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Far East
09-14-2011, 01:34 PM
Considering how Brantley, Welsh, and personnel on other teams describe Alonzo's plate discipline and power, perhaps he should be hitting behind and "protecting" Votto.

Of course, that would mean penciling him in somewhere on defense every day, probably LF.

Right now, pitchers are pitching around Joey unafraid that Bruce will beat them.

In order to preserve Jay's self-confidence and not to "demote" him in the lineup, bat him 2nd, thus giving him more AB than the SS or OFer who has been hitting 2nd.

Phillips
Bruce
Votto
Alonzo
Dez
Francisco
CF or SS
SS or CF
P

Perhaps lineup construction and "protection" make little difference, but at least with Phillips being on base as much as he has opens up the 3-4 hole for Bruce and/or the other LHH who follow him.

And although Phillips, Bruce, and Votto are not the speedster that Stubbs is, they are 3 decent base-runners to be ahead of Alonzo.

Caveat Emperor
09-14-2011, 02:29 PM
Bruce started out hot, much as Alonso has done.

Pitchers went to school on him, watched video, and made adjustments to how they pitch him -- with Bruce unable to make the adjustment himself, he's become a much less dangerous hitter than he was in the minors (where he was +.900 OPS guy).

Pitchers will go to school on Alonso as well. I think it's incredibly premature to suggest that he could provide better lineup protection than Bruce until we see what Alonso looks like once the league develops a gameplan for him.

RANDY IN INDY
09-14-2011, 02:33 PM
Bruce started out hot, much as Alonso has done.

Pitchers went to school on him, watched video, and made adjustments to how they pitch him -- with Bruce unable to make the adjustment himself, he's become a much less dangerous hitter than he was in the minors (where he was +.900 OPS guy).

Pitchers will go to school on Alonso as well. I think it's incredibly premature to suggest that he could provide better lineup protection than Bruce until we see what Alonso looks like once the league develops a gameplan for him.

I agree with this to a degree. The league will test you with adjustments. The one thing that I see in Alonso is that he seems to have a real good idea of the strike zone, much better than Bruce when he first came up.

osuceltic
09-14-2011, 02:49 PM
I agree with this to a degree. The league will test you with adjustments. The one thing that I see in Alonso is that he seems to have a real good idea of the strike zone, much better than Bruce when he first came up.

And good pitch recognition, which I think some confuse with plate discipline. Alonso doesn't get fooled much. Bruce, I think, knows the strike zone well and rarely swings at bad pitches when he has identified the correct pitch. But I think he has trouble distinguishing between fastballs, sliders, curves, etc. He gets fooled quite a bit.

Mario-Rijo
09-14-2011, 03:25 PM
And good pitch recognition, which I think some confuse with plate discipline. Alonso doesn't get fooled much. Bruce, I think, knows the strike zone well and rarely swings at bad pitches when he has identified the correct pitch. But I think he has trouble distinguishing between fastballs, sliders, curves, etc. He gets fooled quite a bit.

Even worse I'm not even sure Jay tries to distinguish them. If he does he stinks at it, a bad sign because that's a tool you either have or don't, to a certain extent. But it's a bit premature to say he can't improve at it some so I won't.

That said I'm not convinced Alonso is the answer either. I think they do need a solid middle of the order professional hitter like a healthy Rolen only with pop.

osuceltic
09-15-2011, 11:02 AM
Even worse I'm not even sure Jay tries to distinguish them. If he does he stinks at it, a bad sign because that's a tool you either have or don't, to a certain extent. But it's a bit premature to say he can't improve at it some so I won't.

That said I'm not convinced Alonso is the answer either. I think they do need a solid middle of the order professional hitter like a healthy Rolen only with pop.

Completely agree that it's a little early to count on Alonso. We've seen him at his absolute best.

Plus the left-handed thing matters. I know some downplay it, but having three lefties in a row in the middle of the lineup isn't ideal.

lollipopcurve
09-15-2011, 11:17 AM
I think they do need a solid middle of the order professional hitter like a healthy Rolen only with pop.

A RH bat like Kemp or Hanley Ramirez could make the lineup ferocious. And the Reds do have the talent to make those teams whopper offers that would be tough to turn down.

RedLegsToday
09-15-2011, 11:57 AM
A RH bat like Kemp or Hanley Ramirez could make the lineup ferocious. And the Reds do have the talent to make those teams whopper offers that would be tough to turn down.

these players make more than the league minimum. The Reds can't (or, at least, pretend they can't) afford them.

_Sir_Charles_
09-15-2011, 06:15 PM
Protect Votto with Alonzo? I think somebody was reading RZ this week. :O)

Today...

Brandon Phillips 4
Drew Stubbs 8
Joey Votto 3
Yonder Alonso 7
Chris Heisey 9
Todd Frazier 5
Ryan Hanigan 2
Paul Janish 6
Homer Bailey 1

bucksfan2
09-16-2011, 10:51 AM
I never thought I would say this, but at this point I would much rather see Alonso hitting 4 than Bruce. I think Bruce has more power than Alonso but I think Alonso has a better eye, can spay the ball all over the field, and is more refined at the plate.