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View Full Version : Is Walt Jocketty a lame duck?



mth123
08-22-2011, 10:15 PM
Walt Jocketty's deal expires at the end of 2011. Anyone wonder if his seeming reluctance to deal any of the glut of kids with no place to play might be because he'll be stepping down and doesn't want to leave his successor with an empty pipeline. I think its curious that he hasn't re-upped yet.

Bill Bavasi here we come?

Always Red
08-22-2011, 10:19 PM
Walt Jocketty's deal expires at the end of 2011. Anyone wonder if his seeming reluctance to deal any of the glut of kids with no place to play might be because he'll be stepping down and doesn't want to leave his successor with an empty pipeline. I think its curious that he hasn't re-upped yet.

Bill Bavasi here we come?

Or Cam Bonifay?

Kc61
08-22-2011, 10:25 PM
You certainly could be right. Wouldn't be shocked at all if Walt retired soon.

Not sure this is the reason he has been gun shy. My guess is that it has more to do with economics. It's hard to deal for star players when you are extremely limited salary-wise.

But, as usual, your suggestion about Walt's future is insightful.

klw
08-22-2011, 10:26 PM
Or Cam Bonifay?


Bill Bavasi here we come
Or Jim Hendry
:barf::barf::barf::barf::barf:
:barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::b arf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::bar f::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf: :barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::b arf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::bar f::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf: :barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::b arf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::bar f::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf: :barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::b arf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::bar f::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf: :barf::barf::barf:

Oh and :barf:

redsmetz
08-22-2011, 10:44 PM
I think the answer is neither of the choices. At this point, there's few moves at this point in the season that can be accomplished that can't be better done in the off-season. I suspect that any Jocketty extension, if one is in the offing, won't be done until after the season.

And as I said on the other thread, it's just a myth, IMO, that one of these special assistants will necessarily be his replacement. Until we hired Jocketty, it had been 20 years since we hired someone with previous GM experience (Bob Quinn). Why now, simply because we hired this particular former GM, that we're suddenly going to have this certain pattern?

Captain Hook
08-22-2011, 10:54 PM
It's hard to believe this topic has gone so far under the radar here.

I will say that a lack on money and a loosing team could be reason enough for there being no activity. That along with the fact that the main guy other teams wanted is likely to be the Reds starting catcher in the near future explains why no deals got done well enough for me. Still, Walts contract being up and the end of the season is interesting considering that there's been no mention of it in any news that I'm aware of.

Unassisted
08-22-2011, 10:55 PM
And as I said on the other thread, it's just a myth, IMO, that one of these special assistants will necessarily be his replacement. Until we hired Jocketty, it had been 20 years since we hired someone with previous GM experience (Bob Quinn). Why now, simply because we hired this particular former GM, that we're suddenly going to have this certain pattern?Because the Reds have an owner who places great value on the opinions of his current GM and I believe Walt will recommend one of his seasoned lieutenants when he retires. For the preceding 20 years, the Reds had owners who saw an opportunity to pinch pennies by hiring an up-and-comer.

Oh, and I didn't answer the poll because I don't believe that the pipeline is a usable tea leaf for reading Walt's retirement intentions.

mth123
08-22-2011, 11:39 PM
I think the answer is neither of the choices. At this point, there's few moves at this point in the season that can be accomplished that can't be better done in the off-season. I suspect that any Jocketty extension, if one is in the offing, won't be done until after the season.

And as I said on the other thread, it's just a myth, IMO, that one of these special assistants will necessarily be his replacement. Until we hired Jocketty, it had been 20 years since we hired someone with previous GM experience (Bob Quinn). Why now, simply because we hired this particular former GM, that we're suddenly going to have this certain pattern?

But its not just this trade deadline. It was the winter meetings the last two years and the trade deadline in 2010 as well.

HokieRed
08-23-2011, 12:31 AM
Anyone wonder if those prospects--apart from the ones we'd really like to use ourselves--are simply not valued as highly by MLB as they are on RZ?

cincinnati chili
08-23-2011, 03:02 AM
I for one am not seeing a lot of recent trades made by other teams that I wish the Reds had made --- except for some of the teams that RECEIVED prospects.

The best trades are often the ones you don't make, and there's no need to do anything crazy with the Reds so far out.

GAC
08-23-2011, 05:37 AM
I for one am not seeing a lot of recent trades made by other teams that I wish the Reds had made --- except for some of the teams that RECEIVED prospects.

The best trades are often the ones you don't make, and there's no need to do anything crazy with the Reds so far out.

I agree. People are upset because Walt didn't swing some kind of deal before the trading deadline. But we're on the "outside". We have no idea what other variables were in play that prevented us from going after a particular player. We can only guess and speculate concerning "rumors". And rumors are not very reliable sources.

This organization has made huge strides in improving it's farm system, and developing players. And over the last few years to present we're starting to see some positive results. Now that doesn't mean you don't utilize some of them to make a possible deal with another organization if it's to your benefit; but I think the biggest hindrance as to why Walt didn't make a deal for a Bourn, Jimenez, or whoever, was the huge demand these organizations were placing on our farm system. I think a few of these GMs saw the Red's farm system as being loaded with talent and placed some pretty hefty demands in front of Walt hoping he'd bite. He didn't.

IMO, it doesn't matter that they may have went elsewhere for lesser talent (Atlanta, Cleveland). What were they demanding of the Reds? And they obviously weren't relenting.

And there were other variables also to consider.....

If we had been able to swing a deal, and it cost us some solid prospects, would we be able to retain that player(s) past this year, or would they end up rentals? I want deals made that help this team more long term then short.

So I'm not going to fault Walt because he wasn't able to swing something.

REDREAD
08-24-2011, 04:42 PM
Anyone wonder if those prospects--apart from the ones we'd really like to use ourselves--are simply not valued as highly by MLB as they are on RZ?

I think you are right here.

Also, I think deep down, Walt knew this team just had no chance at the division title. He couldn't say publicly that we were not a contender this year, but he did publicly say he was only interested in help for beyond this year.

I'm glad Walt held his chips.. Think about if we went "all in" this year and gave up prospects for Beltran and Edwin Jackson.. Walt would look pretty stupid about now if he did that. I'm also glad we didn't give a comparable package for Jimmeniz that the Indians paid.

Slyder
08-24-2011, 06:52 PM
Walt Jocketty's deal expires at the end of 2011. Anyone wonder if his seeming reluctance to deal any of the glut of kids with no place to play might be because he'll be stepping down and doesn't want to leave his successor with an empty pipeline. I think its curious that he hasn't re-upped yet.

Bill Bavasi here we come?

Please no. I would rather have Jimbo back than Bavasi have ANY opportunity to get his claws on this team. The Mariners are STILL trying to fix the mess he left them.

Ghosts of 1990
08-25-2011, 12:35 AM
I had no idea his contract was up after this year and I can't believe it's not being talked about a little more. You do have to wonder if hanging onto all these prospects and not really making any bold moves is because he doesn't want "Walt screwed it all up" to be his legacy. Seems like he's played it too safe.

redsfandan
08-25-2011, 06:20 PM
Probably not as much as Dusty.

mth123
08-25-2011, 09:48 PM
Probably not as much as Dusty.

But Dusty has a contract and Walt's expires and he had to be lured from retirement to have the one he's got. I think its very reasonable to wonder if he's been planning to step down after 2011 all along.

redsfandan
08-26-2011, 09:37 AM
But Dusty has a contract and Walt's expires and he had to be lured from retirement to have the one he's got. I think its very reasonable to wonder if he's been planning to step down after 2011 all along.

Of the two isn't Walt the one that has a history with Castellini? Which one would Castellini side with?

IslandRed
08-26-2011, 10:47 AM
I don't think mth was implying a he-goes-or-I-go power struggle, just that Dusty is signed through next year and would have to be fired. Which, technically, is "hot seat," not "lame duck."

HokieRed
08-26-2011, 12:55 PM
My money's on both of them being back next year.

RedsManRick
09-13-2011, 05:37 PM
I was surprised to learn yesterday that Walt's contract is up after this year. We all seem to be assuming that he'll be back next year. But is that a safe assumption? I imagine it is, but am curious what others think (or have heard?).

Might Rickett's dithering in Chicago be about waiting for the season to end so he can woo Jocketty?

klw
09-13-2011, 05:51 PM
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91753

Unassisted
09-13-2011, 06:16 PM
The lack of an extension for Jocketty within a month of the end of the season makes me suspect the club's going to announce his retirement on Monday, October 3.

lollipopcurve
09-13-2011, 06:20 PM
I think we'll see a change -- either WJ retires or moves up to club president. (New guy would likely come from within.)

fearofpopvol1
09-13-2011, 06:52 PM
I think Walt is Cast's guy. However, I don't expect the extension to be long and I think if the Reds perform the same way next year they did this year, he will be in trouble.

TRF
09-13-2011, 06:54 PM
I think you are right here.

Also, I think deep down, Walt knew this team just had no chance at the division title. He couldn't say publicly that we were not a contender this year, but he did publicly say he was only interested in help for beyond this year.

I'm glad Walt held his chips.. Think about if we went "all in" this year and gave up prospects for Beltran and Edwin Jackson.. Walt would look pretty stupid about now if he did that. I'm also glad we didn't give a comparable package for Jimmeniz that the Indians paid.

Jimenez last 4 starts, 26 IP 3.11 ERA.

Yeah... that'd suck. And since he wouldn't have changed leagues, he likely doesn't have that horrible stretch after the trade.

Beltran? meh. Jackson? average with spurts, but a lot of miles on his arm already.

But Jocketty made almost no moves in the off-season leading to this one. He did NOT address LF. He did not have the foresight, or hindsight to realize that Rolen was not going to hold up this year. SS... another disaster, and I was for Janish having the job. I never imagined he'd be that bad offensively. The rotation... well it fell apart. quick. Bailey has YET to emerge. Arroyo, awful. Leake? erratic. Wood? regressed... hard. Now Willis is in the rotation. Volquez came back too soon.

But look at all the available talent: Greinke, Marcum (vastly underrated), Lee yes Cliff Lee (The Reds should have landed him in 2010). Chapman SHOULD have been starting day one at AA or AAA. Most were screaming for that.

Now we see a logjam of prospects without positions, a rotation that is thin with nothing in the pipeline for years (Corcino and.... i got nothing).

Jocketty may have known this team couldn't contend. My question is simple: Why is this the team then?

jojo
09-13-2011, 07:02 PM
I don't think Jocketty is on the hot seat. The real question is does Jocketty want to continue being a GM?

mth123
09-13-2011, 07:08 PM
I don't think Jocketty is on the hot seat. The real question is does Jocketty want to continue being a GM?

That has been my premise all along. Walt was coaxed back into the game and signed a deal that expires at the end of the year. I'm guessing he's made few moves to deal future for today so as to not leave his replacement with an empty pipeline because he knows he's riding off into the sunset.

MikeS21
09-13-2011, 07:10 PM
I don't think Jocketty is on the hot seat. The real question is does Jocketty want to continue being a GM?
Ding Ding Ding! And we have a winner!

Jocketty has a job ... only if he wants it. He has done the smart thing by waiting until his farmhands grow up. Why wait until they are ready to contribute and them trade them for someone else's spare parts?

Ron Madden
09-14-2011, 06:36 AM
I've often wondered if Walt just excepted this job on an interim basis, as a favor to Bob Castellini.

GAC
09-14-2011, 06:52 AM
Well... if Walt does decide to leave we always have his Special Assistant Bill Bavasi ready to step in. :scared:

redsmetz
09-14-2011, 09:50 AM
Well... if Walt does decide to leave we always have his Special Assistant Bill Bavasi ready to step in. :scared:

I don't know why folks continue to assume this is a given. More times than not, we hired from outside the organization. But it's practically gospel around here that this will occur.

bucksfan2
09-14-2011, 10:13 AM
I don't know why folks continue to assume this is a given. More times than not, we hired from outside the organization. But it's practically gospel around here that this will occur.

Because you can't complain if you don't expect the worst.

I think Jocketty is the Reds GM for as long as he wants to be.

RichRed
09-14-2011, 10:59 AM
Might Rickett's dithering in Chicago be about waiting for the season to end so he can woo Jocketty?

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/_/id/6467/reds-gm-jocketty-deflects-cubs-talk

Ricketts has been pretty vocal about wanting a more "new-school" type of GM, so I'm guessing he's waiting more for the Red Sox's or Rays' season to end than the Reds. Guess we'll find out if that was all lip service soon enough.

lollipopcurve
09-14-2011, 11:17 AM
MOre speculation about the Chicago job...

www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/7645317-419/walt-jocketty-as-cubs-gm-could-start-whirlwind-that-brings-pujols.html

I could be wrong, but I think WJ is from or lives in the Chicago area. Whichever way he goes, I think Jocketty is going to want to move up to a president's position. He's done a great job of solidifying the Reds front office -- I hope he sticks around. Jocketty will have a lot of value on the open market, and were he to leave the Reds, he'd likely take some people with him. Question is, will Castellini make him an offer he can't refuse?

mdccclxix
09-14-2011, 11:33 AM
MOre speculation about the Chicago job...

www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/7645317-419/walt-jocketty-as-cubs-gm-could-start-whirlwind-that-brings-pujols.html

I could be wrong, but I think WJ is from or lives in the Chicago area. Whichever way he goes, I think Jocketty is going to want to move up to a president's position. He's done a great job of solidifying the Reds front office -- I hope he sticks around. Jocketty will have a lot of value on the open market, and were he to leave the Reds, he'd likely take some people with him. Question is, will Castellini make him an offer he can't refuse?

I thought he had family in St. Louis still, when he was hired that's what they said. Never heard the Chicago connection.

Anyway, I would find it pretty odd that Walt would ditch Bob for a division rival. Their opening press conference was all about how bitter they were with St. Louis (Walt) and Chicago (Dusty), etc. It would be a knife in the back, for sure. Walt's no spring chicken either.