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View Full Version : Can Francisco win the 3B job in 2012?



Chip R
09-14-2011, 11:56 PM
Probably not but if Francisco can play as well as he has for the rest of the year and has a great spring training, he may have a shot at unseating Rolen as the regular third baseman. Of course I am very skeptical that this would happen but he's certainly making a case for himself.

Sea Ray
09-14-2011, 11:59 PM
I doubt he'll win the job outright but he'll surely get more playing time over there. If we have two legit 3rd basemen then it's an embarrassment of riches and a very nice problem to have

WVRedsFan
09-15-2011, 12:23 AM
My guess is that Scott will start about 120 games with Francisco getting most of the rest of the starts. Same with Yonder in left. He'll get 80 starts. I don't expect the Reds will be adding a bat. Especially if they keep Codero.

Kc61
09-15-2011, 12:27 AM
Issue is this -- can Reds keep Cairo and Francisco on big club?

Most teams have one bench infielder who plays shortstop. Neither JF nor MC does.

If Rolen is healthy, with JF and MC there are three third sackers. Too many guys at one position.

Cairo is signed for next year and is considered valuable.

Caveat Emperor
09-15-2011, 12:42 AM
I think it's far more likely that Francisco ends up in LF and something happens with Votto or Alonso (my guess being Votto).

Still, put me in the camp that doesn't think Francisco can maintain a high enough contact rate against major-league pitching to offset his lack of walks. Francisco's minor league numbers tell us that if he isn't hitting .280 - .290 he's an out-machine.

westofyou
09-15-2011, 12:45 AM
He's a mistake hitter who's got some pop and is currently having a Willie Green September.

Guacarock
09-15-2011, 12:52 AM
Issue is this -- can Reds keep Cairo and Francico on big club?

Difficult, but it can be done if you have a utility guy on the bench like Hairston who can play a little SS and 2B as well as serve as a fifth outfielder. We have Frazier who might be able to fill that all-around sub role, but we shall see if he gets enough reps at SS to handle that kind of assignment.

Otherwise, you're right. The Reds would be hard-pressed to keep both Francisco and Cairo. But I certainly wouldn't worry about Cairo blocking Francisco. If the kid keeps playing like he has been lately, and the Reds don't deal him off this winter, he'll be on the roster come next summer. The closer that Rolen gets to retirement, the more we'll need to groom his successor, not his understudy.

Also, I doubt we'll have any trouble finding a new home for Cairo. Like Betemit, he's up in age, but still keeps ticking. Plenty of teams would want a guy like him on their bench. Could get us a decent prospect or perhaps a bullpen arm.

wlf WV
09-15-2011, 01:03 AM
I like how it has played out. I hope he's done enough to catch someone's eye.

That press from his HR helped.

schroomytunes
09-15-2011, 01:22 AM
I think Frazier is the eventual 3bagger for us and he also can play all infield positions in a pinch. I think Francisco's value right now will be as an add-in as a piece to land a #2-3 starter in the offseason!

Guacarock
09-15-2011, 03:18 AM
He's a mistake hitter who's got some pop and is currently having a Willie Green September.

Willie Greene had some pop, and also some really spiffy baseball cards, but I don't recall him ever pulling off a play like this at 3B.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=19226485

Guacarock
09-15-2011, 03:48 AM
But before Francisco can win the 3B job in Cincy, he'll need to straighten out his cap.

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/mlb/players/full/29601.png&w=350&h=254

Ron Madden
09-15-2011, 04:42 AM
But before Francisco can win the 3B job in Cincy, he'll need to straighten out his cap.

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/mlb/players/full/29601.png&w=350&h=254

Yep, an Immature Lazy Thug with no respect for the game if I've ever seen one. ;)

Griffey012
09-15-2011, 07:51 AM
Yep, an Immature Lazy Thug with no respect for the game if I've ever seen one. ;)

Cmon this thread was about Juan, not Cueto and Volquez :lol: (sarcasm)

lollipopcurve
09-15-2011, 08:26 AM
Yes, he can win the job. Baker is a huge fan of Francisco, and Baker makes up the lineup card. The question is Rolen -- how healthy will he be? My guess -- they split time until Rolen wears down or Francisco tanks.

I like Francisco, always have. I don't think what we're seeing now is flukey. Keep him on a fitness program and give him protection in the lineup. Guy has a chance to do major damage in the NL Central. If it were up to me, I'd make him the starter and spot Rolen. Not sure that's going to be possible, though, for Baker, and that's completely understandable, given Rolen's status in the clubhouse.

Nasty_Boy
09-15-2011, 08:50 AM
I don't mind Francisco playing 3B if his D is average and he's hitting 6th-7th in the order... I just don't want Dusty to put him in the middle of the order because he's a "run producer" and then cite his winter ball stats to back it up. Francisco has some pop, but I don't think he'll ever hit for enough avg. or walk enough to be a plus in the middle of the order. I like the thought of keeping both him and Frazier for pop off the bench and it gives them some flexibility with the positions the can play. I just don't want the Reds putting to much faith in Scotty being healthy next year and I don't want them continuing to believe that he is still a clean up hitter. All in all, I like the talent the young guys have showed and the potential upside they bring.

Kc61
09-15-2011, 11:31 AM
I disagree with those who prefer Frazier or who compare JF with Willie Green.

First, let me admit that I have been a big JF supporter for years. I have been effusive in my praise of this guy's apparent ability. I have been shouted down from every corner of RedsZone but still am a big believer in Juan.

I've now watched Juan F play quite a bit. I am dazzled by his ability.

I am not saying he will necessarily be a star player. There are warts and issues. He is still raw at age 24. The jury is certainly out.

But Juan F's ability is off the charts. This guy has monstrous power. He has a rifle arm. His third base play has improved by light years. As in the minors, where he got lots of RBIs, I think he has the knack for knocking in runs.

And as a left handed hitter, he can be a platoon guy (at least initially), helping against RHP until hopefully he learns the game more and becomes more well rounded. All WMP comparisons fall away when you consider, among other things, that JF is a lefty bat who kills RHP - which the Reds usually face.

I see the issues, but to me this is a major prospect. If I were the Reds I would find a place for him on the 25 man roster for the next couple of years. As an alternate to Rolen initially. I would give JF opportunities to play (not constantly, but a fair amount) and hopefully he will grow.

I've read the comparisons with other players with similar numbers, the discussion of lack of walks, etc. I respect those view, I know many players like Francisco don't make it.

But this guy has, as Dusty would say, big time ability.

To me, if the Reds want to save some money, keep Alonso and Francisco on this club next year - I think this would help the offense enormously. Spend, instead, for some good veteran pitching and see what happens. I'll go with that.

mdccclxix
09-15-2011, 12:02 PM
I disagree with those who prefer Frazier or who compare JF with Willie Green.

First, let me admit that I have been a big JF supporter for years. I have been effusive in my praise of this guy's apparent ability. I have been shouted down from every corner of RedsZone but still am a big believer in Juan.

I've now watched Juan F play quite a bit. I am dazzled by his ability.

I am not saying he will necessarily be a star player. There are warts and issues. He is still raw at age 24. The jury is certainly out.

But Juan F's ability is off the charts. This guy has monstrous power. He has a rifle arm. His third base play has improved by light years. As in the minors, where he got lots of RBIs, I think he has the knack for knocking in runs.

And as a left handed hitter, he can be a platoon guy (at least initially), help against RHP until hopefully he learns the game more and becomes more well rounded. All WMP comparisons fall away when you consider, among other things, that JF is a lefty bat who kills RHP - which the Reds usually face.

I see the issues, but to me this is a major prospect. If I were the Reds I would find a place for him on the 25 man roster for the next couple of years. As an alternate to Rolen initially. I would give JF opportunities to play (not constantly, but a fair amount) and hopefully he will grow.

I've read the comparisons with other players with similar numbers, the discussion of lack of walks, etc. I respect those view, I know many players like Francisco don't make it.

But this guy has, as Dusty would say, big time ability.

To me, if the Reds want to save some money, keep Alonso and Francisco on this club next year - I think this would help the offense enormously. Spend, instead, for some good veteran pitching and see what happens. I'll go with that.

I can agree with all of this. I really like how his arm can make up for his lack of range side to side. He had a nice double play last night too. I think Juan can have a career with the occasional monster type year where he's locked in constantly and pitchers can't throw a strike and hope it doesn't get pounded. That prospect alone makes him worth a try next year. He's a high risk high reward guy, I guess, and with Frazier, Cairo and of course Rolen around the risk is almost nil. I'm waiting for a prolonged stretch where he's a non factor at the plate due to mlb pitching, but the Cubs are not the best team to judge by. I think next year Dusty will find good spots for him to hit against some of the lower level talent in the division and around the league, mixing in some starts against great pitching occasionally. I'm hopeful for Juan's 2012.

_Sir_Charles_
09-15-2011, 12:05 PM
I think he can. My biggest question about Juan has been his defense. I simply haven't seen enough of him there at third to make a decision. Last night though...I don't think Rolen makes that play in the 9th. One of the best plays at third I've seen in quite some time. He gets my vote for at the bare minimum a platoon with Rolen. I'm leaning towards him getting the bulk of the time there.

_Sir_Charles_
09-15-2011, 12:07 PM
But before Francisco can win the 3B job in Cincy, he'll need to straighten out his cap.

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/mlb/players/full/29601.png&w=350&h=254 (http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/mlb/players/full/29601.png&w=350&h=254)

That drives me absolutely NUTS. Pull up your pants and straighten that cap!!! :O)

Reds1
09-15-2011, 03:24 PM
My guess is that Scott will start about 120 games with Francisco getting most of the rest of the starts. Same with Yonder in left. He'll get 80 starts. I don't expect the Reds will be adding a bat. Especially if they keep Codero.

I agree here. I have to admit his defense has surprised me and even though I think he'll have some issues at consistancy at the plate he's an exciting back up to have. Similar to the Yonder, Heisey situation in left. I see some platooning if the reds focus on pitching like I think they should.

mbgrayson
09-15-2011, 03:53 PM
My guess is that Scott will start about 120 games with Francisco getting most of the rest of the starts. Same with Yonder in left. He'll get 80 starts. I don't expect the Reds will be adding a bat. Especially if they keep Codero.

The problem is that Rolen has been able to play 120 or more games only once in the last 4 years (last year: 133 games), and only twice in the last seven years (2010 and 2006). Scott will be 37 years old next season, and I just don't think it's likely we will get 120 games from him.

I would prefer a straight platoon. I'm impressed with Francisco so far.

mdccclxix
09-15-2011, 04:15 PM
The problem is that Rolen has been able to play 120 or more games only once in the last 4 years (last year: 133 games), and only twice in the last seven years (2010 and 2006). Scott will be 37 years old next season, and I just don't think it's likely we will get 120 games from him.

I would prefer a straight platoon. I'm impressed with Francisco so far.

Yep, 100 games would be epic from Rolen, I'd be happy with 70-80 as long as he's available into October.

Ron Madden
09-16-2011, 05:49 AM
Yep, 100 games would be epic from Rolen, I'd be happy with 70-80 as long as he's not hitting 4TH in the batting order.

Fixed.

membengal
09-16-2011, 06:45 AM
Kc61 has been on fire with his takes all year going back to the off-season. The above was yet another example. Nice write-up.

Kc61
09-16-2011, 09:57 AM
Kc61 has been on fire with his takes all year going back to the off-season. The above was yet another example. Nice write-up.

Thanks. I'm just one of many with great incites on this site.

Let's go Reds!

BuckeyeRedleg
09-16-2011, 10:35 AM
Willie Greene had some pop, and also some really spiffy baseball cards, but I don't recall him ever pulling off a play like this at 3B.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=19226485


Wow!

I missed the game. Awesome play!

Sign me up.