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19braves77
01-05-2013, 01:01 AM
Notre Dame's signature win doesnt look that great now does it ?

Sumlin with this win probably gets 4 years without the hotseat ever being mention. He will get atleast two more years of Manziel and then he got a QB recruit this year that should fit in real nice after Manziel. Guy can coach and is a good recruiter.

Saban likes challenges and I imagine he watched this game with a gleam in his eye and will talk to Stoops in the coming weeks. They both did that with Tim Tebow.

dabvu2498
01-05-2013, 01:41 AM
Actually Manziel will be draft eligible after next year. He's a redshirt freshman.

19braves77
01-05-2013, 04:18 AM
Crazy thing about Texas AM is that they may have three players going within the first ten picks this years draft:

LT Luke Joeckel (junior), Texas A&M
DE Damontre Moore (junior), Texas A&M
T Jake Matthews (junior), Texas A&M

Sea Ray
01-05-2013, 11:53 AM
Facts are the NCAA has not found any wrong doing by Cal or Hurt. UK fans are just upset because SEC superiority argument carries a lot less weight after Louisville has dominated the second highest ranked school in the conference.



After watching Georgia and Texas A&M, I'd say at best Florida is the #4 team in the SEC. This just goes to show how tough the SEC is. My guess is any of the SEC's top three teams, Alabama, Georgia, Texas A&M, would win any other conference in the country were they placed there in 2012. That's impressive

Sea Ray
01-05-2013, 11:58 AM
I'm not sure there is a team in the country that could beat A&M right now.

I agree. They looked like world beaters last night. Another year where I feel cheated that we don't have a playoff. Not only won't the best team be crowned NC on Monday night, we won't see Oregon play against a real defense. I was looking forward to an Alabama/Notre Dame-Oregon matchup until the Ducks lost to Stanford in OT

joshnky
01-05-2013, 03:45 PM
I agree. They looked like world beaters last night. Another year where I feel cheated that we don't have a playoff. Not only won't the best team be crowned NC on Monday night, we won't see Oregon play against a real defense. I was looking forward to an Alabama/Notre Dame-Oregon matchup until the Ducks lost to Stanford in OT

You'd have to expand to 16 teams to include A&M in a playoff and I doubt that will ever happen. This year also shows the potential limitation of the four team playoff. The four teams could have been Notre dame, Alabama, ksu, and Florida. Two of which were exposed as frauds in their bowl games.

Sea Ray
01-05-2013, 05:33 PM
You'd have to expand to 16 teams to include A&M in a playoff and I doubt that will ever happen. This year also shows the potential limitation of the four team playoff. The four teams could have been Notre dame, Alabama, ksu, and Florida. Two of which were exposed as frauds in their bowl games.

No question a four team playoff will still generate controversy but I disagree with your four teams. I think Oregon would have been one of them

joshnky
01-05-2013, 06:10 PM
No question a four team playoff will still generate controversy but I disagree with your four teams. I think Oregon would have been one of them

Oregon didn't win their conference so kstate would have been the likely pick.

Sea Ray
01-05-2013, 07:11 PM
Oregon didn't win their conference so kstate would have been the likely pick.

They haven't been clear about how they're going to pick teams but I suspect conference championships won't be the determining factor

KYRedsFan
01-05-2013, 08:55 PM
Louisville wouldn't be at the level they're at without the shady recruiting of Clint Hurtt (which includes Teddy Bridgewater). Without Bridgewater, UofL was likely a sub-.500 football team this year, and he was obviously the difference in the game last night. They better hope Hurtt ends up being innocent of all the things thrown at him in that Yahoo article last year.

HAHAHAHA. Shady recruiting of Teddy? Fiction can be fun.

WMR
01-06-2013, 03:28 PM
Is Muschamp on the hot seat? UF should be very good next season, does he need to win the East?

It's startling how disinterested and unmotivated UF appeared for their bowl game...

Boston Red
01-06-2013, 05:37 PM
It's startling how disinterested and unmotivated UF appeared for their bowl game...

A for effort/persistence.

joshnky
01-06-2013, 05:46 PM
A for effort/persistence.

The only other option is to admit that Louisville was the better team. It must be a shock that the team UK fans have lost any hope of ever beating UofL beat convincingly.

19braves77
01-07-2013, 07:19 AM
Hoping tonights game is a classic.

jojo
01-07-2013, 05:45 PM
Auburn reeled in a 4 star JUCO defensive tackle as Ben Bradley commits this afternoon and will enroll in classes this week so that he can participate in spring practices and workouts.

Bradley had offers from Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, Arkansas, Missouri, Texas A&M, Miami, Nebraska, Oklahoma and West Virginia. It apparently came down to KY and AU which wasn't a very fair fight because members of the AU coaching staff, though newly hired, had already built substantial relationships with Bradley (and several of his JUCO teammates) through previous recruiting efforts.

KY fans have to be dissapointed because Bradley is a guy who can step in immediately and be a force but they out recruited some top programs to come in second. That probably speaks well of how the Stoops crew might recruit going forward.

This comes on the heels of Auburn winning the recruiting battle for Lavon Hooks a 5 star JUCO DT who ultimately committed to his second choice when he failed to clear Auburn's admissions due to an English course. Alot of people were wondering if Bradley would face similar problems. Auburn had been tough to out recruit during Chizik's tenure. I think their new staff is actually a significant upgrade from a recruiting standpoint. Malzahn has been a perfect hire and it's tough to see a coach who would've been a better fit-he gets the Auburn culture and he gets that there is no learning curve or honeymoon.

WMR
01-07-2013, 10:56 PM
Roll Tide. One of the few teams whose defense I enjoy watching more than their offense.

Notre Dame is being completely manhandled.

jojo
01-07-2013, 11:10 PM
Roll Tide. One of the few teams whose defense I enjoy watching more than their offense.

Notre Dame is being completely manhandled.

Hopefully Bama fans can avoid embarrassing both themselves and the university that they never actually attended this year.

Boston Red
01-07-2013, 11:11 PM
It's unfortunate Notre Dame is so disinterested.

19braves77
01-07-2013, 11:22 PM
Dear Irish,

The SEC isn't like the BIG 10 or a service academy.

Reds4Life
01-07-2013, 11:31 PM
ND got exposed big time, they look flat out inept. This game is a complete annihilation by Alabama.

Slyder
01-08-2013, 01:07 AM
ND got exposed big time, they look flat out inept. This game is a complete annihilation by Alabama.

Second straight year the system failed the eye test IMO. Last year should have been LSU vs Ok State. This year Oregon vs Alabama would have been the best game.

dougdirt
01-08-2013, 02:00 AM
Second straight year the system failed the eye test IMO. Last year should have been LSU vs Ok State. This year Oregon vs Alabama would have been the best game.

You mean LSU who got dominated last year? The same LSU who despite winning at Alabama, to my eyes, looked like the clear lesser team on the field that day?

Slyder
01-08-2013, 02:08 AM
You mean LSU who got dominated last year? The same LSU who despite winning at Alabama, to my eyes, looked like the clear lesser team on the field that day?

You mean the team that WON AT TUSCALOOSA, played the toughest schedule in football last year? Yep still believe that you rewarded a team for not playing a 13th game. I dont care how the bowl game looked. Bama lost to LSU and should have been behind every 1 loss team because of it. And yes if WVU had been in that position my position would have been the same. WVU and Bama both had their chance during the regular season against LSU, it should have been someone else. Plus it would have meant an opportunity to see whether Alabama or LSU could have done against something different in Oregon and OK State respectively.

dabvu2498
01-08-2013, 04:00 AM
You mean the team that WON AT TUSCALOOSA, played the toughest schedule in football last year? Yep still believe that you rewarded a team for not playing a 13th game. I dont care how the bowl game looked. Bama lost to LSU and should have been behind every 1 loss team because of it. And yes if WVU had been in that position my position would have been the same. WVU and Bama both had their chance during the regular season against LSU, it should have been someone else. Plus it would have meant an opportunity to see whether Alabama or LSU could have done against something different in Oregon and OK State respectively.

Problem is, the "most deserving" assertion doesn't hold up this year. Those were fairly clearly the most deserving 2 teams based on the regular season this year.

GAC
01-08-2013, 05:43 AM
Talk about shredding an opponent and spitting them out! Geez!

Did anyone honestly think ND was going to have a chance in this game? I didn't. They should have lost to Pitt, and barely escaped Purdue.

Not only did Alabama have experience on their side ... this was their 3rd NC game in the last 4 years... but I believed 'Bama's O-line and running game would utterly take any fight out of the Irish.

I laughed at one post-game commentator who said the only time McCarron got touched in the entire game was in the 4th quarter by HIS OWN PLAYER when McCarron barked at Jones after a delay penalty and Jones shoved him away. LOL

Just because someone goes undefeated, IMO, doesn't mean they deserve to be in the NC. The system is still flawed badly IMO.

All I know is I'll be collecting on a few bets at work today. I even gave a couple guys 14 pts. LOL

19braves77
01-08-2013, 06:51 AM
I kinda think Brian Kelly overachived this year and that might come back to bite him in the butt if expecations are too high next year.

Saban could leave for Dallas today and I honestly wouldnt be upset. Wish we could buy out the Virginia Tech game next this year with the promise we will visit them in 2016 at their place and schedule either Oregon, Ohio State, or Boise State in Atlanta to open the season. Its time to give their fan base some reality.

RedsBaron
01-08-2013, 06:56 AM
My favorite line from the game was someone tweeted that A.J. McCarron's girlfriend, Katherine Webb, was seeking a restraining order against Brent Musberger. :laugh: Man, did Musberger go on about her (she is attractive).

cumberlandreds
01-08-2013, 08:56 AM
This game just further proved its the SEC and everyone else. Seven straight BCS titles for the league. Also Bama is as dominant now as they were in the Bear Bryant days. I thought it would be a close game with Bama winning. But they showed they were light years ahead of ND. I'm just glad Ohio State was on probation or we would have had either them or ND as national champions today. Certainly wouldn't have been a true representation of the best team in the nation.

Sea Ray
01-08-2013, 10:05 AM
This game just further proved its the SEC and everyone else. Seven straight BCS titles for the league. Also Bama is as dominant now as they were in the Bear Bryant days. I thought it would be a close game with Bama winning. But they showed they were light years ahead of ND. I'm just glad Ohio State was on probation or we would have had either them or ND as national champions today. Certainly wouldn't have been a true representation of the best team in the nation.

It certainly did and OK, this game didn't match up the two best teams but it wasn't Oregon who should have been there. Texas A&M looked to be the team with the best shot at defeating Bama. But the folks are weary of SEC dominance and that wouldn't have gone over well. I've been aware of the strength of SEC football for a long time and even I'm amazed at the dominance of 7 straight titles; almost all of which were blowouts

bucksfan2
01-08-2013, 12:13 PM
This game just further proved its the SEC and everyone else. Seven straight BCS titles for the league. Also Bama is as dominant now as they were in the Bear Bryant days. I thought it would be a close game with Bama winning. But they showed they were light years ahead of ND. I'm just glad Ohio State was on probation or we would have had either them or ND as national champions today. Certainly wouldn't have been a true representation of the best team in the nation.

Texas A&M was the only team to beat Alabama. They are an SEC team in name only, a Big 12 team that beat Alabama.

The SEC has been good, but Alabama has been the dominant one. With the exception of Alabama, I think the other top tier teams in college can play with the likes of LSU, Florida, and Georgia.

I never thought ND had a chance in beating Alabama, and as the bowl season wore done it became apparent that the teams that ND beat showed that they weren't up to snuff in their bowl games. With the exception of Stanford (who ND got by because of an awful call) all the teams that ND beat were overrated. Its kinda ironic because the team that I thought could have played with Alabama is Stanford.

hebroncougar
01-08-2013, 12:21 PM
This game just further proved its the SEC and everyone else. Seven straight BCS titles for the league. Also Bama is as dominant now as they were in the Bear Bryant days. I thought it would be a close game with Bama winning. But they showed they were light years ahead of ND. I'm just glad Ohio State was on probation or we would have had either them or ND as national champions today. Certainly wouldn't have been a true representation of the best team in the nation.

I'd say the top 4-5 in the SEC, and everyone else. There are some bad football teams in the SEC as well.

Sea Ray
01-08-2013, 01:18 PM
Texas A&M was the only team to beat Alabama. They are an SEC team in name only, a Big 12 team that beat Alabama.

The SEC has been good, but Alabama has been the dominant one. With the exception of Alabama, I think the other top tier teams in college can play with the likes of LSU, Florida, and Georgia.

I never thought ND had a chance in beating Alabama, and as the bowl season wore done it became apparent that the teams that ND beat showed that they weren't up to snuff in their bowl games. With the exception of Stanford (who ND got by because of an awful call) all the teams that ND beat were overrated. Its kinda ironic because the team that I thought could have played with Alabama is Stanford.

When can the SEC claim the Aggies?

Sea Ray
01-08-2013, 01:21 PM
I'd say the top 4-5 in the SEC, and everyone else. There are some bad football teams in the SEC as well.

Depending on your definition, I suppose every conference has bad teams but from top to bottom the SEC leaves all the other conferences in the dust. It's really incredible the run they're on

cumberlandreds
01-08-2013, 02:14 PM
I'd say the top 4-5 in the SEC, and everyone else. There are some bad football teams in the SEC as well.

Bad teams in every conference. I know one well, Kentucky. They must not be dragging down the SEC much though. They still keep winning championships year after year after year.

bucksfan2
01-08-2013, 02:39 PM
When can the SEC claim the Aggies?

I don't know, after a couple of recruiting years?

I know as a B1G fan I won't be claiming Maryland or Rutgers any time soon!

IMO it takes a little time for conference affiliation to take hold. IMO Texas A&M is a Big 12 team transition into a SEC team.

Sea Ray
01-08-2013, 03:59 PM
I don't know, after a couple of recruiting years?

I know as a B1G fan I won't be claiming Maryland or Rutgers any time soon!

IMO it takes a little time for conference affiliation to take hold. IMO Texas A&M is a Big 12 team transition into a SEC team.

I'd argue that A&M has been taking advantage of its move to the SEC for several years now

New York Red
01-08-2013, 05:57 PM
I'd say the top 4-5 in the SEC, and everyone else. There are some bad football teams in the SEC as well.
According to Vegas, six SEC teams would have been favored over ND last night. That doesn't include Vandy, who I think would give them a run also. So basically, according to the experts without bias, ND would have been a middle-of-the-pack team in the SEC. That's what they looked like too. It wasn't just about Saban's preparation; ND was overmatched at almost every position on the field.

New York Red
01-08-2013, 05:59 PM
IMO Texas A&M is a Big 12 team transition into a SEC team.
OK. :laugh:

But in reality, they played an SEC schedule and the other SEC teams have to play them. That makes them 100% an SEC school now. This might be the silliest realignment argument I've seen yet.

jojo
01-08-2013, 09:38 PM
After taking an official visit to Knoxville last weekend, 3-star OL Cody Clay picks Div II Azusa Pacific over Tennessee.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/jan/08/cody-clay-chooses-division-ii-school-over-tennesse/

Sea Ray
01-10-2013, 11:22 AM
After taking an official visit to Knoxville last weekend, 3-star OL Cody Clay picks Div II Azusa Pacific over Tennessee.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/jan/08/cody-clay-chooses-division-ii-school-over-tennesse/

Aside from his religious priorities, I wonder if he was worried about being good enough to get playing time at UT? The Vols are returning most of their O-line and they have four recruits so far on the line as of now

Chip R
01-31-2013, 11:26 AM
Vandy coach apologizes for "Nicky Satan." :laugh:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/coach-apologizes-calling-saban-nicky-230411111--ncaaf.html

dabvu2498
01-31-2013, 02:42 PM
Vandy coach apologizes for "Nicky Satan." :laugh:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/coach-apologizes-calling-saban-nicky-230411111--ncaaf.html

He really is awesome. Franklin, that is. Not Nicky.

jojo
02-10-2013, 01:50 PM
By my count Bama has 97 players on the roster..... looks like there is going to be a spate of 12 medical emergencies in Tuscaloosa very shortly... oh the humanity!

19braves77
02-12-2013, 04:26 PM
The UA playing careers of Eddie Williams, D.J. Pettway, and Tyler Hayes are over, and for Brent Calloway it will probably take a camel-through-the-eye-of-a-needle scenario for him to return. Wasted scholarships.

jojo
02-12-2013, 09:29 PM
The UA playing careers of Eddie Williams, D.J. Pettway, and Tyler Hayes are over, and for Brent Calloway it will probably take a camel-through-the-eye-of-a-needle scenario for him to return. Wasted scholarships.

Nick only needs 8 mysterious injuries now.

VottoFan54
02-12-2013, 09:40 PM
Nick only needs 8 mysterious injuries now.

Are you sure all 97 of those were on football scholarships?

jojo
02-12-2013, 10:12 PM
Are you sure all 97 of those were on football scholarships?

Ya unless I'm missing something.

RiverRat13
02-13-2013, 09:24 AM
Are you sure all 97 of those were on football scholarships?

I'm pretty sure if you are on an athletic scholarship and play football, it has to count towards the football program's 85. The NCAA made that rule years ago to stop Bear Bryant and others from giving out tennis and golf scholarships in order to get around scholarship limits.

jojo
02-15-2013, 09:52 AM
For your viewing pleasure-apparently Rueben's late night habits are catching up to him.

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/p/39913461/Rueben-Foster-----student-of-the-week.aspx

jojo
02-16-2013, 03:07 PM
Ohio State fans pulled over in Tennessee marijauna sting.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2013/02/15/ohio-state-fan-pulled-over-sticker-confused-for-marijuana/1923475/

Slyder
02-16-2013, 04:17 PM
For your viewing pleasure-apparently Rueben's late night habits are catching up to him.

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/p/39913461/Rueben-Foster-----student-of-the-week.aspx

Wow those are some funny ones.

jojo
02-18-2013, 03:41 PM
Guess the NCAA just let Julie Roe Lach know when it was over....

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--ncaa-firing-vp-of-enforcement-171556026.html

jojo
02-18-2013, 03:42 PM
NM...... (the infamous RZ double post syndrome strikes again)

jojo
02-20-2013, 09:16 AM
A breakdown of Bama's numbers "problem"....

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/21733077/


Yet even after a concerted crackdown on "oversigning" by the SEC over the past three years, no coach in any league overshot the mark this year with such gusto.

jojo
03-20-2013, 06:47 PM
Mal Moore is stepping down as AD at Alabama because of his recent heart issues....

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/03/mal_moore_steps_down_as_alabam.html

He truly is one of college athletics' good guys.

VottoFan54
04-03-2013, 11:48 PM
@bmarcello: Chatted w/ Selena Roberts, author of Auburn allegations story. She says she's working on a "part 2" focusing on AU boosters.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/22001249/former-auburn-players-allege-grade-changes-cash-payments

Looks like Auburn could be in some trouble.

jojo
04-04-2013, 08:02 AM
@bmarcello: Chatted w/ Selena Roberts, author of Auburn allegations story. She says she's working on a "part 2" focusing on AU boosters.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/22001249/former-auburn-players-allege-grade-changes-cash-payments

Looks like Auburn could be in some trouble.

This is just part 1100 of Selena Roberts' pathological vendetta against the auburn athletic department. It's kind of like Michelle Bachman writing a speech about the extravagant spending associated with the President's family vacation/pets.

I think some time ago, Auburn must've kicked her puppy or something. But ya, McNeil is an innocent hero about to spend 20 years in jail on principle and Auburn is evil and somehow involved in framing him to kep him quiet.

http://www.al.com/auburnfootball/index.ssf/2013/04/qa_reporter_selena_roberts_def.html

http://www.al.com/auburnfootball/index.ssf/2013/04/auburn_committed_ncaa_violatio.html

Cedric
04-04-2013, 08:14 AM
This is just part 1100 of Selena Roberts' pathological vendetta against the auburn athletic department. It's kind of like Michelle Bachman writing a speech about the extravagant spending associated with the President's family vacation/pets.

I think some time ago, Auburn must've kicked her puppy or something. But ya, McNeil is an innocent hero about to spend 20 years in jail on principle and Auburn is evil and somehow involved in framing him to kep him quiet.

http://www.al.com/auburnfootball/index.ssf/2013/04/qa_reporter_selena_roberts_def.html

http://www.al.com/auburnfootball/index.ssf/2013/04/auburn_committed_ncaa_violatio.html

Yeah Auburn has such a great track record in their integrity and honesty. I'm inclined to let this play out...

jojo
04-04-2013, 08:33 AM
Yeah Auburn has such a great track record in their integrity and honesty. I'm inclined to let this play out...

Auburn has a better track record of integrity and honesty than most Div 1 schools including some really successful ones in the Big 10.

Selena Roberts has zero credibility on this issue and frankly, it already has played out.

Todd Gack
04-04-2013, 09:53 AM
This is just part 1100 of Selena Roberts' pathological vendetta against the auburn athletic department. It's kind of like Michelle Bachman writing a speech about the extravagant spending associated with the President's family vacation/pets.

I think some time ago, Auburn must've kicked her puppy or something. But ya, McNeil is an innocent hero about to spend 20 years in jail on principle and Auburn is evil and somehow involved in framing him to kep him quiet.

http://www.al.com/auburnfootball/index.ssf/2013/04/qa_reporter_selena_roberts_def.html

http://www.al.com/auburnfootball/index.ssf/2013/04/auburn_committed_ncaa_violatio.html

Was Cam Newton paid to go to Auburn?

jojo
04-04-2013, 09:57 AM
Was Cam Newton paid to go to Auburn?

No and there is zero evidence that he was. This has been settled. The NCAA's stance on this issue is that it couldn't in good conscience keep entertaining this notion given the lack of evidence supporting it.

Cam is in fact paying Auburn right now though.

Hoosier Red
04-04-2013, 09:59 AM
Auburn has a better track record of integrity and honesty than most Div 1 schools including some really successful ones in the Big 10.

Selena Roberts has zero credibility on this issue and frankly, it already has played out.

In general I tend to not believe fans when they accuse writers of a vendetta against a school. Whether it's Curry Kirkpatrick at IU (Wayback machine) Pete Thamel or Pat Forde at UK, or Selena Roberts at Auburn. There's generally very little reason for a writer to have an ax to grind against a particular school, and a very big reason for that school's fan base to have an ax to grind against a particular writer.

That said, reading this particular story,http://www.roopstigo.com/reader/auburns_vainted_title_victims_violations_and_vende ttas_for_glory/
there's a lot of emphasis on one person's story and very little evidence that can back it up or refute it. This makes for an intriguing story, but not for good journalism in my opinion.

Todd Gack
04-04-2013, 10:02 AM
No and there is zero evidence that he was. This has been settled. The NCAA's stance on this issue is that it couldn't in good conscience keep entertaining this notion given the lack of evidence supporting it.

Cam is in fact paying Auburn right now though.

Ok. I just wanted you on the record. It's good to know at least someone trusts the NCAA.

jojo
04-04-2013, 10:04 AM
Ok. I just wanted you on the record. It's good to know at least someone trusts the NCAA.

Wanted me on record?

I've written pages on this issue and why those who continue to argue that Auburn paid Cam, frankly, are hurting their credibility by contining to do so given established fact.

RiverRat13
04-04-2013, 10:09 AM
That article is pretty weak. Reads a lot like the hack job that Dohrmann tried to do to OSU.

jojo
04-04-2013, 10:11 AM
In general I tend to not believe fans when they accuse writers of a vendetta against a school. Whether it's Curry Kirkpatrick at IU (Wayback machine) Pete Thamel or Pat Forde at UK, or Selena Roberts at Auburn. There's generally very little reason for a writer to have an ax to grind against a particular school, and a very big reason for that school's fan base to have an ax to grind against a particular writer.

That said, reading this particular story,http://www.roopstigo.com/reader/auburns_vainted_title_victims_violations_and_vende ttas_for_glory/
there's a lot of emphasis on one person's story and very little evidence that can back it up or refute it. This makes for an intriguing story, but not for good journalism in my opinion.

Roberts blames Bobby Lowder and the BOTs for changes in the journalism program at Auburn that she did not agree with and apparently has taken personally. She has essntially ground an axe mutliple times in her career with pieces about Auburn athletics that consistently paint the same picture as the link in your post. Also, this isn't the first time her bias i.e. "the culture of big time football ruined a vital academic program!" has hurt her credibility.

Ignore everything she has ever written about Auburn and simply read her treatment of the Duke Lacrosse case and decide if she hasn't jumped a shark long ago.

Todd Gack
04-04-2013, 10:27 AM
Wanted me on record?

I've written pages on this issue and why those who continue to argue that Auburn paid Cam, frankly, are hurting their credibility by contining to do so given established fact.

Has anyone at Auburn ever been paid?

Hoosier Red
04-04-2013, 10:31 AM
Roberts blames Bobby Lowder and the BOTs for changes in the journalism program at Auburn that she did not agree with and apparently has taken personally. She has essntially ground an axe mutliple times in her career with pieces about Auburn athletics that consistently paint the same picture as the link in your post. Also, this isn't the first time her bias i.e. "the culture of big time football ruined a vital academic program!" has hurt her credibility.

Ignore everything she has ever written about Auburn and simply read her treatment of the Duke Lacrosse case and decide if she hasn't jumped a shark long ago.

Fair enough, the Duke lacrosse stories sort of prove my point. It isn't that she has an ax to grind against Auburn. It's that she's a good writer but poor journalist who writes interesting if not necessarily factually accurate stories.

jojo
04-04-2013, 10:36 AM
Has anyone at Auburn ever been paid?

Thousands of people at Auburn have been paid and continue to get paid biweekly and monthly.

But if you want to talk about something that happened in the early 90's as part of a probe into my objectivity, i'd say the discussion actually says much more about you and it also ignores just about every contribution I've made to a discussion about Auburn on redszone.

But ya, Auburn has a culture of changing grades but wouldn't let a 5 star prospect into school because they didn't like an English grade he had gotten and Auburn suspended a player accused of armed robbery as way to deflect attention from Cam. It's all perfectly logical.

bucksfan2
04-04-2013, 11:03 AM
In general I tend to not believe fans when they accuse writers of a vendetta against a school. Whether it's Curry Kirkpatrick at IU (Wayback machine) Pete Thamel or Pat Forde at UK, or Selena Roberts at Auburn. There's generally very little reason for a writer to have an ax to grind against a particular school, and a very big reason for that school's fan base to have an ax to grind against a particular writer.

That said, reading this particular story,http://www.roopstigo.com/reader/auburns_vainted_title_victims_violations_and_vende ttas_for_glory/
there's a lot of emphasis on one person's story and very little evidence that can back it up or refute it. This makes for an intriguing story, but not for good journalism in my opinion.

I tend to think that once someone gets wind of an allegation they sink their teeth into it. Maybe they don't have an "ax to grind" per say but they want to see something come of the story. I don't think a good reporter really cares about a school one way or another, they just want to see their work validated. The good ones are able to back away from the story, the bad ones press.

In most cases its someone who feels slighted or is upset at a school/coach/etc. who brings down the program. At Miami it was Nevin Schapiro who was a ponzi schemer. At OSU it was a tattoo parlor owner in trouble with the law. In regards to Auburn there has been a ton of smoke. If I am a betting man, I am betting there will be a fire soon.

gonelong
04-04-2013, 11:25 AM
If you look long enough at any major football program in D1 I think you would eventually find something.

If you can find someone outside the program willing to talk, you get your story. If you can't, all you get is a drive-by. It can all be true or can all be sensationalized, doesn't really matter if the NCAA can't get anyone to sell you out. Auburn hasn't had anyone willing to sell them out yet, so they get a clean bill of health. (I'm not saying they are doing anything that any other program is not.)

Frankly, this woman has a crazy vibe to her and doesn't feel on the up-and-up to me. I'm willing to give Auburn a straight pass on this drive-by unless something else comes out of it.

GL

jojo
04-04-2013, 11:32 AM
I tend to think that once someone gets wind of an allegation they sink their teeth into it. Maybe they don't have an "ax to grind" per say but they want to see something come of the story. I don't think a good reporter really cares about a school one way or another, they just want to see their work validated. The good ones are able to back away from the story, the bad ones press.

In most cases its someone who feels slighted or is upset at a school/coach/etc. who brings down the program. At Miami it was Nevin Schapiro who was a ponzi schemer. At OSU it was a tattoo parlor owner in trouble with the law. In regards to Auburn there has been a ton of smoke. If I am a betting man, I am betting there will be a fire soon.

Dont bet your house.

BuckeyeRed27
04-04-2013, 12:48 PM
I think there is a good chance this story is probably true. However everything she sites is going to be very hard to prove, unless you have someone in the athletic department that wants to own up to changing grades for athletes. I doubt there are going to be emails or computer records of those things happening and without hard evidence this isn't going anywhere.

bucksfan2
04-04-2013, 01:24 PM
Dont bet your house.

Yea having two houses to clean could get pretty difficult.

jojo
04-04-2013, 02:24 PM
Yea having two houses to clean could get pretty difficult.

In this case you'd be down one and it would be a worse bet then thinking you're smarter than Vegas.

bucksfan2
04-04-2013, 02:41 PM
In this case you'd be down one and it would be a worse bet then thinking you're smarter than Vegas.

I am betting with the house betting against Auburn fan.

Heard Paul Feinbaum give a take on ESPN.com and basically he said these allegation aren't surprising. He doesn't know if the NCAA will go back to Auburn because of all the interviews they have already conducted but also because of the fiasco in Miami. He also said that most people outside of Auburn saw the BCS title as tarnished at the time and this only goes further to reaffirming that position.

jojo
04-04-2013, 02:54 PM
I think there is a good chance this story is probably true.

Chizik is a racist (she implied he treats African Americans "differently")? Jeeps, that's a tough one to defend just on it's face. But then when you consider that Chizik stuck by his right hand man to the bitter end (Trooper Taylor, a minority) while running off the architects of the 2010 championship (Roof and Malzahn-both distinctly not minorities) in moves that essentially cost him his job, it seems even more difficult to argue Chizik has trouble with certain "types" of players. Gosh knows he certainly recruited enough tattoos/dredlocks, highly successfully, to make such an assertion that he despised tattos and dreadlocks seem a little silly. But really I think the nail in that coffin is that Taylor actually sued Auburn city schools because his son's coach had a rule that prohibited Trooper's son from having dreadlocks. Either that infuriated Chizik so much he couldn't concentrate on coaching ultimately leading to a 3-9 season, or maybe, Chizik's loyalty to certain people led to his demise and also kind of illustrates that Robert's assertion couldn't be further from "probably true".

What about other things she alledges? Auburn fixes grades so that the football team can win? Well I wish. Coming off a season where their defense was historically bad (not only for Auburn but really darn near D1 historically bad), Auburn wouldn't even admit a 5 star defensive lineman because of a grade he got in an English class. Guess they'll never get the chance to "fix" his grades. But really those who actually understand what goes on at Auburn werent surprised because this has happened quite often-i.e. antagonism between the athletic department and the "people who fix grades at Auburn". Ask Tony Barbee what he thinks about allegations that Auburn changes grades for it's athletes.

Chizik tried to hurt his player's ability to be drafted? That is so consistent with using players who graduate to the nfl as a recruiting tool. Seriously that makes no sense especially given the hard fought recruiting wars that Auburn fights every year with Bama, Georgia, and LSU. Besides, that is anti-thetical to Chizik's whole persona. If anything, he's coddled players and preferentially treated the "stars".

Speaking of stars, Chizik treated Adams poorly? Adams became a star receiver under Chizik. He doesn't play professional football anywhere if not for the Auburn offense of2 009-2010.

Nieko Thorpe was treated poorly? He has issued the strongest statement refuting Roberts' "probably true" allegations. He's just one of the many players who have publically refuted what Roberts wrote about them.

People who are familiar with Auburn just roll their eyes at some of the craziness that Roberts wrote( and it's not like this is the first time Roberts has written something similar about Auburn). Even Finebuam who makes a living by whipping up the Bama fans of Birmingham like Jerry Springer in a trailor park, couldn't even bring himself to suggest Roberts' story has credibility.

And what of Roberts' smoking gun? Apparently she didn't actually have any bullets in it....


When Mike McNeil told me I would receive a call from her, he just said this is a lady that's trying to help my case and she wants to know some things about my character. If I knew she was going to slander Auburn and slander my name, I never would have talked to her. Mike is a teammate of ours and if it was something that could help him, I'm all about helping anybody. But if I knew it was to slander and talk badly about people, I never would have agreed to talk to her.


While I spoke to Selena Roberts about Mike I have just read her article & not only am I misquoted but my words are very out of context. We didn't talk about NCAA violations or recruiting. I'm proud 2 have played at Auburn & the opportunities it gave me


Please dont remix my words


I'd like to be clear, I don't make any difference for a football player, a football coach, anybody," I could care less what a football coach has to say. A football coach doesn't tell me how to run the Auburn police division.


(When asked if the Roberts story is true)
"I don't even know who that is"


Totally deny it. I don’t know where this is coming from.


We went to a house party with no cover, Kirkpatrick said. Nobody gave me money. Nobody spent money on me.


“During my tenure at Auburn, the NCAA conducted a multi-year investigation into the Auburn football program that they called “fair and thorough.” The NCAA focused intently on widespread accusations about Auburn players being paid and other alleged recruiting violations. The NCAA conducted 80 interviews. In October 2011, the NCAA rejected “rampant public speculation online and in the media.” Unfortunately, the recent story published by Selena Roberts is more of the same. It once again portrays Auburn University, current and former coaches, professors, fans, supporters and community officials in a false light.

“Unfortunately, Ms. Roberts’ story is long on accusation and inference, but short on facts and logic. It is noteworthy that the story comes just days before a player mentioned most prominently in the article is set to go to trial for felony armed robbery. The statements are very generalized accusations devoid of substance. During my time as Auburn’s head coach, I never authorized, instructed or directed anyone to change any player’s grade or provide any type of illegal payment to any student-athlete. Likewise, I am not aware of any alleged grade change or illegal payment by any member of my coaching staff, support staff or anyone else.

“As for logic, the notion that the conduct inferred by Ms. Roberts was occurring under the NCAA’s nose, at the very same time the NCAA is conducting its thorough investigation, lacks merit. Further, the notion that there was ever an attempt to sabotage any Auburn student-athlete’s attempt to play professional football is outrageous. Auburn’s success in transitioning student-athletes to the NFL benefits both the student-athlete and the Auburn program.

“I remain part of the Auburn family and take these attacks on myself, the University and community seriously. During my time at Auburn, the administrators, professors and academic staff were of the highest integrity. Additionally, the inference that there was academic support staff that worked together with professors to change grades is absurd. As an Auburn resident, I take great pride in the quality and integrity of our police department. They enforce the law equally and fairly and my dealings with police Chief Tommy Dawson and his staff have been nothing short of excellent. He has handled many high profile cases with the upmost integrity and professionalism. To imply anything otherwise is simply wrong.

“If there is a sad truth here, it is that there are no repercussions for bloggers who blast out widespread, venomous allegations and inferences in such an irresponsible manner. To make bold and outrageous conclusions on such thin support is a travesty.

“During my tenure as Auburn’s head coach, we kept the well-being of our student-athletes at the forefront of every decision. We ran our program with the highest level of integrity and accountability. Period. I make absolutely no apologies for that. I stand firm in my statements, my support of Auburn University, its student-athletes (present and former), faculty, staff and community officials. As I stated during the NCAA investigation, I am comforted knowing that the truth always prevails.

jojo
04-04-2013, 02:59 PM
I am betting with the house betting against Auburn fan.

You'll lose just like those who swore the NCAA was about to blow up Auburn with Cam-now there was a referendum on credibility if ever there was one.


Heard Paul Feinbaum give a take on ESPN.com and basically he said these allegation aren't surprising. He doesn't know if the NCAA will go back to Auburn because of all the interviews they have already conducted but also because of the fiasco in Miami. He also said that most people outside of Auburn saw the BCS title as tarnished at the time and this only goes further to reaffirming that position.

Finebaum did not suggest that these allegations are consistent with reality.

jojo
04-04-2013, 03:08 PM
And I'd just like to point out the Red Elephant in Auburn's closet.... Auburn's 2012 does not happen if a coaching staff has created a "culture of fear" like Roberts alledges and "controls its players too much".

You know what happens? Bama's 2012.

No Auburn's 2012 happens when players don't fear the coaching staff or consequences. And that is why Coaches lose their jobs and kids like Mosely and McNeal end up being accused of armed robbery seeminly out of the blue.

Cedric
04-04-2013, 04:17 PM
And I'd just like to point out the Red Elephant in Auburn's closet.... Auburn's 2012 does not happen if a coaching staff has created a "culture of fear" like Roberts alledges and "controls its players too much".

You know what happens? Bama's 2012.

No Auburn's 2012 happens when players don't fear the coaching staff or consequences. And that is why Coaches lose their jobs and kids like Mosely and McNeal end up being accused of armed robbery seeminly out of the blue.

Can James Brooks even read this absurd post?

jojo
04-04-2013, 05:12 PM
Can James Brooks even read this absurd post?

Maurice Clarrett sure can't. But certainly James Brooks can't find a coherent argument in your post.

jojo
04-04-2013, 05:31 PM
Mike Blanc refutes everything that Selena Roberts claimed he said and frankly his statements call into question whether she even asked the players about the things that she attributes their quotes to....

http://auburn.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1491490

BTW, Roberts seems to be degenerating into a wierdo, internet conspiracy nut:


Mike McNeil can detail how the culture of big-time football works in a fast-growing community of 53,000 under the thumb of its major industry: Auburn University athletics. In an economic impact survey by the school in 2007, the report stated: “a conservative estimate of Auburn football’s direct visitor expenditures is more than $79.6 million during seven home events. That spending generates some $173 million in economic impact.” The university tentacles reach everywhere as the leading employer in Lee County. Chris Hughes, the judge who is scheduled to sit on the bench at Mike’s trial next week, is an Auburn University alumnus. According to his website, he once worked at the university coliseum and his sister is an Auburn University professor. The school is a massive construction zone these days thanks to public funding and the largesse of wealthy alumni, many of whom sit in luxury boxes at Jordan-Hare Stadium, seating capacity 87,451.

As part of the BCS-dominant SEC, Auburn athletics feeds off the more than $3 billion earned by the conference through network and cable TV deals and will be part of an incoming stream of millions more with the SEC TV Network set to launch in 2014. “They recruit you by telling you what you want to hear: You’re family; you’re like a son to me,” says Mike. “But the reality is your class schedule is planned around football, not the other way around. It’s a business and there are players on the payroll.”

McNeil is not alone in understanding how Auburn football operates as an underground society beneath the NCAA’s radar. “Auburn does whatever Auburn wants,” says Thorpe. In interviews with more than a dozen players from the BCS title team, a portrait emerges of a championship tainted by allegations suggesting a program going off the rails:


Chris Hughes is part of this grande hidden underground society that stretches it's evil tentacles throughout the southeast in the name of Auburn football? First, NO WAY the honorable judge Hughes is making decisions based upon the best interests of the Auburn football program (BTW, he got his law degree at Bama). McNeil is not being pressured by the legal system to intimidate him into silence. He is being tried for armed robbery. Interestingly, Judge Hughes also let one of the accused players out on bail so that he could actually leave the state to play football at another institution while the legal process played itself out. Come on Selena. This is really judicial terror?

Selena also should've interviewed Reese Dismukes about the special treatment that the Auburn Police Department gives to Auburn football players. For those who don't keep up with Auburn, he's the starting center who got suspended for the Clemson game last season because the Auburn Police Department arrested him.

Selena Roberts wrote a blog piece and she apparently took great liberties that wouldn't be possible with an editor exerting influence.

jojo
04-04-2013, 06:13 PM
Actually the more one thinks about Roberts' blog, it makes ESPN look really bad-not Auburn.

BuckeyeRed27
04-04-2013, 06:41 PM
We'll see. I've already acknowledged that the stuff she said is going to be very hard to prove (which you decided to leave out when you quoted me).

It is really easy after the fact to come out and say "Oh I didnt' say that", so I don't put much merit in that either. You would hope if she is a good journalist that she recorded any interviews she did, but I haven't heard anything to that end yet.

I like how sure you are at all times that Auburn is super squeaky clean. Maybe they are (they aren't), but that doesn't really matter. It is what the NCAA can or can't prove and in this case I would guess you are probably going to be ok.

jojo
04-04-2013, 07:18 PM
We'll see. I've already acknowledged that the stuff she said is going to be very hard to prove (which you decided to leave out when you quoted me).

It is really easy after the fact to come out and say "Oh I didnt' say that", so I don't put much merit in that either. You would hope if she is a good journalist that she recorded any interviews she did, but I haven't heard anything to that end yet.

I like how sure you are at all times that Auburn is super squeaky clean. Maybe they are (they aren't), but that doesn't really matter. It is what the NCAA can or can't prove and in this case I would guess you are probably going to be ok.

I never claimed Auburn is squeakly clean. In fact, i've talked alot about secondary violations and concerns about Trooper Taylor. Don't assume so much..... I'm also on record as saying that if Auburn was caught cheating, i'd be furious.

But I don't believe Auburn paid Cam. Why? Because the NCAA exhaustively investigated this issue and concluded they couldn't continue in good faith given the lack of any evidence to assert such an allegation. how many times has the NCAA started looking through phone records, bank statements, emails, car receipts, and tatoos and came up with NOTHING? This isn't a matter of the NCAA thinks Auburn paid Cam but just couldn't prove it as some who had Godzilla sized egg on their faces after things didn't end as they argued they would for months on end now like to claim. The NCAA couldn't even find a reason to think Auburn paid Cam.

And for all of this bluster about Auburn being the dirtiest program in college football with this culture of paying player left and right-BS. last time I checked, the early 90's were over three decades ago and that was realyl a very isolated infraction. Meanwhile, Bama has vacated 29 games since (OSU has vacated 12 wins) and essentially spent two decades straight on probation. Seriously, when was the last time that Auburn was involved in a serious sanction? Frankly one has to imagine vast conspiracies to explain why Auburn has apparently been so successful at hiding their criminal enterprise! At this point one can only assume that Bigfoot is the bagman.

BTW, Roberts said on the radio today that she had a few of conversations taped but not all of them and she feels no obligation to produce them or share them even if her integrity is challenged. In short, "trust her".

But really, facts are important. Selena Roberts wants people to beleive that grades were being changed, dozens of drug tests suppressed (Auburn BTW has one of the toughest drug policies in the SEC and really in the BCS) and cash flying through the air like in those insurance ads with the motorcycle guy on tv-all the while the NCAA was on campus giving the Athletic department a colonoscopy.

Shenanigans. It just doesn't stand the test of basic believability.

Furthermore, she's arguing the local police departments and judical system is involved in a conspiracy to silence McNeal apparently in order to deflect attention away from Cam Newton who, by the way, is back on campus taking classes (and the University can't tell enough people about it).

Seriously. Roberts has used McNeil in a contrived, contorted effort to forward an genda, tricked people into clicking on her website and ESPN has embarrassed itself because this is such a brazenly obvious example of how little they now resemble a legitimate news outlet.

BTW, McNeil burst into the trailor with several other individuals with his face covered to hide his identity while the occupants were robbed at gunpoint. He was arrested with his fellow alledged consirators in the vehicle used to drive away from the scene. That vehicle contained the weapon, the individuals matching the descriptions of the perpetrators (who were also identified in a lineup), and the articles that were stolen. Literally the players were in custody in the Auburn police station in a matter of less than a few hours. They were dismissed from the team pretty quickly after the facts of the arrests were reported.

What exactly was Auburn supposed to do in regards to McNeil? What was the appropriate response?

BuckeyeRed27
04-04-2013, 07:33 PM
Auburn should have kicked him off of their football team and told him that I hope he can find a good lawyer. His lack of being a good human being, doesn't mean he isn't telling the truth, but it obviously brings into question anything he says and he deserves that treatment due to his actions.

Also I don't believe Auburn paid Cam Newton. I think an Auburn booster paid Cam Newton. Who knows what Auburn knew about that and quite frankly that is why they stayed clean in that mess.

Even when the NCAA was given an exhaustive investigative report in the Miami story, they still found a way to mess that up. Unless someone messed up big time here and left an actual paper trail or has a locker full of old report cards Auburn is going to be fine.

jojo
04-04-2013, 07:39 PM
Auburn should have kicked him off of their football team and told him that I hope he can find a good lawyer. His lack of being a good human being, doesn't mean he isn't telling the truth, but it obviously brings into question anything he says and he deserves that treatment due to his actions.

Also I don't believe Auburn paid Cam Newton. I think an Auburn booster paid Cam Newton. Who knows what Auburn knew about that and quite frankly that is why they stayed clean in that mess.

Even when the NCAA was given an exhaustive investigative report in the Miami story, they still found a way to mess that up. Unless someone messed up big time here and left an actual paper trail or has a locker full of old report cards Auburn is going to be fine.

How exactly does $200,000 just magically get transferred? How the heck does the person getting it actually hide it? These aren't easy things to accomplish.

Seriously. I want to know so that I can get in on this but I don't want to end up in a federal prison sharing a cell with LSU and Bama fans.

jojo
04-04-2013, 07:46 PM
Anytime accusations are made against Auburn, we take them seriously. We have no reason to believe these allegations are either accurate or credible. However, as a matter of procedure, we are reviewing them carefully.

It is important to note that several of the sources in this story have since indicated they were either misquoted, quoted out of context or denied the allegations.

Unfortunately, the reporter who published this story did not fully represent to us what the story was about when requesting an interview. We were only told that the reporter was working on a story about the alleged armed robbery involving four former football players, which occurred over two years ago.

We were never told the story would include allegations about academic fraud or improper benefits. Had we known that, we would have responded immediately with the statement above.

jojo
04-04-2013, 10:20 PM
Before anyone wants to blather about Auburn and drugs because ESPN magazine is about to publish an article stemming from the grand jury testimony of McNeil and company (the defense tried to blame the armed robbery attempt on a culture of drug use that Auburn was supposedly allowing to happen), here is Auburn's statement to ESPN and to the community:

http://www.auburntigers.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/040413aaa.html


April 4, 2013

The following statement was provided to ESPN The Magazine on March 29, 2013. Also included below is an open letter to the Auburn Family from Athletics Director Jay Jacobs, which includes key supporting facts.

AUBURN ATHLETICS STATEMENT PROVIDED TO ESPN ON SYNTHETIC MARIJUANA STORY:

After a thorough internal review, the Auburn Athletics Department believes many of the allegations made by the individuals interviewed for this story are baseless and inaccurate.

As the District Attorney told a jury in open court a year ago, Auburn football and Auburn's policies had nothing to do with what happened the night that four former football players were arrested for armed robbery. Unfortunately, the defendants in this case are simply facing the consequences of their actions.

The facts clearly demonstrate that the Auburn Athletics Department and the Committee on Intercollegiate Athletics acted appropriately and aggressively in response to the growing threat of synthetic marijuana during the 2010-2011 academic year.

Auburn Athletics began testing its student-athletes for synthetic marijuana three days after a test became available. Since our drug testing policy was amended to include synthetic marijuana as a banned substance, there have been three positive tests for the drug out of more than 2,500 drug tests administered.

All of our student-athletes are regularly educated on the harms of all types of substance use and abuse, including synthetic marijuana. In addition to education, any student-athletes who test positive for drugs are required to seek professional counseling.

Auburn Athletics has always and will continue to put the wellbeing of our student-athletes at the forefront of our mission.

OPEN LETTER TO AUBURN FAMILY FROM JAY JACOBS

Dear Auburn Family,

You may have seen a story on ESPN.com this eveningabout the former Auburn football players who were dismissed two years ago for their involvement in an armed robbery.

The story chronicles the former players' use of synthetic marijuana, which the defendants in the robbery case have used as their primary defense in court. We expect another, more in-depth story to appear in an upcoming print edition of ESPN The Magazine.

We cooperated with ESPN in the story because of how appropriately and aggressively the Auburn Athletics Department and the Committee on Intercollegiate Athletics acted in response to the growing threat of synthetic marijuana during the 2010-2011 academic year.

As a father of three, I sympathize with the parents of the young men who face prison sentences for their alleged involvement in the armed robbery. While they have a right to speak out, I have an obligation to share the facts, which clearly show Auburn Athletics tried to help these former student-athletes.

Some of the statements made in the story are wrong and need to be corrected, while others need to be put into proper context. One player interviewed by ESPN, for example, alleges that up to half of the 2010 football team was using synthetic marijuana. It's hard to be more wrong than that. The facts and our drug testing results simply do not support such a claim.

A parent interviewed told ESPN they would have done more to help her son had we done more to let her know he was in trouble. That is incorrect. The facts demonstrate that our coaches and Sports Medicine professionals had regular communication with the parents and that every effort was made to warn our student-athletes about the dangers of synthetic marijuana.

Allow me to share with you the facts that we provided to the reporter. Some of them were included in the initial story. Some were not.

Auburn Athletics began testing for synthetic marijuana three days after our testing company made a test available. A test became available on Jan. 24, 2011, and Auburn added the test to its panel on Jan. 27, 2011.

Since our drug testing policy was amended to include synthetic marijuana as a banned substance, there have been three positive tests for the drug out of more than 2,500 drug tests administered. Those three individuals are no longer on Auburn Athletics rosters.

As soon as our Director of Sports Medicine was aware that synthetic marijuana was a drug readily available in convenience stores in the fall of 2010, Auburn Athletics contacted our drug testing company to inquire about whether they had a test for synthetic marijuana and when one would be made available. They did not have a test at the time.

At the same time, our Director of Sports Medicine began education efforts aimed at our coaches and student-athletes.

Auburn Athletics provided urine samples to the drug testing company to assist them in their efforts to develop a test.

The Director of Sports Medicine and former Coach Gene Chizik both addressed the football team about the dangers of synthetic marijuana at multiple team meetings in the Fall of 2010, before a test was available. A story about the drug was placed on the locker of every football player on the team.

Within the first few months of testing, 3 percent of our student-athletes tested positive for synthetic marijuana.

Phone records show that more than 50 phone calls were made to the parents of two former student-athletes who were interviewed by ESPN.

The father of one of the student-athletes who was apparently interviewed by ESPN was sent a letter informing him that his son had failed a drug test for regular marijuana two months before the robbery.

The Auburn Drug Testing/Drug Education Advisory Committee recommended to the Committee on Intercollegiate Athletics that synthetic marijuana be added to the Auburn Athletics drug testing policy on March 14, 2011. The policy change was adopted that day.

Penalties for the use of synthetic marijuana were put into place for the next academic year beginning in August of 2011. Since it became a banned substance under the drug testing policy, only three student-athletes have tested positive for synthetic marijuana out of more than 2,500 tests administered.

I hope the facts clear up any misconceptions about drug use among our student-athletes. It is important for you to know that Auburn Athletics conducts approximately 1,500 drug tests each academic year. Less than one percent of our student-athletes test positive for illegal substances.

God Bless and War Eagle,

Jay

McNeil's lawyers used Roberts to further their own agenda as they try and blame somebody, anybody for McNeil's actions. Roberts used McNeil as a platform to push her anti-Auburn/anti-college athletics agenda. Lazy sports entertainment networks filled some time with a titillating tale of intuitive innuendo that required no work to pimp.

We're all dumber for it in the meantime.

Cedric
04-04-2013, 10:31 PM
Before anyone wants to blather about Auburn and drugs because ESPN magazine is about to publish an article stemming from the grand jury testimony of McNeil and company (the defense tried to blame the armed robbery attempt on a culture of drug use that Auburn was supposedly allowing to happen), here is Auburn's statement to ESPN and to the community:

http://www.auburntigers.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/040413aaa.html



McNeil's lawyers used Roberts to furter their own agenda as they try and blame somebody, anybody for McNeil's actions. Roberts used McNeil as a platform to push her anti-Auburn/anti-college athletics agenda. Lazy sports entertainment networks filled some time with a titillating tale of intuitive innuendo that required no work to pimp.

We're all dumber for it in the meantime.

Luckily for you we all know how incompetent and void of integrity the NCAA is. They botch everything and will surely botch this. We also know that nobody closes ranks and covers cheating like Auburn and other SEC schools. They have plenty of practice.

jojo
04-04-2013, 10:36 PM
Luckily for you we all know how incompetent and void of integrity the NCAA is. They botch everything and will surely botch this. We also know that nobody closes ranks and covers cheating like Auburn and other SEC schools. They have plenty of practice.

Yes. That is why Alabama has spent roughly two decades on probation and has been forced to vacate 29 wins since the early 90's-because the SEC is so good at covering their cheating.

Listen Cedric, either come with some actual substance or at least be honest and admit you've formed a biased opinion and will not be swayed regardless of reality or fact.

RedFanAlways1966
04-05-2013, 08:39 AM
Where there's smoke, there's fire. History repeats itself. Terry Bowden laughs!

We will see. Auburn (Cam, baby) seems to be good at covering tracks. Some smart people there (of course not the athletes with bad grades). Right now it is just a report. Almost seems tough to prove something like changing grades or asst. coaches handing money to players. All words out of mouths of former players. Wonder why these former players seem hell bent on bringing down their former team? Especially if it is untrue. Perhaps there is a Terry Bowden thing related to these former players (screwed by the one that used to feed you). For those who do not know about Bowden... he was coach there and got fired b/c certain powers-to-be did not care for him. He led them to an undefeated season (while on probation, not his doing). Maybe these former players got screwed by AU... not given the money/girls/grades they were promised? Just speculation. But there is a lot of smoke in the southern parts of Alabama. As there has been many times in the past.

jojo
04-05-2013, 08:40 AM
ESPN’s Auburn Synthetic Reefer Madness Report Has Some Major Flaws

http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2013/04/04/espns-auburn-synthetic-reefer-madness-report-has-some-major-flaws/?source=top-modules

jojo
04-05-2013, 08:46 AM
Where there's smoke, there's fire. History repeats itself. Terry Bowden laughs!

We will see. Auburn (Cam, baby) seems to be good at covering tracks. Some smart people there (of course not the athletes with bad grades). Right now it is just a report. Almost seems tough to prove something like changing grades or asst. coaches handing money to players. All words out of mouths of former players. Wonder why these former players seem hell bent on bringing down their former team? Especially if it is untrue. Perhaps there is a Terry Bowden thing related to these former players (screwed by the one that used to feed you). For those who do not know about Bowden... he was coach there and got fired b/c certain powers-to-be did not care for him. He led them to an undefeated season (while on probation, not his doing). Maybe these former players got screwed by AU... not given the money/girls/grades they were promised? Just speculation. But there is a lot of smoke in the southern parts of Alabama. As there has been many times in the past.

Where there is smoke there is smoke. There's a reason that the Smokey Mountains aren't called the On fire Mountains.

It's intellectually lazy at best to argue smoke=fact. It's often just obfuscation in lieu of substantiating a claim.

What former players are hellbent on bringing down Auburn? Most of the players Roberts named have vehemently denied that she accurately quoted them. Even McNeil won't substantiate Roberts' blog story-he was asked several times yesterday by reporters to do so. Again-lets stick to facts not impressions of headlines. The lawyers for McNeil and his partners tried to make this about a drug culture during the grand jury phase. McNeil is trying to stay out of prison. Roberts is trying to use McNeil as proof that an Auburn Football Secret Society exists and insidiously controls all branches of the government to enrich the athletic department. Reasonable people actually entertain this story?

But then those that actually care to look at the facts concerning Auburn quickly realize that there really isn't even alot of smoke but mostly poofers echoing on the blogoshere.....(i.e. what many want to call smoke doesn't even stand the test of fact/accuracy). I heard Mike and Mike today describe Roberts blog story as the "Auburn cheating scandal". There is no Auburn cheating scandal. Those guys were editorializing about an issue for which their opinions were grossly uninformed.

Seriously anyone who knows anything about Will M, would gag with laughter upon hearing a story about him embracing a player after a bad practice and handing the player $400 to perk him up. It would be more believable that Muschamp grabbed McNeil by his dreadlocks and planted his nose square into a tackling dummy.

The local police and judges are conspiring with Chizik to railroad McNeil to deflect attention from Cam and apparently Chizik targeted McNeil because Chizik is a racist and doesn't like dredlocks? Seriously Mike and Mike-that didn't seem like something to question? I doubt they even read Roberts' blog. In fact I know there is no way they could have given their superficial treatment.

And that's the point. Alot of this smoke is echoes across the internet of people editorializing about something they really aren't familiar with or qualified to discuss factually.

BTW, grade changes are extremely easy to verify because there is a rock solid paper trail. There's probably a good reason that Roberts decided to take McNeil's word rather than do some simple checking. Literally a grade change is time stamped, it is crystal clear which administrator made the change and incredibly easy to find the justification.

But ya, you're "just speculation" speaks volumes (and this isn't a commentary directed at you) because it's very easy to speculate anything. It's even easier than a scout dreaming on a high school pitcher because at least the pitcher generally has some stuff.

For instance, OSU got nailed after the NCAA poked into emails and records etc. We know for a fact there was fire generating the smoke at OSU-its' factually documented. It's very easy to speculate that OSU got off easy though because they had plently of time to completely erase all evidence of the truly big, bad stuff that was going on and to thus cauterize the wounds. It's possible that the athletic department was providing high class call girls to recruits. This is leagal in Las Vegas and OSU has a jet plane that could easily be used to fly them back and forth. I could imagine that OSU bought several houses for the parents of their star players. There might even be a subdivision in Columbus, a gated community of illegal gift houses if you will. College football is big business and OSU constantly battles their rivals Michigan and PSU for the top recruits. They also seem to be branching out into non-traditional recruiting waters so surely they are outbidding all of those other cheating schools in the "where there is smoke there is fire hotbeds" like Mobile. Why would a recruit go to OSU for free when Georgia, Bama, Auburn and LSU are handing out $200,000 checks? Heck OSU brought in a mastermind of the "cheaters too smart to get caught" from the SEC to be their coach! But why wouldn't any of this be easy to trace by follwoing a money trail? Well obviously it's because the OSU athletic department is funding this through orchestrating a cocaine dealing ring. They guys getting the free tattos? They were really selling the cocaine and the tatoo shop was the front for the OSU recruiting program. This goes deep as it's likely local politicians, judges and police officers are somehow involved in the coverup. That's how OSU was able to hide everything because they got plenty of advanced warning.

See how easy but unfair it is?

Todd Gack
04-05-2013, 10:14 AM
Thousands of people at Auburn have been paid and continue to get paid biweekly and monthly.

But if you want to talk about something that happened in the early 90's as part of a probe into my objectivity, i'd say the discussion actually says much more about you and it also ignores just about every contribution I've made to a discussion about Auburn on redszone.

But ya, Auburn has a culture of changing grades but wouldn't let a 5 star prospect into school because they didn't like an English grade he had gotten and Auburn suspended a player accused of armed robbery as way to deflect attention from Cam. It's all perfectly logical.

Have any football players at Auburn been paid illegally by boosters.

jojo
04-05-2013, 10:16 AM
Have any football players at Auburn been paid illegally by boosters.

I have no knowledge of any such payments. Do you?

Have any football players at OSU been paid illegally by boosters?

Todd Gack
04-05-2013, 10:20 AM
I have no knowledge of any such payments. Do you?

Have any football players at OSU been paid illegally by boosters?

I'm asking you believe at any point they've been paid. I don't want you to show me proof. I'm just asking, in your personal opinion, if you believe Auburn football players have ever been 'paid' to play football at Auburn.

jojo
04-05-2013, 10:22 AM
I'm asking you believe at any point they've been paid. I don't want you to show me proof. I'm just asking, in your personal opinion, if you believe Auburn football players have ever been 'paid' to play football at Auburn.

In the history of Auburn football?

Im sure some have.

Now what is your point again?

RedFanAlways1966
04-05-2013, 10:27 AM
But ya you're "just speculation" speaks volumes.

And a true AU fan who lives in intellectual reality is willing to admit that the crap happens (and happens at lots of places). It speaks volumes about those who pretend is does not happen or truly believe it does not happen. Tell us about the history of cheating at AU or the fact that AU running back James Brooks was illiterate yet never ineligible (FACTS... don't you love it?). I am an avid Ohio State supporter, but I know damn well crap happens there too. I live in the real world (me gots intellects) and I am not blinded by my support.

This is a MESSAGE BOARD. Opinions are given. Like the DH in the NL. A lot of things are opinion. This next AU story is in the sports headlines. It will be discussed and opinions are given on a message board, radio and TV. Got a problem with that... welcome to reality (imagine that). Your dedication and blind(?) loyalty is appreciated lol.

Todd Gack
04-05-2013, 10:31 AM
In the history of Auburn football?

Im sure some have.

Now what is your point again?

Why did you have to make it so difficult?

I'm just asking if you actually believe any football players at AU ever been paid. I'm not trying to put down Auburn for trying to pay Newton. I'm just amused that you think the most overrated player in the NFL probably wasn't paid at Auburn. Maybe you are that naive.

jojo
04-05-2013, 10:35 AM
Why did you have to make it so difficult?

I'm just asking if you actually believe any football players at AU ever been paid. I'm not trying to put down Auburn for trying to pay Newton. I'm just amused that you think the most overrated player in the NFL probably wasn't paid at Auburn. Maybe you are that naive.

Maybe if the NCAA hadn't exhaustively investigated this very point, I wouldn't conclude that Cam's recruitment was legal.

But since the NCAA did exhaustively investigate this very point, you have a very high bar to overcome when arguing that Cam was paid. You also have to admit you have zero factual basis supporting your conclusion.

Then again maybe you are that cynically biased?

jojo
04-05-2013, 10:39 AM
It speaks volumes about those who pretend is does not happen or truly believe it does not happen.

It speaks volumes that you keep trying to kick strawmen in the nads.


This is a MESSAGE BOARD. Opinions are given. Like the DH in the NL. A lot of things are opinion. This next AU story is in the sports headlines. It will be discussed and opinions are given on a message board, radio and TV. Got a problem with that... welcome to reality (imagine that). Your dedication and blind(?) loyalty is appreciated lol.

This is a message board. Opinions are given. And poorly constructed, unsubstantiated opinions are revealed as being just that-invalid and not equal to ones based upon fact.

dabvu2498
04-05-2013, 10:50 AM
And I'd just like to point out the Red Elephant in Auburn's closet.... Auburn's 2012 does not happen if a coaching staff has created a "culture of fear" like Roberts alledges and "controls its players too much".


Here's an even bigger "Red Elephant" in my mind: Chizik won a national championship 2 years ago and is currently unemployed.

jojo
04-05-2013, 11:16 AM
Here's an even bigger "Red Elephant" in my mind: Chizik won a national championship 2 years ago and is currently unemployed.

Thats pretty easy to explain. I don't think Chizik can create a culture where players develop and excel.

He inherited a culture and added some key parts but after 2010 there was an exodus of "cultural memory" as the upperclassman left. Coupled with the Tubby bubble (his last two very poor recruiting classes) there was a void in leadership by example and Chizik's way of doing business wasn't compensating. This really exposed Chizik's weaknesses as a HC. Great DC. Not great HC.

wolfboy
04-05-2013, 11:21 AM
I have no knowledge of any such payments. Do you?

Have any football players at OSU been paid illegally by boosters?

No.

http://now.msn.com/maurice-clarett-says-he-took-a-pay-cut-from-ohio-state-to-ufl

BuckeyeRed27
04-05-2013, 12:14 PM
On the drug story ESPN says that Auburn tested for this drug in 2010, but that letter says they didn't start until 2011. So which is it? Did they not "officially" start testing until 2011, but had a bunch of failed tests in 2010 and is there any evidence of these 2010 tests that ESPN is sighting?

jojo
04-05-2013, 12:52 PM
On the drug story ESPN says that Auburn tested for this drug in 2010, but that letter says they didn't start until 2011. So which is it? Did they not "officially" start testing until 2011, but had a bunch of failed tests in 2010 and is there any evidence of these 2010 tests that ESPN is sighting?

An official test wasn't available until 2011. Auburn actually assisted in the development of the test.

Auburn learned of the availability of the drug in stores. Auburn helped develop a test for it because one wasn't available. Auburn began testing for the drug a couple of days after a reliable test was available. Michael Dyer wonders how ESPN could argue Auburn didn't penalize players who tested positive for an illegal drug.

Here's a brief rebuttal of ESPN. You can also assume the the timeline from Jacob's statement is accurate.

http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2013/04/04/espns-auburn-synthetic-reefer-madness-report-has-some-major-flaws/?source=top-modules

RedFanAlways1966
04-05-2013, 01:52 PM
It speaks volumes that you keep trying to kick strawmen in the nads.

This is a message board. Opinions are given. And poorly constructed, unsubstantiated opinions are revealed as being just that-invalid and not equal to ones based upon fact.

Nicely said.

http://us.cdn003.fansshare.com/photos/jimparsons/the-big-bang-theory-sheldon-cooper-jim-parsons-monitor-block-serial-botanist-the-big-bang-theory-1153700793.jpg

jojo
04-05-2013, 01:54 PM
Nicely said.

http://us.cdn003.fansshare.com/photos/jimparsons/the-big-bang-theory-sheldon-cooper-jim-parsons-monitor-block-serial-botanist-the-big-bang-theory-1153700793.jpg

If you think it's geeky to have a reason for your opinion, then I don't know what to tell you other than you'll find your opinions are often treated as invalid and less compelling.

LoganBuck
04-05-2013, 02:21 PM
Players with an axe to grind are rarely the best source of information. Remember the 2004 ESPN investigation into Ohio State? They went to every doofus that had been kicked off the team, flunked out, or transferred.

Does Auburn have some skeletons in the closet? Probably.
Are they unique in that regard? No.

Go around the country and start counting the schools that have some sort of NCAA violation in the last 10-15 years. The list gets pretty long. Internet arguments on the sanctity of the schools is at best an exercise in annoyance.

jojo
04-05-2013, 02:28 PM
Players with an axe to grind are rarely the best source of information. Remember the 2004 ESPN investigation into Ohio State? They went to every doofus that had been kicked off the team, flunked out, or transferred.

Does Auburn have some skeletons in the closet? Probably.
Are they unique in that regard? No.

Go around the country and start counting the schools that have some sort of NCAA violation in the last 10-15 years. The list gets pretty long. Internet arguments on the sanctity of the schools is at best an exercise in annoyance.

I've never argued that Auburn is Camelot.

I have refuted statements that aren't factually correct. That's two dramatically different things.

RedFanAlways1966
04-05-2013, 02:34 PM
If you think it's geeky to have a reason for your opinion, then I don't know what to tell you other than you'll find your opinions are often treated as invalid and less compelling.

Nothing to do with being geeky. A whole bunch to do with attitude and the message that is being typed. Maybe only idiots (the rest of us) understand that. Have a good day, jojo.

ho·li·er-than-thou (hl-r-n-ou) adj.
Exhibiting an attitude of superior virtue; self-righteously pious.


.

LoganBuck
04-05-2013, 02:44 PM
I've never argued that Auburn is Camelot.

I have refuted statements that aren't factually correct. That's two dramatically different things.

I meant no malice towards Auburn or you. I just grow weary of the ever present gotcha games that fan bases throw at each other.

Glass Houses

jojo
04-05-2013, 03:02 PM
Nothing to do with being geeky. A whole bunch to do with attitude and the message that is being typed. Maybe only idiots (the rest of us) understand that. Have a good day, jojo.

ho·li·er-than-thou (hl-r-n-ou) adj.
Exhibiting an attitude of superior virtue; self-righteously pious.


.


Here's the thing-it's not holier than though to evaluate a person's reasons for their opinions especailly when they state them emphatically.

It is kind of strange to see someone get offended when asked to justify their opinions though.

And frankly, its unreasonable to expect all opinions to be treated as equal (that's not a holier than thou position to hold either).

Either you want to discuss the merits of Roberts' story or you don't.

jojo
04-05-2013, 03:13 PM
I meant no malice towards Auburn or you. I just grow weary of the ever present gotcha games that fan bases throw at each other.

Glass Houses

I know.

But while one shouldn't throw stones in glass houses, it's ok to throw them at Bama fans.

jojo
04-05-2013, 04:42 PM
http://www.oanow.com/sports/college/auburn/football/article_bf26dd4a-9e15-11e2-a247-0019bb30f31a.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


Auburn releases Selena Roberts' interview request, calls report 'gotchya, hide-the-bal journalism

Scrap Irony
04-05-2013, 06:04 PM
Nothing to do with being geeky. A whole bunch to do with attitude and the message that is being typed. Maybe only idiots (the rest of us) understand that. Have a good day, jojo.

ho·li·er-than-thou (hl-r-n-ou) adj.
Exhibiting an attitude of superior virtue; self-righteously pious.


.

I'm an idiot that understands the need for proof when asking for backing up an opinion.

If you back nothing up, your opinion isn't anything more than hot air.

If that's holier than thou, then this board as a whole is pretty much holier than thou. Posters at the beginning of Redszone certainly demanded proof for opinions. It's not like this is something new to this site.

dabvu2498
04-05-2013, 06:11 PM
I meant no malice towards Auburn or you. I just grow weary of the ever present gotcha games that fan bases throw at each other.

Glass Houses

Similar sentiment from Forde today in an article about the NCAA. Pretty decent piece, even if you disagree with him.

"Instead, it's easier to fall back on the old reliable position of paranoia and persecution. My Favorite School was unfairly railroaded by the inept, agenda-driven NCAA. All other schools get a pass from the NCAA because My Favorite School is hated by the powers that be."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--ncaa-president-mark-emmert-becomes-final-four-piñata-221627831.html

Same can be said about the "media"

jojo
04-05-2013, 08:01 PM
http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2013/04/04/espns-auburn-synthetic-reefer-madness-report-has-some-major-flaws/?source=top-modules

ESPN tried to defend their story about Auburn and SPICE in response to criticisms:


“ESPN The Magazine stands by its reporting on the Auburn story (http://es.pn/16wYndx), a process conducted over six months and including more than 30 interviews. Contrary to other suggestions, JWH-018 (Spice) has been illegal to possess in the state of Alabama since the Alabama Synthetic Marijuana law was enacted July 1, 2010: http://bit.ly/YXosSB (2010-717). Additionally, during that same month a test for the drug was made available to the general public:. http://bit.ly/10EIHSm.”

ESPN was then kinda eviscerated:


Alabama did pass a synthetic marijuana law on July 1, 2010. Because of a loophole, manufacturers were able to skirt around the law. Such products were not removed from store shelves until an emergency order was passed in October 14, 2011. Had this product not been on store shelves, giving stores a 10-day grace period to remove said product from their store shelves would not have been necessary.

Auburn contends they inquired about a test with their drug testing company in the Fall of 2010 and were told one wasn’t available. They implemented it three days after the company had a preliminary one in January 2011. This was for a drug that (a) any player could have walked into a store and bought and (b) was not on the NCAA or Auburn’s banned substances list. If accurate, that is a reasonable course of action. It is more proactive than they were required to be.

ESPN’s contention is that Auburn was derelict because the school should have known there was an “epidemic” of synthetic marijuana use (12 players failed the test, a figure lower than the 26.7 percent of college football players who admit marijuana use) when they weren’t testing and should have scoured the rest of the country to find another testing agency to conduct the tests immediately. That is an unfair criticism.

Criticize a school for not meeting its obligations. You can’t criticize a school credibly for failing to go well beyond its obligations. Especially when there were none. There is no prescribed standard of conduct to which one could compare Auburn’s handling of synthetic marijuana. The article mentions no comparison to how any other school handled synthetic marijuana. However long it took and however many interviews were conducted, this piece is a scandalous, empty headline devoid of coherent logic for its existence.

Link to updated story with response: http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2013/04/04/espns-auburn-synthetic-reefer-madness-report-has-some-major-flaws/

jojo
04-06-2013, 12:48 PM
http://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/15988-huie-article-1941-colliers-magazine/

jojo
04-06-2013, 05:41 PM
Interesting nuggets in the comments section of the ESPN spice story. Readers were slagging on the habit that ESPN seems to have for writing negative stories about Auburn especially given this one is such a brazen, thouroughly discredited hack job.

BTW, has anyone wondered why there was zero commment about Alabama football and spice in that article? Wouldn't how they dealt with the situation be useful context?

Anyway, Mark Schlabach, an ESPN columnist, responded but his answers might surprise some who consider ESPN trustworthy. ESPN has zero credibility when it comes to Auburn and Mark Schlabach pretty much admits it:



This is purely a hit job. this story could have been about any major college sports team, or just the drug in general, and ESPN decided to go after Auburn for doing not suspending players for a drug that was completely legal at the time. Is it dangerous? yes. so is football, but it was legal and as adults they made the decision to do it. I am sick of people complaining about how teams should babysit their players. If you are old enough to vote for the president and die in the army, you don't need someone telling you how to live your lifeless



I understand your concern, pace tiger, but you have to understand that we have a responsibility to our sponsors to create interesting news stories for our audience.



The problem is that ESPN then becomes Fox News. Remember "Obama is a muslim terrortist born in Kenya"....nevermind the fact that he is a Christian American born in Hawaii.



Fox News is the #1 cable news network in America because they know their audience and they give them the news they want to hear



Just change the name of this article to "we really hate Auburn at ESPN and don't care if we have to write total garbage to prove it".



There is a lot of money to be made by writing negative stories about Auburn (true or not). Our audience wants to read dirt on Auburn so we give them what they want. This is not NPR. ESPN is a business and we have to do what is best for our bottom line.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/conversations/_/id/9135194/twelve-auburn-tigers-football-players-failed-synthetic-pot-tests

In the interest of fairness, there is always the caveat that the real Mark Schlabach didn't post those responses. The shoe fits though.

kaldaniels
04-06-2013, 06:49 PM
Interesting nuggets in the comments section of the ESPN spice story. Readers were slagging on the habit that ESPN seems to have for writing negative stories about Auburn especially given this one is such a brazen, thouroughly discredited hack job.

BTW, has anyone wondered why there was zero commment about Alabama football and spice in that article? Wouldn't how they dealt with the situation be useful context?

Anyway, Mark Schlabach, an ESPN columnist, responded but his answers might surprise some who consider ESPN trustworthy. ESPN has zero credibility when it comes to Auburn and Mark Schlabach pretty much admits it:













http://espn.go.com/ncf/conversations/_/id/9135194/twelve-auburn-tigers-football-players-failed-synthetic-pot-tests

In the interest of fairness, there is always the caveat that the real Mark Schlabach didn't post those responses. The shoe fits though.

It might be best if that post is seriously edited or even deleted. That way fools like me aren't almost to the end of it thinking that the real Mark S. is going to be fired for those horrible responses.

jojo
04-06-2013, 09:33 PM
It might be best if that post is seriously edited or even deleted. That way fools like me aren't almost to the end of it thinking that the real Mark S. is going to be fired for those horrible responses.

Unless ESPN indicates otherwise, that's the real Mark Schlabach.

kaldaniels
04-07-2013, 03:23 PM
Unless ESPN indicates otherwise, that's the real Mark Schlabach.

I read your last sentence as saying to be warned that the real Mark did not write those.

Perhaps there should have been a "might not have" in that sentence of yours. I read it as fact. That's where I was coming from.

jojo
04-07-2013, 03:29 PM
I read your last sentence as saying to be warned that the real Mark did not write those.

Perhaps there should have been a "might not have" in that sentence of yours. I read it as fact. That's where I was coming from.

The more I think about it, it's harder and harder to believe that the real Mark wrote those.

kaldaniels
04-07-2013, 03:32 PM
The more I think about it, it's harder and harder to believe that the real Mark wrote those.

Agreed.

jojo
04-08-2013, 03:06 PM
http://www.oanow.com/news/article_5b967954-a05c-11e2-a3c1-0019bb30f31a.html


Former AU player McNeil withdraws not guilty plea, sentenced

Looks like he'll get 3 year in the pen and three years probation....

Some guys just seem like they're headed for trouble. I'm still scratching my head over McNeil being involved in armed robbery-just didn't see that one coming.

jojo
04-08-2013, 03:16 PM
http://www.sbnation.com/2013/4/8/4196778/auburn-football-scandal-espn-selena-roberts


10 claims made against Auburn football last week that don't look so solid right now

dabvu2498
04-08-2013, 05:25 PM
http://www.sbnation.com/2013/4/8/4196778/auburn-football-scandal-espn-selena-roberts

The timing on this is certainly odd, to say the least. An article gets published proclaiming his innocence then a week later, he's pleading guilty. Either he's a complete sham or there's something even worse going on here that I won't even discuss. Probably, he's just a total con man.

jojo
04-08-2013, 11:29 PM
The timing on this is certainly odd, to say the least. An article gets published proclaiming his innocence then a week later, he's pleading guilty. Either he's a complete sham or there's something even worse going on here that I won't even discuss. Probably, he's just a total con man.

His buddy, Goodwin got 15 yrs and McNeil's defense wasn't any better given the facts the DA has to work with.... Basically he's vacillated between it was just a prank to its Auburn's fault.

I think he was naive and didnt think things through until after he was in the back of a cop car. But I'm left wondering if it was McNeil's lawyer who used Roberts or Roberts who used McNeil. Either way, Roberts has taken a big hit to her credibility.

jojo
04-09-2013, 08:29 AM
http://www.oanow.com/sports/college/auburn/football/article_9573d178-a082-11e2-93d6-0019bb30f31a.html


EYE ON THE TIGERS: Long list of holes in reports alleging Auburn of wrongdoing

BillDoran
04-17-2013, 10:55 PM
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2833816&postcount=22


Make a list and lets actually discuss specifics.... you can't come close to anything resembling a myriad by the way.

And there is absolutely nothing condescending about calling a spade a spade.

The condescending part is your tone.

I'm pretty sure you're familiar with Selena Roberts' story and the claims of Stanley McClover. Won't even get into Cecil. Not sure how you counter former players' accusations, especially in unrelated stories, years apart. Surely, someone who makes arguments about others' logical consistency will shy away from using a hometown news story as your evidence.

WDE
04-17-2013, 11:35 PM
The Auburn allegations were almost laughable. Pathetic, yet it still gives us a black eye in the way people perceive us. Whatever, let's get this Gus Bus rollin.

jojo
04-17-2013, 11:40 PM
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2833816&postcount=22



The condescending part is your tone.

I'm pretty sure you're familiar with Selena Roberts' story and the claims of Stanley McClover. Won't even get into Cecil. Not sure how you counter former players' accusations, especially in unrelated stories, years apart. Surely, someone who makes arguments about others' logical consistency will shy away from using a hometown news story as your evidence.

The former players themselves have countered Robert's story and her use of their quotes. Even McNeil will not corroborate her story on record and he was asked several times in the interim between her publishing the blog entry and his guilty plea for armed robbery.

Surely if you can name drop Roberts, you're very familiar with the strong backlash from those she attributed comments to. If not, just read this thread. Also equally as surely you're familiar with how the HBO story has been discredited. Seriously, it's like you've quit reading after the first paragraph of a story but are behaving like you've read the whole book. It's a bit puzzling for someone who is expression such a strongly held opinion.

BillDoran
04-18-2013, 12:09 PM
The former players themselves have countered Robert's story and her use of their quotes. Even McNeil will not corroborate her story on record and he was asked several times in the interim between her publishing the blog entry and his guilty plea for armed robbery.

Surely if you can name drop Roberts, you're very familiar with the strong backlash from those she attributed comments to. If not, just read this thread. Also equally as surely you're familiar with how the HBO story has been discredited. Seriously, it's like you've quit reading after the first paragraph of a story but are behaving like you've read the whole book. It's a bit puzzling for someone who is expression such a strongly held opinion.

I am in no way saying that Auburn is guilty. I am asking you to consider the situation objectively, and not be astonished and haughty each time someone suggests Auburn football has been less than clean. Questionable behavior is rampant in college athletics, and has been demonstrably so for decades. There are numerous independent reports (whether they be recanted or not) suggesting the Auburn program was unscrupulous. For most, this preponderance of evidence taken with the history of NCAA athletics leads to the likelihood of Auburn being dirty.

From the inside, you see the scrutiny as a witchhunt. From the outside, it looks like a trend, likely pointing to some sort of guilt. You and all Auburn fans are welcome to act indignantly and question this unwarranted criticism, but don't be surprised given recent history, especially considering the repeated reports emanating from Auburn, that when we see smoke, we think fire.

jojo
04-18-2013, 12:18 PM
I am in no way saying that Auburn is guilty. I am asking you to consider the situation objectively, and not be astonished and haughty each time someone suggests Auburn football has been less than clean.

I have examined the issue objectively. I am now asking you to quit focusing upon me and start focusing upon the facts of the issue. But ya, if you want to argue that Auburn is dirty, show us your work. Otherwise don;t be surprised when someone challenges your opinion.



Questionable behavior is rampant in college athletics, and has been demonstrably so for decades. There are numerous independent reports (whether they be recanted or not) suggesting the Auburn program was unscrupulous. For most, this preponderance of evidence taken with the history of NCAA athletics leads to the likelihood of Auburn being dirty.

The preponderance of the evidence says Auburn is clean. The NCAA addressed this issue specifically. Your argument ignores the most important evidence and gives tremendous weight to things that have either been discredited of contradict established fact.


From the inside, you see the scrutiny as a witchhunt. From the outside, it looks like a trend, likely pointing to some sort of guilt.

No. I see arguments such as these to be baseless. Again-show your proof. Youre basically hand waving and speaking in very broud generalities then reaching a very specific conclusion. It's not surprising that facts poke holes in it.


You and all Auburn fans are welcome to act indignantly and question this unwarranted criticism, but don't be surprised given recent history, especially considering the repeated reports emanating from Auburn, that when we see smoke, we think fire.

And again dont label others as condescending when they criticize your opinion for a lack of support.

BillDoran
04-18-2013, 12:53 PM
The preponderance of the evidence says Auburn is clean. The NCAA addressed this issue specifically. Your argument ignores the most important evidence and gives tremendous weight to things that have either been discredited of contradict established fact.

Wrong. Evidence exists outside of the NCAA investigation. In fact, the NCAA may be the worst arbiter of guilt.

Speaking of hand-waving. Facts include two separate incidents of players admitting to illegal activities to two legitimate reporting outfits. I do not care that these players are not willing to corroborate this information after initial publication. I can only imagine the outside pressure they experience after voicing this unpopular account. How do you explain to yourself that those closest to the situation, multiple ex-players, have admitted to wrongdoing?

jojo
04-18-2013, 02:29 PM
Wrong. Evidence exists outside of the NCAA investigation. In fact, the NCAA may be the worst arbiter of guilt.

Speaking of hand-waving. Facts include two separate incidents of players admitting to illegal activities to two legitimate reporting outfits. I do not care that these players are not willing to corroborate this information after initial publication. I can only imagine the outside pressure they experience after voicing this unpopular account. How do you explain to yourself that those closest to the situation, multiple ex-players, have admitted to wrongdoing?

Are you suggesting Selena Robert's blog has more weight than an NCAA investigation?

jojo
04-18-2013, 02:33 PM
How do you explain to yourself that those closest to the situation, multiple ex-players, have admitted to wrongdoing?

Pretty easily. They didn't admit wrong doing. You really need to explain why one should treat what Selena Roberts attributed to a player but is unwilling to verify with tapes as absolute fact while one should utterly discount a direct quote by the player to reporters.

It's a position that clearly explains the trouble youre having. It's worse than treating everything as equal. You're treating the less reliable as the end all.

BillDoran
04-18-2013, 02:39 PM
Are you suggesting Selena Robert's blog has more weight than an NCAA investigation?

I'm suggesting Selena Roberts is a professional journalist who has written for credible publications like the New York Times and Sports Illustrated. Did she jump the gun on the Duke lacrosse story? Yep. Does that discount her ability to ably report and the fact that multiple players discussed improprieties with her? Nope. Taken in combination with the Real Sports revelations (not to mention Cecil), and you have reason to believe the Auburn football program to have been dirty.

Does it prove it without a doubt (and this, along with the non-findings of the laughably incompetent NCAA, seems to be your case)? Again, nope. But it does suggest, to those willing to consider the possibility (i.e. not you), that the program has been less than scrupulous.

jojo
04-18-2013, 02:50 PM
I'm suggesting Selena Roberts is a professional journalist who has written for credible publications like the New York Times and Sports Illustrated. Did she jump the gun on the Duke lacrosse story? Yep. Does that discount her ability to ably report and the fact that multiple players discussed improprieties with her? Nope. Taken in combination with the Real Sports revelations (not to mention Cecil), and you have reason to believe the Auburn football program to have been dirty.

Does it prove it without a doubt (and this, along with the non-findings of the laughably incompetent NCAA, seems to be your case)? Again, nope. But it does suggest, to those willing to consider the possibility (i.e. not you), that the program has been less than scrupulous.

Selena Roberts has a history of hack jobs (how has a career trajectory of matriculating from credible organisations down to now a blog that doesn't apparently have the ability to maintain advertising with her latest hack job)and this is especially so with her past treatment of the Auburn football program which she blames for the reorganization of the journalism department at Auburn. Her latest story has been demonstratably proven innacurrate on multiple fronts factually, and this is even before one entertains her thesis that the justice system and local government are aligned with Auburn University to enrich the athletic department and now seeks to defame McNeil so that people won't talk about Cam.

Quit calling me biased especially given the sources you're using to buffet your argument. There isn't a single hint of objectivity in your position and its the sources you choose to treat as reliable that indicate this.

BillDoran
04-18-2013, 02:59 PM
Pretty easily. They didn't admit wrong doing. You really need to explain why one should treat what Selena Roberts attributed to a player but is unwilling to verify with tapes as absolute fact while one should utterly discount a direct quote by the player to reporters.

It's a position that clearly explains the trouble youre having. It's worse than treating everything as equal. You're treating the less reliable as the end all.

It's the confluence of events, jojo. The numerous independent reports of wrongdoing. Maybe one report is the result of some bitter reporter looking to reestablish his name. But logic would dictate that most see this series of events, especially in light of the corrupt environment of college athletics, as likelihood of wrongdoing.

BillDoran
04-18-2013, 03:09 PM
Selena Roberts has a history of hack jobs (how has a career trajectory of matriculating from credible organisations down to now a blog that doesn't apparently have the ability to maintain advertising with her latest hack job)and this is especially so with her past treatment of the Auburn football program which she blames for the reorganization of the journalism department at Auburn. Her latest story has been demonstratably proven innacurrate on multiple fronts factually, and this is even before one entertains her thesis that the justice system and local government are aligned with Auburn University to enrich the athletic department and now seeks to defame McNeil so that people won't talk about Cam.

Quit calling me biased especially given the sources you're using to buffet your argument. There isn't a single hint of objectivity in your position and its the sources you choose to treat as reliable that indicate this.

Fine, you're not biased, you're willfully ignorant. If you can't at least entertain others' suspicion, carry on with your head in the sand. Do know that you're not some righteous crusader highlighting others' biases, demanding rigorous journalism, but closer to some conspiracy-theorist clinging to some last hope (ALL THE REPORTS ARE WRONG, IT'S A WITCHHUNT!) shrouded in indigence.

At this point it isn't about Auburn and a guilty football program. It's about you clutching so tightly to your beliefs that you can't even consider others'. You're welcome to do that.

jojo
04-18-2013, 03:14 PM
It's the confluence of events, jojo. The numerous independent reports of wrongdoing. Maybe one report is the result of some bitter reporter looking to reestablish his name. But logic would dictate that most see this series of events, especially in light of the corrupt environment of college athletics, as likelihood of wrongdoing.

There is no credible confluence of events to support the assertion that there is a pay for play system in place at Auburn University.

In fact, there is the results of an extension investigation into this very question to support the assertion that there isn't a pay for play system in place at Auburn University.

Actually the Cam situation would suggest that it isn't that common for a pay for play system to be in place at major football programs. Cecil failed miserably with MSU and the NCAA was forced to announce there was no evidence of such a system at Auburn.

Really? Major football programs aren't paying Cam Newton-they're hemmorhaging dollars on the likes of players like McNeil?

You've got a bias that 1) college sports is hopelessly corrupt, and 2) NCAA investigations are untrustworthy. You accept as truth any report that validates those biases. That doesn't sound like objectivity.

Todd Gack
04-18-2013, 03:17 PM
There is no credible confluence of events to support the assertion that there is a pay for play system in place at Auburn University.

In fact, there is the results of an extension investigation into this very question to support the assertion that there isn't a pay for play system in place at Auburn University.

Actually the Cam situation would suggest that it isn't that common for a pay for play system to be in place at major football programs. Cecil failed miserably with MSU and the NCAA was forced to announce there was no evidence of such a system at Auburn.

Really? Major football programs aren't paying Cam Newton-they're hemmorhaging dollars on the likes of players like McNeil?

You've got a bias that 1) college sports is hopelessly corrupt, and 2) NCAA investigations are untrustworthy. You accept as truth any report that validates those biases. That doesn't sound like objectivity.

You've must've missed the Miami investigation.

jojo
04-18-2013, 03:24 PM
You've must've missed the Miami investigation.

So if players do get paid, the NCAA finds it?

bucksfan2
04-18-2013, 03:26 PM
I was listening to Cowherd the other day and he said he had it on record from two sources, one a coach, that Auburn is the dirtiest program in the SEC. He also said that one of the things that Saben was tasked with when he was hired by Alabama was to clean the program up. When it comes to Cowherd there are things he is intune with and college football is one of them.

jojo
04-18-2013, 04:50 PM
I was listening to Cowherd the other day and he said he had it on record from two sources, one a coach, that Auburn is the dirtiest program in the SEC. He also said that one of the things that Saben was tasked with when he was hired by Alabama was to clean the program up. When it comes to Cowherd there are things he is intune with and college football is one of them.

Clearly not so much with the SEC especially if he is buds wth Bowden.

jojo
04-19-2013, 07:36 PM
Fine, you're not biased, you're willfully ignorant. If you can't at least entertain others' suspicion, carry on with your head in the sand. Do know that you're not some righteous crusader highlighting others' biases, demanding rigorous journalism, but closer to some conspiracy-theorist clinging to some last hope (ALL THE REPORTS ARE WRONG, IT'S A WITCHHUNT!) shrouded in indigence.

At this point it isn't about Auburn and a guilty football program. It's about you clutching so tightly to your beliefs that you can't even consider others'. You're welcome to do that.

Again, if you want to claim I'm biased and unwilling to entertain facts, then first try presenting some facts. I've asked you to do so (actually point to some specific fact that can be discussed on its merits) several times. Instead you've decided to beat on strawmen (you're the only one talking about witch hunts) and call me names.

You can express your opinions all you want but you do not have the right to post them unchallenged. If that upsets you, then possibly redszone isn't the place for you.

You think Auburn is dirty-prove it. But if Selena Roberts and an HBO report (that has been investigated and dismissed by the NCAA) is all you got, you really don't have the juice to call those who disagree with you names.

dabvu2498
04-19-2013, 08:01 PM
Personally, I'm glad the UT athletic department is not in heavy debt.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/tennessee-uses-drone-film-practice-010452430--ncaaf.html

(And that one of their largest boosters is being investigated by the IRS and FBI.)

jojo
04-22-2013, 05:29 PM
A WORD FROM JAY JACOBS:


April 22, 2013

Dear Auburn Family,

In response to an article published by Roopstigo.com earlier this month, we have reviewed the allegations of academic fraud made in the story. Even though many of the sources interviewed for the article criticized the reporter for misquoting or misrepresenting them as soon as the story appeared, the allegations were serious enough to prompt an internal review.

The attached document illustrates that there are numerous inaccuracies and misrepresentations in the story.

The most serious allegation is the claim that academic fraud occurred prior to the 2011 BCS National Championship game. Auburn Athletics and Auburn University Internal Auditing have completed independent reviews of the academic allegations. There is no evidence academic fraud occurred.

The article alleges improper grade changes took place to make nine student-athletes eligible for the 2011 BCS National Championship Game. That is false. In fact, six players were academically ineligible for the BCS National Championship game, and none of them made the trip to Arizona with the team.

The article also states that former football student-athlete Michael Dyer was academically ineligible prior to the BCS National Championship game. That is also false. Mr. Dyer was never in danger of academic ineligibility. In fact, he passed 15 hours during the fall of 2010 (nine more than required by the NCAA) and had a 2.8 GPA at the end of the fall semester. Mr. Dyer actually passed a combined 24 hours in the summer and fall semesters.

The article also implies that an academic counselor who works with the athletic department kept Mike McNeil eligible by changing his grade in a course from an F to a C. The article fails to point out that the professor changed Mr. McNeil's grade after documented reasons were provided, including excused absences from classes for medical reasons. The independent review by Auburn University Internal Auditing showed that all institutional policies regarding grade changes for excused absences were followed.

It is also worth noting that while Mr. McNeil also alleges that former Auburn assistant coach Will Muschamp paid him during the 2007 season, Coach Muschamp immediately and publicly denied the allegations, as was widely reported throughout the media.

The article also claims that Mr. McNeil recalls receiving $500 cash to entertain a former prospect, Dre Kirkpatrick, while Mr. Kirkpatrick was on an official visit to Auburn. Mr. Kirkpatrick never took an official visit to Auburn. Mr. Kirkpatrick has since publicly stated that no one at Auburn gave him money or spent money on him during unofficial visits to our campus.

As Auburn's Athletics Director, it's my job-no matter how proud I am of Auburn- to carefully review charges made against our program when warranted.

As the facts demonstrate, the article is clearly flawed. I want you to know that I will always act on the basis of facts. I will continue to fight for Auburn University, and I will continue to defend this great institution against such attacks. One more thing needs to be said about this story, which unfairly attacked former Head Coach Gene Chizik. Coach Chizik came to Auburn with a strong record of rules compliance and a reputation as a man of the utmost character and integrity. I have enormous respect for Coach Chizik, the way he ran his program throughout his entire tenure at Auburn and also the way he left-with dignity and class.

There is no credible confluence. Selena Roberts' blog simply can't be treated as a factually accurate source regarding Auburn athletics and this is ignoring her history and treating her latest "reporting" on it's own merits.

Sea Ray
04-22-2013, 05:42 PM
Personally, I'm glad the UT athletic department is not in heavy debt.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/tennessee-uses-drone-film-practice-010452430--ncaaf.html



Ahhh, you're just jealous Vandy didn't think of it first. Let's hope such technology adds up to wins. That's all I care about

Todd Gack
04-23-2013, 10:55 AM
A WORD FROM JAY JACOBS:



There is no credible confluence. Selena Roberts' blog simply can't be treated as a factually accurate source regarding Auburn athletics and this is ignoring her history and treating her latest "reporting" on it's own merits.


Cal is clean!

WVRed
04-24-2013, 03:38 PM
Cal is clean!

Cal was vetted and cleared by the NCAA, the same way Auburn has been. Despite biased reporters with agendas (Selena Roberts with Auburn, Pete Thamel and Pat Forde with Kentucky), the NCAA has not come down in any way fashion or form, unlike Ohio State. Don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house.

Jojo, being a UK fan I know how you feel. Feel free to go through the UK/NCAA tournament threads of the past and you will see countless posters villifying Calipari and Kentucky. The problem is, the more you fight it and the more you argue, you are defeating your own cause. People are going to believe whatever they want to believe and arguing is basically the equivalent of banging your head against a brick wall. Living in West Virginia and having family that's WVU fans, I've learned to just laugh it off and respond with sarcasm or point out their coaches misdeeds and watch them try to defend it. It works quite well. :)

Todd Gack
04-24-2013, 03:44 PM
Cal was vetted and cleared by the NCAA, the same way Auburn has been. Despite biased reporters with agendas (Selena Roberts with Auburn, Pete Thamel and Pat Forde with Kentucky), the NCAA has not come down in any way fashion or form, unlike Ohio State. Don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house.

Jojo, being a UK fan I know how you feel. Feel free to go through the UK/NCAA tournament threads of the past and you will see countless posters villifying Calipari and Kentucky. The problem is, the more you fight it and the more you argue, you are defeating your own cause. People are going to believe whatever they want to believe and arguing is basically the equivalent of banging your head against a brick wall. Living in West Virginia and having family that's WVU fans, I've learned to just laugh it off and respond with sarcasm or point out their coaches misdeeds and watch them try to defend it. It works quite well. :)


Nah, you're missing the point. Cal is 'clean' in the NCAA's eyes, but not the eye test. In fact, I love Cal and I root for Kentucky even though I'm a UC fan. I don't believe he's doing anything different than what other coaches are doing (recruiting-wise anyway).
I just think he plays the 'game' better.

With that said, the dude is shady. Those players at Kentucky aren't just getting a free education. ANd neither are they at IU or Ohio State or. . . etc. Cal is just really good at what he does.

jojo
04-24-2013, 06:06 PM
Cal was vetted and cleared by the NCAA, the same way Auburn has been. Despite biased reporters with agendas (Selena Roberts with Auburn, Pete Thamel and Pat Forde with Kentucky), the NCAA has not come down in any way fashion or form, unlike Ohio State. Don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house.

Jojo, being a UK fan I know how you feel. Feel free to go through the UK/NCAA tournament threads of the past and you will see countless posters villifying Calipari and Kentucky. The problem is, the more you fight it and the more you argue, you are defeating your own cause. People are going to believe whatever they want to believe and arguing is basically the equivalent of banging your head against a brick wall. Living in West Virginia and having family that's WVU fans, I've learned to just laugh it off and respond with sarcasm or point out their coaches misdeeds and watch them try to defend it. It works quite well. :)

Yep. The fact that there is no physical evidence for the existence of Bigfoot just proves how intelligent Bigfoots are.....

Meanwhile its been over two decades since the Auburn football has been meaningfully sanctioned.

jojo
05-13-2013, 06:22 PM
Apparently the Big 12 thinks it's better than the SEC and doesn't think the SEC deserves to be considered the premier conference in college football.

It's a tortured argument on its face but basically Stoops and company bases their argument on a single year-last year-where the SEC was noticeably down due to several bad years by traditionally strong programs.

It's a silly argument no matter how one cuts it but claiming you're better because Iowa State almost beat Kansas State last season is kinda of ridiculous especially since the Big 12's top two teams got trounced in their bowl games and the signature post season win for the conference was the Alamo Bowl versus Oregon State. And lets face it, while beating Iowa State would actually be a signature win for Charlie Weis, his offensive genius didn't exactly strike fear in the hearts of SEC defenses.


You’re listening to a lot of propaganda that gets fed out to you. You’re more than smart enough to figure it out. Again, you can look at the top two, three, four, five, six teams, and you can look at the bottom six, seven, eight, whatever they are. How well are they all doing?

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/67063/weis-stoops-has-a-point-in-sec-criticism

BTW, Stoops' team-the creme of the Big 12- lost by 28 in their bowl game, against, yep, you guessed it, a team from the SEC.

WVRed
05-14-2013, 05:13 PM
Apparently the Big 12 thinks it's better than the SEC and doesn't think the SEC deserves to be considered the premier conference in college football.

It's a tortured argument on its face but basically Stoops and company bases their argument on a single year-last year-where the SEC was noticeably down due to several bad years by traditionally strong programs.

It's a silly argument no matter how one cuts it but claiming you're better because Iowa State almost beat Kansas State last season is kinda of ridiculous especially since the Big 12's top two teams got trounced in their bowl games and the signature post season win for the conference was the Alamo Bowl versus Oregon State. And lets face it, while beating Iowa State would actually be a signature win for Charlie Weis, his offensive genius didn't exactly strike fear in the hearts of SEC defenses.



http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/67063/weis-stoops-has-a-point-in-sec-criticism

BTW, Stoops' team-the creme of the Big 12- lost by 28 in their bowl game, against, yep, you guessed it, a team from the SEC.

One year removed from the Big 12, no doubt.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

jojo
05-14-2013, 06:14 PM
One year removed from the Big 12, no doubt.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

If big 12 apologists somehow want to claim Texas A&M as "big 12" then they have to acknowledge their league was weakened by A&M's exodus and the gap between the Big 12 and SEC grew even wider by A&M joining the SEC.

Weis claims to be a numbers guy and argues that somehow analytics is on Stoops' side but really their comments only indicate a failing grade in history and fuzzy math.

KronoRed
05-14-2013, 09:11 PM
I think Bob has a point, the SEC would be much stronger if they dumped some dead weight, lets start with the M's, Missy,Missy St and Mizzo.

dabvu2498
05-14-2013, 09:22 PM
I think Bob has a point, the SEC would be much stronger if they dumped some dead weight, lets start with the M's, Missy,Missy St and Mizzo.

I would miss going to Oxford an awful lot.

jojo
05-14-2013, 09:24 PM
I would miss going to Oxford an awful lot.

Starkville, not so much.

dabvu2498
05-14-2013, 09:52 PM
Starkville, not so much.

Good spot for baseball. Otherwise...

Chip R
05-15-2013, 10:16 PM
Florida assistant Tim Davis calls Saban "the devil himself"

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9279799/nick-saban-alabama-crimson-tide-referred-devil-florida-gators-assistant-tim-davis

Sea Ray
05-15-2013, 10:31 PM
I think Bob has a point, the SEC would be much stronger if they dumped some dead weight, lets start with the M's, Missy,Missy St and Mizzo.

By definition every conference has to have bottomfeeders but the SEC bottom is better than any other. Have you checked the recruits from a few months ago? Ole Miss was #10 in the country snagging 4 top 100 players, the same number as Mich and Ohio St.

http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=9&c=14&yr=2013

Most conferences would beg for such a bottomfeeder

Joseph
05-15-2013, 10:46 PM
Nah, you're missing the point. Cal is 'clean' in the NCAA's eyes, but not the eye test. In fact, I love Cal and I root for Kentucky even though I'm a UC fan. I don't believe he's doing anything different than what other coaches are doing (recruiting-wise anyway).
I just think he plays the 'game' better.

With that said, the dude is shady. Those players at Kentucky aren't just getting a free education. ANd neither are they at IU or Ohio State or. . . etc. Cal is just really good at what he does.

Isn't it then unfair to single out Cal at all because you are saying more or less that other/all coaches are doing it too?

KronoRed
05-15-2013, 11:56 PM
Florida assistant Tim Davis calls Saban "the devil himself"

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9279799/nick-saban-alabama-crimson-tide-referred-devil-florida-gators-assistant-tim-davis

These guys need to get with the times, anything they say to a bunch of boosters is no longer off the record.

Slyder
05-16-2013, 01:00 PM
By definition every conference has to have bottomfeeders but the SEC bottom is better than any other. Have you checked the recruits from a few months ago? Ole Miss was #10 in the country snagging 4 top 100 players, the same number as Mich and Ohio St.

http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=9&c=14&yr=2013

Most conferences would beg for such a bottomfeeder

Before last year when they got somewhat lucky what did Notre Dame do with all their top 10 recruiting classes?

Sea Ray
05-16-2013, 01:12 PM
Before last year when they got somewhat lucky what did Notre Dame do with all their top 10 recruiting classes?

Fine. Throw out last year. Any conference would kill to be so strong that Notre Dame would be considered one of its weaklings. Your example makes my point beautifully

Slyder
05-16-2013, 01:37 PM
Fine. Throw out last year. Any conference would kill to be so strong that Notre Dame would be considered one of its weaklings. Your example makes my point beautifully

My point is certain schools are given "benefit of the doubt". I've lost track of the number of times that WVU will get a recruit and he automatically losses a star, meanwhile they take a look at a guy being looked at by (Insert SEC/ND/USC/etc school) and automatically gains a star because they must know something the rest of us dont. Recruiting and stars is a stupid way to judge strength.

In the SEC how many of the "big dogs" actually play? Look at the bottom of the SEC its garbage elevated because they have SEC on their helmets. The SEC has a pretty good setup with as many teams as they have, they're almost guaranteed at least 2 teams go at least 7-1 in conference because the big 5ish don't play everyone else, meanwhile the Big 12 you can only get 1 team undefeated, 1 team with 1 loss (if everything holds serve). Its why you see so many teams so high.

The Big 12 is foolish IMO by not expanding to at least 12 last year. Its becoming more and more about getting as many high ranked teams as possible and you are limited in how many you can get by playing everyone else.

dabvu2498
05-16-2013, 01:45 PM
Actually, if there are 2 undefeated teams in the SEC, they'll play each other in the SEC Championship game. And one of them will no longer be undefeated.

jojo
05-16-2013, 01:55 PM
My point is certain schools are given "benefit of the doubt". I've lost track of the number of times that WVU will get a recruit and he automatically losses a star, meanwhile they take a look at a guy being looked at by (Insert SEC/ND/USC/etc school) and automatically gains a star because they must know something the rest of us dont. Recruiting and stars is a stupid way to judge strength.

In the SEC how many of the "big dogs" actually play? Look at the bottom of the SEC its garbage elevated because they have SEC on their helmets. The SEC has a pretty good setup with as many teams as they have, they're almost guaranteed at least 2 teams go at least 7-1 in conference because the big 5ish don't play everyone else, meanwhile the Big 12 you can only get 1 team undefeated, 1 team with 1 loss (if everything holds serve). Its why you see so many teams so high.

The Big 12 is foolish IMO by not expanding to at least 12 last year. Its becoming more and more about getting as many high ranked teams as possible and you are limited in how many you can get by playing everyone else.

Who is the perennial garbage that at the bottom of the SEC used as food for SEC elite? I just want to make sure we're discussing the same thing.

dabvu2498
05-16-2013, 01:56 PM
These guys need to get with the times, anything they say to a bunch of boosters is no longer off the record.

I like it, personally. They're just saying what everyone else already thinks.

Slyder
05-16-2013, 02:23 PM
Actually, if there are 2 undefeated teams in the SEC, they'll play each other in the SEC Championship game. And one of them will no longer be undefeated.

I said 7-1. This past year SEC had 3 teams at 7-1 and 6 at 6-2 or better. That leads to a cramming of the higher levels fo the top 25, meanwhile the Big can't approach those kind of numbers unless you get a ridiculous amount of stupid stuff to happen.

As for garbage:
Lets start with the blue clad wildcats. When was the last time Kentucky matter? Hal Mumme and Tim Couch?

Auburn outside of 1 year with Cam Newton and probation when have they really mattered? By matter I mean threaten the cream of the SEC (Bama, Fla)

Vanderbilt spikes but most years theyre closer to the bottom than the top.

The M's Missouri, Mississippi, and Miss State.

Thats almost half the league right there. Whether aTm stays at the top or sinks back will be seen.

jojo
05-16-2013, 03:10 PM
I said 7-1. This past year SEC had 3 teams at 7-1 and 6 at 6-2 or better. That leads to a cramming of the higher levels fo the top 25, meanwhile the Big can't approach those kind of numbers unless you get a ridiculous amount of stupid stuff to happen.

As for garbage:
Lets start with the blue clad wildcats. When was the last time Kentucky matter? Hal Mumme and Tim Couch?

Auburn outside of 1 year with Cam Newton and probation when have they really mattered? By matter I mean threaten the cream of the SEC (Bama, Fla)

Vanderbilt spikes but most years theyre closer to the bottom than the top.

The M's Missouri, Mississippi, and Miss State.

Thats almost half the league right there. Whether aTm stays at the top or sinks back will be seen.

Alright, I think it's safe to assume you just don't know very much about the SEC.

Since 1982 (i.e. modern SEC footaball post Bear Bryant-trust me this isn't an arbitrary demarcation in SEC thinking), Auburn has won 6 SEC championships and Bama has won 5 (Florida has won 8; LSU has won 6, Tennessee has won 4). Auburn has had 3 undefeated seasons since a true SEC championship game was organized with the inclusion of Arkansas and South Carolina into the SEC while Alabama has had just 2 undefeated seasons. Auburn has a 16-14 record head to head against Bama since Bear retired (11-10 since the championship game era). Since 1992, Bama has vacated 29 wins. Auburn has vacated 0. Since 1982, of SEC teams, only Florida and Georgia have better winning percentages than Auburn.


So outside of 1 year with Cam Newton and probation when has Auburn really mattered, i.e threatened the "cream" of the SEC (Bama, Fla)? A better question is when hasn't Auburn been a consistent threat.... Auburn rightfully is considered the "creme" of the modern SEC, e.g. Alabama, Auburn, Florida, LSU, and Tennesse.

BTW, Auburn football hasn't had a major sanction in over 20 years.

WMR
05-16-2013, 04:22 PM
UK beat LSU the season they won the national championship and demolished OSU.

Slyder
05-17-2013, 12:12 PM
I forgot about 2004. But of those 6 the other 4 were even before they went on probation! So you want to talk about a team that has had 2 spike years in 20 as creme of the crop? Go ahead. Was garbage too strong a term? Definately but to say they are in the same conversation as Florida and Bama in the last 20 years is a joke.

Slyder
05-17-2013, 12:12 PM
I forgot about 2004. But of those 6 the other 4 were even before they went on probation! So you want to talk about a team that has had 2 championships in 20 as creme of the crop? Go ahead. Was garbage too strong a term? Definately.

jojo
05-17-2013, 12:29 PM
I forgot about 2004. But of those 6 the other 4 were even before they went on probation! So you want to talk about a team that has had 2 spike years in 20 as creme of the crop? Go ahead. Was garbage too strong a term? Definately but to say they are in the same conversation as Florida and Bama in the last 20 years is a joke.

It's a joke only if you refuse to accept facts and prefer a narrative that isn't rooted in objective reality. Seriously, you have to ignore way to much to proclaim what you're proclaiming. It's hurting your credibility concerning your view of the SEC.

Slyder
05-17-2013, 12:55 PM
It's a joke only if you refuse to accept facts and prefer a narrative that isn't rooted in objective reality. Seriously, you have to ignore way to much to proclaim what you're proclaiming. It's hurting your credibility concerning your view of the SEC.

Heres how I break it down:

TBD:
Missouri
Texas A&M

They're new to the game, the return on aTm is high right now. Can they build on it or return to where they were in the Big 12 which was usually toward the middle to upper middle of the conference.

*These are in no particular order*
Creme:
Florida
Alabama
LSU

Second Tier:
Tennessee
Auburn (I apologize doing some reading I thought they had a rougher go after the sanctions in the 90s *See Miami*)
Georgia

Third Tier:
South Carolina
Arkansas

Both joined together in 91 and had some successes at various times.

Bottom:
Vanderbilt
Kentucky
Ole Miss
Miss State

Boston Red
05-17-2013, 01:03 PM
30% of the Big "XII" is Iowa State, Kansas and Baylor, and you want to talk about the SEC's garbage?!? Huh?

jojo
05-17-2013, 01:15 PM
Heres how I break it down:

TBD:
Missouri
Texas A&M

They're new to the game, the return on aTm is high right now. Can they build on it or return to where they were in the Big 12 which was usually toward the middle to upper middle of the conference.

*These are in no particular order*
Creme:
Florida
Alabama
LSU

Second Tier:
Tennessee
Auburn (I apologize doing some reading I thought they had a rougher go after the sanctions in the 90s *See Miami*)
Georgia

Third Tier:
South Carolina
Arkansas

Both joined together in 91 and had some successes at various times.

Bottom:
Vanderbilt
Kentucky
Ole Miss
Miss State

I think you watch too much ESPN.

The programs you're describing as "second tier" are ranked 9th, 13th and 16th all-time based upon winning percentage. There are only two Big 12 teams ranked higher than Auburn all-time.

If you just look at the last 30 years, Georgia is ranked 9th, Auburn 10th and Tennessee 12th in Div 1A based upon winning percentage. Oklahoma is the only Big 12 team to crack the top 10 (Texas comes in at 11th).

So really what you're doing without even realizing it, is conceding that the SEC is traditionally much more dominant than the Big 12.

Slyder
05-17-2013, 01:47 PM
So really what you're doing without even realizing it, is conceding that the SEC is traditionally much more dominant than the Big 12.

I never said tradition wise they weren't I said they had a nice setup where they can cram as many of the good teams into the top 25 as possible because they don't face everyone else and that there is a glass ceiling in the Big 12 because they do play everyone. You get 6 teams at 6-2 and better almost every year and one of my biggest complaints about the Big 12. The Big 12 has only been around since the 90s. If you wanted to include the SWC/Big 8 history with schools no longer there (Nebraska, Colorado, SMU, Arkansas, etc) you might be able to make an interesting discussion.

But in its current form its Texas, Oklahoma, with KState and OK State nipping at the heels the last few years. What happens to KState when Snyder retires? Texas and Oklahoma cannot compare with what Alabama has done recently and what Florida did with Spurrier and Meyer. Can WVU and TCU get back to where they were after both struggled in their first year as Big 12 members.

jmac
05-30-2013, 01:12 AM
As a UK fan, I like this :

SEC football coaches voted 13-1 to keep the conference schedule at 8 games.

KronoRed
05-30-2013, 01:43 AM
That's nice, but if the conference really wants 9 games the coaches won't have a say, nor should they.

Chip R
05-30-2013, 04:11 PM
Gordon Gee opens mouth, inserts foot.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/apnewsbreak-osu-head-jabs-notre-163627789--spt.html

Chip R
05-30-2013, 04:11 PM
Gordon Gee opens mouth, inserts foot.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/apnewsbreak-osu-head-jabs-notre-163627789--spt.html

dabvu2498
05-30-2013, 04:12 PM
Les Miles went to a Big 10 school.

RedsBaron
05-30-2013, 10:19 PM
Gordon Gee opens mouth, inserts foot.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/apnewsbreak-osu-head-jabs-notre-163627789--spt.html

If Gee had made those comments about certain religious or ethnic groups he would be fired.

WVRed
05-30-2013, 11:33 PM
Simply put, the greatest rebuttal ever from Drew Franklin at Kentucky Sports Radio:


Dear Dr. Gee,

Some comments you made regarding the University of Kentucky and our SEC brethren were brought to our attention today in a report from the Associated Press. According to a recording obtained by the AP, you said the Big Ten will never consider adding Kentucky because the conference values academic integrity. ”You tell the SEC when they can learn to read and write, then they can figure out what we’re doing,” you said. You did. You said that.
While I admire your commitment to academic achievement and understand the skepticism you have regarding the University of Kentucky’s academia, I encourage you to take any Big Ten invitation you may have, turn that sum-***** sideways, and stick it straight up your bow tie-wearing ass. You got that, Gordo?
You see, down here in SEC country, we value things that you Big Tenners just can’t comprehend. We value excellence. We value seven consecutive BCS national championships. Seven. We value three of the last four Heisman trophy winners. We value paying for our tattoos, not bartering for ink with autographed jerseys and bowl rings. We value bowl eligibility. We value not tailgating in Iowa, Wisconsin and Nebraska. We value The Grove. We really, really, really value The Grove.
In the SEC, we value speed and athleticism on the football field. We value scoring more than 50 points in basketball. We value Senior Night, and not cutting down the nets when we lose. We value the Sweet 16, but strive to get past it. We value the first three rounds of the NFL draft, and the first pick in the NBA. We value SEC basketball games at Auburn. (We don’t really value basketball games at Auburn.)
We value the Tennessee Volunteers, the Georgia Bulldogs and Marshall Henderson’s drug problem. We value Alabama football, Kentucky basketball and Steve Spurrier being Steve Spurrier. We value the Vanderbilt Commodores, because they’re going pro in something other than sports. We value Arkansas and its volleyball program. We value motorcycles.
We value Diet Dr. Pepper. We value Golden Flake potato chips. We value Texas Pete hot sauce with a Sunkist chaser. We value Barry Booker, Dave Baker and pretending to know what the hell Jimmy Dykes is talking about. We value counting to 14 and knowing it’s more than 10. We value not calling ourselves Legends or Leaders. We value our youth. We don’t shower with them. We value Penn State Jokes.
We value the finest collection of women the world has ever seen. We value sundresses in the spring and summer. And in the fall. And in the winter. We value Purdue being full of dudes and Wisconsin being jealous. We value your corn, and make our bourbon with it.
We value being better than the Big 10. We value how much you value Christian Watford’s shot and the pass interference call in the 2003 Fiesta Bowl. We value Jadeveon Clowney and the remains of Vincent Smith he left behind. We value Nick Saban’s deal with the devil and John Calipari’s approach to the one-and-done. We value Urban Meyer, circa 2008. We value excellence. I said that? I’ll say it again. We value excellence.
My point is, Dr. Gee, you can keep your Big Ten and its academic integrity. Us illiterate folk are doing just fine down here in the south.

Sincerely,
Big Blue Nation, on behalf of the SEC

P.S.
Good luck with those damn Catholics.

WVRed
05-31-2013, 12:22 AM
Les Miles went to a Big 10 school.

And had two opportunities to go back to coach there and didn't.

WMR
05-31-2013, 03:42 AM
What do OSU fans think about Gordon Gee?

LoganBuck
05-31-2013, 09:36 AM
Notre Dame has been a problem for college sports for years. Had they not used the Big East, and joined as a full member years ago, conferences would look much different today.

SEC allowing oversigning is a joke. It hurts student athletes and makes a mockery of academics.

LoganBuck
05-31-2013, 09:37 AM
Notre Dame has been a problem for college sports for years. Had they not used the Big East, and joined as a full member years ago, conferences would look much different today.

SEC allowing oversigning is a joke. It hurts student athletes and makes a mockery of academics.

jojo
05-31-2013, 10:50 AM
SEC teams can only sign 25 players with restrictive exceptions in the event a previous signing class was not filled.

LoganBuck
05-31-2013, 11:02 AM
SEC teams can only sign 25 players with restrictive exceptions in the event a previous signing class was not filled.

Since.....

RiverRat13
05-31-2013, 11:04 AM
What do OSU fans think about Gordon Gee?

I think most are ready for him to stop talking sports in public. But as far as the university goes, it all comes down to money. Gee is possibly the best fundraiser in the country.

IslandRed
05-31-2013, 11:13 AM
Simply put, the greatest rebuttal ever from Drew Franklin at Kentucky Sports Radio:

Since that passage translated to "you're damn straight we value excellence in athletics more than academics," is that a rebuttal or a co-sign? :p

Never been a Gee fan, though. I thought Dan Wetzel summed it up well in an article yesterday:

It would be easy for the rest of the country to brush of old E. Gordon as just a guy in Ohio with a lack of self-awareness who either entertains them or infuriates them or is just worth ignoring. How much is your life influenced by some far-off school president?

The problem is he's spent his career moonlighting as one of the chief busybodies and reformers of the NCAA. ...

E. Gordon Gee is the NCAA: tone deaf, clumsy, situationally arrogant and obsessed with bringing in more and more money (and making sure Delany, or anyone else, doesn't then get their paws on it).

jojo
05-31-2013, 11:19 AM
Since.....

Since 2011.

jojo
06-06-2013, 08:26 PM
Looks like MSU will be getting a very special letter from the NCAA tomorrow morning.

jojo
06-07-2013, 06:33 PM
I wonder if big ten fans see the actual infractions and the penalties and wonder what the heck is going on here?

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9352487/mississippi-state-bulldogs-put-probation-ncaa

I think the NCAA basically just told MSU to start paying players because the penalty handed out is pretty light IMHO.

jojo
06-07-2013, 06:33 PM
I wonder if big ten fans see the actual infractions and the penalties and wonder what the heck is going on here?

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9352487/mississippi-state-bulldogs-put-probation-ncaa

I think the NCAA basically just told MSU to start paying players because the penalty handed out is pretty light IMHO.

jojo
06-29-2013, 10:09 AM
There is no Camelot in college concerning this kind of story:

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20130628/NEWS03/306280132/Four-Vanderbilt-football-players-suspended-amid-sex-crimes-investigation?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE&nclick_check=1

Four vandy football players have been suspended and this is a developing story.

LoganBuck
06-29-2013, 11:14 AM
There is no Camelot in college concerning this kind of story:

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20130628/NEWS03/306280132/Four-Vanderbilt-football-players-suspended-amid-sex-crimes-investigation?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE&nclick_check=1

Four vandy football players have been suspended and this is a developing story.

I don't know about any of these anymore. Headlines appear everyone is shocked, 2 months later the story changes. Ohio State had something like this several months back.I think it ended up with someone quietly leaving school.

dabvu2498
06-29-2013, 11:28 AM
I don't know about any of these anymore. Headlines appear everyone is shocked, 2 months later the story changes. Ohio State had something like this several months back.I think it ended up with someone quietly leaving school.

Allegedly, the events that occurred at Vandetbilt mostly played out in front of security cameras, so we will likely have a fairly clear idea of what went down if it came to a physical level. Also allegedly, this incident involves 3 freshmen who all redshirted this past year and one incoming freshman.

Jojo--We already knew it wasn't Camelot. In Franklin's first season, a walk-on was involved in a burglary, this past spring, two kids who had been on the team got into an altercation outside a bar and one was allegedly stabbed, and a starting DT was suspended for team rule and academic violations.

Everybody at Vandy loves the 9-4. But this crap will put Franklin on the hot seat post haste. I sure as hell hope it does. And I love the guy. But this will not do.

jojo
07-01-2013, 02:48 PM
This doesn't come as a surprise to me but Auburn fans are ranked as the most loyal fans in college fooltball:



Discover Calls SEC Fans Most Loyal in College Football

http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2013/01/22/discover-calls-sec-fans-most-loyal-in-college-football/

Sea Ray
07-01-2013, 04:08 PM
3 Big Ten teams in the top 5


The top five groups of super fans follow:
Auburn
Nebraska
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Iowa

Boston Red
07-01-2013, 04:46 PM
Man, other than Auburn SEC fans apparently don't care much for footbal. They all must go to the games for the marching band.

jojo
07-01-2013, 05:14 PM
Man, other than Auburn SEC fans apparently don't care much for footbal. They all must go to the games for the marching band.

Apparently a higher percentage of Auburn fans do more than tailgate.

jojo
07-02-2013, 11:02 AM
Two A&M players arrested for assault-both are listed as starters coming out of spring practice.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/07/two_texas_am_players_facing_as.html#incart_river

Vegas odds are 1500:1 that Sumlin actually doles out a penalty that affects the Aggies on the field.

NebraskaRed
07-18-2013, 09:50 AM
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9484844/johnny-manziel-texas-going-live-life-fullest

Is "I just overslept" the new "I just f#@*ing walked a guy"?

jojo
07-19-2013, 10:15 AM
This is an example of why alot of college football fans hate the SEC and a perfect representation of the average Bama fan. At least this one has apparently set foot on a college campus (according to the article) though clearly it isn't one with a history department....


"He's (Saban) a winner, he just does what he wants to do," says Lee Allen, an Alabama fan from Decatur. "He's kind of like Hitler. He's a dictator. He brought us back to the top and I figure we're going to be here for a while. Money well spent."

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/07/post_500.html

dabvu2498
07-19-2013, 01:29 PM
I'd say the woman wanting to give him nesting dolls is 15-20% creepier than Hitler dude.

jojo
08-04-2013, 07:16 PM
Johnny Football might have actually stepped in it this time....he's being investigated for signing autographs in what is being alleged was a five-figure deal.

If you look at the penalties for Green at Georgia (sold a jersey for roughly $1000----4 games) and the whole OSU free tattoo thing (free tattoos-5 games), then JM might be looking at sitting out a season. He'll obviously practice (A&M gets underway tomorrow) but I don't think it's a certainty that he'll be eligible for the Bama game.

Given the number of starters that A&M lost on both sides of the ball, they can not afford to lose JM for any significant time.



http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=9537999&src=desktop&wjb

KronoRed
08-04-2013, 10:18 PM
If this is true, and considering he comes from a rich family and is less then a year from a big payday, he must be dumber then a box of rocks.

jojo
08-05-2013, 12:24 PM
Jeeps, I'm already sick of hearing about Johnny Manziel. We think we know that the NCAA is investigating the possibility of an illegal benefit and the large amount of high quality Manziel autographed memorability that appeared on the market at the time of the alledged deal probably justifies the NCAA poking into it.

I vote for waiting for more facts rather than filling in the void with supposition. It could get interesting is this lingers into the last week of the August as A&M will need to make a decision about whether to play JM once the season begins or to sit him. Maybe the number of reps he gets in practice will be a tell? This will be an interesting issue if the NCAA doesn't make some type of decision during practice this month.

puca
08-05-2013, 12:40 PM
Jeeps, I'm already sick of hearing about Johnny Manziel. We think we know that the NCAA is investigating the possibility of an illegal benefit and the large amount of high quality Manziel autographed memorability that appeared on the market at the time of the alledged deal probably justifies the NCAA poking into it.

I vote for waiting for more facts rather than filling in the void with supposition. It could get interesting is this lingers into the last week of the August as A&M will need to make a decision about whether to play JM once the season begins or to sit him. Maybe the number of reps he gets in practice will be a tell? This will be an interesting issue if the NCAA doesn't make some type of decision during practice this month.

Circumstantial evidence won't get it done. Someone would have to step forward and testify or offer some kind of proof. It won't be the slimey sports memorabilia guy unless he is saving his ass for some other reason. It would have to be someone from Johnny's entourage or someone he bragged to. Unlikely the NCAA will find the proof they need - which doesn't mean it didn't happen.

RedTeamGo!
08-05-2013, 01:56 PM
Johnny Football might have actually stepped in it this time....he's being investigated for signing autographs in what is being alleged was a five-figure deal.

If you look at the penalties for Green at Georgia (sold a jersey for roughly $1000----4 games) and the whole OSU free tattoo thing (free tattoos-5 games), then JM might be looking at sitting out a season. He'll obviously practice (A&M gets underway tomorrow) but I don't think it's a certainty that he'll be eligible for the Bama game.

Given the number of starters that A&M lost on both sides of the ball, they can not afford to lose JM for any significant time.



http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=9537999&src=desktop&wjb

Wait, shouldn't all of this be blamed on Sumlin for the culture he has created at Texas A&M?

jojo
08-05-2013, 01:57 PM
Circumstantial evidence won't get it done. Someone would have to step forward and testify or offer some kind of proof. It won't be the slimey sports memorabilia guy unless he is saving his ass for some other reason. It would have to be someone from Johnny's entourage or someone he bragged to. Unlikely the NCAA will find the proof they need - which doesn't mean it didn't happen.

5 figures/the # of alledged items is large enough that you'd think some kind of paper trail could be reasonably followed.

If the NCAA looks at phone records, texts, bank records, witness statements etc and can't find a single reason to suspect the allegations are true, then really it's reasonable to assume it didn't happen given the size of the special benefit alledged. That said, they may not get access to that kind of information in this investigation.

jojo
08-05-2013, 01:58 PM
Wait, shouldn't all of this be blamed on Sumlin for the culture he has created at Texas A&M?

Bama boosters in conjunction with Bama alumni in the media set Johnny Football up.

dougdirt
08-05-2013, 03:42 PM
I hate the NCAA.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9539990/broker-says-johnny-manziel-friend-halted-free-autograph-signings
The value of Manziel is clear in the memorabilia and appearance market: Independent merchandiser Aggieland Outfitters recently auctioned off six helmets signed by Manziel and Texas A&M's other Heisman Trophy winner, John David Crow, for $81,000. Texas A&M's booster organization, the 12th Man Foundation, sold a table for six, where Manziel and Crow will sit at the team's Kickoff Dinner later this month, for $20,000.

Manziel can't sell his autograph for 10 cents or he could be suspended.

It really is time for all of this crap to end.

dabvu2498
08-05-2013, 10:46 PM
http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/2621609

:D

jojo
08-05-2013, 11:17 PM
A&M would be stupid not to be 8 steps ahead of the investigation.

RedsBaron
08-07-2013, 08:59 AM
I hate the NCAA.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9539990/broker-says-johnny-manziel-friend-halted-free-autograph-signings
The value of Manziel is clear in the memorabilia and appearance market: Independent merchandiser Aggieland Outfitters recently auctioned off six helmets signed by Manziel and Texas A&M's other Heisman Trophy winner, John David Crow, for $81,000. Texas A&M's booster organization, the 12th Man Foundation, sold a table for six, where Manziel and Crow will sit at the team's Kickoff Dinner later this month, for $20,000.

Manziel can't sell his autograph for 10 cents or he could be suspended.

It really is time for all of this crap to end.
Yep.
There is probably no sports organization more hypocritical than the NCAA.

jojo
08-13-2013, 01:29 PM
Apparently the mysterious chronic medical condition that caused Caleb Gulledge to be medically disqualified from Alabama and roused a tearful, anguished goodbye from Coach Saban this spring as Bama needed to reduce its roster from 97 to 85 has magically been cured. Go figure!

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/08/former_alabama_ol_caleb_gulled.html

VottoFan54
08-14-2013, 02:29 PM
Apparently the mysterious chronic medical condition that caused Caleb Gulledge to be medically disqualified from Alabama and roused a tearful, anguished goodbye from Coach Saban this spring as Bama needed to reduce its roster from 97 to 85 has magically been cured. Go figure!

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/08/former_alabama_ol_caleb_gulled.html

Caleb Gulledge has a herniated L4 and L5 in his back which is a good reason for a team to medically disqualify an athlete. It is not too crazy to think that an FCS team would do everything they could to play a kid that is a 3-4 star prospect.

Boston Red
08-14-2013, 03:00 PM
I hate the NCAA.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9539990/broker-says-johnny-manziel-friend-halted-free-autograph-signings
The value of Manziel is clear in the memorabilia and appearance market: Independent merchandiser Aggieland Outfitters recently auctioned off six helmets signed by Manziel and Texas A&M's other Heisman Trophy winner, John David Crow, for $81,000. Texas A&M's booster organization, the 12th Man Foundation, sold a table for six, where Manziel and Crow will sit at the team's Kickoff Dinner later this month, for $20,000.

Manziel can't sell his autograph for 10 cents or he could be suspended.

It really is time for all of this crap to end.


Maziel would be so much better off if college football didn't exist.

jojo
08-14-2013, 03:26 PM
Caleb Gulledge has a herniated L4 and L5 in his back which is a good reason for a team to medically disqualify an athlete. It is not too crazy to think that an FCS team would do everything they could to play a kid that is a 3-4 star prospect.

I guess he doesn't need those playing football for Jacksonville State? I tend to think it is crazy to suggest a player can't play but a smaller college would run him out anyway.

Saban had a numbers problem and he had better players than Caleb, for whatever reason.

VottoFan54
08-14-2013, 04:07 PM
I guess he doesn't need those playing football for Jacksonville State? I tend to think it is crazy to suggest a player can't play but a smaller college would run him out anyway.

Saban had a numbers problem and he had better players than Caleb, for whatever reason.

You have never heard of someone recieving different advice from two different doctors? It is actually fairly common. Jarvis Jones is a recent example of this happening.

http://blogs.ajc.com/recruiting/2010/06/15/usc-transfer-jarvis-jones-chooses-georgia-bulldogs/


Jones has spent the last two days in Athens touring the school and football facilities and meeting with medical personnel to discuss the neck injury that cut short his freshman season at USC.

Jones, then a freshman linebacker, sprained his neck in the Trojans’ eighth game last season and had to sit out the rest of the year. USC doctors subsequently would not clear Jones for spring practice this year.

McGee said Jones sought a second and third opinion and was told he should be able to continue his career but the Trojans still relented. He finally asked for and was granted a release from USC.

jojo
08-14-2013, 04:27 PM
You have never heard of someone recieving different advice from two different doctors? It is actually fairly common. Jarvis Jones is a recent example of this happening.

http://blogs.ajc.com/recruiting/2010/06/15/usc-transfer-jarvis-jones-chooses-georgia-bulldogs/

And Saban went with the advice that helped him figure out a way to make 12 players go away....

VottoFan54
08-14-2013, 05:10 PM
And Saban went with the advice that helped him figure out a way to make 12 players go away....

I'm not sure that Saban even played a role in that decision. If the medical staff says that a kid can't play, then he can't play.

RiverRat13
08-14-2013, 06:59 PM
I'm not sure that Saban even played a role in that decision. If the medical staff says that a kid can't play, then he can't play.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703384204575509901468451306.html?m od=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsForth#articleTabs% 3Darticle

VottoFan54
08-14-2013, 07:25 PM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703384204575509901468451306.html?m od=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsForth#articleTabs% 3Darticle

If all three of these kids had suffered through Saban's processing, why was only one quoted?

This article outlines a situation that occurs at every single level of football, a player thinks he is healthy enough to play, but the coach thinks it is too risky. You have never heard of this happening? One guy had a shoulder problem, another one a back problem, and the last one an ACL injury. All three of these are legitimate injuries. They thought they were healthy enough to play, but they failed physicals.

jojo
08-14-2013, 08:08 PM
If all three of these kids had suffered through Saban's processing, why was only one quoted?

This article outlines a situation that occurs at every single level of football, a player thinks he is healthy enough to play, but the coach thinks it is too risky. You have never heard of this happening? One guy had a shoulder problem, another one a back problem, and the last one an ACL injury. All three of these are legitimate injuries. They thought they were healthy enough to play, but they failed physicals.

I think even members of the Red Elephant Club are snickering.....

VottoFan54
08-14-2013, 08:43 PM
I think even members of the Red Elephant Club are snickering.....

Saban would definitely be better off playing these kids that have serious medical issues. :rolleyes:

jojo
08-14-2013, 08:54 PM
Saban would definitely be better off playing these kids that have serious medical issues. :rolleyes:

While your little emoticon guy is rolling it's eyes, it can also keep ignoring the reality of Bama roster management. Saban can't sign 125 guys to keep them from oing elsewhere like Bear did. For instance, if Saban signs say 97, he has to make 12 go away.

BuckeyeRed27
08-14-2013, 08:54 PM
Saban would definitely be better off playing these kids that have serious medical issues. :rolleyes:

So why isn't Jacksonville State catching more heat for playing a kid with a serious medical condition?

BillDoran
08-14-2013, 09:12 PM
While your little emoticon guy is rolling it's eyes, it can also keep ignoring the reality of Bama roster management. Saban can't sign 125 guys to keep them from oing elsewhere like Bear did. For instance, if Saban signs say 97, he has to make 12 go away.

Saban and the Alabama medical staff determined that Gulledge had an injury severe enough to end his playing career. I don't see how it's fair to speculate on whether there may have been other motives. Seems comparable to any other decision where the public isn't privy to the full details, you know, kind of like an NCAA ruling. Not sure how one can have it both ways. Either you take these announcements at face value, or you don't.

I suppose one could choose to believe that which supports ideas favorable to their position, and at other times make blind accusations when the position doesn't, but that just doesn't seem very sporting now, does it?

jojo
08-14-2013, 09:21 PM
Saban and the Alabama medical staff determined that Gulledge had an injury severe enough to end his playing career. I don't see how it's fair to speculate on whether there may have been other motives. Seems comparable to any other decision where the public isn't privy to the full details, you know, kind of like an NCAA ruling. Not sure how one can have it both ways. Either you take these announcements at face value, or you don't.

I suppose one could choose to believe that which supports ideas favorable to their position, and at other times make blind accusations when the position doesn't, but that just doesn't seem very sporting now, does it?

Holy false equivalencies Batman!!!!

VottoFan54
08-14-2013, 09:22 PM
So why isn't Jacksonville State catching more heat for playing a kid with a serious medical condition?

Because they are Jacksonville State. The media would much rather bash big, bad Alabama than Jacksonville State, they know that they don't get readers by talking about FCS schools.

BillDoran
08-14-2013, 09:33 PM
Holy false equivalencies Batman!!!!

You can respond or evade as you so desire. Fact is, it's about choosing what you believe. Trained medical doctors declared him physically unable to compete. Unless you can provide evidence that Gulledge's health did meet their standards, I'll trust the expert opinion.

VottoFan54
08-14-2013, 09:34 PM
While your little emoticon guy is rolling it's eyes, it can also keep ignoring the reality of Bama roster management. Saban can't sign 125 guys to keep them from oing elsewhere like Bear did. For instance, if Saban signs say 97, he has to make 12 go away.

How do you know that all 97 of those athletes recieved full ride football scholarships? This link (http://www.rolltide.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/alab-m-footbl-mtt.html) shows a roster of 100+ athletes competing for UA, which obviously means that walk-ons are listed on the rosters too.

This link (http://boards.dawgrun.com/message_board/georgia/2013/August/9/684760.php) lists exactly who left the Alabama football team and their reason for doing so.

VottoFan54
08-14-2013, 09:39 PM
JoJo used this Mark Schlabach quote earlier in the thread, I think the same applies to Alabama.


There is a lot of money to be made by writing negative stories about Auburn (true or not). Our audience wants to read dirt on Auburn so we give them what they want. This is not NPR. ESPN is a business and we have to do what is best for our bottom line.

jojo
08-14-2013, 09:44 PM
You can respond or evade as you so desire. Fact is, it's about choosing what you believe. Trained medical doctors declared him physically unable to compete. Unless you can provide evidence that Gulledge's health did meet their standards, I'll trust the expert opinion.

If you can't differentiate between an actual investigation and Bama finding a doctor to sign on the dotted line to push some paperwork, then I don't really see the potential for an actual discussion.

But hey, at least you're trolling in a thread that is somewhat content appropriate this time.

jojo
08-14-2013, 09:49 PM
How do you know that all 97 of those athletes recieved full ride football scholarships? This link (http://www.rolltide.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/alab-m-footbl-mtt.html) shows a roster of 100+ athletes competing for UA, which obviously means that walk-ons are listed on the rosters too.

This link (http://boards.dawgrun.com/message_board/georgia/2013/August/9/684760.php) lists exactly who left the Alabama football team and their reason for doing so.

Bama's attrition magically totaled 12? The exact total they needed to reach 85? What fortunate luck!

BillDoran
08-14-2013, 10:07 PM
If you can't differentiate between an actual investigation and Bama finding a doctor to sign on the dotted line to push some paperwork, then I don't really see the potential for an actual discussion.

But hey, at least you're trolling in a thread that is somewhat content appropriate this time.

So, what you're suggesting here is that you find an investigation by the NCAA to be credible, while the opinion of medical doctors to not reach your standard?

On the trolling, I'm trying to have a civil discussion. I'd appreciate you leave the personal attacks out. I'm just looking for proof that I shouldn't trust these trained doctors' opinions, as you seem to be implying.

VottoFan54
08-14-2013, 10:14 PM
If you can't differentiate between an actual investigation and Bama finding a doctor to sign on the dotted line to push some paperwork, then I don't really see the potential for an actual discussion.

But hey, at least you're trolling in a thread that is somewhat content appropriate this time.

The UA Medical Staff conducts the physicals for the football players. They decided that it was unsafe for Caleb Gulledge to play football. UA did not go out and "find a doctor to sign on the dotted line".

VottoFan54
08-14-2013, 10:22 PM
Bama's attrition magically totaled 12? The exact total they needed to reach 85? What fortunate luck!

I'm still not convinced that they ever had 97 scholarship athletes in the first place.

jojo
08-14-2013, 10:26 PM
I'm still not convinced that they ever had 97 scholarship athletes in the first place.

Given their signing class, they would've had 97. Of course, now it's no longer a problem.

jojo
08-14-2013, 10:28 PM
The UA Medical Staff conducts the physicals for the football players. They decided that it was unsafe for Caleb Gulledge to play football. UA did not go out and "find a doctor to sign on the dotted line".

JSU has such a large endowment, they can afford the lawsuit that would result from playing guys who shouldnt be medically cleared. It's certainly worth the risk too given the huge bowl payouts they stand to get.