PDA

View Full Version : MVP is back



dunner13
08-25-2011, 10:16 AM
After a big game yesterday and a good few weeks votto is back at the top of the NL, he leads in OPS and OBP, 4th in Slugging, 3rd in AVG, and is just 1 HR outside the top 10. If he stays hot he could end the year with the best numbers in the NL, however with us looking like a 3rd place team I doubt he has much of a shot at his second MVP.

wolfboy
08-25-2011, 12:34 PM
Interesting Fangraphs article today that throws Halladay's name out there for NL MVP. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/roy-halladay-for-nl-mvp/

I found this portion of the article interesting:


The American League MVP race may currently be receiving more publicity, but the NL MVP race is just as exciting. Although Roy Halladay leads the NL in WAR with 6.9, Shane Victorino, Justin Upton, Matt Kemp and Troy Tulowitzki arenít far behind. Looking at the recent trends, one of the position players mentioned is most likely to take home the hardware once the season ends ó most likely Victorino or Upton since they play on contending teams.

Votto is ahead of all of the guys mentioned in WAR (except Halladay) but gets no mention in the MVP discussion. If Kemp and Tulowitzki are in the conversation on third and fourth place teams, shouldn't Votto be as well?

toledodan
08-25-2011, 12:36 PM
i saw on baseball tonight the other day where tim kircher(sp)had him in his top 5 or 6.

Reds1
08-25-2011, 12:42 PM
After a big game yesterday and a good few weeks votto is back at the top of the NL, he leads in OPS and OBP, 4th in Slugging, 3rd in AVG, and is just 1 HR outside the top 10. If he stays hot he could end the year with the best numbers in the NL, however with us looking like a 3rd place team I doubt he has much of a shot at his second MVP.

He also leads in walks! He has made some impressive adjustments. He was being interviewed and talking about how he's not being pitched to as much this year and said he was actually a better player then last year and proud of the adjustments he's made. How cool to have one of the top players in baseball for at least 2 more years. I hope Walt realizes this and makes the roster improvements that can push this team back into the playoffs.

dunner13
08-25-2011, 12:56 PM
In defense of all the "experts" for the first half of the year Votto played great but probably not at MVP level, I think if he keeps it up for the rest of the season and we creep up into 2nd place which I think is very possible he will start getting some serious consideration for MVP.

GoReds
08-25-2011, 02:02 PM
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/25/wheres-the-mvp-love-for-reigning-winner-joey-votto/related/

Looks like someone is paying attention.

reds1869
08-25-2011, 02:13 PM
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/25/wheres-the-mvp-love-for-reigning-winner-joey-votto/related/

Looks like someone is paying attention.

That is good to see. To me the argument over Votto for MVP is similar to the argument over King Felix last year: how much should team success factor into the discussion?

Ghosts of 1990
08-25-2011, 11:55 PM
He is a Hall of Fame talent.

I have a hard time liking him or getting attached to him because he does not want to be here.

It's been fun watching him the past few years. I'll miss him.

wolfboy
08-26-2011, 12:11 AM
He is a Hall of Fame talent.

I have a hard time liking him or getting attached to him because he does not want to be here.

It's been fun watching him the past few years. I'll miss him.

How will you miss him if you have a hard time liking him now?

signalhome
08-26-2011, 02:17 AM
He is a Hall of Fame talent.

I have a hard time liking him or getting attached to him because he does not want to be here.

It's been fun watching him the past few years. I'll miss him.

Not wanting to make a long-term commitment in the offseason does not equal not wanting to be in Cincinnati. He's simply leaving his options open. It's the smart move. One MVP-caliber season would have certainly brought him a good payday. Two straight MVP-caliber seasons, like he has now produced, bring him an even bigger payday. By signing a long-term contract after last season, he would have been leaving a lot of money on the table, and he knew that. Even if playing in Cincinnati is his absolute desire and he could never dream of playing anywhere else, not signing a LTC after last season was the smart business decision.

Anyway, I do not understand why so many people would be upset with Votto for potentially wanting leave Cincinnati and play in Toronto. I certainly understand that mindset, seeing as how I have zero desire to practice my profession (upon finishing school and residency, which, unfortunately, is still about six years down the road) anywhere but my hometown. Some people just love their home and don't really want to be anywhere else; that's no reason to dislike someone. Enjoy Votto while he's here, and hope he stays, but don't be angry with the guy if he doesn't. That being said, would I be disappointed if he left? Absolutely.

reds1869
08-26-2011, 09:38 AM
Anyway, I do not understand why so many people would be upset with Votto for potentially wanting leave Cincinnati and play in Toronto. I certainly understand that mindset, seeing as how I have zero desire to practice my profession (upon finishing school and residency, which, unfortunately, is still about six years down the road) anywhere but my hometown. Some people just love their home and don't really want to be anywhere else; that's no reason to dislike someone. Enjoy Votto while he's here, and hope he stays, but don't be angry with the guy if he doesn't. That being said, would I be disappointed if he left? Absolutely.

Playing in your hometown is a huge draw. Of course, so is winning and so is a bigger paycheck; everyone weights these factors differently and I don't begrudge a player their best interests.

So many folks that are critical of Votto for "wanting to leave" will praise Pete Rose to high heaven in the same breath. You know, the same Pete Rose who left his hometown to play elsewhere. I make no bones about the fact I'm a huge Votto fan, and I'll continue to pull for him if he is in a Toronto uniform in three years. It is easy for me to understand why he might like to leave. I love Cincinnati and love the Reds, but if the opportunity to return to my home state and do what I love arose, I just might have to take it. And so might the MVP. These are people we are talking about, not robots.

signalhome
08-26-2011, 09:44 AM
Playing in your hometown is a huge draw. Of course, so is winning and so is a bigger paycheck; everyone weights these factors differently and I don't begrudge a player their best interests.

So many folks that are critical of Votto for "wanting to leave" will praise Pete Rose to high heaven in the same breath. You know, the same Pete Rose who left his hometown to play elsewhere. I make no bones about the fact I'm a huge Votto fan, and I'll continue to pull for him if he is in a Toronto uniform in three years. It is easy for me to understand why he might like to leave. I love Cincinnati and love the Reds, but if the opportunity to return to my home state and do what I love arose, I just might have to take it. And so might the MVP. These are people we are talking about, not robots.

Well said. A lot of people that get upset about an athlete leaving their favorite team to make more money would probably leave their current job if another job offer with a much higher salary were to present itself. And there's nothing wrong with that.

GoReds
08-26-2011, 09:59 AM
There is nothing wrong with Votto stating that he wants to test free agency - that certainly is his right. And I have yet to hear him actually state that he prefers playing for any specific team, including the Reds or the Blue Jays.

But stating that he wants to test free agency might as well be a declaration that he does not plan to play for the Reds. They simply cannot compete with other teams in constructing a contract for Joey and should not, considering the financial burden.

The Reds should absolutely trade Joey this offseason. No emotion, no hard feelings; just plain common sense. They will never get more for him than they will get this particular offseason. Joey should be parlayed into significant pieces the Reds need to fill in, abeit pitching, shortstop, LF and leadoff.

This has nothing to do with Alonso, it has to do with advanced planning. The Reds are better off getting something for Joey now than waiting for him to walk in a couple of years.

Scrap Irony
08-26-2011, 10:02 AM
The Reds won't be able to match other teams in money for Votto. Nor should they, as a contract the likes of which Votto could command could hamstring this team for a decade.

That said, the minor leagues are producing good, cheap talent at a pretty remarkable rate. Is it too much out of the realm of possibility to think that those cheap, controllable players could play around one bellweather MVP talent in order to produce pennants?

Blitz Dorsey
08-26-2011, 10:07 AM
Meh. I say we try and trade him for a guy that (IMO) is obviously a PED user.

GoReds
08-26-2011, 10:10 AM
Meh. I say we try and trade him for a guy that (IMO) is obviously a PED user.

Yeah, but the Cards may not be willing to trade Pujols. :)

Scrap Irony
08-26-2011, 10:14 AM
I wonder if other teams insist Votto is a PED guy?

His numbers really jumped at the major league level, his power exploded, and he has a penchant for flying off the handle three or four times a year. (And these temper outbursts are highlight worthy.)

He's also from Canada.

wolfboy
08-26-2011, 11:05 AM
He's also from Canada.

Poutine Enhanced Drugs?

Tony Cloninger
08-26-2011, 11:43 AM
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/25/wheres-the-mvp-love-for-reigning-winner-joey-votto/related/

Looks like someone is paying attention.


That photo of him in that article......is basically how we all feel about this season.

Tony Cloninger
08-26-2011, 11:45 AM
Meh. I say we try and trade him for a guy that (IMO) is obviously a PED user.


You mean Curtis Granderson?

HeatherC1212
08-26-2011, 02:53 PM
Poutine Enhanced Drugs?

This made me laugh a lot. :laugh: :thumbup:

mth123
08-26-2011, 08:17 PM
There is no reason the Reds can't sign Votto. He's going to making $19 Million in 2013 (including $2 Million of his signing bonus that was spread over three years. The team has a well stocked pipeline of major league potential players. I'm not sure how many stars there are, but there are plenty of guys who can fill major league roles on the cheap. Let the kids fill those roles and avoid the $2 Million here and there that the teamwastes on a onny Gomes or an Edgar Renteria each year and an ncrease from his 2013 number to a likely annual salary under along term deal is not that far off.

Pay for the centerpiece players and skimp on the role players. The idea of dealing off the central fihure on the team to create salary room for role players when there are cheap alternatives available for those same roles seems crazy IMO.

TeamBoone
08-26-2011, 11:50 PM
Why does everyone think he'll go to Toronto? All I've heard him say is that he'll test the free agency waters. That does not necessarily mean Toronto, even if it is his hometown.

Brutus
08-28-2011, 08:04 PM
I thought it worth noting that Votto is now almost back on pace for his second consecutive, highly prestigious .300-100-30-100-1.000 season.