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corkedbat
09-05-2011, 07:00 AM
Saw where the Dayton 3B had a double (37), a HR (20) and 2 RBIs (85) last night to go with a .280 AVG and a .850 OPS. He's put together quite a season for the Dragons.

dougdirt
09-05-2011, 07:02 AM
Good defender as well.

corkedbat
09-05-2011, 07:36 AM
As a matter of fact, I don't remember much power output below AAA and above rookie ball last year. There were several pretty good performances this year.

Among the best (.Avg/2B/3B/HR/RBI/.OPS):

Soto......... .275/19/3/30/78/.897
Reinhardt... .285/22/2/28/88/.946
Campbell.... .310/37/1/20/83/.935
Vidal......... .280/37/1/20/85/.850
Lutz......... .301/23/3/20/75/.850

Especially impressive when you remember they play over a month less than MLB players.

icehole3
09-05-2011, 09:19 AM
Id like to see each guy given some time in the OF, now is the time not when theyre ready to play in the bigs :)

mth123
12-24-2011, 07:32 PM
Bumping to get some discussion going on Vidal. How soon will Vidal be ready? Is it possible he's a quick comer? Half a seaon in A+ and a half a season in AA followed by an AFL stint and ready to compete with Francisco and Frazier in 2013 (or at least in line at AAA if they should prove lacking). He's probably the best defender at 3B of the group and may be more rounded than the others.

As an 8th rounder who is only 22, I'm probably being too aggressive but just wondering.

dougdirt
12-24-2011, 07:41 PM
Bumping to get some discussion going on Vidal. How soon will Vidal be ready? Is it possible he's a quick comer? Half a seaon in A+ and a half a season in AA followed by an AFL stint and ready to compete with Francisco and Frazier in 2013 (or at least in line at AAA if they should prove lacking). He's probably the best defender at 3B of the group and may be more rounded than the others.

As an 8th rounder who is only 22, I'm probably being too aggressive but just wondering.

Probably too aggressive on your prediction there. But, if his plate discipline from the second half was a legit step forward in his skilllset, you could be right.

Edd Roush
12-27-2011, 04:54 PM
Bumping to get some discussion going on Vidal. How soon will Vidal be ready? Is it possible he's a quick comer? Half a seaon in A+ and a half a season in AA followed by an AFL stint and ready to compete with Francisco and Frazier in 2013 (or at least in line at AAA if they should prove lacking). He's probably the best defender at 3B of the group and may be more rounded than the others.

As an 8th rounder who is only 22, I'm probably being too aggressive but just wondering.

I love the axiom of challenge thy hitters and coddle thy pitchers. Vidal will most likely rake in any stint at A+ because of how skewed to hitters the league is. Due to this and my belief that positional prospects should be advanced at a more rapid pace than pitching prospects, I would have no problem moving Vidal to AA after the All-Star break if he has a .850+ OPS in A+. I just don't think we are going to learn too much from typical statistics in the California league as we struggled with this in the Florida State League.

If Vidal mashes in A+ for a half year and AA for a half year, while still sporting a good glove, I would have no problem allowing him to compete with Francisco/Frazier for the full-time spot in 2013. Most likely, I will still want a veteran to compete for that spot as well since 2013 will still be in "our window" but if he tears up AA, I could see him as a big time prospect.

Vidal hasn't been around too long and has really flown under the radar since he was an 8th rounder. I personally have him at the tail end of my top-20, but I could see him skyrocketing up my personal board if he mashes in AA next year like I think he could.

mth123
12-27-2011, 08:01 PM
I love the axiom of challenge thy hitters and coddle thy pitchers. Vidal will most likely rake in any stint at A+ because of how skewed to hitters the league is. Due to this and my belief that positional prospects should be advanced at a more rapid pace than pitching prospects, I would have no problem moving Vidal to AA after the All-Star break if he has a .850+ OPS in A+. I just don't think we are going to learn too much from typical statistics in the California league as we struggled with this in the Florida State League.

If Vidal mashes in A+ for a half year and AA for a half year, while still sporting a good glove, I would have no problem allowing him to compete with Francisco/Frazier for the full-time spot in 2013. Most likely, I will still want a veteran to compete for that spot as well since 2013 will still be in "our window" but if he tears up AA, I could see him as a big time prospect.

Vidal hasn't been around too long and has really flown under the radar since he was an 8th rounder. I personally have him at the tail end of my top-20, but I could see him skyrocketing up my personal board if he mashes in AA next year like I think he could.

Basically how I see it. A stint in the Arizona Fall League at the end of the year might be a bit of a test for him. 80 to 100 PAs against "All Stars" from his competition level may provide an indication of something (or it could just be a small sample size). The pitching in the AFL isn't always the best since they try to limit innings on some guys, but comparing him to the others in the league would seem somewhat instructive as to how far along he is.

Vottomatic
12-27-2011, 08:11 PM
I'm a big believer in giving an up and comer a taste of the big leagues in September, probably a year before they're ready. Seems like Alonso and others did better this year after tasting it in 2010. Obviously an adjustment playing in the majors versus the minors...........bigger crowds, more fringe benefits, etc. Probably some intimidation at first.

But I also realize that starting their major league clock can be a factor too.

Benihana
12-27-2011, 11:29 PM
I'd start Vidal in AA, Buckley in A+, Arias in Dayton and Rosa in Billings. Then let the chips fall where they may.

dougdirt
12-28-2011, 02:11 AM
I'd start Vidal in AA, Buckley in A+, Arias in Dayton and Rosa in Billings. Then let the chips fall where they may.

Not the worst idea ever. In fact, I like it.

Edd Roush
12-28-2011, 08:44 AM
I'm a big believer in giving an up and comer a taste of the big leagues in September, probably a year before they're ready. Seems like Alonso and others did better this year after tasting it in 2010. Obviously an adjustment playing in the majors versus the minors...........bigger crowds, more fringe benefits, etc. Probably some intimidation at first.

But I also realize that starting their major league clock can be a factor too.

So you want Vidal getting crucial ABs in September while the Reds are in the midst of their second pennant chase in 10 years?

Vottomatic
12-28-2011, 09:52 AM
So you want Vidal getting crucial ABs in September while the Reds are in the midst of their second pennant chase in 10 years?

No. I don't care about the AB's. I just think it's good for them to get a feel for all the behind the scenes stuff in the major leagues, sitting in the dugout with true major leaguers, listening, learning.............I don't care if he gets 5 at-bats. I know if I was in the minors and never been to the majors, it would be kind of intimidating. The adjustment to even the pampered part would take some time. And not like they need any more motivation, but getting a taste would surely wet their whistle of desire to work even harder to get there, once they see how great it is (which I'm sure they already knew).

As stated, the adjustment to all the other stuff outside of the game is why I want them to get a taste.

Edd Roush
12-28-2011, 11:02 AM
No. I don't care about the AB's. I just think it's good for them to get a feel for all the behind the scenes stuff in the major leagues, sitting in the dugout with true major leaguers, listening, learning.............I don't care if he gets 5 at-bats. I know if I was in the minors and never been to the majors, it would be kind of intimidating. The adjustment to even the pampered part would take some time. And not like they need any more motivation, but getting a taste would surely wet their whistle of desire to work even harder to get there, once they see how great it is (which I'm sure they already knew).

As stated, the adjustment to all the other stuff outside of the game is why I want them to get a taste.

The problem about him "getting a taste" in the major leagues without actually playing is that you are adding a guy to the 40-man who doesn't need to be added before he needs to be. Therefore, you are losing someone off the 40 man roster just to let a guy sit in the dugout.

I personally don't think he gets too much sitting in the dugout, but neither of us know first-hand. I think he will get much more ready for the major leagues playing in minor league games. Once the minor league playoffs are over, I wouldn't mind Vidal coming to Cincinnati and hanging out with the players as much he can for a guy not on the 40 man roster, but I see no reason to add him just so he can officially be on the team in September.

lollipopcurve
12-28-2011, 01:57 PM
Cart has barreled down the hill and the horse is still on top re: Vidal here. There are 2 guys in front of him who are going to get a shot before he does, if he ever does. Francisco is 1st in line, and his ceiling is high. Then HRod, who's playing 3B this winter. I wouldn't kick either to the curb just yet.

Edd Roush
12-28-2011, 02:39 PM
Cart has barreled down the hill and the horse is still on top re: Vidal here. There are 2 guys in front of him who are going to get a shot before he does, if he ever does. Francisco is 1st in line, and his ceiling is high. Then HRod, who's playing 3B this winter. I wouldn't kick either to the curb just yet.

I personally do not want to give up on either HRod or Francisco yet. However, I don't really see too much of a problem challenging Vidal in AA. Francisco is likely to be in Cincinnati all of next year. If not, he will be playing 3B for Louisville either way.

Also, as far as I knew, while HRod can play 3B, he is still seen more as a 2B.

Considering Phillips may no longer be a Red in 2012, I see no reason to move HRod to 3B full-time. If the Reds do extend Phillips and he is now "blocked," there is still the likelihood that Francisco will be in the bigs and 3B will be open for HRod.

Since Rolen hasn't done too much since the first half of 2010, I think the Reds need to generate as many viable alternatives as possible relating to candidates for 3B in 2013. Therefore, the Reds should challenge Vidal in AA.

I don't think pushing Vidal is going to take away from Francisco and/or HRod. Francisco will likely get his audition this year in the bigs on Rolen's off days. HRod will be getting regular ABs in AAA, either at 3B or 2B and Vidal should be facing stiff competition to give him a chance to play in the bigs in 2013.

corkedbat
12-28-2011, 07:48 PM
I personally do not want to give up on either HRod or Francisco yet. However, I don't really see too much of a problem challenging Vidal in AA. Francisco is likely to be in Cincinnati all of next year. If not, he will be playing 3B for Louisville either way.

Also, as far as I knew, while HRod can play 3B, he is still seen more as a 2B.

Considering Phillips may no longer be a Red in 2012, I see no reason to move HRod to 3B full-time. If the Reds do extend Phillips and he is now "blocked," there is still the likelihood that Francisco will be in the bigs and 3B will be open for HRod.

Since Rolen hasn't done too much since the first half of 2010, I think the Reds need to generate as many viable alternatives as possible relating to candidates for 3B in 2013. Therefore, the Reds should challenge Vidal in AA.

I don't think pushing Vidal is going to take away from Francisco and/or HRod. Francisco will likely get his audition this year in the bigs on Rolen's off days. HRod will be getting regular ABs in AAA, either at 3B or 2B and Vidal should be facing stiff competition to give him a chance to play in the bigs in 2013.

i see Hrod as a 2B or Utility IF. If Juan is still around by 2013 let him compete (or maybe even move to 1B). With Hcukley most likely just a year or so behind Vidal, so it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to get the lsser defender a few innings at 1B or even LF too.

dougdirt
12-28-2011, 07:48 PM
Also, as far as I knew, while HRod can play 3B, he is still seen more as a 2B.


Agreed. I don't think he is a third baseman. I don't think the Reds see him as one either.

Hypnotoad
12-28-2011, 08:26 PM
Agreed. I don't think he is a third baseman. I don't think the Reds see him as one either.

I agree as well. When I saw him in Dayton he had trouble throwing hard to 1B from second - I can't imagine him firing it across the infield all the way from third.

The DARK
01-01-2012, 02:08 AM
Even if H-Rod can play a decent 3B, his bat will be much less valuable there than if he sticks at 2B. Vidal's bat appears stronger and he mans the position better, so I don't think he'll be a problem. As for Francisco, this season will go a long way towards determining how exactly he fits into our plans. Rolen's contract expires after the year, so he's either going to have to be replaced by Frazier, Francisco, or something external. Those two have been hovering in AAA for a while now, and I'd say this next season is now or never for determining if they're MLB starter material.

But Vidal's way isn't all that clogged... I'd say he has the easiest positional path to the majors of all as of today.

lollipopcurve
01-01-2012, 08:25 AM
But Vidal's way isn't all that clogged... I'd say he has the easiest positional path to the majors of all as of today.

That would be the OF prospects -- Lamarre, Phipps, Lutz (who has played some LF), even Yorman if he re-establishes himself.

mth123
05-13-2012, 09:48 PM
Vidal to AA. Maybe premature, but if he plays well, could this be the beginning of a fast tracking?

camisadelgolf
05-13-2012, 10:01 PM
Vidal to AA. Maybe premature, but if he plays well, could this be the beginning of a fast tracking?
Henry Rodriguez had thumb surgery and was put on the disabled list. I think it was just a matter of Vidal being the most qualified replacement.

mth123
05-13-2012, 10:03 PM
Henry Rodriguez had thumb surgery and was put on the disabled list. I think it was just a matter of Vidal being the most qualified replacement.

Agreed, but Rolen is out too. If Vidal hits....

camisadelgolf
05-13-2012, 10:19 PM
Agreed, but Rolen is out too. If Vidal hits....
Well, the Reds aren't exactly plush with 3B prospects in the high minors. I would be extremely surprised if Vidal makes it to the show this year, but I think a cup of coffee next year is reasonable. Between Frazier, Cairo, Valdez, Costanzo, Harris, Valaika, Negron (and eventually Rolen, Janish, Rodriguez), I just think the Reds have too many internal options to consider before risking ruining a prospect's development.

powersackers
05-14-2012, 02:47 AM
Dang, he's getting close to the bigs. I should have let him date my step daughter last year at Dayton when he tried to do so.

camisadelgolf
05-14-2012, 02:54 AM
Dang, he's getting close to the bigs. I should have let him date my step daughter last year at Dayton when he tried to do so.
Fine, I'll do it. PM me an address.

powersackers
05-14-2012, 03:12 AM
Fine, I'll do it. PM me an address.

Ah LOL, no PM needed, just search Google Maps for the corner of No and Way Streets in Dayton.

corkedbat
05-14-2012, 01:17 PM
Read some comments earlier this spring that questioned whether Vidal was too small to generate that much power at the major league level. I did some digging though and came up with: David Vidal: 5-11/185 Chris Sabo: 5-11/185.

Spuds Jr.? :)

Didn't think 5-11/185 was all that small for a baseball player.

RED VAN HOT
05-14-2012, 02:49 PM
Read some comments earlier this spring that questioned whether Vidal was too small to generate that much power at the major league level. I did some digging though and came up with: David Vidal: 5-11/185 Chris Sabo: 5-11/185.

Spuds Jr.? :)

Didn't think 5-11/185 was all that small for a baseball player.

Do you recall anything more about the comments? It seems to me that having a swing that can be exploited by ML pitching could call into question a player's ability to hit for power at the ML level. I'ts not clear to me how size could affect it.

lollipopcurve
05-14-2012, 03:26 PM
Didn't think 5-11/185 was all that small for a baseball player.

Vidal may go 185, but I think 5'11" is quite generous.

corkedbat
05-14-2012, 03:54 PM
Vidal may go 185, but I think 5'11" is quite generous.

Could be. I was just going by what the Reds official rosters had for he and Sabo.

Scrap Irony
05-14-2012, 10:09 PM
It's more than generous for Sabo as well. I stood next to him for about three hours one hot Independence night, and, for the most part, we stood eye to eye.

I'm between 5'8" and 5'9".