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The DARK
09-14-2011, 03:20 AM
He leads the NL in OPS once again. He handily leads the NL in walks and OBP, while still slugging enough to surpass the lauded Prince Fielder. In fact, Votto's season surpasses Fielder's in every conceivable manner except in home runs and RBIs. He also leads all NL first basemen in UZR and is tied for the lead in steals. And if you're looking for durability, he has the most plate appearances under his belt of any NL first baseman. If the Reds had won the division, he'd likely be the MVP once again.

Has there ever been a more dominant Reds batter since the days of the BRM? Barry Larkin will have sustained it for longer assuming Votto bolts after 2013, but Votto is doing it in one of the most dominant eras for pitching in recent memory, and has the chance to win many more after having just turned 28.

nux fan
09-14-2011, 03:21 AM
he is amazing and he also does it with no help in the line up

Vottomatic
09-14-2011, 08:44 AM
Yeah, it's not like Votto is batting in the Phillies, Brewers, Yankees, or Red Sox lineups. He has no protection.

BluegrassRedleg
09-14-2011, 02:38 PM
he is amazing and he also does it with no help in the line up

I've had to keep reminding myself of that. I held him to a higher standard this season, and he didn't quite reach it, but when you factor the lack of support in the 4/5 holes and his high BB total, the numbers make more sense.

mroby85
09-16-2011, 12:04 AM
I think we should trade him! lol jk

will5979
09-16-2011, 11:06 AM
The Reds MUST find a way to keep Votto and Phillips, if they don't I'm done with baseball, period.

brm7675
09-16-2011, 01:41 PM
The Reds MUST find a way to keep Votto and Phillips, if they don't I'm done with baseball, period.

Well then I guess you are done with baseball....:thumbup:

brm7675
09-16-2011, 01:41 PM
I think we should trade him! lol jk

I would trade Votto tomorrow for the right offer. Say the M's would offer King Felix for Votto straight up...good bye Mr. Votto...

mroby85
09-16-2011, 01:52 PM
I would trade Votto tomorrow for the right offer. Say the M's would offer King Felix for Votto straight up...good bye Mr. Votto...

Glad you aren't in charge. I'm with you Will, and I think a lot of people feel the same way. I don't feel as much that way with Phillips even though I think they should keep him, but if Votto leaves i'm just going to start following a legit team that seriously tries to get better. If you finally get a player like Votto and can't keep him, whats the point? No salary caps has baseball so screwed up that its pointless to root for a team like the Reds, it would be like being a Miami of Ohio fan in college football or something, expecting them to have a shot at the national championship.

brm7675
09-16-2011, 01:58 PM
Glad you aren't in charge. I'm with you Will, and I think a lot of people feel the same way. I don't feel as much that way with Phillips even though I think they should keep him, but if Votto leaves i'm just going to start following a legit team that seriously tries to get better. If you finally get a player like Votto and can't keep him, whats the point? No salary caps has baseball so screwed up that its pointless to root for a team like the Reds, it would be like being a Miami of Ohio fan in college football or something, expecting them to have a shot at the national championship.

So you don't make that trade? OMG why not? You bring an ACE onto your staff to pair with Cueto and Leake, you put Yonder at first and you win the division. Otherwise you see Votto walk at the end of his deal with the best you get might be some draft picks? Yea that is smart baseball.

will5979
09-16-2011, 02:05 PM
So you don't make that trade? OMG why not? You bring an ACE onto your staff to pair with Cueto and Leake, you put Yonder at first and you win the division. Otherwise you see Votto walk at the end of his deal with the best you get might be some draft picks? Yea that is smart baseball.

Please do everyone on the board a favor and take your ADHD medicine daily.

brm7675
09-16-2011, 02:35 PM
Please do everyone on the board a favor and take your ADHD medicine daily.

Huh? Please explain to me why you would not make that deal? Votto is gone at the end of his present deal, anyone who thinks he will sign a LTD is kidding themselves, there are to many teams out there that can offer significantly more then the Reds will be able to and Votto, like most MLB players has no "ties" to cincy. So, with that being known, if you can add an ACE, you wouldn't? Please someone else needs to be taking their meds...:)

mroby85
09-16-2011, 02:36 PM
So you don't make that trade? OMG why not? You bring an ACE onto your staff to pair with Cueto and Leake, you put Yonder at first and you win the division. Otherwise you see Votto walk at the end of his deal with the best you get might be some draft picks? Yea that is smart baseball.

For one thing, starting pitchers are generally much more year to year than hitters are. Also, a guy like Votto anchors your batting order every day, not once every 5th day. Another thing is some people are already attached to Votto, and actually become a real fan of a player when they come through, at least thats the way I feel. If Yonder is an equal replacement for Votto, then they should just trade him for Felix Hernandez and just keep Votto. It baffles me how everyone thinks Votto should be traded because he has a very high value, there is a reason he has a very high value!! He's also valuable to the Reds! I'll bet people would be shocked at how pathetic this offense would be if Votto was out of it, he's the best hitter in baseball (imo) in a very terrible lineup, imagine if he actually had some protection, or how bad the players around him would be if he wasn't on base at an ungodly obp clip.

will5979
09-16-2011, 02:42 PM
For one thing, starting pitchers are generally much more year to year than hitters are. Also, a guy like Votto anchors your batting order every day, not once every 5th day. Another thing is some people are already attached to Votto, and actually become a real fan of a player when they come through, at least thats the way I feel. If Yonder is an equal replacement for Votto, then they should just trade him for Felix Hernandez and just keep Votto. It baffles me how everyone thinks Votto should be traded because he has a very high value, there is a reason he has a very high value!! He's also valuable to the Reds! I'll bet people would be shocked at how pathetic this offense would be if Votto was out of it, he's the best hitter in baseball (imo) in a very terrible lineup, imagine if he actually had some protection, or how bad the players around him would be if he wasn't on base at an ungodly obp clip.

^^^This times 100 billion ^^^

brm7675
09-16-2011, 02:54 PM
For one thing, starting pitchers are generally much more year to year than hitters are. Also, a guy like Votto anchors your batting order every day, not once every 5th day. Another thing is some people are already attached to Votto, and actually become a real fan of a player when they come through, at least thats the way I feel. If Yonder is an equal replacement for Votto, then they should just trade him for Felix Hernandez and just keep Votto. It baffles me how everyone thinks Votto should be traded because he has a very high value, there is a reason he has a very high value!! He's also valuable to the Reds! I'll bet people would be shocked at how pathetic this offense would be if Votto was out of it, he's the best hitter in baseball (imo) in a very terrible lineup, imagine if he actually had some protection, or how bad the players around him would be if he wasn't on base at an ungodly obp clip.

Problem is he won't be here once his contract expires, so you are okay with losing him and at best only getting draft picks in return?

mroby85
09-16-2011, 02:59 PM
Problem is he won't be here once his contract expires, so you are okay with losing him and at best only getting draft picks in return?

I'm okay with it because if they don't re-sign him, i'm just going with him anyway lol. I'd prefer to see my favorite player ever in Cincinnati for 2 more years. I'm not going to continue to follow a team that follows the Indiansn trend of losing Thome, Manny, CC, Cliff Lee, etc. Eventually it's not the players fault, this team has done nothing in my lifetime to deserve undying loyalty, and in fact they've done things in a way to assume theyre doing the wrong thing, rather than the right thing.

drowg14
09-16-2011, 03:00 PM
Problem is he won't be here once his contract expires, so you are okay with losing him and at best only getting draft picks in return?

This shouldn't be the problem. The problem should be who can we put around Votto, both in the lineup and in the rotation, to get to the WS during his tenure. If the FO is not willing to build around him, then what good is trading him for more parts gong to do. Those parts won't be built around either.

mroby85
09-16-2011, 03:00 PM
This shouldn't be the problem. The problem should be who can we put around Votto, both in the lineup and in the rotation, to get to the WS during his tenure. If the FO is not willing to build around him, then what good is trading him for more parts gong to do. Those parts won't be built around either.

Exactly, its a never ending cycle of losing.

brm7675
09-16-2011, 03:15 PM
This shouldn't be the problem. The problem should be who can we put around Votto, both in the lineup and in the rotation, to get to the WS during his tenure. If the FO is not willing to build around him, then what good is trading him for more parts gong to do. Those parts won't be built around either.

Simple you trade him for parts that will help the team. You put Yonder at first and add another bat for LF and a quality SP and you have a team that contend for the WS.

I mean what dominate hitter did the Giants have last year when they won the WS?

texasdave
09-16-2011, 03:21 PM
Problem is he won't be here once his contract expires, so you are okay with losing him and at best only getting draft picks in return?

And you think King Felix is sticking around Cincinnati? He has a partial no-trade contract, he can name ten teams. I'd say it is fairly likely that Cincinnati is one of those ten. Maybe not. And why would Seattle trade three years of Hernandez for two years of Votto?

brm7675
09-16-2011, 03:23 PM
And you think King Felix is sticking around Cincinnati? He has a partial no-trade contract, he can name ten teams. I'd say it is fairly likely that Cincinnati is one of those ten. Maybe not. And why would Seattle trade three years of Hernandez for two years of Votto?

Not saying it would go through, but I would listen to offers for Votto, because in the end he is not gonig to be a Red long term and I would rather get a few tested ML players for him over say draft picks....wouldn't you?

drowg14
09-16-2011, 03:24 PM
Simple you trade him for parts that will help the team. You put Yonder at first and add another bat for LF and a quality SP and you have a team that contend for the WS.

I mean what dominate hitter did the Giants have last year when they won the WS?

That's the thing. They would still need to build around Felix/Yonder, when they haven't even tried to build around Votto. What makes you think they all of a sudden will change their tune once Votto is gone.

texasdave
09-16-2011, 03:28 PM
Yes, life as a small-market team stinks. Which is why it was so frustrating to watch Jocketty waste a year.

brm7675
09-16-2011, 03:38 PM
That's the thing. They would still need to build around Felix/Yonder, when they haven't even tried to build around Votto. What makes you think they all of a sudden will change their tune once Votto is gone.

the talent is there now, this team won the division last year, and will only get better. I don't see a ton of changes that need to happen.

brm7675
09-16-2011, 03:38 PM
Yes, life as a small-market team stinks. Which is why it was so frustrating to watch Jocketty waste a year.

How do we know he wasted a year. Exaclty how did he waste it?

texasdave
09-16-2011, 03:54 PM
There is an old saying that goes something like, "If you have to ask you'll never know." I think it fits here.

brm7675
09-16-2011, 04:23 PM
There is an old saying that goes something like, "If you have to ask you'll never know." I think it fits here.

Problem is we don't know what Walt had to work with, we don't have all the facts, so you are only making a guess at best.