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View Full Version : What Is The Obbsession with Dave Sappelt?



WillRich
09-17-2011, 12:58 PM
I have been on Redszone pretty regurarly since we called up Sappelt and I really want to understand why everyone sees him as being the "Center Fileder of the Future??" Honestly what has the guy done to prove that he is sooo much better than Stubbs and Heisey. And does he really seem like the guy that we want leading off for us for the next few years? No disrespect to anyone but I really feel like if we need to look anywhere for the answer it should be Heisey. I mean the guy has 17 homeruns (as of 9/17/11) in only 111 games. If he stays healthy and stretches this out to maybe 150 games, he could hit 25 homeruns and drive in 80. His stats and potential to me just seem to be much better than Sappelt's.

Stray
09-17-2011, 01:12 PM
He looks like he can play. He didn't do himself any favors though...when you have a chance to make an impression you better hustle. He's been a lot better lately, but barring a trade I don't know where he fits in.

Heisey gives us some power, Stubbs gives us great range and speed, Alonso gives us a promising bat, and Bruce isn't going anywhere for good reason. Frazier has a ton of flexibility so I could see where management might want him around next season, and Francisco seems to be earning his spot next season. With Cairo still being around as our super sub, and the question on what in the world we'll do for a backup SS to play behind a Cozart who is coming off an injury, you wonder how we are going to make room.

My guess is Sappelt will be an odd man out.

izzy's dad
09-17-2011, 01:17 PM
I think the Dave Sappelt love started last year, and really picked up steam this spring training. I have been reluctant. He plays very good defense, but he doesn't walk, steal bases, run the bases well, etc. I don't see him as a regular in the bigs, but who really knows. He was the flavor of the month so to speak.

Old NDN
09-17-2011, 02:04 PM
Why not Sappelt? Like those that preceded him, Sappelt is being given a an opportunity to start. None of the others took advantage of their chances. Nor has he, at this point. Although Heisey has put up some pretty good numbers, he didn't do well when given extended starts. Riding Gomes, Lewis, and Stubbs too long has proven to be poor managing. I'm not so sure we have a leadoff hitter on this team, other than Phillips.

partisan
09-17-2011, 02:04 PM
Of all the options we have at center field, Sappelt is the best chance for a .300+ hitter. He doesn't have the power of either stubbs or heisey, but he probably ends up with a much higher OBP.

That's his value, along with good defense.

Vottomatic
09-17-2011, 02:09 PM
i'm not in love with Sappelt, but I feel every rookie should get an equal amount of playing time to show what they can do. I think he makes more contact than most of them. Batting .250 in your first stint isn't exactly bad. Alonso struggled last September when he got called up. These guys have to get used to just being in the major leagues among other things.

I'm neither for or against him. If he'd bat .300 and have an OBP around .340+, I'd be interested in him at leadoff. We need guys on base ahead of Votto.

mu4103
09-17-2011, 02:20 PM
Simple, I think people like Sappelt because he hit the cover off the ball in the spring and for awhile in the minors while the Reds were looking for a LFer. People wanted to see him play.

Todd Gack
09-17-2011, 04:41 PM
I often ask myself this question regarding Chris Heisey.

markymark69
09-17-2011, 05:49 PM
Simple, I think people like Sappelt because he hit the cover off the ball in the spring and for awhile in the minors while the Reds were looking for a LFer. People wanted to see him play.

Agreed. To expound on your point. He is a minor league standout who many believe (wrongly) is better than what we had at the major league level - he is one that many on this board have fallen in love with - the only difference is Dusty has actually let this guy play a little bit and he hasn't exactly seized his opportunity.

He's okay, but he's not better than Stubbs or Heisey. Besides, I think the Reds will trade for a power hitting left fielder in the offseason or play Alonso out there - so Sappelt will not have a place to play - unless it is fifth outfielder.

partisan
09-18-2011, 11:47 PM
Agreed. To expound on your point. He is a minor league standout who many believe (wrongly) is better than what we had at the major league level - he is one that many on this board have fallen in love with - the only difference is Dusty has actually let this guy play a little bit and he hasn't exactly seized his opportunity.

He's okay, but he's not better than Stubbs or Heisey. Besides, I think the Reds will trade for a power hitting left fielder in the offseason or play Alonso out there - so Sappelt will not have a place to play - unless it is fifth outfielder.

I wouldnt be opposed to seeing Sappelt getting more time in center over Stubbs.

Frankly of all the outfield options we have, Stubbs is the least appealing. He's never going to have an OBP high enough to justify his 'power potential'. The kid has had strike out issues all the way through the system, I don't expect him to figure it out now.

powersackers
09-19-2011, 02:37 AM
Stubbs, Heisey, Sappelt in that order is how it's looking for CF, I am about done with Stubbs myself, but my names not Baker....

All play above average Defense. Stubbs greatly above average. Stubbs has the baserunning skills too. He needs to stay batting 8th though. He's basically a liability with a bat in his hands.

So Sappelt will be the odd man out. We don't have room for a 5th RH outfielder. They'll find a 2012 version of Fred Lewis most likely.

Starting OF: Alsonso, Stubbs, Bruce
Bench OF: Heisey, LH FA

HalKing
09-19-2011, 05:35 AM
I'm on the Sappelt wagon. Having seen him the past 1+ season in AAA he has shown me that he's the real deal. Not everyone that shines in Louisville also shines in Cincy. Some because they are never given a chance, some because they can't make the leap. As of right now I'd make the same argument for Sappelt that I'd make for Heisey. Both deserve playing time over Drew Stubbs in my opinion. Stubbs is a guy who has gone backwards during his time in the majors and quite frankly that hasn't surprised me in the least. He wasn't really ready for the callup when he got it and played well above realistic expectations when he first made it to the bigs. Dusty fell in love with him and can't see past that. 197 K's is embarassing. Why the Reds keep running him out there over Sappelt or Heisey is the mystery in my mind.

Vottomatic
09-19-2011, 08:37 AM
I wouldnt be opposed to seeing Sappelt getting more time in center over Stubbs.

Frankly of all the outfield options we have, Stubbs is the least appealing. He's never going to have an OBP high enough to justify his 'power potential'. The kid has had strike out issues all the way through the system, I don't expect him to figure it out now.

Always what has bugged me about Bruce and Stubbs. You come to the majors and opposing scouts build a book on you for opposing pitchers, how to pitch you to get you out. Good hitters make adjustments to counter the book on them. Bruce and Stubbs have not done that. Frustrates me.

A Votto, and I'd bet Alonso, good hitters, will make adjustments.

I'm in the trade Stubbs while his value is still high camp. He is a 5 tool player to a certain extent. And many GM's fall in love with that.

FireDusty
09-19-2011, 01:01 PM
My only obsession with Sappelt is that he is not the bust that is Drew "I'm 28 years old and still can't hit" Stubbs.

If this club is serious about contending in 2012, Drew Stubbs simply cannot get 700 at bats.

FireDusty
09-19-2011, 01:03 PM
I'm in the trade Stubbs while his value is still high camp. He is a 5 tool player to a certain extent. And many GM's fall in love with that.

It never fails to amaze me how Reds fans feel like our trash is somehow worth something.

Drew Stubbs, within 2 years...will be a 4th or 5th outfielder for someone. He'll be 30 years old, average power, horrid strike zone judgement....but he'll run really fast.

Bust.

brm7675
09-19-2011, 01:46 PM
It never fails to amaze me how Reds fans feel like our trash is somehow worth something.

Drew Stubbs, within 2 years...will be a 4th or 5th outfielder for someone. He'll be 30 years old, average power, horrid strike zone judgement....but he'll run really fast.

Bust.

I couldn't disagree more, I think Stubbs if he works with a good hitting coach can be a terriffic CF for the next 5-7 seasons. Now finding a good quality hitting coach is the key.

mu4103
09-19-2011, 05:15 PM
It never fails to amaze me how Reds fans feel like our trash is somehow worth something.

Drew Stubbs, within 2 years...will be a 4th or 5th outfielder for someone. He'll be 30 years old, average power, horrid strike zone judgement....but he'll run really fast.

Bust.

I disagree. I think Stubbs is still highly regarded around the league. There are still GMs who look at the tools and believe this guy can be the real deal. The problem is he hasn't been. I don't think he will be with the Reds, but has a shot with another team. Some things obviously needs to change for Drew Stubbs. Playing time is the first thing that needs to change. If he is to have any chance at being the player people hope he can be, he needs time off to develop his tools and like you always say "competition!".

texasdave
09-19-2011, 05:44 PM
This article seems to indicate that hitters don't improve their contract rate all that much as they gain experience. I just skimmed the article. Will read it later. If you can't make contact then you can't make contact. Is a nominal improvement going to make much difference in his game?

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/3/10/2038583/developing-plate-discipline

mu4103
09-19-2011, 06:49 PM
This article seems to indicate that hitters don't improve their contract rate all that much as they gain experience. I just skimmed the article. Will read it later. If you can't make contact then you can't make contact. Is a nominal improvement going to make much difference in his game?

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/3/10/2038583/developing-plate-discipline

Interesting article, to me Drew's problem is not so much discipline as it is ability. Matt Kemp used to swing at pitches 2 feet outside of the strike-zone. Stubbs seems to swing at normal pitches, he just misses. That is where I see the problem.

Vottomatic
09-19-2011, 08:35 PM
I disagree. I think Stubbs is still highly regarded around the league. There are still GMs who look at the tools and believe this guy can be the real deal. The problem is he hasn't been. I don't think he will be with the Reds, but has a shot with another team. Some things obviously needs to change for Drew Stubbs. Playing time is the first thing that needs to change. If he is to have any chance at being the player people hope he can be, he needs time off to develop his tools and like you always say "competition!".

Yeah, when Stubbs starts to use his tools, he could really be dealin'. He will be a huge asset to the club in a big time way.

Pete4prez
09-19-2011, 09:32 PM
Of all of our outfied prospects, Sappelt is the one who could be our true leadoff hitter that we have not had in a while. He is also has solid defense.

Mutaman
09-20-2011, 02:14 AM
I couldn't disagree more, I think Stubbs if he works with a good hitting coach can be a terriffic CF for the next 5-7 seasons. Now finding a good quality hitting coach is the key.

There is not one shred of evidence in Stubbs college, minor or major league
carreer to support this statement. Unless hitting .260 with a few HRs and a zillion strike outs qualifies as being "terriffic". Or you know of some hitting coach out there who can turn water into wine.

drowg14
09-20-2011, 11:47 AM
There is not one shred of evidence in Stubbs college, minor or major league
carreer to support this statement. Unless hitting .260 with a few HRs and a zillion strike outs qualifies as being "terriffic". Or you know of some hitting coach out there who can turn water into wine.

Jose Bautista's hitting coach performed a miracle. Different scenario though, I don't think he ever had the poor plate discipline of Stubbs.

Pete4prez
09-20-2011, 12:31 PM
It never fails to amaze me how Reds fans feel like our trash is somehow worth something.

Drew Stubbs, within 2 years...will be a 4th or 5th outfielder for someone. He'll be 30 years old, average power, horrid strike zone judgement....but he'll run really fast.

Bust.

It is going to be interesting to see if Stubbs goes the way of Austin Kearnes.

FireDusty
09-20-2011, 03:29 PM
I'm tellin' ya, Stubbs is as good as he is ever going to get right now.

texasdave
09-20-2011, 03:32 PM
If you could teach hitting and making contact, then everyone would do it. An incremental improvement is all you can expect. Jose Bautistas aren't dropping out of the sky.

That being said, I hope Stubbs makes me eat crow. Love for it to happen. Just not expecting it to.

Vottomatic
09-20-2011, 08:06 PM
Sappelt 1-1 tonight. He is going to be the greatest leadoff hitter ever!!!!!! I'm obsessed!!!!

texasdave
09-20-2011, 08:18 PM
Sappelt 2 for 2. Hitting .318 for the month with an OPS of .848. Numbers you can definitely live with.

The DARK
09-20-2011, 08:24 PM
Sappelt 2 for 2. Hitting .318 for the month with an OPS of .848. Numbers you can definitely live with.

I'm glad that he seems to be coming into his own. Some more hustle and stealing ability would be nice, but as he is, he's been a valuable addition to this team thus far. His good defense and solid hitting at the top of the order should earn him a spot on the roster next season; Bruce, Stubbs, Alonso, Heisey, and Sappelt would be a nice outfield to work with, and I'd take him over Francisco and Frazier.

FireDusty
09-20-2011, 08:58 PM
Sappelt 2 for 2. Hitting .318 for the month with an OPS of .848. Numbers you can definitely live with.

Sappelt = Better offensive player than Stubbs.

jwmann2
09-21-2011, 01:50 PM
Really sucks that the Reds are no having to rely on their Minor League prospects. Why can't we be one of the teams that signs big time free agents every year?

Stray
09-21-2011, 02:49 PM
Because our stadium is empty more often than not. Ownership could throw some money at it, and payroll will more than likely get bumped up a little bit, but we're still a market size that has to rely on drafting and developing well to succeed.

All in all I think we do a good job. The talent we have in the organization is exciting.