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Joseph
08-08-2011, 06:50 PM
“My stuff was so good, I wouldn’t want to get guys out,” Verlander said. “I’d want to embarrass them. And occasionally, I’d be able to do that. But that leads to 100 pitches, and you’re out in 5 1/3 innings.”

The above quote came from Justin Verlander obviously, but it could apply to at least 3 guys who have started a game for us this season in Cueto, Bailey, and Volquez. All of them possess phenomenal 'stuff', but so far Cueto is the only one who seemingly has begun to pitch to get outs instead of to strike guys out. Bailey has shown brief flashes of it, and I'm not sure where Volquez's head is at all. Chapman may also fall into this category, but who knows with him working from the bullpen as opposed to the rotation.

It's not to say any of our guys possess Verlanders arm, he's clearly a notch above, but they could indeed be excellent pitchers if they learn its about outs and not strike outs and making guys look silly.

dougdirt
08-08-2011, 07:26 PM
Volquez doesn't have the control to pitch to contact. He doesn't know where the ball is going.

reds44
08-08-2011, 07:29 PM
Volquez doesn't have the control to pitch to contact. He doesn't know where the ball is going.
Uh huuh.

PuffyPig
08-08-2011, 07:34 PM
You can pitch to get guys out as long as you have a superb BABIP.

Though Verlander's K rate is actually up, his BABIP is .232.

I wonder how he will feel when that normalizes?

Johnny Footstool
08-08-2011, 11:30 PM
Wise words from Justin Verlander, who is currently leading the AL in strikeouts. ;)

Ghosts of 1990
08-09-2011, 12:10 AM
Great quote, great find. Makes a lot of sense if you've been paying attention to Verlander's outings this season.

KronoRed
08-09-2011, 12:14 AM
Dan O'Brien approves.

AtomicDumpling
08-09-2011, 12:49 AM
I wouldn't say Verlander pitches to contact, he is leading the league in strikeouts. The key is to throw tough pitches in the strike zone. Verlander has great velocity and good movement, so there is no need to try to trick hitters into swinging at balls. He throws the ball over the plate and dares batters to hit it -- and they can't.

Volquez could do well to emulate Verlander. Of course Volquez's stuff isn't as good as Verlander's, but Volquez does have very good stuff. Either he is afraid to throw strikes because he doesn't trust his stuff, or he doesn't have good enough control over his mechanics to consistently command his pitches into the strike zone. I still think Volquez will eventually learn to harness his stuff and become a consistently solid pitcher. Of course that might happen after the Reds give up on him. He has pitched very well for short stretches in the past. He has all the physical tools but he just hasn't yet learned the craft.

traderumor
08-09-2011, 09:32 AM
I've seen the Reds dare batters to hit their stuff. Problem. They do. Hard. Into the seats.

PuffyPig
08-09-2011, 09:49 AM
The key for good pitching is to induce weak contact.

Of course, the key to inducing weak contact is to have favourable randomness.

Missing bats is still the #1 way pitchers can be successful. And that's what Verlander is doing, along with getting favorable randomness in BABIP.

blumj
08-09-2011, 11:44 AM
The key for good pitching is to induce weak contact.

Of course, the key to inducing weak contact is to have favourable randomness.

Missing bats is still the #1 way pitchers can be successful. And that's what Verlander is doing, along with getting favorable randomness in BABIP.
The key to missing bats is to have Verlander's stuff, it's not trying to miss bats. He's talking about the process, you want pitchers who miss bats, but that doesn't mean that the best way for pitchers to pitch, from their own POV, is to always try to miss bats. The trying may be counterproductive.

IslandRed
08-09-2011, 02:21 PM
The key to missing bats is to have Verlander's stuff, it's not trying to miss bats. He's talking about the process, you want pitchers who miss bats, but that doesn't mean that the best way for pitchers to pitch, from their own POV, is to always try to miss bats. The trying may be counterproductive.

Yep. Same way a hitter might be told "quit trying to hit a home run every time up." Good outcomes are the result of good processes. Get the cart before the horse and the player's performance can suffer.