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View Full Version : Marlins option LF Logan Morrison



Redsfan320
08-14-2011, 11:40 AM
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110813&content_id=23187786&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

.249/.327/.464/.791, 17 HR, 60 RBI, 5 E, 4 Ast., plays a solid LF, and a good PR boost from all his tweeting.

Not great numbers in his sophomore year to be sure, but really, does Jeff Loria and this Marlins organization have a clue?

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RedLegSuperStar
08-14-2011, 11:47 AM
Logan wasn't excited about the move.. he took to Twitter and voiced his opinion ans said the release of Wes Helms and his optioned down were tied together some how.

mth123
08-14-2011, 11:54 AM
If the Marlins are sour, the Reds should be on him. I'd gladly deal Stubbs for him.

Redsfan320
08-14-2011, 11:56 AM
If the Marlins are sour, the Reds should be on him. I'd gladly deal Stubbs for him.

I would too. LoMo to LF, Sapp/Heisey to CF.

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Orenda
08-14-2011, 12:19 PM
tougher pitchers, tougher ballpark, fewer fans. I got to think his numbers would get an additional boost playing in the GABP.

I(heart)Freel
08-14-2011, 01:04 PM
Stubbs? How about Volquez?

_Sir_Charles_
08-14-2011, 01:16 PM
There sure does seem to be a lot of people wanting to trade away Drew Stubbs. I'm just not seeing it. He's got a great glove, speed to burn, some real nice pop in his bat...he's just being miscast as a lead off hitter. No way I want to deal Drew. Just leave Sappelt in left and leading off and Stubbs will be fine.

mth123
08-14-2011, 02:41 PM
There sure does seem to be a lot of people wanting to trade away Drew Stubbs. I'm just not seeing it. He's got a great glove, speed to burn, some real nice pop in his bat...he's just being miscast as a lead off hitter. No way I want to deal Drew. Just leave Sappelt in left and leading off and Stubbs will be fine.

Who hits 4th and 5th and what positions do they play? I don't think this team can win with more than 1 of Stubbs, Heisey and Sappelt in the line-up regularly unless they get a clean-up hitter to play Catcher or 3B. That ain't happening.

mth123
08-14-2011, 02:41 PM
Stubbs? How about Volquez?

Why would the Marlins do that?

HokieRed
08-14-2011, 02:43 PM
Who hits 4th and 5th and what positions do they play? I don't think this team can win with more than 1 of Stubbs, Heisey and Sappelt in the line-up regularly unless they get a clean-up hitter to play Catcher or 3B. That ain't happening.

Agree. This is where we have a clear redundancy, and I think the guy has to play CF. I see Heisey as an ideal 4th OF. Sappelt or Stubbs will probably emerge as the starter. But it makes no sense to keep all three of these.

HokieRed
08-14-2011, 02:44 PM
Agree. This is where we have a clear redundancy, and I think the guy has to play CF. I see Heisey as an ideal 4th OF. Sappelt or Stubbs will probably emerge as the starter. But it makes no sense to keep all three of these.

And Phipps may now have to be considered part of the picture too.

mth123
08-14-2011, 02:47 PM
Agree. This is where we have a clear redundancy, and I think the guy has to play CF. I see Heisey as an ideal 4th OF. Sappelt or Stubbs will probably emerge as the starter. But it makes no sense to keep all three of these.

Sappelt is the best fit at the top of the order, Heisey is the best bench player, Stubbs would bring the most in trade. No brainer IMO.

HokieRed
08-14-2011, 02:50 PM
Sappelt is the best fit at the top of the order, Heisey is the best bench player, Stubbs would bring the most in trade. No brainer IMO.

That's how I'd read it, too, though I'd like to see a bit more of Sappelt before fully endorsing this conclusion.

AtomicDumpling
08-14-2011, 05:19 PM
There sure does seem to be a lot of people wanting to trade away Drew Stubbs. I'm just not seeing it. He's got a great glove, speed to burn, some real nice pop in his bat...he's just being miscast as a lead off hitter. No way I want to deal Drew. Just leave Sappelt in left and leading off and Stubbs will be fine.

I don't think people are wanting to get rid of Stubbs, they just see an opportunity to acquire Logan Morrison. As much as I like Drew Stubbs I would rather have Logan Morrison. You have to give up something good to get something good. Just because you trade a guy doesn't mean you are giving up on him.

Redsfan320
08-14-2011, 06:38 PM
Here's some info on it, regarding a probable off-the-field reason for the demo. for LoMo. (http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/2011/08/14/after-offering-advise-to-logan-morrison-wes-helms-gets-released-by-florida-marlins/)

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Scrap Irony
08-14-2011, 07:11 PM
If Morrison and his agent put up enough of a stink, Morrison will be dealt.

A Stubbs/ Morrison swap, at this point, is a loser statistically for the Reds. (According to BA, Stubbs has 9.8 career WAR in just over twice the PAs. Morrison has 0.5.) Part of that, IMO, is the advantage WAR gives CF, but part of it is that Stubbs has, so far, simply been a very good major league player on both sides of the ball since he was called up.

Morrison is younger (23) and was generally considered a better prospect.

I'd probably do the deal, if only because I think Morrison will blow up a bit as he matures, especially in a small park like the GABP. However, the Reds could rightfully feel that Stubbs is overpaying for Morrison and look to deal, for example, someone like Juan Francisco (a 3B for a team that really needs one) and Travis Wood.

A Wood/ Francisco deal for Morrison would be a really nice deal for both teams, IMO.

Ghosts of 1990
08-14-2011, 07:32 PM
A lot of people here are impressed with Sappelt. He looks like a AAAA talent to me thus far but I know it's early.

Scrap Irony
08-14-2011, 07:38 PM
A lot of people here are impressed with Sappelt. He looks like a AAAA talent to me thus far but I know it's early.

Quick bat, good history in the upper minors with both BA and pop, plus good defense (supposedly) in CF.

He is aggressive early in the count, but you can probably put that down as nerves. Give him the rest of the season before you cast your vote.

I(heart)Freel
08-14-2011, 10:32 PM
Why would the Marlins do that?

Are you looking for rational logic from the team that just demoted their third of fourth best player? Really?

mth123
08-15-2011, 12:36 AM
Are you looking for rational logic from the team that just demoted their third of fourth best player? Really?

Sure. I'd start with as little as possible. Assuming they come to a decision to deal him while not giving him away, I think Stubbs for Morrison is a fair trade that works for both teams. The Reds have a glut of CF and need to open a spot in the OF to allow both a lead-off hitter and a mid-order bat in the line-up. The fact that Morrison could slide to 1B down the road will allow the team to forget about holding onto Alonso in case Votto leaves and include him as a major part of a deal for an arm. The fact that both Stubbs and Morrison make near minimum makes the deal doable for both teams.

PuffyPig
08-15-2011, 07:58 AM
The Marlins would jump at a Stubbs/Morrison swap.

It's not everyday you can get premium CF talent for a 1B/LF type.

Sappelt has 7 singles in 30 AB's, zero walks, and 1 run. He's showm zero as a lead off hitter, swinging early and often at anytihng close to the strike zone. Now, it's a small sample size, but he certainly hasn't shown me enough to trade our CF.

If you must trade Stubbs, it should be in a deal for a TOR or SS, another premium defensive postion. Trading him for an Alonso type player is going backwards.

mattfeet
08-15-2011, 08:37 AM
The Marlins would jump at a Stubbs/Morrison swap.

It's not everyday you can get premium CF talent for a 1B/LF type.

Sappelt has 7 singles in 30 AB's, zero walks, and 1 run. He's showm zero as a lead off hitter, swinging early and often at anytihng close to the strike zone. Now, it's a small sample size, but he certainly hasn't shown me enough to trade our CF.

If you must trade Stubbs, it should be in a deal for a TOR or SS, another premium defensive postion. Trading him for an Alonso type player is going backwards.

Good post. Agreed 110%

cumberlandreds
08-15-2011, 08:56 AM
The Marlins would jump at a Stubbs/Morrison swap.

It's not everyday you can get premium CF talent for a 1B/LF type.

Sappelt has 7 singles in 30 AB's, zero walks, and 1 run. He's showm zero as a lead off hitter, swinging early and often at anytihng close to the strike zone. Now, it's a small sample size, but he certainly hasn't shown me enough to trade our CF.

If you must trade Stubbs, it should be in a deal for a TOR or SS, another premium defensive postion. Trading him for an Alonso type player is going backwards.

I agree with you all the way around on this one. Stubbs is a very good defensive player who can be hard to find as a CF.
Sappelt so far to me looks like a Corey Patterson doppleganger. I hope he proves me wrong but I don't see much from Sappelt to get excited about thus far.

HotCorner
08-15-2011, 08:58 AM
The Marlins would jump at a Stubbs/Morrison swap.

It's not everyday you can get premium CF talent for a 1B/LF type.

Sappelt has 7 singles in 30 AB's, zero walks, and 1 run. He's showm zero as a lead off hitter, swinging early and often at anytihng close to the strike zone. Now, it's a small sample size, but he certainly hasn't shown me enough to trade our CF.

If you must trade Stubbs, it should be in a deal for a TOR or SS, another premium defensive postion. Trading him for an Alonso type player is going backwards.

Bravo!! :thumbup:

RichRed
08-15-2011, 09:30 AM
I agree with you all the way around on this one. Stubbs is a very good defensive player who can be hard to find as a CF.
Sappelt so far to me looks like a Corey Patterson doppleganger. I hope he proves me wrong but I don't see much from Sappelt to get excited about thus far.

I'm getting more of a Norris Hopper vibe but I agree overall.

IslandRed
08-15-2011, 10:12 AM
I'm getting more of a Norris Hopper vibe but I agree overall.

I think he could be better than that, once he calms down and starts taking pitches again.

But I've yet to be convinced those who said Sappelt would be limited to left field in the majors because of his arm are wrong.

Homer Bailey
08-15-2011, 10:40 AM
No chance I deal Stubbs for LoMo. At some point people are going to have to realize that Stubbs is very, very valuable. Only 11 outfielders have a higher cumulative WAR over the past two season than Stubbs.

PuffyPig
08-15-2011, 11:09 AM
No chance I deal Stubbs for LoMo. At some point people are going to have to realize that Stubbs is very, very valuable. Only 11 outfielders have a higher cumulative WAR over the past two season than Stubbs.

But he strikes out too much?

How can this be?

If we put Sappelt and Cozart at the top of the lineup, they will literally clog the bases for Votto and Bruce, an amazing feat considering they have gone to bat 67 times in the majors without registering any single walks.

_Sir_Charles_
08-15-2011, 11:17 AM
Who hits 4th and 5th and what positions do they play? I don't think this team can win with more than 1 of Stubbs, Heisey and Sappelt in the line-up regularly unless they get a clean-up hitter to play Catcher or 3B. That ain't happening.

Well, first off I don't think the batting order matters as much as others may. But that being said, I do think we have a cleanup hitter in the system ready to slot in at catcher. Mesoraco. But even if we don't go that route, we've still got options. Just say screw the lefty-righty stuff and hit Votto & Bruce at 3/4. Personally, if I were to do a lineup, it would probably be something along these lines...

Sappelt LF
Phillips 2b
Votto 1b
Mesoraco C
Bruce RF
Stubbs CF
Frazier 3b
Cozart ss
pitcher

If we decide to not use Devin there, then this...

Sappelt LF
Phillips 2b
Votto 1b
Bruce RF
Stubbs CF
Mesoraco C
Frazier 3b
Cozart ss
pitcher

Simply put, I don't care that much about the lefty/righty order. The only time it really comes into play is in the later innings. By that time you're using pinch hitters for your own pitchers anyway. And with Dusty's penchant for double switching...it's all blown up anyway.

TRF
08-15-2011, 12:35 PM
I have to say I want no part of Morrison for the simple fact that i don't want to see another post calling him "LoMo".

I now loath "ARod" for popularizing this stupid type of nickname.

kaldaniels
08-15-2011, 12:49 PM
But he strikes out too much?

How can this be?

If we put Sappelt and Cozart at the top of the lineup, they will literally clog the bases for Votto and Bruce, an amazing feat considering they have gone to bat 67 times in the majors without registering any single walks.

I did not realize that. It's bordering on Francouerian.

Guacarock
08-15-2011, 01:23 PM
Will Cozart and Sappelt begin to draw walks at the ML level? Yes. Both have shown at Louisville that they can and will walk, perhaps once every 9-10 plate appearances, after they adjust and get over their jitters from being promoted to The Show.

But the question remains: Is that enough patience at the plate for the Reds to insert them in the starting lineup, or to use them as table setters up top of the order?

In the case of Cozart, the Reds ought to play him. He has more power and speed than Janish, and will hit for a higher average. I'm sure Dusty will hit him second (duh, he's a SS), but Cozart probably ought to hit down in the lineup, maybe even eighth.

Sappelt's another story. If he doesn't steal bases or draw walks, his value is diminished as a potential starting outfielder, particularly one being eyed to lead off. And if he doesn't demonstrate any power, then I'm not sure he can hold down LF, either.

We haven't seen enough of Sappelt yet to make a fair conclusion about his long-term value and whether he can reach his potential. He came out blazing like a meteor in spring training, but has looked less impressive so far in August. For now, I'm comfortable with him seeing lots of playing time so we can judge whether he ought to start or serve as an understudy in 2012. Even if we determine he can start, I wouldn't sacrifice Stubbs at all, unless it meant filling a greater position of need, such as acquiring a TOR starting pitcher.

REDREAD
08-15-2011, 05:50 PM
Who hits 4th and 5th and what positions do they play? I don't think this team can win with more than 1 of Stubbs, Heisey and Sappelt in the line-up regularly unless they get a clean-up hitter to play Catcher or 3B. That ain't happening.

Or keep Stubbs and try to find a bat for LF.
It's almost impossible to find a "cleanup bat" in CF.

Guacarock
08-15-2011, 08:11 PM
Who hits 4th and 5th and what positions do they play? I don't think this team can win with more than 1 of Stubbs, Heisey and Sappelt in the line-up regularly unless they get a clean-up hitter to play Catcher or 3B. That ain't happening.

With his 78 RBI so far this season, Jay Bruce is staking a legitimate claim as our next logical cleanup hitter. Sure, Bruce is prone to some streaky ups and downs, but the 78 RBI currently places him 12th among all Major League batters. Ahead of him: Two Red Sox, three Yankees, and individual batters from the Phils, Rangers, White Sox, Brewers, Dodgers, and Rockies. So, in other words, Bruce has more RBI than every batter on the rosters of 21 other teams.

Not too shabby, especially considering that he's still young, a work in progress and is showing steady improvement at the plate (more power, higher average). Even if he's not yet a model of consistency, I'd be comfortable seeing him designated as our cleanup hitter in 2012, or at least regularly holding down the fort batting fifth. We might still have to go outside to solve our leadoff problem (especially if Sappelt doesn't pan out in LF), but cleanup doesn't seem as if it will be as glaring an issue this off-season as it was last year.

nate
08-15-2011, 08:44 PM
I did not realize that. It's bordering on Francouerian.

That's an awesome word!

Raisor
08-15-2011, 08:50 PM
That's an awesome word!

http://www.patrick-george.com/images2/Patrick%20meets%20Francoeurs%27s%20Frank%20outside %20Turner%20Field%20after%20an%20Atlanta%20Braves% 20game.JPG

buckeyenut
08-16-2011, 08:20 AM
I think I would hold on Bruce or Mes as cleanup hitter for now, unless something like David Wright fell into my lap this offseason. On Sappelt in LF, I need him to OBP ~.350 or else I am sticking Alonso out in LF, despite his failings on defense. If Sappelt isn't my leadoff hitter, he isn't adding the value we need from LF.

MikeS21
08-16-2011, 10:07 AM
I gotta say that I don't care if its only been 10-12 games, I'm not all that impressed with Sappelt. Sure, I've seen a defensive gem or two, but I saw those from Gomes, too.

I think you put Alonso in LF and leave him there until Votto makes up his mind what he is going to do.

RedsManRick
08-16-2011, 02:53 PM
I gotta say that I don't care if its only been 10-12 games, I'm not all that impressed with Sappelt. Sure, I've seen a defensive gem or two, but I saw those from Gomes, too.

I think you put Alonso in LF and leave him there until Votto makes up his mind what he is going to do.

Votto doesn't have a choice for another two years. And if the Reds are of the belief that the need a clean-up man, Sappelt should be given more than a 30 PA audition. I agree that he's not been terribly impressive at the plate, but again, 30 PA.

Last year, a certain 1B turned LF (turned 3B?) hit a measly .207/.207/.276 in 29 PA. I like Alonso as much as the next guy, but Sappelt is likely to be more valuable given the Reds current needs if he can hit as expected.

OnBaseMachine
08-16-2011, 04:01 PM
Votto doesn't have a choice for another two years. And if the Reds are of the belief that the need a clean-up man, Sappelt should be given more than a 30 PA audition. I agree that he's not been terribly impressive at the plate, but again, 30 PA.

Last year, a certain 1B turned LF (turned 3B?) hit a measly .207/.207/.276 in 29 PA. I like Alonso as much as the next guy, but Sappelt is likely to be more valuable given the Reds current needs if he can hit as expected.

Agreed. If Sappelt were hitting .400 people would be screaming about the small sample size. It seems like people are writing him off because of a bad 30 plate appearances. I'm impressed with his swing and defense, and he showed a solid ability to draw walks in AAA (8.9 % this year), so I expect that to eventually carry over. It just seems like he's trying to do too much right now.

dougdirt
08-16-2011, 05:24 PM
I agree with you all the way around on this one. Stubbs is a very good defensive player who can be hard to find as a CF.
Sappelt so far to me looks like a Corey Patterson doppleganger. I hope he proves me wrong but I don't see much from Sappelt to get excited about thus far.

Sappelt is comparable to Corey Patterson? Man, I have read it all now. Seriously, if a guy comes up and doesn't perform like an all star immediately he gets a quick label around here doesn't he?

Dave Sappelt had 30 walks and 39 strikeouts in Louisville this year. When did Corey Patterson ever show ANYTHING close to that at any level?

dougdirt
08-16-2011, 05:29 PM
Sappelt's another story. If he doesn't steal bases or draw walks, his value is diminished as a potential starting outfielder, particularly one being eyed to lead off. And if he doesn't demonstrate any power, then I'm not sure he can hold down LF, either.


Why does a leadoff man have to steal bases? Doesn't he have the best hitters directly behind him?

Sappelt is going to hit for some power. Probably 30-35 doubles and 15 HR's. He is not going to walk a ton, but he is going to walk enough considering that he isn't going to strike out much either.

Guacarock
08-16-2011, 09:47 PM
Why does a leadoff man have to steal bases? Doesn't he have the best hitters directly behind him?

Sappelt is going to hit for some power. Probably 30-35 doubles and 15 HR's. He is not going to walk a ton, but he is going to walk enough considering that he isn't going to strike out much either.

First and foremost, a leadoff man has to get on base. But a leadoff man with speed, the ability to steal bases and distract a pitcher brings additional value over and above a high OBP.

Alonso, for instance, has a high OBP but you wouldn't want him setting the table unless you were a Slow Food advocate. Sappelt, by contrast, has more speed so he merits consideration for the job. But if he can't steal and can't get on base (owing to a low walk ratio) he might only be a short-term solution. Time will tell.

edabbs44
08-16-2011, 09:52 PM
Sappelt is comparable to Corey Patterson? Man, I have read it all now. Seriously, if a guy comes up and doesn't perform like an all star immediately he gets a quick label around here doesn't he?

Dave Sappelt had 30 walks and 39 strikeouts in Louisville this year. When did Corey Patterson ever show ANYTHING close to that at any level?

When did Sappelt ever show anything like that at any other point in his career?

PuffyPig
08-16-2011, 09:57 PM
Why does a leadoff man have to steal bases? Doesn't he have the best hitters directly behind him?

Sappelt is going to hit for some power. Probably 30-35 doubles and 15 HR's. He is not going to walk a ton, but he is going to walk enough considering that he isn't going to strike out much either.

His career high in those categories is 24 and 9. Which means something, how much I don't know.

What do you mean by "he will walk enough considering he isn't going to strike out much"?

K's are pretty meaningless vs. other outs. I certainly don't trade less walks for less K's (vs. other outs).

PuffyPig
08-16-2011, 09:59 PM
Agreed. If Sappelt were hitting .400 people would be screaming about the small sample size. It seems like people are writing him off because of a bad 30 plate appearances. I'm impressed with his swing and defense, and he showed a solid ability to draw walks in AAA (8.9 % this year), so I expect that to eventually carry over. It just seems like he's trying to do too much right now.

I don't think anyone is writing him off.

But many aren't ready to dump Stubbs for a LF for a steady dose of Sappelt just yet either.

oneupper
08-16-2011, 10:12 PM
Player 1: .296/.367/.459 .825 OPS SB% 82.7% K 15.8%
Player 2: .309/.362/.459 .821 OPS SB% 63.5% K 14.5%
Player 3: .269/.364/.401 .765 OPS SB% 77.1% K 27.2%

Those are the minor league stats of three REDS of's. All over 1700 PA, so no small sample sizes. Match them to their names and pick who you'd prefer to lead off for the team.

I'll take number 1, but there's not a lot of difference.

Guacarock
08-16-2011, 10:28 PM
Player No. 1: Heisey. Behind Door No. Two: Sappelt. Mystery Man Three: Stubbs.

Heisey does seem to have the slight edge as a potential leadoff man, based on his cumulative minor league stats. Then again, his .307 OBP this season would suggest otherwise.

dougdirt
08-17-2011, 01:25 AM
When did Sappelt ever show anything like that at any other point in his career?

The last two seasons, when Sappelt changed his swing mechanics, he has shown exactly this.


His career high in those categories is 24 and 9. Which means something, how much I don't know.
Sappelt went 32/11/10 in XBH last season in 133 games.



What do you mean by "he will walk enough considering he isn't going to strike out much"?

K's are pretty meaningless vs. other outs. I certainly don't trade less walks for less K's (vs. other outs).

Well, if we are going to assume a .300 BABIP, a guy who strikes out less doesn't need to walk as much to post a solid OBP. So the fact that a guy strikes out less is generally going to mean he also needs to walk less in order to post a good OBP because his average is going to tend to be higher.

camisadelgolf
08-17-2011, 01:50 AM
Just like nearly all rookies do, Sappelt has gotten away from the plate approach that worked for him in the minors. Look at the big difference between Yonder Alonso of 2010 compared to Yonder Alonso of 2011. Sappelt will be fine--he just needs a little time to get comfortable and go back to the approach that works for him.

Slyder
08-17-2011, 05:08 PM
Well, first off I don't think the batting order matters as much as others may. But that being said, I do think we have a cleanup hitter in the system ready to slot in at catcher. Mesoraco. But even if we don't go that route, we've still got options. Just say screw the lefty-righty stuff and hit Votto & Bruce at 3/4. Personally, if I were to do a lineup, it would probably be something along these lines...

Sappelt LF
Phillips 2b
Votto 1b
Mesoraco C
Bruce RF
Stubbs CF
Frazier 3b
Cozart ss
pitcher

If we decide to not use Devin there, then this...

Sappelt LF
Phillips 2b
Votto 1b
Bruce RF
Stubbs CF
Mesoraco C
Frazier 3b
Cozart ss
pitcher

Simply put, I don't care that much about the lefty/righty order. The only time it really comes into play is in the later innings. By that time you're using pinch hitters for your own pitchers anyway. And with Dusty's penchant for double switching...it's all blown up anyway.

I would make one change to your lineup, I just think Frazier is more of a spot a day 3-4 starts a week guy (one day at 2b, 3b, and LF, SS in a case of an absolute emergency).

Sappelt LF
Phillips 2b
Votto 1b
Bruce RF
Stubbs CF
Alonso 3b
Mesoraco C
Cozart ss
pitcher

If we don't sign anyone.

mth123
08-17-2011, 07:28 PM
I just don't see how anyone can think Stubbs, who is below the very low standard of league average in both OBP and Slugging, is any kind of answer for the middle of the order. He's a 7 hole guy. The reds have a lot of 7 hole guys.

Stubbs has lots of speed and defense, but offensively, he's a poor man's Jonny Gomes.