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View Full Version : If the same big salaried teams are always in the Playoffs....



Redsfansince72
08-30-2011, 10:32 PM
Would it make you stop watching baseball?? I have to say I am jealous of Phillies, Red Sox and Yankee and Angel fans as they can almost be counted to be in the playoffs and they get any big name player they want!!etc..

If our ownership refuses to go for it for the so-called "Future" ( I get tired of hearing about that term as I have been waiting for a World Championship team since 1990!!!), and our Reds always come up short, never add a big star , never win a playoff series again, and the same teams are in itEVERY year will you start to stop watching and caring??


I know i will get tired of hearing BOB talk Championships but refuse to add to get there!!! and I hate to think I will only have the darn Reds Hall of Fame to look at the past and wish inside we had a owner dedicated to Winning at all costs!

I honstly wish they would go on strike and NOT come back till they either have a Salary cap or a MINIMUM that EACH team has to spend..

just frustrated that 2012, 2013 will be the same as this year..GRRRR

40YrRedsFan
08-30-2011, 11:32 PM
I have already stopped watching postseason games as of several years ago (except for last years Reds series) just for this reason. It was cool to see the Red Sox win in '04, and then the White Sox win in '05, because it had been so long since they had won anything. But since then, it has been the same teams over and over. It just isn't interesting to me to see the $200 million + payroll Yankees or the $220 million + payroll Red Sox, or the $160 million + payroll Phillies play in the World Series. They are on TV all the time now, and I'm tired of them. As far as the Reds, and/or any other small or mid market teams, if MLB doesn't address the situation where the deep pockets buy championships, it will be a long time before we see another championship in Cincy, PIT, KC, HOU, SD, etc.

texasdave
08-30-2011, 11:42 PM
How would you like to be in the AL East and not be a fan of Boston or New York?

Baltimore's last playoff appearance - 1997.
Toronto's last playoff appearance - 1993.

Tampa has made the playoffs twice in the last the last four years. But they had to average over 97 losses a year for a decade to get enough prime draft choices to compete for a couple of seasons. And that window is closing.

It wouldn't surprise me to never see Toronto or Baltimore or Tampa in the playoffs again if things don't change. How can you be a fan of any team that would consider it a success if they made it to the playoffs once a decade?

Ditto as far as watching the post-season. If the Reds make it I will watch. Otherwise, fuggedaboutit.

nux fan
08-30-2011, 11:48 PM
baseballis the best game manages in the worst way, bbefore the season starts half the teams have no chance, including the reds

texasdave
08-31-2011, 12:26 AM
And why don't they show some Red Sox-Yankees games on national tv every year? We hardly ever get to see them.

Jefferson24
08-31-2011, 01:44 AM
baseballis the best game manages in the worst way, bbefore the season starts half the teams have no chance, including the reds

true. I'll always be a Reds fan but I know in this day in age there is no chance they will ever compete for more than the central division. I guess that is my world series, it has to be with this market and payroll. It is like trying to get back to the moon on a shoestring budget, just not going to happen...turn off the lights and pull the plug.

Roush's socks
08-31-2011, 01:55 AM
The NFL does the best job of keeping teams equal. The NBA has the Laker/Celtic tradition, bit they also have teams like the SA Spurs, detroit Pistons etc, and in general the small market teams are competitive in terms of their payroll.

Only in baseball do some teams spend 3-4 times more than others. That is just too much to overcome. If some teams are spending 30-40% more like in the NBA that can be overcome, but not one team spending 200 million and another 60 million.

drowg14
08-31-2011, 03:32 AM
The MLB players union is one of, if not the, strongest unions in the country. Seemingly, the only way to break the players, and achieve a salary cap would be to initiate a very long holdout by the owners. This would have to last at least 1 season, causing the players to start feeling the wallets lighten. And all of the owners would have to be united.

Do you think the Steinbrenners and Henrys of the world would be OK with this solution. They want no cap I would assume, because they make boatloads off of their teams success. Even the teams who are losing, I would assume a good number of them are still making a profit. In their minds, why break a system that works.

How would the fans react to losing a season. The NFL is already vastly more popular than MLB. While the NBA is struggling right now, we don't want to risk having baseball losing popularity, which would make it even harder for the low budget teams to succeed, while the large market teams won't even notice.

And what about the talent pools. The most talented athletes have been heading towards football, and some to basketball, these days. What happens if there is an extended lockout to institute a salary cap. Baseball could lose dozens of future stars to the other sports. Again, small market teams build through the draft.

One last thing, high payroll does not mean success. The Yankees and the Red Sox and the Angels are well run. According to this list, http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/team, the next 3 teams in terms of payroll, after the previous four that were mentioned, are the White Sox, Cubs and Mets. The White Sox are usually pretty good, having a down year this year. The Cubs and Mets have been bad for awhile, sinking money into old expensive players.

Would I like to see the system fixed? Yes. But it would not be an easy fix. The players have too much power at this point, and in the short term the game could take a serious hit.

Roush's socks
08-31-2011, 03:57 AM
The MLB players union is one of, if not the, strongest unions in the country. Seemingly, the only way to break the players, and achieve a salary cap would be to initiate a very long holdout by the owners. This would have to last at least 1 season, causing the players to start feeling the wallets lighten. And all of the owners would have to be united.

Do you think the Steinbrenners and Henrys of the world would be OK with this solution. They want no cap I would assume, because they make boatloads off of their teams success. Even the teams who are losing, I would assume a good number of them are still making a profit. In their minds, why break a system that works.

How would the fans react to losing a season. The NFL is already vastly more popular than MLB. While the NBA is struggling right now, we don't want to risk having baseball losing popularity, which would make it even harder for the low budget teams to succeed, while the large market teams won't even notice.

And what about the talent pools. The most talented athletes have been heading towards football, and some to basketball, these days. What happens if there is an extended lockout to institute a salary cap. Baseball could lose dozens of future stars to the other sports. Again, small market teams build through the draft.

One last thing, high payroll does not mean success. The Yankees and the Red Sox and the Angels are well run. According to this list, http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/team, the next 3 teams in terms of payroll, after the previous four that were mentioned, are the White Sox, Cubs and Mets. The White Sox are usually pretty good, having a down year this year. The Cubs and Mets have been bad for awhile, sinking money into old expensive players.

Would I like to see the system fixed? Yes. But it would not be an easy fix. The players have too much power at this point, and in the short term the game could take a serious hit.

Imagine being a Cubs or Mets fan knowing that your team is outspending nearly everyone and still not making the playoffs. At least the Reds front office is trying to field a team on a budget, and fans still complain that they aren't competitive.

ervinsm84
08-31-2011, 06:52 AM
I get tired of hearing about that term as I have been waiting for a World Championship team since 1990!!!


At least you got to experience a world series win and the 70s glory days. I was too young to know what was going on in 90. Hell, Ive never been at an age that I was old enough to understand what was going on and watch the Bengals or Reds play in a super bowl or world series.

Reds 90 was only 5
Bengals 89 4

Vottomatic
08-31-2011, 09:13 AM
I haven't watched a mlb postseason game since 1990 until the Reds playoff series last year.

I'm not a fan of other teams. Just the Reds. If the Reds aren't going to the postseason, I don't have any interest.

Unlike the NFL where I will watch the postseason because I know the Bengals will never ever get there again.

drowg14
08-31-2011, 12:27 PM
I haven't watched a mlb postseason game since 1990 until the Reds playoff series last year.

I'm not a fan of other teams. Just the Reds. If the Reds aren't going to the postseason, I don't have any interest.

Unlike the NFL where I will watch the postseason because I know the Bengals will never ever get there again.

Skipped the 95 playoffs?
I was too young to remember much of it, but I do remember watching us against the Dodgers, and getting owned by the Braves

plowshareredfan
08-31-2011, 01:02 PM
I just dont get it. As someone buying a professional franchise, be it NBA NFL MLB, you know going in the teams that spend are the teams that win. You know the market size of the franchise you are buying. Are you buying in just to say you own a major league ball club or are you buying in to be the best. If you arent prepared to do what it takes to win (SPEND) thendont buy in the first place. IM tired of hearing that the REDS are a small market team. I know that. So should the ownership group. They should also know before buying in no matter the market size, you have to spend to win and they should be prepared to spend.

Roush's socks
08-31-2011, 02:30 PM
I just dont get it. As someone buying a professional franchise, be it NBA NFL MLB, you know going in the teams that spend are the teams that win. You know the market size of the franchise you are buying. Are you buying in just to say you own a major league ball club or are you buying in to be the best. If you arent prepared to do what it takes to win (SPEND) thendont buy in the first place. IM tired of hearing that the REDS are a small market team. I know that. So should the ownership group. They should also know before buying in no matter the market size, you have to spend to win and they should be prepared to spend.

WRONG. It is ridiculous to think that an ownership group in a city like Cincy could compete with teams form NY or LA unless there are salary caps. THAT IS WHY the NFL and NBA have salary caps to keep it closer to a level playing field. Teams in small markets will NEVER make the money on media/TV licensing and distribution that teams like the Cubs (WGN) or the Yankees or Dodgers make. To act like "the Cincy owners need to spend as much as Steinbrenner or they should just get out" is crazy.

plowshareredfan
08-31-2011, 03:55 PM
The Reds ownership knew going in there was no salary cap and that they couldnt spend the way the Yankees, Red Sox Dodgers, etc do. They also should have realised they couldnt compete with these teams yearly without spending the way they do. So why did they buy the team to begin with.

drowg14
08-31-2011, 04:23 PM
The Reds ownership knew going in there was no salary cap and that they couldnt spend the way the Yankees, Red Sox Dodgers, etc do. They also should have realised they couldnt compete with these teams yearly without spending the way they do. So why did they buy the team to begin with.

Step 1: Purchase MLB team.
Step 2:???
Step 3: Profit.

brm7675
08-31-2011, 05:20 PM
Would it make you stop watching baseball?? I have to say I am jealous of Phillies, Red Sox and Yankee and Angel fans as they can almost be counted to be in the playoffs and they get any big name player they want!!etc..

If our ownership refuses to go for it for the so-called "Future" ( I get tired of hearing about that term as I have been waiting for a World Championship team since 1990!!!), and our Reds always come up short, never add a big star , never win a playoff series again, and the same teams are in itEVERY year will you start to stop watching and caring??


I know i will get tired of hearing BOB talk Championships but refuse to add to get there!!! and I hate to think I will only have the darn Reds Hall of Fame to look at the past and wish inside we had a owner dedicated to Winning at all costs!

I honstly wish they would go on strike and NOT come back till they either have a Salary cap or a MINIMUM that EACH team has to spend..

just frustrated that 2012, 2013 will be the same as this year..GRRRR

Neither side want any part of a salary cap, never happen in baseball.

webbbj
08-31-2011, 06:19 PM
The Reds ownership knew going in there was no salary cap and that they couldnt spend the way the Yankees, Red Sox Dodgers, etc do. They also should have realised they couldnt compete with these teams yearly without spending the way they do. So why did they buy the team to begin with.

UHHH to make money.

plowshareredfan
08-31-2011, 06:38 PM
Then dont feed me this We want to bring a winner to this city trash. Just tell me up front you want to make a few bucks and have a nice bottom line

drowg14
08-31-2011, 10:16 PM
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6910166/father-time-philadelphia-phillies

Found that story today. Thought it was relevant to the topic.

Todd Gack
08-31-2011, 11:04 PM
Neither side want any part of a salary cap, never happen in baseball.

Which is the way it should be.

webbbj
08-31-2011, 11:26 PM
Then dont feed me this We want to bring a winner to this city trash. Just tell me up front you want to make a few bucks and have a nice bottom line

he did win a division. im not gonna defend him or bash him. I think there will be some value lost with this team if they dont make a big move via trade in the offseason. i think the offseason will be the defining moment in his tenure for sure.

And I wouldnt get too caught up in what any owner says when they just buy a team. I mean hes trying to sell the fans on himself, his team, his brand etc. What do expect him to say "winning is secondary to my bottomline" I mean its most likely true but that would be a disaster to his purchase to claim that.

I have seen moves and changes to make this organization a consistent winner. But I agree its gonna be a competitive team on a budget. They have invested in scouting, minor league development, investing in our good young players last off season, he has also built a brand and brought a buzz to the city.

powersackers
09-01-2011, 01:38 AM
I would love to see a $100M payroll and above MLB postseason and an under $99M payroll postseason.

Save the Diamondbacks, Braves and Brewers, we darn near have the top end of that already.