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Tornon
09-05-2011, 10:04 PM
Currently pitching for the White Sox against the Twins in Minneapolis. Nobody has reached base through 7 innings against him..

Tornon
09-05-2011, 10:13 PM
Nope, leadoff double for Valencia in the 8th. It was kinda cool seeing Zach get that deep though

Tom Servo
09-05-2011, 10:46 PM
The Cy Young push begins.



Congrats to Stewart on his effort tonight.

dougdirt
09-05-2011, 10:56 PM
I have always liked that kid.

Mario-Rijo
09-06-2011, 05:17 AM
I have always liked that kid.

Same here..

TRF
09-06-2011, 09:23 AM
I saw the story and decided to look at his game log.

He's pitched in 10 games this year, 8 of them starts. in 3 of his starts he gave up 5 runs and 6 runs and 7 runs. in the other 5 starts he went at least 6 innings and never gave up more than 2 runs.

Which isn't unexpected for a rookie, especially one traded 3 starts into his MLB career. I'd rather have Stewart than Leake. JMO.

medford
09-06-2011, 10:06 AM
I'd rather have Stewart than Leake. JMO.

Wait, I thought this was a Stewart or Rolen debate? Are you saying we should have traded Leake for Rolen? :D

TRF
09-06-2011, 12:08 PM
funny. I was in the "The Reds overpaid for Rolen" camp. I'd even go so far as to say the Reds SHOULDN'T have traded for Rolen. He's 36, has a nice long injury history and though he's far and away the best defensive 3B I've seen in red in the last 20 years, his bat has vanished since the ASB of 2010. 8 mil for 65 games? And yet we don't hear the outrage like we did with Griffey. And is anyone really expecting 120+ games or a .780+ OPS from him next year? really?

IMO, the best the Reds should hope for is he's mobile enough to help the next 3B (Francisco, Frazier or even Alonso).

PuffyPig
09-06-2011, 12:12 PM
funny. I was in the "The Reds overpaid for Rolen" camp. I'd even go so far as to say the Reds SHOULDN'T have traded for Rolen. He's 36, has a nice long injury history and though he's far and away the best defensive 3B I've seen in red in the last 20 years, his bat has vanished since the ASB of 2010. 8 mil for 65 games? And yet we don't hear the outrage like we did with Griffey. And is anyone really expecting 120+ games or a .780+ OPS from him next year? really?

IMO, the best the Reds should hope for is he's mobile enough to help the next 3B (Francisco, Frazier or even Alonso).


Sure we overpaid, but I wouldn't take back the trade, we don't win the division without Rolen last year.

And I'd take Leake over Stewart, we probbaly don't win the division without Leake either.

I wouldn't mind Stewart back though.

Blitz Dorsey
09-06-2011, 12:24 PM
funny. I was in the "The Reds overpaid for Rolen" camp. I'd even go so far as to say the Reds SHOULDN'T have traded for Rolen. He's 36, has a nice long injury history and though he's far and away the best defensive 3B I've seen in red in the last 20 years, his bat has vanished since the ASB of 2010. 8 mil for 65 games? And yet we don't hear the outrage like we did with Griffey. And is anyone really expecting 120+ games or a .780+ OPS from him next year? really?

IMO, the best the Reds should hope for is he's mobile enough to help the next 3B (Francisco, Frazier or even Alonso).

We don't hear the outrage we did with Griffey for two main reasons:

* We knew we were getting Rolen near the end of his career. Griffey, on the other hand, was supposedly still in his prime (or at least barely removed from his prime) when the Reds traded for him.

* Rolen's contract doesn't even approach Griffey's. It doesn't completely prevent the club from making big moves in the offseason. (Walt still might do nothing, but at least he is not completely hamstrung by a bad contract.) And Rolen only has one more year on his deal. Once it was clear that Griffey was washed up, the Reds still had like 5 years left on his deal. And he was making a ton of money. Rolen's contract doesn't have nearly the negative affect on the franchise that Griffey's did.

Also, and this is JMO, I think a lot of fans believed Griffey was lazy. That's not the case with Rolen.

crazybob60
09-06-2011, 12:25 PM
Sure am happy for Stewart, but I will be more interested to see how Stewart does his next time out and for next year too before passing too much judgement on this outing.

medford
09-06-2011, 01:15 PM
We don't hear the outrage we did with Griffey for two main reasons:

* We knew we were getting Rolen near the end of his career. Griffey, on the other hand, was supposedly still in his prime (or at least barely removed from his prime) when the Reds traded for him.

* Rolen's contract doesn't even approach Griffey's. It doesn't completely prevent the club from making big moves in the offseason. (Walt still might do nothing, but at least he is not completely hamstrung by a bad contract.) And Rolen only has one more year on his deal. Once it was clear that Griffey was washed up, the Reds still had like 5 years left on his deal. And he was making a ton of money. Rolen's contract doesn't have nearly the negative affect on the franchise that Griffey's did.

Also, and this is JMO, I think a lot of fans believed Griffey was lazy. That's not the case with Rolen.

I'd also add, that w/ Rolen, the Reds won the division and went to the playoffs last season. Winning covers a lot of sins, real or perceived. A vast majority of the teams that Griffey played on here, faded down the stretch and never saw a real penant chase in late august/september.

Ron Madden
09-06-2011, 02:37 PM
I'd also add, that w/ Rolen, the Reds won the division and went to the playoffs last season. Winning covers a lot of sins, real or perceived. A vast majority of the teams that Griffey played on here, faded down the stretch and never saw a real penant chase in late august/september.

Yep. Because of lousy pitching.

westofyou
09-06-2011, 03:07 PM
www.baseballmusings.com


Stewart doesn’t strike me as a pitcher likely to throw a low-hitter in the majors. His minor league numbers are okay. Even with the one-hitter last night, the league is batting .291 against him. The Twins simply put a very bad lineup on the field, with seven of the nine starters now hitting .250 or less, two of them under .200. Stewart pitched a great game against a bad team, and he walks away with a start that might turn out to be the best of his career.

TRF
09-06-2011, 03:21 PM
Stewart's game log

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/30609/zach-stewart

He's faced the Twins 3 times, got manhandled once and did very well twice. He's pitched well against DET, KC and BAL. Maybe that was his best game, but hell that's some HOF pitcher's best games too. And no, I'm NOT saying Zach Stewart is going the the HOF. Just stating that the post woy cited leaves a lot of room for performance variation. If that is his peak and he pitches say 85% as well as that over the course of his career, then that's a pretty good career.

To keep it somewhat in the Reds family, I think Stewart has more upside than Dustin Mosely

Scrap Irony
09-06-2011, 03:56 PM
I wouldn't take back the trade, we don't win the division without Rolen last year.

This.

The Rolen deal got us where we needed to go.

TRF
09-06-2011, 04:11 PM
This.

The Rolen deal got us where we needed to go.

Maybe.

Or maybe it was actually Orlando Cabrera that got the Reds where they needed to go.

Seeing as how the Reds were never really in it this year sans Rolen, and his age plus health makes his 8+ million dollar salary for next year for who knows what kind of performance a little albatrossy.

Post ASB 2010 .277 .352 .420 .772
All of 2011 .242 .279 .397 .676

And he turns 37 in April.

So, I was in the overpaid camp. I was pretty alone in the "don't trade for him camp". And I still believe that. Especially if next year is more of the same as this year. Shoulder injuries sap power. Especially for guys with chronic back problems as well.

Homer Bailey
09-06-2011, 04:57 PM
I was against the trade. I still think we overpaid. However, I don't think the Reds win the division w/o Rolen last year, so I wouldn't undo the trade. It's easy to forget, but he was nearly a 5 win player last year. A rebound from Rolen will be one of the biggest keys to a successful season for the Reds in 2012, IMO.

Patrick Bateman
09-06-2011, 04:58 PM
Maybe.

Or maybe it was actually Orlando Cabrera that got the Reds where they needed to go.

Seeing as how the Reds were never really in it this year sans Rolen, and his age plus health makes his 8+ million dollar salary for next year for who knows what kind of performance a little albatrossy.

Post ASB 2010 .277 .352 .420 .772
All of 2011 .242 .279 .397 .676

And he turns 37 in April.

So, I was in the overpaid camp. I was pretty alone in the "don't trade for him camp". And I still believe that. Especially if next year is more of the same as this year. Shoulder injuries sap power. Especially for guys with chronic back problems as well.

Well considering that Rolen was a near elite 3rd basemen last season, and Cabrera stunk, I'm leaning towards thinking that Rolen was the more valuable player.

TRF
09-06-2011, 05:42 PM
Well considering that Rolen was a near elite 3rd basemen last season, and Cabrera stunk, I'm leaning towards thinking that Rolen was the more valuable player.

He was near elite for half a season. not so much the second half.

TRF
09-06-2011, 05:45 PM
2011 37 year old 3B

RK PLAYER TEAM AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
1 Geoff Blum ARI 21 5 6 1 0 2 5 0 0 2 5 .286 .348 .619 .967
2 Chipper Jones ATL 372 48 103 26 1 15 60 2 2 45 61 .277 .352 .473 .825
3 Miguel Cairo CIN 227 32 60 8 2 7 31 2 3 17 32 .264 .331 .410 .740
4 Casey Blake LAD 202 32 51 10 1 4 26 1 2 26 50 .252 .342 .371 .713
5 Omar Vizquel CHW 158 17 39 6 1 0 8 1 2 9 17 .247 .284 .297 .581
6 Miguel Tejada SF 322 28 77 16 0 4 26 4 4 12 35 .239 .270 .326 .596
7 Melvin Mora ARI 127 5 29 6 0 0 16 0 1 2 24 .228 .244 .276 .520

Exactly what kind of rebound is anyone really expecting?

dougdirt
09-06-2011, 06:13 PM
2011 37 year old 3B

RK PLAYER TEAM AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
1 Geoff Blum ARI 21 5 6 1 0 2 5 0 0 2 5 .286 .348 .619 .967
2 Chipper Jones ATL 372 48 103 26 1 15 60 2 2 45 61 .277 .352 .473 .825
3 Miguel Cairo CIN 227 32 60 8 2 7 31 2 3 17 32 .264 .331 .410 .740
4 Casey Blake LAD 202 32 51 10 1 4 26 1 2 26 50 .252 .342 .371 .713
5 Omar Vizquel CHW 158 17 39 6 1 0 8 1 2 9 17 .247 .284 .297 .581
6 Miguel Tejada SF 322 28 77 16 0 4 26 4 4 12 35 .239 .270 .326 .596
7 Melvin Mora ARI 127 5 29 6 0 0 16 0 1 2 24 .228 .244 .276 .520

Exactly what kind of rebound is anyone really expecting?

Can I hope for a Geoff Blum type of slash line?

signalhome
09-06-2011, 06:17 PM
Exactly what kind of rebound is anyone really expecting?

I'd be thrilled to get Chipper's offensive production.

camisadelgolf
09-06-2011, 09:19 PM
2011 37 year old 3B

RK PLAYER TEAM AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
1 Geoff Blum ARI 21 5 6 1 0 2 5 0 0 2 5 .286 .348 .619 .967
2 Chipper Jones ATL 372 48 103 26 1 15 60 2 2 45 61 .277 .352 .473 .825
3 Miguel Cairo CIN 227 32 60 8 2 7 31 2 3 17 32 .264 .331 .410 .740
4 Casey Blake LAD 202 32 51 10 1 4 26 1 2 26 50 .252 .342 .371 .713
5 Omar Vizquel CHW 158 17 39 6 1 0 8 1 2 9 17 .247 .284 .297 .581
6 Miguel Tejada SF 322 28 77 16 0 4 26 4 4 12 35 .239 .270 .326 .596
7 Melvin Mora ARI 127 5 29 6 0 0 16 0 1 2 24 .228 .244 .276 .520

Exactly what kind of rebound is anyone really expecting?
Four of those seven players improved their OPS+ over the previous year. Why would an increase in production be such a surprise?

Chip R
09-06-2011, 10:18 PM
Justin Verlander needs to watch his back now. Just saying.

PuffyPig
09-06-2011, 10:21 PM
He was near elite for half a season. not so much the second half.

Cabrera had an OPS+ last year of 76, Rolen had 126.

You've got to be kidding.

westofyou
09-06-2011, 10:41 PM
Orlando had this line in 388 PAs in the 1st half

.245/.283/.329/.612

That's something that holds a team back, not lifts it up.

dougdirt
09-06-2011, 10:59 PM
Orlando had this line in 388 PAs in the 1st half

.245/.283/.329/.612


I just threw up a little bit.

cincrazy
09-06-2011, 11:36 PM
I just threw up a little bit.

Unfortunately, Paul Janish makes those numbers look Hall of Fameish.

dougdirt
09-07-2011, 12:01 AM
Unfortunately, Paul Janish makes those numbers look Hall of Fameish.

Were you just trying to rhyme Janish with Fameish? It almost worked.

Blitz Dorsey
09-07-2011, 04:09 AM
Seriously, Cabrera's 2010 season was like A-Rod in his prime (aka A-Rod on the juice) compared to Janish's 2011 season. OK, that's going a bit too far, but Janish might finish on the interstate this year. And he makes up for it by hardly ever walking and by being the worst "great" defensive player I've ever seen.

BuckeyeRedleg
09-07-2011, 08:09 AM
Seriously, Cabrera's 2010 season was like A-Rod in his prime (aka A-Rod on the juice) compared to Janish's 2011 season. OK, that's going a bit too far, but Janish might finish on the interstate this year. And he makes up for it by hardly ever walking and by being the worst "great" defensive player I've ever seen.

I'm sure Paul Janish is a great guy and has a good glove, but if he gets more than 50 PA's next year my head might explode.

TRF
09-07-2011, 09:18 AM
I was casually referring to Cabrera's veteraness (my word and its copyrighted)

I think everyone missed my point about that list though. Those weren't the top 37 year olds, they were the only 37 year olds. So out of 60+ guys to play 3B last year that was it for the 37 year olds.

The list is an outlier.

That Chipper had a great year, albeit a short one just shows how hard it is to play the game, and be healthy at that age. And Chipper has had plenty of injury issues in his career. Also, Rolen isn't nearly the hitter Chipper is or was. In the last 7 years, Rolen has hand an OPS below .800 4 times. He's sitting below .700 now. Since 2005 he's played in 130+ games twice.

What I am saying is, he's more likely to post a .720 OPS than .820 due to age and health. I'm saying 120 games might be wishful thinking and I'm saying if the Reds win next year it won't be because of Scott Rolen.

lollipopcurve
09-07-2011, 09:38 AM
The short-term was a big win for the Reds -- a division title. Coming in the wake of 15 years of losing, it's kind of weird that folks might minimize this.

Longer term -- the players given up will likely outperform Rolen. No surprise here -- the Reds traded young players for a vet. The short-term/long-term trade is a classic compromise GMs make in order to get deals done. Then again, EdE is now a 1B/DH, and Stewart's already been traded by the Jays. Neither guy is likely to be an impact player, but we'll see. If Rolen stays in the Reds' organization as a coach/manager/advisor, he'll continue to bring value and a continuity associated with winning to the organization.

The tale of the tape is not yet finished, but it's close, and it remains difficult for me to see how the trade has been anything but a net positive for the Reds.

westofyou
09-07-2011, 10:22 AM
The short-term was a big win for the Reds -- a division title. Coming in the wake of 15 years of losing, it's kind of weird that folks might minimize this.

Yep.

It was a cultural change from the Presidents office down to the clubhouse, it had an impact that can be quantified by some, and denied by others.

But it in its wake it created a wave of success, expectations, assumption... about winning, that is what I see. In many ways it's like Terry Pendleton's Braves run, it has more to do with the man than his numbers, but those ended up being an asset as well.

TRF
09-07-2011, 10:32 AM
EE as a Blue Jay .257 .317 .462 .780 44 HR's 917 AB's He is a 1B/DH, there is talk he may move to LF.

Zach Stewart 53 IP 4.56 ERA 1.38 WHIP and coming off the game of his career thus far.

Josh Roenicke horrible in TOR, currently doing well in COL albeit in only 11 IP.

EE can make the biggest impact if he can move to LF. EE since the ASB: .299 .389 .522 .911

There were plenty of posters that wanted to see EE in LF. He had some injury issues with his wrists that limited his production in TOR early on, and he scuffled a bit in the first half of this year. But he's going to end the year with 40+ doubles and nearly 20 HR's. He's got a cannon for an arm and he's an athletic player. Transitioning him to LF shouldn't have been a problem.

I hated to see Stewart traded. I get why he was included, but since I'd have not made the trade, He'd be competing for a rotation spot with the Reds. Or possibly the future closer.

This trade was short term thinking because though it addressed an immediate need, it addressed it for only one season. That Rolen is signed long term compounds the error. Here is the line Reds 3B have posted this season: .242 .297 .388 .684 That's pretty awful. Rolen had a very good year in 2010: 471 AB's .285 .358 .497 .854 20 HR's. EE in 2010: 332 AB's .244 .305 .482 .787 21 HR's. Not quite as good, especially when considering the dropoff defensively at 3B, but then consider this... What if 2011 saw EE in LF for the Reds and a platoon of Frazier and Francisco at 3B? Heisey is the 4th OF. Gomes is never signed.

What If? was one of my favorite comics as a kid :)

LF offense is improved, greatly. 3B? maybe a crapshoot, but likely better offensively. Stewart adds that much more needed depth to a rotation decimated by injuries. And his presence allows the Reds to say Chapman is starting the year in Louisville as a starter.

So maybe 2010 doesn't happen, but instead happens in 2011. And does so in such a way that sets the offense up for the next 5 years. Maybe having EE in LF allows the Reds to make a bigger push for Cliff Lee. Stewart, Wood, Alonso and Sappelt for Lee?

or maybe none of that happens.

But going forward, how much can anyone REASONABLY expect from Rolen, Stewart and Encarnacion?

kaldaniels
09-07-2011, 10:50 AM
1 game and the Zach Bandwagon rides again. I wish him the best and all, but he is sporting a 4.56 earnie. There was a guy last season who threw a non-perfect perfect game but was on the streets looking for a job this season. So while it was a tremendous start (Against a terrible Twins lineup) for Stewart, I'm gonna wait for prolonged success to sway my opinion on him. Good for him though, I would like to see him in the rotation full time next year.

RANDY IN INDY
09-07-2011, 11:12 AM
1 game and the Zach Bandwagon rides again. I wish him the best and all, but he is sporting a 4.56 earnie. There was a guy last season who threw a non-perfect perfect game but was on the streets looking for a job this season. So while it was a tremendous start (Against a terrible Twins lineup) for Stewart, I'm gonna wait for prolonged success to sway my opinion on him. Good for him though, I would like to see him in the rotation full time next year.

:beerme:

Patrick Bateman
09-07-2011, 05:52 PM
EE as a Blue Jay .257 .317 .462 .780 44 HR's 917 AB's He is a 1B/DH, there is talk he may move to LF.

Zach Stewart 53 IP 4.56 ERA 1.38 WHIP and coming off the game of his career thus far.

Josh Roenicke horrible in TOR, currently doing well in COL albeit in only 11 IP.

EE can make the biggest impact if he can move to LF. EE since the ASB: .299 .389 .522 .911

There were plenty of posters that wanted to see EE in LF. He had some injury issues with his wrists that limited his production in TOR early on, and he scuffled a bit in the first half of this year. But he's going to end the year with 40+ doubles and nearly 20 HR's. He's got a cannon for an arm and he's an athletic player. Transitioning him to LF shouldn't have been a problem.

I hated to see Stewart traded. I get why he was included, but since I'd have not made the trade, He'd be competing for a rotation spot with the Reds. Or possibly the future closer.

This trade was short term thinking because though it addressed an immediate need, it addressed it for only one season. That Rolen is signed long term compounds the error. Here is the line Reds 3B have posted this season: .242 .297 .388 .684 That's pretty awful. Rolen had a very good year in 2010: 471 AB's .285 .358 .497 .854 20 HR's. EE in 2010: 332 AB's .244 .305 .482 .787 21 HR's. Not quite as good, especially when considering the dropoff defensively at 3B, but then consider this... What if 2011 saw EE in LF for the Reds and a platoon of Frazier and Francisco at 3B? Heisey is the 4th OF. Gomes is never signed.

What If? was one of my favorite comics as a kid :)

LF offense is improved, greatly. 3B? maybe a crapshoot, but likely better offensively. Stewart adds that much more needed depth to a rotation decimated by injuries. And his presence allows the Reds to say Chapman is starting the year in Louisville as a starter.

So maybe 2010 doesn't happen, but instead happens in 2011. And does so in such a way that sets the offense up for the next 5 years. Maybe having EE in LF allows the Reds to make a bigger push for Cliff Lee. Stewart, Wood, Alonso and Sappelt for Lee?

or maybe none of that happens.

But going forward, how much can anyone REASONABLY expect from Rolen, Stewart and Encarnacion?

Encarnacion has already been a free agent and basically passed over by every team.

What he does is immaterial to valuing the trade. The Jays got EE for 1 and a half years at an undesirable rate and performed poorly. The years subsequent to the free agent seasons could not matter less.

dougdirt
09-07-2011, 06:00 PM
1 game and the Zach Bandwagon rides again. I wish him the best and all, but he is sporting a 4.56 earnie. There was a guy last season who threw a non-perfect perfect game but was on the streets looking for a job this season. So while it was a tremendous start (Against a terrible Twins lineup) for Stewart, I'm gonna wait for prolonged success to sway my opinion on him. Good for him though, I would like to see him in the rotation full time next year.

I am all with you in terms of the one game not changing anything. I was never a fan of the trade as a win for the Reds. Thought they overpaid then and still think they overpaid now.

kaldaniels
09-07-2011, 06:41 PM
I am all with you in terms of the one game not changing anything. I was never a fan of the trade as a win for the Reds. Thought they overpaid then and still think they overpaid now.

The remark that struck a nerve with me was one that said they would rather have Stewart than Leake, FWIW. Leake has 2 solid seasons under his belt and was a top 10 draft pick. Respectfully I don't see a strong argument for choosing Stewart.

klw
11-28-2012, 11:55 AM
Pirates pick up Stewart for PTBNL
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/pirates-acquire-zach-stewart.html


The Pirates acquired right-hander Zach Stewart from the Red Sox for a player to be named later, the teams announced. The Red Sox had designated Stewart for assignment on November 20th.

Stewart, 26, has pitched at the MLB level in both of the past two seasons. This is already the fourth time he has been traded since the Reds selected him in the third round of the 2008 draft. The Blue Jays acquired him in the deal that sent Scott Rolen to Cincinnati; Toronto traded him to the White Sox in the three-team trade that sent Colby Rasmus to the Blue Jays; the Red Sox acquired him in the deal that sent Kevin Youkilis to Chicago. In 103 innings at the MLB level, Stewart has a 6.82 ERA with 5.6 K/9 and 1.9 BB/9.

RedEye
11-28-2012, 11:56 AM
Link to MLBTR (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/pirates-acquire-zach-stewart.html). My goodness, he sure is a well-traveled young man!

EDIT: Oops -- sorry mods, feel free to merge. I didn't realize that the "Zack Stewart's night" thread already had this link. My bad.

westofyou
11-28-2012, 11:58 AM
Well, I guess we'll get to see his ascent first hand

savafan
11-28-2012, 12:10 PM
Pirates pick up Stewart for PTBNL
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/pirates-acquire-zach-stewart.html

He's already approaching Octavio Dotel/Mike Morgan territory

klw
11-28-2012, 12:31 PM
He's already approaching Octavio Dotel/Mike Morgan territory
The next Bruce Chen? or Gio Gonzalez?

mdccclxix
11-28-2012, 01:06 PM
It's amazing what a few good months in the minors can do for a career.

Crumbley
11-28-2012, 01:43 PM
There will be no second half fade this year. I, for one, welcome our new NL Central overlords.

savafan
11-28-2012, 01:51 PM
The next Bruce Chen? or Gio Gonzalez?

A record number of teams played for. I think Dotel and Morgan currently hold that record.

klw
11-28-2012, 02:11 PM
A record number of teams played for. I think Dotel and Morgan currently hold that record.

I think you are correct. Chen is up there as well (10 teams). I think he has played for every team in the NL East and 2 in NL Central, AL East (plus in the minors for Toronto) and AL Central. Gio struck me as someone who has long been a top prospect but was moved 4 times, IIRC. Sort of the Brett Wallace of pitchers. Though after this year, I don't think Gio is going anywhere anytime soon.


Edit: Per wikipedia Dotel has the record of 13 teams and Morgan is second with 12.

westofyou
11-28-2012, 02:15 PM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/leaders_most_franchises.shtml



Player Years Franchises Leagues
Octavio Dotel 1999-2012 13 2
Mike Morgan 1978-2002 12 2
Matt Stairs 1992-2011 12 2
Ron Villone 1995-2009 12 2
Gus Weyhing 1887-1901 11 4
Joe Gerhardt 1873-1891 11 3
Deacon McGuire 1884-1912 11 3
Paul Bako 1998-2009 11 2
Miguel Batista 1992-2012 11 2
Royce Clayton 1991-2007 11 2
Kenny Lofton 1991-2007 11 2
Terry Mulholland 1986-2006 11 2
Dennys Reyes 1997-2011 11 2
Julian Tavarez 1993-2009 11 2
Rick White 1994-2007 11 2
Todd Zeile 1989-2004 11 2
George Bradley 1875-1888 10 4
Orator Shafer 1874-1890 10 4
Dan Brouthers 1879-1904 10 3
Jack Doyle 1889-1905 10 3
Paul Hines 1872-1891 10 3
Russell Branyan 1998-2011 10 2
Ken Brett 1967-1981 10 2
Bruce Chen 1998-2012 10 2
Tommy Davis 1959-1976 10 2
Alan Embree 1992-2009 10 2
Davy Force 1871-1886 10 2
Jose Guillen 1997-2010 10 2
Roberto Hernandez 1991-2007 10 2
Kevin Jarvis 1994-2006 10 2
Dan Miceli 1993-2006 10 2
Bob Miller 1957-1974 10 2
Pop Smith 1880-1891 10 2
Russ Springer 1992-2010 10 2
Brett Tomko 1997-2011 10 2

M2
11-28-2012, 04:45 PM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/leaders_most_franchises.shtml



Player Years Franchises Leagues
Octavio Dotel 1999-2012 13 2
Mike Morgan 1978-2002 12 2
Matt Stairs 1992-2011 12 2
Ron Villone 1995-2009 12 2
Gus Weyhing 1887-1901 11 4
Joe Gerhardt 1873-1891 11 3
Deacon McGuire 1884-1912 11 3
Paul Bako 1998-2009 11 2
Miguel Batista 1992-2012 11 2
Royce Clayton 1991-2007 11 2
Kenny Lofton 1991-2007 11 2
Terry Mulholland 1986-2006 11 2
Dennys Reyes 1997-2011 11 2
Julian Tavarez 1993-2009 11 2
Rick White 1994-2007 11 2
Todd Zeile 1989-2004 11 2
George Bradley 1875-1888 10 4
Orator Shafer 1874-1890 10 4
Dan Brouthers 1879-1904 10 3
Jack Doyle 1889-1905 10 3
Paul Hines 1872-1891 10 3
Russell Branyan 1998-2011 10 2
Ken Brett 1967-1981 10 2
Bruce Chen 1998-2012 10 2
Tommy Davis 1959-1976 10 2
Alan Embree 1992-2009 10 2
Davy Force 1871-1886 10 2
Jose Guillen 1997-2010 10 2
Roberto Hernandez 1991-2007 10 2
Kevin Jarvis 1994-2006 10 2
Dan Miceli 1993-2006 10 2
Bob Miller 1957-1974 10 2
Pop Smith 1880-1891 10 2
Russ Springer 1992-2010 10 2
Brett Tomko 1997-2011 10 2



So Mike Morgan, Ron Villone, Paul Bako, Royce Clayton, Dennys Reyes, Russ Branyan, Bruce Chen, Jose Guillen, Kevin Jarvis, Russ Springer and Brett Tomko all spent time with the Reds. Interestingly, almost all of them played for the Reds during the JimBo regime. It only felt frenetic because it was.

UKFlounder
11-28-2012, 04:47 PM
Rick White also did, didn't he? I think he had a pretty disastrous stint with the team a few years ago


So Mike Morgan, Ron Villone, Paul Bako, Royce Clayton, Dennys Reyes, Russ Branyan, Bruce Chen, Jose Guillen, Kevin Jarvis, Russ Springer and Brett Tomko all spent time with the Reds. Interestingly, almost all of them played for the Reds during the JimBo regime. It only felt frenetic because it was.

savafan
11-28-2012, 05:45 PM
Rick White also did, didn't he? I think he had a pretty disastrous stint with the team a few years ago

Wasn't he the "replacement player" who stuck around in the bigs?

westofyou
11-28-2012, 05:55 PM
Wasn't he the "replacement player" who stuck around in the bigs?

That was Rick Reed

savafan
11-28-2012, 06:44 PM
That was Rick Reed

I was half right. :D

Vottomatic
11-28-2012, 06:54 PM
The Pirates got themselves a future Cy Young winner. Congrats.

Vottomatic
11-28-2012, 06:56 PM
It's gonna suck facing a future Cy Young winner on the Pirates next season.

edabbs44
11-28-2012, 07:05 PM
It's gonna suck facing a future Cy Young winner on the Pirates next season.

IIRC, the prediction was that he'd win the CY on Toronto, so the joke has termed out. Unless he laps the field and returns to Toronto. Which, based on his pace, is not totally out of the realm.

Vottomatic
11-28-2012, 07:10 PM
I think the real question here is "who will Stewart be pitching for next season"?

dougdirt
11-28-2012, 08:20 PM
The Pirates got themselves a future Cy Young winner. Congrats.

They don't have the pitching coach that the Blue Jays did.

Wonderful Monds
11-28-2012, 09:19 PM
They don't have the pitching coach that the Blue Jays did.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/498/1300044776986.jpg

M2
11-28-2012, 09:48 PM
That was Rick Reed

Then he and Gabe White made a baby and they named it Rick White.

Forgot about Rick White. He's one of the many pitchers the Reds had in the aughts that I've tried to blot from my memory.

westofyou
11-28-2012, 10:13 PM
Then he and Gabe White made a baby and they named it Rick White.

Forgot about Rick White. He's one of the many pitchers the Reds had in the aughts that I've tried to blot from my memory.

Every Reds fan should learn about those dark times



CINCINNATI REDS
SEASON
MODERN (1900-)
WORST
ERA YEAR DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE HR BR/9 IP
1 Reds 2005 -.95 5.18 4.23 -56 14.00
2 Reds 2004 -.90 5.21 4.31 -58 13.85
3 Reds 1901 -.86 4.17 3.32 -24 13.52
4 Reds 2003 -.80 5.09 4.29 -40 13.79
5 Reds 1957 -.75 4.62 3.88 -33 12.68
6 Reds 1968 -.58 3.56 2.98 -24 12.18
7 Reds 1984 -.57 4.16 3.59 -21 12.56
8 Reds 1969 -.53 4.13 3.60 -25 13.17
9 Reds 2007 -.52 4.95 4.44 -30 13.41
10 Reds 1948 -.51 4.47 3.95 -1 13.40

edabbs44
11-29-2012, 06:59 AM
Then he and Gabe White made a baby and they named it Rick White.

Forgot about Rick White. He's one of the many pitchers the Reds had in the aughts that I've tried to blot from my memory.

I thought they named the baby Mike Burns?

cincrazy
11-29-2012, 08:16 AM
Then he and Gabe White made a baby and they named it Rick White.

Forgot about Rick White. He's one of the many pitchers the Reds had in the aughts that I've tried to blot from my memory.

I try to forget about Rick White too. Unfortunately, that's not possible because he comes into the restaurant where I work to eat about once a week.

jojo
11-29-2012, 02:59 PM
Every Reds fan should learn about those dark times



CINCINNATI REDS
SEASON
MODERN (1900-)
WORST
ERA YEAR DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE HR BR/9 IP
1 Reds 2005 -.95 5.18 4.23 -56 14.00
2 Reds 2004 -.90 5.21 4.31 -58 13.85
3 Reds 1901 -.86 4.17 3.32 -24 13.52
4 Reds 2003 -.80 5.09 4.29 -40 13.79
5 Reds 1957 -.75 4.62 3.88 -33 12.68
6 Reds 1968 -.58 3.56 2.98 -24 12.18
7 Reds 1984 -.57 4.16 3.59 -21 12.56
8 Reds 1969 -.53 4.13 3.60 -25 13.17
9 Reds 2007 -.52 4.95 4.44 -30 13.41
10 Reds 1948 -.51 4.47 3.95 -1 13.40



Blustery HOF voters want to wipe out a whole era.....as a happy consequence so too would the lost decade be forgotten.

klw
12-06-2012, 05:40 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/24044/rule-5-sox-lose-fields-gain-local-prospect

The Red Sox also announced Thursday it had completed the deal that sent right-hander Zach Stewart to the Pittsburgh Pirates. The player to be named later in the deal is righthander Kyle Kaminska, who has been assigned to Triple-A Pawtucket.

The 24-year-old combined to go 9-4 with a 4.19 ERA, 66 strikeouts and 11 walks in 81 2/3 innings between the Pirates and Florida Marlins systems last season. He also made six starts in the Arizona Fall League, finishing with an impressive 3-1 record and 1.61 ERA.