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Benihana
09-14-2011, 09:54 PM
www.mlbtraderumors.com

Not that there was much doubt...

savafan
09-14-2011, 10:08 PM
The dreaded vote of confidence. I know how that usually ends up...

Guacarock
09-14-2011, 11:18 PM
Interesting day. Within the time frame of a few hours, we learn:

*Jocketty will be back.
*Baker will be back.
*Alonso is our likely opening day starter in LF.

If Cordero gets re-signed before the season ends, then what, pray tell, will be left for us to speculate about this winter? An Arredondo for Shields deal? Or better yet, a two-for-one swap -- Orioles send us J. J. Hardy and Adam Jones for Paul Janish? :laugh:

We can only hope the weeks to come are as interesting as today.

Gallen5862
09-15-2011, 12:25 AM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Reds Owner Says Jocketty, Baker Will Return
By Mike Axisa [September 14 at 6:52pm CST]
The season has not gone according to plan for the Reds, who are 72-76 and 14.5 games back of the Brewers in the NL Central. GM Walt Jocketty's contract is up after the season, and there's been some speculation that he could be a fit for the Cubs. Reds owner Bob Castellini shot that down though, telling John Fay of The Cincinnati Enquirer that both Jocketty and manager Dusty Baker will be back.

Ron Madden
09-15-2011, 04:30 AM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Reds Owner Says Jocketty, Baker Will Return
By Mike Axisa [September 14 at 6:52pm CST]
The season has not gone according to plan for the Reds, who are 72-76 and 14.5 games back of the Brewers in the NL Central. GM Walt Jocketty's contract is up after the season, and there's been some speculation that he could be a fit for the Cubs. Reds owner Bob Castellini shot that down though, telling John Fay of The Cincinnati Enquirer that both Jocketty and manager Dusty Baker will be back.

I can live with this.

There is no point in firing Dusty just to replace him with someone else with the same mindset.

Usually the only guys that ever get hired to Manage a MLB team are guys who believe in going by "The Book" because it let's their decisions go unquestioned.

KronoRed
09-15-2011, 06:22 AM
Stay the course.

lollipopcurve
09-15-2011, 10:00 AM
All in all, good news. Will be interesting to see how Dusty oversees the transition to some younger bats.

bucksfan2
09-15-2011, 10:18 AM
All in all, good news. Will be interesting to see how Dusty oversees the transition to some younger bats.

You mean like Bruce, Votto, and Stubbs?

Unassisted
09-15-2011, 10:22 AM
Stay the course.
Or is is "Stay the curse?"

Why Bob would want to continue to have a GM and a manager who aren't on the same page is a mystery. Is it time to start wishing for a new owner?

Always Red
09-15-2011, 10:30 AM
Why Bob would want to continue to have a GM and a manager who aren't on the same page is a mystery. Is it time to start wishing for a new owner?

No thanks, I like this one better than any we've had in recent memory.

I also value continuity, not for it's own sake, but because that's how winning organizations operate. If Dusty and Walt had some differences, and I'm sure there is always disagreement within any front office, then it sounds like they have been worked out.

Unassisted
09-15-2011, 10:53 AM
No thanks, I like this one better than any we've had in recent memory.
I do too, but just because the last two grade out at D and F, while this one's a B headed toward a C, doesn't mean the Reds can't do better.

Always Red
09-15-2011, 11:45 AM
I do too, but just because the last two grade out at D and F, while this one's a B headed toward a C, doesn't mean the Reds can't do better.

How does a team "do better" with an owner? You don't get to pick one, or even hire one like any other member of the organization.

You get what you get.

I think this city is lucky to have Castellini owning the Reds. Is he perfect? Heck no. But he has a burning desire to win, he's from Cincinnati and loves the city and the Reds, and is very conversant on and respectful of the history of his team.

Unassisted
09-15-2011, 12:48 PM
How does a team "do better" with an owner? You don't get to pick one, or even hire one like any other member of the organization.

You get what you get. That's why I said "wish for." I realize there's no vote.


I think this city is lucky to have Castellini owning the Reds. Is he perfect? Heck no. But he has a burning desire to win,

And therein lies the rub. IMO, retaining the dysfunctional duo of Jocketty and Baker does not represent a "burning desire to win" anymore. It represents a position of hunkering down and hoping for the best.


he's from Cincinnati and loves the city and the Reds, and is very conversant on and respectful of the history of his team.

I'm not from Cincinnati and I have no loyalty to anything else in Cincinnati, so being local is not important to me. I want an owner who'll put a winning team in the front office and on the field for my favorite MLB team. I'm no longer confident that Castellini is committed to doing that. I do believe he's committed to not losing money. If being local means being cheap, then I hope he sells the club to Mark Cuban. :p

Always Red
09-15-2011, 12:51 PM
I'm not from Cincinnati and I have no loyalty to anything else in Cincinnati, so being local is not important to me. I want an owner who'll put a winning team in the front office and on the field for my favorite MLB team. I'm no longer confident that Castellini is committed to doing that. I do believe he's committed to not losing money. If being local means being cheap, then I hope he sells the club to Mark Cuban. :p

haha- Cuban owning the team will certainly solve that pesky $ issue; then the Reds can stock up on SP's like the Phillies do. :beerme:

traderumor
09-15-2011, 12:53 PM
Jocketty and Baker not being on the same page is speculation and should not be presented as fact.

redsmetz
09-15-2011, 02:58 PM
Or is is "Stay the curse?"

Why Bob would want to continue to have a GM and a manager who aren't on the same page is a mystery. Is it time to start wishing for a new owner?

This is what the pundits suggest and certainly it seems to be taken as gospel on RZ, but I don't know that we can actually say they aren't on the same page. As someone else noted, there will be disagreements, but I've never had the sense that there are significant loggerheads between Baker & Jocketty. I know folks point to various statements here and there that might suggest such is the case, but I can't say with any certainty that they're ultimately not on the same page.

I will say that some of the problem has been Jocketty's pace this season of moves (or non-moves). I thought last season we could be moving some of our spare parts and either be adding some new talent in the minors or adding pieces for the big club. That said, if Jocketty's signed for next year, he needs to get his tail in gear. We've got a plethora of players jammed together that it's time to make decisions on or turn them into tangible pieces for somewhere in the system.

Kc61
09-15-2011, 03:15 PM
These "moves" (or non-moves) are fine.

So long as there is an organizational imperative to make hay in Joey Votto's last two years (likely) with the club.

The Reds have one spectacular hitter in Votto. The window is short. The need is to "go for it" as much as possible right now.

I can't blame Dusty. He didn't cause the team to stand pat.

I'd blame Walt, but I have to believe he is operating under fairly strict budgetary constraints and has decided to hold on to his players rather than trade for second-tier guys. Presumably, if he could take on more salary, he would be more active.

So it comes down to ownership and the basic plan of attack. Hopefully, ownership will loosen the purse strings a little and instruct Walt to acquire a very good pitcher, or hitter, or both.

With the proper direction, Walt and Dusty are ok for next year.

remdog
09-15-2011, 05:11 PM
From the same article, Dusty talking about Jonny Gomes: "When Jonny got here, he was predominantly a DH. Jonny lost weight. Jonny got more mobile and he became a pretty good outfielder."

Johnnie B. Baker is offically delusional.

Rem

TRF
09-15-2011, 05:25 PM
From the same article, Dusty talking about Jonny Gomes: "When Jonny got here, he was predominantly a DH. Jonny lost weight. Jonny got more mobile and he became a pretty good outfielder."

Johnnie B. Baker is offically delusional.

Rem

What is he supposed to say?

"Gomes was a fat toad when he got here, and when he left... pretty much still a fat toad. Yonder has no shot of slimming down or becoming as light on his feet as that fat tub og goo Jonny Gomes."

Bumstead
09-15-2011, 05:45 PM
What is he supposed to say?

"Gomes was a fat toad when he got here, and when he left... pretty much still a fat toad. Yonder has no shot of slimming down or becoming as light on his feet as that fat tub og goo Jonny Gomes."

Maybe not, but he can sure hit a hell of a lot better than that toad, Jonny Gomes. And it's still too early to say that Alonso can't ever be the bad fielder Gomes was/is...

Bum

WMR
09-15-2011, 07:53 PM
Castellini has a "burning desire" to win? :yawn:

mth123
09-15-2011, 08:38 PM
These "moves" (or non-moves) are fine.

So long as there is an organizational imperative to make hay in Joey Votto's last two years (likely) with the club.

The Reds have one spectacular hitter in Votto. The window is short. The need is to "go for it" as much as possible right now.

I can't blame Dusty. He didn't cause the team to stand pat.

I'd blame Walt, but I have to believe he is operating under fairly strict budgetary constraints and has decided to hold on to his players rather than trade for second-tier guys. Presumably, if he could take on more salary, he would be more active.

So it comes down to ownership and the basic plan of attack. Hopefully, ownership will loosen the purse strings a little and instruct Walt to acquire a very good pitcher, or hitter, or both.

With the proper direction, Walt and Dusty are ok for next year.

Agree with everything here. I'm still not convinced that "Walt isn't going anywhere" (else) means the same thing as Walt will be back.

WMR
09-15-2011, 08:41 PM
Get the payroll to 90 million (hardly an earth-shattering number in today's game) and I might be willing to buy into Cast's burning desire to win...

and please save me the old John Allen refrain, "We can't spend more money until attendance improves."

Better product = More fannies in seats... don't see it work much in reverse.

The Reds had an excellent season to build off of last year but have done NOTHING but stagnate. Everyone a year older, valued pieces a year closer to free agency... meh.

Unassisted
09-15-2011, 09:11 PM
Jocketty and Baker not being on the same page is speculation and should not be presented as fact.It's not the kind of thing that would ever be confirmed to be true while they're both employed by the Reds. Since it can't be official, I don't know how it could ever be more authoritative than seeing it as the subject of an article in the media. :confused:

The biggest reasons I believe it to be true are that It hasn't been denied convincingly (if at all AFAIK) by either of them and it accounts for the occasional disconnect between the things each of them tells media folks. The folks who started the rumor spend more time talking to employees with knowledge of how things work at GABP than any of us do. That's why I accept the notion until convinced otherwise.

757690
09-15-2011, 09:22 PM
From the same article, Dusty talking about Jonny Gomes: "When Jonny got here, he was predominantly a DH. Jonny lost weight. Jonny got more mobile and he became a pretty good outfielder."

Johnnie B. Baker is offically delusional.

Rem

Gomes has been much better defensively this year, and according to the new stats, has been a bit above average LF defensively tnis year.

Always Red
09-15-2011, 09:27 PM
Gomes has been much better defensively this year, and according to the new stats, has been a bit above average LF defensively tnis year.

i've never been a fan of Gomes defense, but thought he did a very nice job in LF this year. He definitely improved, was not as good as Heisey out there, but I thought he played LF better than Lewis did this year.

It wasn't his defense that got him moved on to the Nats.

Matt700wlw
09-15-2011, 09:34 PM
Get the payroll to 90 million (hardly an earth-shattering number in today's game) and I might be willing to buy into Cast's burning desire to win...

and please save me the old John Allen refrain, "We can't spend more money until attendance improves."

Better product = More fannies in seats... don't see it work much in reverse.

The Reds had an excellent season to build off of last year but have done NOTHING but stagnate. Everyone a year older, valued pieces a year closer to free agency... meh.

I think attendance was up this year, but I can't confim that right now. It's an educated (I hope) guess.

westofyou
09-15-2011, 10:35 PM
That's why I said "wish for." I realize there's no vote.

And therein lies the rub. IMO, retaining the dysfunctional duo of Jocketty and Baker does not represent a "burning desire to win" anymore. It represents a position of hunkering down and hoping for the best

I'm not from Cincinnati and I have no loyalty to anything else in Cincinnati, so being local is not important to me. I want an owner who'll put a winning team in the front office and on the field for my favorite MLB team. I'm no longer confident that Castellini is committed to doing that. I do believe he's committed to not losing money. If being local means being cheap, then I hope he sells the club to Mark Cuban. :p
Reds have had exactly ONE out of town owner in their history, he was an unmitigated disaster.

It's a hard sell in the community I can sense that still looms large.

Ron Madden
09-16-2011, 05:43 AM
Who knows if Walt and Dusty are on the same page or not in regards to improving the club now and/or into the future?

One things for sure, they wont publicly point fingers at at each other while they still work for the same team.

Some say Walt had to trade Gomes and Lewis away so Dusty would start younger players in LF.

Then again wasn't it Walt who signed Gomes and Lewis?

traderumor
09-16-2011, 02:03 PM
It's not the kind of thing that would ever be confirmed to be true while they're both employed by the Reds. Since it can't be official, I don't know how it could ever be more authoritative than seeing it as the subject of an article in the media. :confused:

The biggest reasons I believe it to be true are that It hasn't been denied convincingly (if at all AFAIK) by either of them and it accounts for the occasional disconnect between the things each of them tells media folks. The folks who started the rumor spend more time talking to employees with knowledge of how things work at GABP than any of us do. That's why I accept the notion until convinced otherwise.Yet, during the division winning season I quickly find an article by Hal McCoy saying how great they are working together, last June it was dated. Season below expectations finger pointing is what I read into this whole "rift," and its mostly an internet forum/blog creation.

Orenda
09-17-2011, 04:54 PM
I'm wondering what the careers of Jockety and Baker would look like without steroids and ped's? Are they a case example of the positive externalities of steroids?

I have more faith in Jocketty, but he has had a history of success with older players producing into the twilight of their careers. Baker had Bonds and Sosa, among others, with larger payrolls.

westofyou
09-17-2011, 06:17 PM
I'm wondering what the careers of Jockety and Baker would look like without steroids and ped's? Are they a case example of the positive externalities of steroids?

I have more faith in Jocketty, but he has had a history of success with older players producing into the twilight of their careers. Baker had Bonds and Sosa, among others, with larger payrolls.
Sosa was on his downturn by the time Baker got there though, Also the Giant payroll was not too large in the ninties.

One thing he never had in SF that he had in Chicago was pitching, always had hitting though.

BrooklynRedz
09-23-2011, 05:02 PM
Jocketty extended through 2014