PDA

View Full Version : Yonder at 3rd Monday night



Pete4prez
08-29-2011, 06:03 PM
This is a good thing, Zo could be our 3rd baseman for the next 10 years, granted his defense will be a bit rough, but time and experiense will solve any 3rd base defensive problems.

mroby85
08-29-2011, 11:18 PM
Did he even get any chances? lol, I had the game on but was doing a fantasy football draft too, I didn't notice anything being hit to 3rd when I was watching...

texasdave
08-29-2011, 11:39 PM
I don't recall him getting any.

Mutaman
08-30-2011, 12:10 AM
but time and experiense will solve any 3rd base defensive problems.

Right. Like it did with EE. :)

mroby85
08-30-2011, 12:14 AM
Right. Like it did with EE. :)

I would've dealt with EE's defense if he had a top notch bat. The annoying thing about him was he wasn't overly effective in either area, lol.

jhiller21
08-30-2011, 06:38 AM
Yonder's bat should make up for any defensive shortcomings at 1st, but it becomes a liability at 3rd.

If he can replace half of Rolen's defensive capability over there, than his bat is worth it, IMO

Red Raindog
08-30-2011, 07:33 AM
Did he even get any chances? lol, I had the game on but was doing a fantasy football draft too, I didn't notice anything being hit to 3rd when I was watching...

No chances --

FireDusty
08-30-2011, 09:06 AM
If this were a situation where Dusty said "We will make this his new position and we will have Scott Rolen mentor him" that would be one thing......but after the game last night all Dusty had to say was.......Homer doesn't give up many ground balls to 3rd so we thought it was a good time to get his bat in the lineup.

Really? That's the message you wanna send to the kid?

God, please rid us of this complete udder 100% joke baffoon loser of a manager.

PLEASE!

Captain13
08-30-2011, 09:37 AM
If this were a situation where Dusty said "We will make this his new position and we will have Scott Rolen mentor him" that would be one thing......but after the game last night all Dusty had to say was.......Homer doesn't give up many ground balls to 3rd so we thought it was a good time to get his bat in the lineup.

Really? That's the message you wanna send to the kid?

God, please rid us of this complete udder 100% joke baffoon loser of a manager.

PLEASE!

Everyone seems to want Yonder's bat in the lineup, Dusty finds a way to get it there and now you are upset. Wow, really?! I understand wanting to get rid of Dusty, but using this example you are grasping at straws.

Vottomatic
08-30-2011, 09:37 AM
Yonder looked awesome at 3B last night. He was really dealin'.

Roush's socks
08-30-2011, 02:03 PM
I like this move (kind of). 3B is not really that different than 1B it's just the other corner. Alonso has been very positive in interviews and says that this was his natural position when he was in HS. If Alonso could OPS at .850 that would make him one of the best hitting 3B in the NL. But if he gives up 40 errors and costs the team 20-30 runs in defense, that would make up for a 20-30 run gain in hitting. In fact it is hard to believe that Alonso would do 20-30 better in runs created over Todd Frazier if they each had a complete season at 3B.

nux fan
08-30-2011, 02:42 PM
alonzo is huge, in fact he may actually be big time

Stray
08-30-2011, 04:04 PM
Could he really be worse than Adum Dunn was in LF? If it were up to me I'd stick him out there and live with the results for the rest of the year.

FireDusty
08-30-2011, 06:18 PM
Everyone seems to want Yonder's bat in the lineup, Dusty finds a way to get it there and now you are upset. Wow, really?! I understand wanting to get rid of Dusty, but using this example you are grasping at straws.

It's the willingness to completely throw the kid under the bus that has been up in arms.

This is a manager who has had the back of legends like Corey Patterson, Willie Tavaras, Jonny Gomes & he throws our best hitting prosepct under the bus with demeaning statements like this?

Grasping for straws? Really?

I can remember exactly zero times that a manager has publicly threw the systems best prospect under the bus as much as Dusty Baker has.

And this is the guy that will be managing the kid? Really? This is the leadership you want leading the way?

Un freaking believable.

Mutaman
08-30-2011, 06:29 PM
This is a manager who has had the back of legends like Corey Patterson, Willie Tavaras, Jonny Gomes & he throws our best hitting prosepct under the bus with demeaning statements like this?
.

Dusty hasn't had a good year, but this wasn't a demeaning statement and he didn't throw anyone under the bus.

On the other hand, if you're finally going to put Alonzo in a game, why do it against one of the best lefthanders in the business?

FireDusty
08-30-2011, 07:32 PM
Dusty hasn't had a good year, but this wasn't a demeaning statement and he didn't throw anyone under the bus.

On the other hand, if you're finally going to put Alonzo in a game, why do it against one of the best lefthanders in the business?

Publicly stating before and after a game that you put the kid a 3rd because you had charts showing they wouldn't hit the ball to him is as demeaning as it gets. I've never ever heard a manager go out of his way to make these type comments before.

150% demeaning in every possible way.

It is exactly how not to lead.

nux fan
08-30-2011, 08:51 PM
it is important to play cairo because he has good potential, if cairo can play consistently he has a chance to be as good as luis quinones

Mutaman
08-30-2011, 09:14 PM
Publicly stating before and after a game that you put the kid a 3rd because you had charts showing they wouldn't hit the ball to him is as demeaning as it gets. I've never ever heard a manager go out of his way to make these type comments before.

150% demeaning in every possible way.

It is exactly how not to lead.

Do you think the statement will warp Alonzo's fragile little mind?

FireDusty
08-30-2011, 09:32 PM
Do you think the statement will warp Alonzo's fragile little mind?

Whatever dude.

If you think this is how you lead men, then you have never lead anyone into anything.

You do not publicly state that you hope that the opponent does not hit the ball to a player because you are saying to that player that you do not believe in him.

Period. End of story.

Redeye fly
08-30-2011, 09:50 PM
It's the willingness to completely throw the kid under the bus that has been up in arms.

This is a manager who has had the back of legends like Corey Patterson, Willie Tavaras, Jonny Gomes & he throws our best hitting prosepct under the bus with demeaning statements like this?

Grasping for straws? Really?

I can remember exactly zero times that a manager has publicly threw the systems best prospect under the bus as much as Dusty Baker has.

And this is the guy that will be managing the kid? Really? This is the leadership you want leading the way?

Un freaking believable.


Yep I'd say you're grasping at straws.

But then again, with a screen name like FireDusty, I'd imagine Dusty Baker could say he likes that blue sky out there and you'd argue that there's a bunch of clouds over in the west and you've seen skies that were a lot more blue than that.

You can call yourself anything you'd like, btw. But I'd imagine with a name like that you look at everything that Dusty says and does and search for the angle you can work so that you can say either in your own mind or to anyone around who will listen that Dusty is a moron who must be fired.

Admittedly there are times that you don't have to look very hard. But that's probably the case with the majority of the managers in the game.

I'm not a big Dusty guy by any stretch. At the same time, I generally don't flip out because of what he's doing with Cordero or Masset or Chapman, or even when he bats Paul Janish second.

But what Dusty said and more to the point what he did is not that out of line from what many other managers would have done. Some of them perhaps would have worded or explained things a bit differently. But if you have a guy in Alonso who's playing a position defensively that he's never played at this level and so you don't know how he'll do, you do want to ease him into it to minimize the risk.

Most people who hate Dusty probably think Davey Johnson is, or at least was, a far superior manager to Dusty. Perhaps he is. But what happened in the Nationals series? He put a young first baseman into the lineup because he felt he needed to jumpstart his offense. So the kid, who actually is playing his natural position, makes 2 crucial errors early in the game which both lead to runs.

You'd be hard pressed to find occasions in which Dusty, who has long been a player's manager, has thrown anyone under the bus. Unless of course you're just looking for reasons and an angle to throw Dusty himself under the bus and want to come up with as many reasons as possible to "fire Dusty". Which I'm pretty sure you do.

There are several intelligent arguments and reasons to want to see Dusty fired. Unfortunately I can't say this is one of them.

FireDusty
08-30-2011, 10:18 PM
Yep I'd say you're grasping at straws.

But then again, with a screen name like FireDusty, I'd imagine Dusty Baker could say he likes that blue sky out there and you'd argue that there's a bunch of clouds over in the west and you've seen skies that were a lot more blue than that.

You can call yourself anything you'd like, btw. But I'd imagine with a name like that you look at everything that Dusty says and does and search for the angle you can work so that you can say either in your own mind or to anyone around who will listen that Dusty is a moron who must be fired.

Admittedly there are times that you don't have to look very hard. But that's probably the case with the majority of the managers in the game.

I'm not a big Dusty guy by any stretch. At the same time, I generally don't flip out because of what he's doing with Cordero or Masset or Chapman, or even when he bats Paul Janish second.

But what Dusty said and more to the point what he did is not that out of line from what many other managers would have done. Some of them perhaps would have worded or explained things a bit differently. But if you have a guy in Alonso who's playing a position defensively that he's never played at this level and so you don't know how he'll do, you do want to ease him into it to minimize the risk.

Most people who hate Dusty probably think Davey Johnson is, or at least was, a far superior manager to Dusty. Perhaps he is. But what happened in the Nationals series? He put a young first baseman into the lineup because he felt he needed to jumpstart his offense. So the kid, who actually is playing his natural position, makes 2 crucial errors early in the game which both lead to runs.

You'd be hard pressed to find occasions in which Dusty, who has long been a player's manager, has thrown anyone under the bus. Unless of course you're just looking for reasons and an angle to throw Dusty himself under the bus and want to come up with as many reasons as possible to "fire Dusty". Which I'm pretty sure you do.

There are several intelligent arguments and reasons to want to see Dusty fired. Unfortunately I can't say this is one of them.I just want him gone.

texasdave
08-31-2011, 12:16 AM
It’s both. I’ve got spray charts where guys are most likely to hit the ball,” Reds manager Dusty Baker said. “Last night with Homer, we knew he wouldn’t get much action.”

So Baker is trying to put Alonso in when the ball won’t be hit his way. That really doesn’t make ideal to determine how well he can play the position. You’d think the Reds would want him to get a tough test at third.

Even John Fay gets it. And I doubt very many people in Yonder's position would appreciate being told we are gonna try to play you when they won't hit the ball to you. Professional athletes have pride.
Is it the end of the world? No. Is it insulting? I would take it that way.

Mutaman
08-31-2011, 12:30 AM
Whatever dude.

If you think this is how you lead men, then you have never lead anyone into anything.

You do not publicly state that you hope that the opponent does not hit the ball to a player because you are saying to that player that you do not believe in him.

Period. End of story.

Well thats a very persuasive argument. There's enough legitimate criticism one can make of Baker without having to manufacture foolishness. But thanks for the lecture on leadership. I'm sure you'er a regular Patton. And I'll let you know when this discussion is ended, "dude".

Redeye fly
08-31-2011, 07:00 AM
Even John Fay gets it. And I doubt very many people in Yonder's position would appreciate being told we are gonna try to play you when they won't hit the ball to you. Professional athletes have pride.
Is it the end of the world? No. Is it insulting? I would take it that way.

In a sense you're right. But there's also an argument to be made for trying to ease an inexperienced player into something and let him have some easy plays or easy nights to build up his confidence.

I don't know if either way is more right than the other.

Vottomatic
08-31-2011, 09:09 AM
Whatever dude.

If you think this is how you lead men, then you have never lead anyone into anything.

You do not publicly state that you hope that the opponent does not hit the ball to a player because you are saying to that player that you do not believe in him.

Period. End of story.

Well said.

Dusty is a den mother.

texasdave
08-31-2011, 10:19 AM
In a sense you're right. But there's also an argument to be made for trying to ease an inexperienced player into something and let him have some easy plays or easy nights to build up his confidence.

I don't know if either way is more right than the other.

I would just say that my philosophy is this: The more you see a player perform, the better you can judge their ability. Whether that is the best way I have no way of knowing. It would be my way though.

bounty37h
08-31-2011, 01:02 PM
Yep I'd say you're grasping at straws.

But then again, with a screen name like FireDusty, I'd imagine Dusty Baker could say he likes that blue sky out there and you'd argue that there's a bunch of clouds over in the west and you've seen skies that were a lot more blue than that.

You can call yourself anything you'd like, btw. But I'd imagine with a name like that you look at everything that Dusty says and does and search for the angle you can work so that you can say either in your own mind or to anyone around who will listen that Dusty is a moron who must be fired.

Admittedly there are times that you don't have to look very hard. But that's probably the case with the majority of the managers in the game.

I'm not a big Dusty guy by any stretch. At the same time, I generally don't flip out because of what he's doing with Cordero or Masset or Chapman, or even when he bats Paul Janish second.

But what Dusty said and more to the point what he did is not that out of line from what many other managers would have done. Some of them perhaps would have worded or explained things a bit differently. But if you have a guy in Alonso who's playing a position defensively that he's never played at this level and so you don't know how he'll do, you do want to ease him into it to minimize the risk.

Most people who hate Dusty probably think Davey Johnson is, or at least was, a far superior manager to Dusty. Perhaps he is. But what happened in the Nationals series? He put a young first baseman into the lineup because he felt he needed to jumpstart his offense. So the kid, who actually is playing his natural position, makes 2 crucial errors early in the game which both lead to runs.

You'd be hard pressed to find occasions in which Dusty, who has long been a player's manager, has thrown anyone under the bus. Unless of course you're just looking for reasons and an angle to throw Dusty himself under the bus and want to come up with as many reasons as possible to "fire Dusty". Which I'm pretty sure you do.

There are several intelligent arguments and reasons to want to see Dusty fired. Unfortunately I can't say this is one of them.

Gotta give a :thumbup: on this overall.

bounty37h
08-31-2011, 01:03 PM
Even John Fay gets it. And I doubt very many people in Yonder's position would appreciate being told we are gonna try to play you when they won't hit the ball to you. Professional athletes have pride.
Is it the end of the world? No. Is it insulting? I would take it that way.

If he has that much pride learn to play the position/defense in general and than there are no concerns and these situations.