner GM would DFA them during the first week of the season :laugh:

Could they be looking to try and showcase Lewis to ANYONE for ANYTHING to try and give him a chance to play on a contender and this is one way to try and put him in a position to showcase (7 for 9 or whatever vs the starter)?

hebroncougar
08-08-2011, 09:10 PM
This is his second start of August. Dusty isn't going to start Sappely or Alonso everyday, we know how he handles youngsters by putting them into positions to succeed and not force the issue instantly.

Lewis has earned some PT. He hasn't been great but has been very valuable as a pinch hitter. A career .347 OBP off the bench with decent speed is not a bad thing at all as a 5th outfielder.

Sure he is 7-9 off of Hammel and it gets dismissed because of the small sample size, but you can't just ignore it either, some hitters hit some pitchers well.

I'm sorry, but this is crap. Not because of your post or anything, but if he's not going to play the young guys to be evaluated for 2012, he's putting the organization behind the eight ball, and he needs to go. There is absolutely zero reason to not give Alonso and Sappelt all the starts in LF unless they prove their are god awful.

Griffey012
08-08-2011, 09:20 PM
I'm sorry, but this is crap. Not because of your post or anything, but if he's not going to play the young guys to be evaluated for 2012, he's putting the organization behind the eight ball, and he needs to go. There is absolutely zero reason to not give Alonso and Sappelt all the starts in LF unless they prove their are god awful.

Sappelt will be on the Cozart plan. Likely will start 3/5 games at the beginning. As much as I want Yonder in LF more, his outfield D has been pretty horrendous. It is hard to blame Dusty as he is stuck in a bit of a rut trying to win vs. trying to play youngsters.

This is where upper management needs to intervene and say "look, we know you are trying to do what is best to win ballgames, but we are out of this thing and need to know what we have in LF for next year. You are not going to be held accountable for Alonso's lack of fielding."

Right now Dusty is probably trying to win games for job security. Because I am not so sure Dusty's job will be safe come the off-season.

alloverjr
08-08-2011, 09:24 PM
I'm sorry, but this is crap. Not because of your post or anything, but if he's not going to play the young guys to be evaluated for 2012, he's putting the organization behind the eight ball, and he needs to go. There is absolutely zero reason to not give Alonso and Sappelt all the starts in LF unless they prove their are god awful.

If Dusty thinks Lewis gives his team the best chance to win, then he should play Lewis, whether I agree with him or not. Dusty will be evaluated in part on how many games he wins. If seeing the young guys play is the organizational priority, it's up to Walt to communicate that to Dusty and assure him that he will not be evaluated on wins and losses.

dougdirt
08-08-2011, 09:30 PM
If Dusty thinks Lewis gives his team the best chance to win, then he should play Lewis, whether I agree with him or not. Dusty will be evaluated in part on how many games he wins. If seeing the young guys play is the organizational priority, it's up to Walt to communicate that to Dusty and assure him that he will not be evaluated on wins and losses.

If Dusty thinks Lewis gives his team a better chance to win, then he should be fired.

edabbs44
08-08-2011, 09:36 PM
Could they be looking to try and showcase Lewis to ANYONE for ANYTHING to try and give him a chance to play on a contender and this is one way to try and put him in a position to showcase (7 for 9 or whatever vs the starter)?

Never. It's because Dusty is an idiot. There is no way that maybe, just maybe, a playoff team needs a LH bat off the bench and maybe reached out to the Reds about him.

Cedric
08-08-2011, 10:18 PM
Never. It's because Dusty is an idiot. There is no way that maybe, just maybe, a playoff team needs a LH bat off the bench and maybe reached out to the Reds about him.

I think it's very hard to argue that Dusty Baker isn't an idiot with his archaic views on managing a baseball team.

I doubt he thinks anything of "showcasing" Fred Lewis.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-08-2011, 10:30 PM
Fred offers little to this team and organization. He's replacement level and definitely not worth the nearly 500K more than a youngster makes. Frankly, I'm tired of this team bringing in the Fred Lewis types every year.

If he is seriously considered a legit candidate for a spot in 2012, this team has gone further downhill than I thought.

edabbs44
08-08-2011, 10:35 PM
I think it's very hard to argue that Dusty Baker isn't an idiot with his archaic views on managing a baseball team.

I doubt he thinks anything of "showcasing" Fred Lewis.

Maybe WJ told him to play him due to calls he is getting.

hebroncougar
08-08-2011, 10:42 PM
If Dusty thinks Lewis gives his team a better chance to win, then he should be fired.

Man. We think a lot alike.

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-09-2011, 12:22 PM
Dusty may very well be managing himself out of a job in 2012, and I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Perhaps finishing below .500 with the talent that this team has would be the final straw.

bucksfan2
08-09-2011, 12:31 PM
Dusty may very well be managing himself out of a job in 2012, and I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Perhaps finishing below .500 with the talent that this team has would be the final straw.

It looks as if Fred Lewis is getting a start every week or so. It pretty much fits the bill for your backup outfielders and utility players. They need to start every once in a while in order to stay fresh. If your going to give Fred a spot start here and there it makes sense to do it against a pitcher he has has success against in the past. I don't see an issue with that one bit. Heck last night he went 1-2 BB. I don't have an issue what so ever in a Lewis type getting a start when they have done well against the opposing starting pitcher.

Sappelt will get his fair share of starts in the outfield. Lets not anoint him the next big thing and let him develop at the MLB level. Dusty got him his first big league start the other day and he will get more and more starts as the season goes along.

WMR
08-09-2011, 12:55 PM
Is there even any heat on Dusty? Certainly doesn't feel that way.

RichRed
08-09-2011, 01:02 PM
Is there even any heat on Dusty? Certainly doesn't feel that way.

My gut feeling, and that's all it is, is that Dusty's gone this offseason.

westofyou
08-09-2011, 01:08 PM
Is there even any heat on Dusty? Certainly doesn't feel that way.

None, zip, zilch.

The pitching has been horrendous the FO gave him Janish at SS and a bunch of fodder in LF, then was slow on the draw to correct it, meanwhile attrition from the starters leaked into the bullpen and caused a cascade affect that we're seeing right now.

Plus he makes 3 million bucks and despite this seasons woes he still did win last year, and that's got more weight with the FO then with a fickle fan base that falls in love with every new OF like a school boy falls for every girl in 8th grade.

traderumor
08-09-2011, 01:09 PM
I think Dusty being gone is so much wishful thinking. The pitching coach might be the first victim. Don't agree with either, but having followed the game, that seems to be the pattern in the league.

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-09-2011, 01:12 PM
I think Dusty being gone is so much wishful thinking. The pitching coach might be the first victim. Don't agree with either, but having followed the game, that seems to be the pattern in the league.

I'd rather see Brook Jacoby hit the road before Price.

Caveat Emperor
08-09-2011, 01:18 PM
My gut feeling, and that's all it is, is that Dusty's gone this offseason.

They aren't going to launch him with that much money left on his contract.

RichRed
08-09-2011, 01:23 PM
They aren't going to launch him with that much money left on his contract.

I never said my gut had any common sense.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-09-2011, 02:00 PM
They aren't going to launch him with that much money left on his contract.

Yep.

And the fact that a small/mid-market organization has paid this guy nearly $14 million (with $3 million left to go) is hilarious and sad at the same time.

All that, and hes under .500 since hes been here. What a waste of precious money.

But, but, but, he won here last year. So I guess that buys him years of mediocrity in this town (see: Marvin Lewis). Im sure Mackanin (or anyone with a pulse) would have won with last years talent (and luck) and would have done so at a fraction of the cost.

Just think, that extra $10 million theyve paid Dusty, as opposed to someone else, could have actually helped to fill a hole somewhere in this team.

REDREAD
08-09-2011, 02:12 PM
Lewis has started 37 games this year. Several of them were interleague games where the DH was used. I think people are way overreacting. Calling for Dusty's head over this is a bit extreme..
Sappelt ended up getting into the game anyhow.

It seems like the Reds are still trying to figure out what to do with Alonso.
We can criticize them (of course), but it looks like they want to work with him on his fielding outside of game time before they throw him out in LF again.

TRF
08-09-2011, 02:57 PM
I'm not calling for Dusty's head. I think he's the manager next year, and I'd take him for 3 past that. He's got an incredible knack for managing egos that is almost Sparky-lite. He's a logo on the front of the shirt guy.

I do think that if Walt wanted Sappelt or Frazier or Alonso in LF everyday, then that is an organizational decision that Dusty would have to abide. My feeling is simple: Fred Lewis is wasting a roster space. In anything resembling a large sample, he's awful. As a pinch hitter, he's been fantastic.

What i don't want to see is Lewis in LF and Cairo at 3B as starters.

LvJ
08-09-2011, 04:32 PM
I want this guy in my OF:

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/208958/ilFLbg.gif

savafan
08-09-2011, 07:32 PM
There's only one tool necessary for Dusty to bat you leadoff. You've just got to be fast.

signalhome
08-09-2011, 08:12 PM
There's only one tool necessary for Dusty to bat you leadoff. You've just got to be fast.

And play CF. You forgot that one.

CF is Sappelt's natural position, so it's okay to play him in LF and still have him lead off.