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fearofpopvol1
09-19-2011, 06:50 PM
Rays are now only back 1.5 games. Pretty incredible, eh? How epic of a collapse would it be if the Rays make the playoffs and the Red Sox lose out? Not as bad as the Mets recent collapse I don't think, but it would definitely be up there.

Tony Cloninger
09-19-2011, 11:32 PM
I wish it was the Yankees doing this. They have never done it and I think they deserve one.

I still do not get how that team has won with basically CC and Nova.....and the Fat Tub of Goo with Stem Cells in his arm.... Freddy FREAKING Garcia and AJ "Sybil" Burnett.

MikeThierry
09-19-2011, 11:58 PM
I wish it was the Yankees doing this. They have never done it and I think they deserve one.

I still do not get how that team has won with basically CC and Nova.....and the Fat Tub of Goo with Stem Cells in his arm.... Freddy FREAKING Garcia and AJ "Sybil" Burnett.

Their offense can cover up a lot of starting pitching deficiencies. I was looking at their run differential and they have an insane +205. Plus, having the best reliever in the history of the game at the back of the bullpen helps as well.

Chip R
09-20-2011, 12:18 AM
It's back to a 2 game lead now as BOS won the nightcap.

blumj
09-20-2011, 12:26 AM
The Yankees starters have pitched well, it's the Red Sox starting pitching that has completely fallen apart. They've gotten something like 3 quality starts in their last 20 games.

blumj
09-20-2011, 12:46 AM
Maybe the most interesting part of this, the Rays and Yankees still play each other 7 more times, one of them has to lose each of those games, so there's some potential for a 3 way tie if the Red Sox can stop their free fall, or at least keep it close all the way down to the last few games.

RedFanAlways1966
09-20-2011, 07:14 AM
I am rooting for the team with the lowest payroll.

Ghosts of 1990
09-20-2011, 09:21 AM
Go Rays

Tony Cloninger
09-20-2011, 11:21 AM
Their offense can cover up a lot of starting pitching deficiencies. I was looking at their run differential and they have an insane +205. Plus, having the best reliever in the history of the game at the back of the bullpen helps as well.

That amazes me as well. The only consistent offensive threat has been Curtis Granderson. The guy who no one questions as to how all of a sudden he can hit homers to deep CF in Toronto on breaking balls on the outside corner. People will buy the HGH stuff about Bautista but no....this guy must be a legit cuz he's a Yankee. And that's what happens when you're a Yankee.

Ok rant aside...... really who besides Tex, here and there....has really helped them on offense? The Village Idiot in RF has picked it up.... I mean they are getting contributions from Eric "Glass" Chavez and Andrew "Fat Tub of Goo 2" Jones?? It's bad enough they can pick up whomever they would need most of the time.....they actually have found gold in more trash this year that you can believe.

Homer Bailey
09-20-2011, 11:25 AM
That amazes me as well. The only consistent offensive threat has been Curtis Granderson. The guy who no one questions as to how all of a sudden he can hit homers to deep CF in Toronto on breaking balls on the outside corner. People will buy the HGH stuff about Bautista but no....this guy must be a legit cuz he's a Yankee. And that's what happens when you're a Yankee.

Ok rant aside...... really who besides Tex, here and there....has really helped them on offense? The Village Idiot in RF has picked it up.... I mean they are getting contributions from Eric "Glass" Chavez and Andrew "Fat Tub of Goo 2" Jones?? It's bad enough they can pick up whomever they would need most of the time.....they actually have found gold in more trash this year that you can believe.

Ummmm.... Robinson Cano? You know, the best 2nd baseman in baseball?

Tex has an insanely low BABIP considering his LD rate. I'm surprised more of that has not been made this year.

I just had to defend the Yankees. I feel dirty.

Tony Cloninger
09-20-2011, 12:19 PM
Ummmm.... Robinson Cano? You know, the best 2nd baseman in baseball?

Tex has an insanely low BABIP considering his LD rate. I'm surprised more of that has not been made this year.

I just had to defend the Yankees. I feel dirty.


My apologies...I forgot about Cano. THEN you have hodge podge of who?? and are you kidding me.....and is He still playing? All of a sudden Posada figured how to hit and not get hurt again? Maybe Jose B left his stuff and Posada had the clubhouse guy snag some? ;)

I know you feel dirty and I feel your pain. I can respect what they did to rebuild that team from the Stump Merrill/Bucky Dent years..... mainly with the great drafting they did.

MikeThierry
09-21-2011, 11:54 PM
My apologies...I forgot about Cano. THEN you have hodge podge of who?? and are you kidding me.....and is He still playing? All of a sudden Posada figured how to hit and not get hurt again? Maybe Jose B left his stuff and Posada had the clubhouse guy snag some? ;)

I know you feel dirty and I feel your pain. I can respect what they did to rebuild that team from the Stump Merrill/Bucky Dent years..... mainly with the great drafting they did.

You are also forgetting Mark Teixeira who is following the Ryan Howard route in having a very low batting average but because of the stadium and that lineup, he has 37 HR with 104 RBI's.

blumj
09-22-2011, 07:15 AM
The Angels are tied with the Rays, now, 2.5 back. The Red Sox are now 5-16 in September with 6 games left.

Homer Bailey
09-22-2011, 10:28 AM
You are also forgetting Mark Teixeira who is following the Ryan Howard route in having a very low batting average but because of the stadium and that lineup, he has 37 HR with 104 RBI's.

He has a "very low" batting average because of his BABIP, not because he strikes out a lot, like Howard does. And he doesn't have a "very low" batting average.

blumj
09-24-2011, 08:22 AM
Remember that game hot potato? That's the AL wild card now, nobody wants it.

hebroncougar
09-25-2011, 07:44 PM
Perfect storm is taking place today.............I like it. :)

MikeThierry
09-25-2011, 08:57 PM
He has a "very low" batting average because of his BABIP, not because he strikes out a lot, like Howard does. And he doesn't have a "very low" batting average.

You don't consider Ryan Howard hitting .249 a very low batting average? That is beyond pitiful in my book for a superstar of his caliber. I would also say that Teixeira hitting .244 is beyond pitiful as well. I don't care what is BABIP, that is inexcusable for someone hitting either cleanup or in the 3rd spot, especially a New York Yankee hitting at that rate. Sorry, I have higher standards and expectations for those spots in the lineup. I have even higher standards for players who play for teams that have excessive payrolls and can practically buy any player they want.


Getting back to the topic at hand, Yankees and Sox tied in the 8th at 4 a piece. I hope the Yankees can pull this off. I love when there is meaningful baseball with only three games left to play after tonight.

Patrick Bateman
09-25-2011, 09:07 PM
You don't consider Ryan Howard hitting .249 a very low batting average? That is beyond pitiful in my book for a superstar of his caliber. I would also say that Teixeira hitting .244 is beyond pitiful as well. I don't care what is BABIP, that is inexcusable for someone hitting either cleanup or in the 3rd spot, especially a New York Yankee hitting at that rate. Sorry, I have higher standards and expectations for those spots in the lineup. I have even higher standards for players who play for teams that have excessive payrolls and can practically buy any player they want.



No, it's just not expectations that are different.

You are also just ignoring events that Tex likely has no control over.

As well, great players can have low batting averages and can still be great.

MikeThierry
09-25-2011, 09:40 PM
No, it's just not expectations that are different.

You are also just ignoring events that Tex likely has no control over.

As well, great players can have low batting averages and can still be great.

We are just going to agree to disagree on this topic. I feel that if there is a great hitter, that hitter should live up to expectations and live up to the contract they signed. Sorry, I guess the standards that you and I have differ from one another.

757690
09-26-2011, 12:11 AM
We are just going to agree to disagree on this topic. I feel that if there is a great hitter, that hitter should live up to expectations and live up to the contract they signed. Sorry, I guess the standards that you and I have differ from one another.

I agree with you Mike. I don't care why a batter has a low batting average. Production is production. Excuses are excuses. He's either getting the job done or he isn't.

Maybe you can look deep into Tex's stats and predict he'll be better next season, but that doesn't help with all the outs he made this season.

MikeThierry
09-26-2011, 12:24 AM
Red Sox win on an Ellsbury bomb, leaving them with a single game lead over the Rays.

blumj
09-26-2011, 01:24 AM
For a 3 way tie, Angels would have to sweep, Rays go 2-1, and Red Sox 1-2.

blumj
09-26-2011, 02:01 AM
This is funny, ESPN got a little ahead of themselves:

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1870/redsoxdefeattruman.jpg

The Operator
09-26-2011, 10:39 PM
With a Rays win and a Red Sox loss tonight, Tampa has moved into a tie for the wild card.

How awesome is this wild card race?

dougdirt
09-26-2011, 10:40 PM
The Rays have Jeremy Hellickson and David Price in the next two. The Red Sox have Erik Bedard and TBA. I like the Rays chances.

vaticanplum
09-26-2011, 10:44 PM
The Rays have Jeremy Hellickson and David Price in the next two. The Red Sox have Erik Bedard and TBA. I like the Rays chances.

I think Lester will probably pitch Wednesday. I don't know that that will help.

vaticanplum
09-26-2011, 10:45 PM
With a Rays win and a Red Sox loss tonight, Tampa has moved into a tie for the wild card.

How awesome is this wild card race?

This is just so fun. Late September baseball always throws up some surprises. I'm really enjoying the NL side too...I know that Cardinal fandom doesn't run rampant here, and I hate them too, but it's been a genuinely great story, and how great would it be to have the NL Central so well represented? When was the last time that even happened? 2005?

Guacarock
09-26-2011, 10:48 PM
Rooting for the Rays. Classic David vs. Goliath scenario.

Still, if they get into the playoffs, and especially if they make it through a round or two, they might not be at all inclined to dismantle their rotation this winter. Could be the kiss of death for any hopes of seeing James Shields in a Reds' uniform come 2012.

The Operator
09-26-2011, 10:51 PM
Rooting for the Rays. Classic David vs. Goliath scenario.

Still, if they get into the playoffs, and especially if they make it through a round or two, they might not be at all inclined to dismantle their rotation this winter. Could be the kiss of death for any hopes of seeing James Shields in a Reds' uniform come 2012.I wouldn't say that for sure. They went to the playoffs last year and promptly shipped Matt Garza to the Cubs.

Also, if I recall correctly, I want to say The Rays have a few pretty highly regarded pitching prospects on the way. With the way they do business, I think they'll deal Shields if they think it's their best move, regardless of this season's outcome.

Guacarock
09-26-2011, 11:05 PM
I wouldn't say that for sure. They went to the playoffs last year and promptly shipped Matt Garza to the Cubs.

Also, if I recall correctly, I want to say The Rays have a few pretty highly regarded pitching prospects on the way. With the way they do business, I think they'll deal Shields if they think it's their best move, regardless of this season's outcome.

That's true, but last year, they got beat in the first round by the Rangers. If they go further this year, carried on the back of stellar pitching by Shields, then they might decide to keep him or designate an astronomical "get" price.

They are always wheeling and dealing, but I suspect they'll trade B.J. Upton before Shields, if it's a money issue, and Niemann before Shields, if it's an issue of opening up a spot in the rotation for Matt Moore.

Homer Bailey
09-26-2011, 11:45 PM
You don't consider Ryan Howard hitting .249 a very low batting average? That is beyond pitiful in my book for a superstar of his caliber. I would also say that Teixeira hitting .244 is beyond pitiful as well. I don't care what is BABIP, that is inexcusable for someone hitting either cleanup or in the 3rd spot, especially a New York Yankee hitting at that rate. Sorry, I have higher standards and expectations for those spots in the lineup. I have even higher standards for players who play for teams that have excessive payrolls and can practically buy any player they want.


Getting back to the topic at hand, Yankees and Sox tied in the 8th at 4 a piece. I hope the Yankees can pull this off. I love when there is meaningful baseball with only three games left to play after tonight.

So you just want to ignore the facts so that your opinion is right?

Fact: Teixeira has a horribly unlucky BABIP based on his LD rate, leading to a lower than expected batting average.

And lucky enough for us, we've known for a long time that batting average is a poor way to determine a hitter's value.

And Ryan Howard strikes out a ton, which is why he is around a .250 hitter. Teixeira is not a .250 hitter. His BABIP is .60 points below his career average. With a normal BABIP, he'd be hitting .293, and IMO, a normal BABIP is generous, considering he has outstanding power, which typically leads to better contact on balls put in play, which leads to a higher batting average.

MikeThierry
09-26-2011, 11:55 PM
So you just want to ignore the facts so that your opinion is right?

Fact: Teixeira has a horribly unlucky BABIP based on his LD rate, leading to a lower than expected batting average.

And lucky enough for us, we've known for a long time that batting average is a poor way to determine a hitter's value.

And Ryan Howard strikes out a ton, which is why he is around a .250 hitter. Teixeira is not a .250 hitter. His BABIP is .60 points below his career average. With a normal BABIP, he'd be hitting .293, and IMO, a normal BABIP is generous, considering he has outstanding power, which typically leads to better contact on balls put in play, which leads to a higher batting average.

You can make excuses all you want for his horrible offensive play. We differ in how we approach players. I like players that actually get the job done and have higher expectations for them if they are supposed to be elite players. You can go ahead and go with the little league approach and give orange slices to these guys at the end of the games. Thats fine if you want to make excuses and baby players. I'm sure he will love for you to say "oh that's ok that you strike out 110 times Mark Teixeira. Your BABIP is low so that is why you are having an off season. Not living up to your contract is ok".

Even if you look at his numbers that show the true worth of a hitter, they are horrible. He has a .339 OBP, .482 SLG, and a .821 OPS... a .821 OPS for god sakes! That is down right pitiful for someone in his position and in that ballpark.

I'm a mild Yankees fan and it has angered me all year how bad he has been at the plate. Thank god for Granderson.

Homer Bailey
09-27-2011, 12:02 AM
You can make excuses all you want for his horrible offensive play. We differ in how we approach players. I like players that actually get the job done and have higher expectations for them if they are supposed to be elite players. You can go ahead and go with the little league approach and give orange slices to these guys at the end of the games. Thats fine if you want to make excuses and baby players. I'm sure he will love for you to say "oh that's ok that you strike out 110 times Mark Teixeira. Your BABIP is low so that is why you are having an off season. Not living up to your contract is ok".

Even if you look at his numbers that show the true worth of a hitter, they are horrible. He has a .339 OBP, .482 SLG, and a .821 OPS... a .821 OPS for god sakes! That is down right pitiful for someone in his position and in that ballpark.

I'm a mild Yankees fan and it has angered me all year how bad he has been at the plate. Thank god for Granderson.

So I guess you've got it all figured out then.

If so, can you please explain how Teixeira has such a low BABIP? Is it because he's a bad hitter?

I'll help you. It's based on luck. In this scenario, it's based 100% on luck. Some baseball fans are unable to separate cause and effect, and they come off as very ignorant because of it, as if they've got it all figured out.

And if his luck normalizes, his average goes to .293, his OBP goes to .398, and his SLG (if all of the extra hits go as singles, extremely unlikely), .541. That's a .938 OPS. That's higher than Albert Pujols.

Now, if you can prove to me that Teixeira is the first player in the history of the game of baseball to be able to control his BABIP, then you win. Otherwise, even though you will refuse to acknowledge it, you're way off.

Brutus
09-27-2011, 12:13 AM
So you just want to ignore the facts so that your opinion is right?

Fact: Teixeira has a horribly unlucky BABIP based on his LD rate, leading to a lower than expected batting average.

And lucky enough for us, we've known for a long time that batting average is a poor way to determine a hitter's value.

And Ryan Howard strikes out a ton, which is why he is around a .250 hitter. Teixeira is not a .250 hitter. His BABIP is .60 points below his career average. With a normal BABIP, he'd be hitting .293, and IMO, a normal BABIP is generous, considering he has outstanding power, which typically leads to better contact on balls put in play, which leads to a higher batting average.

BABIP is not very useful now in a vacuum. It's OK for when we don't have batted ball data, but in those situations, BABIP can actually give us false positives. Obviously a .300 career BABIP that has dipped to .250 isn't unlucky if it also is a result of having a 12% LD rate out of the blue.

That said, you're right about Teixeira, in this instance. While his LD% and GB/FB ratios are both at a career worst, it's not drastic. His xBABIP is .296, which indicates he has been indeed rather 'unlucky' as it is and his .238 BABIP.

Homer Bailey
09-27-2011, 12:21 AM
He has a "very low" batting average because of his BABIP, not because he strikes out a lot, like Howard does. And he doesn't have a "very low" batting average.


BABIP is not very useful now in a vacuum. It's OK for when we don't have batted ball data, but in those situations, BABIP can actually give us false positives. Obviously a .300 career BABIP that has dipped to .250 isn't unlucky if it also is a result of having a 12% LD rate out of the blue.

That said, you're right about Teixeira, in this instance. While his LD% and GB/FB ratios are both at a career worst, it's not drastic. His xBABIP is .296, which indicates he has been indeed rather 'unlucky' as it is and his .238 BABIP.

Yep. And I acknowledged his LD rate in my first post on the subject (above).

MikeThierry
09-27-2011, 12:28 AM
So I guess you've got it all figured out then.

If so, can you please explain how Teixeira has such a low BABIP? Is it because he's a bad hitter?

I'll help you. It's based on luck. In this scenario, it's based 100% on luck. Some baseball fans are unable to separate cause and effect, and they come off as very ignorant because of it, as if they've got it all figured out.

And if his luck normalizes, his average goes to .293, his OBP goes to .398, and his SLG (if all of the extra hits go as singles, extremely unlikely), .541. That's a .938 OPS. That's higher than Albert Pujols.

Now, if you can prove to me that Teixeira is the first player in the history of the game of baseball to be able to control his BABIP, then you win. Otherwise, even though you will refuse to acknowledge it, you're way off.

I never said he was a bad hitter. He isn't living up to expectations. There is a difference. This game is a bottom line game. Theoretically you are right. BABIP does show how lucky or unlucky a player is. Yet, that doesn't matter in the end. Just like in any sports, it is a "what have you done for me lately" game, especially if you are New York Yankee. We can play these what if scenarios all day long. The bottom line is he is having a bad year and should be criticized for it just like how Pujols was having a bad first two months and rightly should have been criticized for it. Again, you are looking at it from a stats point of view where as I'm coming from a results based point of view. I just feel that results matter most at this time of the year over everything else.

Now if we are trying to compare player x to player y then it is prudent to bring up such numbers that can explain a dip in production. Not when games are on the line though. We just have a difference in philosophy. Analyzing BABIP doesn't win you games. It explains why someone is having an off year but other than that it does nothing for the team.

Homer Bailey
09-27-2011, 12:37 AM
I never said he was a bad hitter. He isn't living up to expectations. There is a difference. This game is a bottom line game. Theoretically you are right. BABIP does show how lucky or unlucky a player is. Yet, that doesn't matter in the end. Just like in any sports, it is a "what have you done for me lately" game, especially if you are New York Yankee. We can play these what if scenarios all day long. The bottom line is he is having a bad year and should be criticized for it just like how Pujols was having a bad first two months and rightly should have been criticized for it. Again, you are looking at it from a stats point of view where as I'm coming from a results based point of view. I just feel that results matter most at this time of the year over everything else.

Now if we are trying to compare player x to player y then it is prudent to bring up such numbers that can explain a dip in production. Not when games are on the line though. We just have a difference in philosophy. Analyzing BABIP doesn't win you games. It explains why someone is having an off year but other than that it does nothing for the team.

We're getting closer. You are right in that the bottom line, all that matters is production. Would you rather have a guy get lucky and have an .850 OPS, or have a guy perform great, get unlucky, and have a .800 OPS? Obviously, from a results perspective, the latter.

The problem I have is the blame put on MT in this situation. He's done well with what he can control. Not K'd a ton, walked a steady rate, hit for power, hit plenty of line drives. He just hasn't had them fall in. You can't call that a bad year. Now, if his power dropped, his walk rate dropped, his K rate rose, and his LD rate dropped, you could easily make the case that he was aging, he was hurt, or he was just having a poor season.

MikeThierry
09-27-2011, 12:50 AM
We're getting closer. You are right in that the bottom line, all that matters is production. Would you rather have a guy get lucky and have an .850 OPS, or have a guy perform great, get unlucky, and have a .800 OPS? Obviously, from a results perspective, the latter.

The problem I have is the blame put on MT in this situation. He's done well with what he can control. Not K'd a ton, walked a steady rate, hit for power, hit plenty of line drives. He just hasn't had them fall in. You can't call that a bad year. Now, if his power dropped, his walk rate dropped, his K rate rose, and his LD rate dropped, you could easily make the case that he was aging, he was hurt, or he was just having a poor season.

umm... OPS'ing .821 is a bad year. I have the same standard for everyone even Cardinals players. Pujols had a bad year. I call a spade a spade. If a player that is supposed to be an elite player is OPSing .821, that is just a bad year, regardless of what his BABIP is or not. If the game was won on things he could control, you might be right but every player is subject to luck and they have to deal with that luck. Take for example Chris Carpenter. He was very unlucky this year, at least at the start. Many of his starts were blown by the bullpen and he didn't get a lot of run support. If you look at his ERA it is a 3.59 but his FIP is a 3.14. That would show some level of unluckiness. Still, the bottom line is that he is a 10-9 pitcher and way off from his normal production. This drop off in production is now reflected in his new contract he signed which they took about 4-5 million off of what they were going to pay him.

This is an interesting topic but I think we should stay on point with the Rays/Red Sox before we get yelled at by moderators, lol. If you want, open up another thread on the subject because its interesting.

Homer Bailey
09-27-2011, 12:55 AM
umm... OPS'ing .821 is a bad year. I have the same standard for everyone even Cardinals players. Pujols had a bad year. I call a spade a spade. If a player that is supposed to be an elite player is OPSing .821, that is just a bad year, regardless of what his BABIP is or not. If the game was won on things he could control, you might be right but every player is subject to luck and they have to deal with that luck. Take for example Chris Carpenter. He was very unlucky this year, at least at the start. Many of his starts were blown by the bullpen and he didn't get a lot of run support. If you look at his ERA it is a 3.59 but his FIP is a 3.14. That would show some level of unluckiness. Still, the bottom line is that he is a 10-9 pitcher and way off from his normal production. This drop off in production is now reflected in his new contract he signed which they took about 4-5 million off of what they were going to pay him.

This is an interesting topic but I think we should stay on point with the Rays/Red Sox before we get yelled at by moderators, lol. If you want, open up another thread on the subject because its interesting.

I think agreeing to disagree works for me.

MikeThierry
09-27-2011, 01:04 AM
I think agreeing to disagree works for me.

Agreed :)

Ron Madden
09-27-2011, 03:34 AM
The Rays have Jeremy Hellickson and David Price in the next two. The Red Sox have Erik Bedard and TBA. I like the Rays chances.

So do I. But it's Baseball so ya never know.

If the Red Sox would have had better pitching they would have walked away with the AL Eastern Division title.

mdccclxix
09-27-2011, 01:09 PM
I went to espn.com thinking this story would be huge front page news. Not so much. A story on the guy that was next to Bartman 8 years ago.

GO TAMPA BAY!

The Operator
09-27-2011, 10:46 PM
Looks like this one will come down to the final game, with both Boston and Tampa winning tonight. Wow.

Reds Fanatic
09-28-2011, 07:55 PM
Yankees up 5-0 on TB in the 2nd as Teixeira hits a grand slam against David Price.

dougdirt
09-28-2011, 08:15 PM
Red Sox down 2-1 at Baltimore in the 4th.

Reds Freak
09-28-2011, 08:18 PM
Looks like we're going to have two Game 163s...

Reds Fanatic
09-28-2011, 08:38 PM
Pedroia homers to make it 3-2 Sox. Teixeira homers again to make it 6-0 Yankees

The Operator
09-28-2011, 09:19 PM
The Rays are losing, The Red Sox are winning, St. Louis is winning, and The Reds got shutout on their last game today.

Well, this has been a greeeaaattt day so far for me.

Reds Fanatic
09-28-2011, 09:35 PM
Red Sox game now in a rain delay in the 7th

Reds Fanatic
09-28-2011, 10:49 PM
Wow. Dan Johnson just homered with 2 outs in the 9th. The Rays are now tied with the Yankees. They have scored 7 the last 2 innings to tie it

MrCinatit
09-28-2011, 10:52 PM
Wow. Even should the Rays lose today and the Sox win...the Rays deserve one large salute. Simply...wow.

signalhome
09-28-2011, 10:53 PM
Absolutely amazing comeback. So exciting.

MikeThierry
09-28-2011, 10:55 PM
Man this is crazy stuff. Have any of you all ever seen a situation where two playoff spots are open on the last day of the year?

Reds Fanatic
09-28-2011, 10:56 PM
Red Sox game is about to resume from the rain delay

Reds Fanatic
09-28-2011, 11:00 PM
Rangers won so the AL playoff match ups will be the Tigers-Yankees and whoever wins the WC against the Rangers

The Operator
09-29-2011, 12:00 AM
Blown save by Papelbon! 3-3 tie in Baltimore. Heck yea!

Reds Fanatic
09-29-2011, 12:01 AM
At the same time in TB the Yankees had 1st and 3rd with no outs in the 12th and did not score

The Operator
09-29-2011, 12:01 AM
What makes me even hapiper, is it was only moments ago that Rick Sutcliffe, who I believe to be a pompous blowhard, was gushing about Papelbon, saying things like "I can tell by the look in his eyes there's no way he'll give this up."

Blown save!

The Operator
09-29-2011, 12:02 AM
Orioles win! Holy moses!

The Operator
09-29-2011, 12:06 AM
Longoria lines a homer to left field and The Rays have won!

Yes!

mdccclxix
09-29-2011, 12:06 AM
WHAT?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reds Fanatic
09-29-2011, 12:06 AM
Wow Longoria with a walk off homer!

The Operator
09-29-2011, 12:07 AM
This almost makes up for The Cardinals making the playoffs. Wow.

OnBaseMachine
09-29-2011, 12:07 AM
Amazing!

Guacarock
09-29-2011, 12:08 AM
Fun! Fun! Fun!

Johnny Footstool
09-29-2011, 12:09 AM
Best 5 minutes of baseball in a long, long time.

MrCinatit
09-29-2011, 12:16 AM
That is what baseball is all about. As far as I am concerned, no other sports has the consistent potential for a home stretch - and home stretch drama such as this - at the end of the season. Tonight, we saw not one but two of baseball's greatest comebacks in the Cardinals and the Rays.

RedsManRick
09-29-2011, 12:17 AM
Wow. That was crazy. Going to be a looooooooooooooooooooooong offseason in beantown.

Chip R
09-29-2011, 12:17 AM
Best 5 minutes of baseball in a long, long time.

Agreed, Johnny.

RED VAN HOT
09-29-2011, 12:21 AM
Wow. That was crazy. Going to be a looooooooooooooooooooooong offseason in beantown.

It will no doubt revive talk of a second wild card team, and perhaps, the return of the curse.

HeatherC1212
09-29-2011, 12:23 AM
WOOOO ORIOLES!!!!! Can't believe they did that tonight!! I have a few dear friends that are Boston fans who I feel awful for right now but what a game for the Orioles! This is the closest that team has come to playing any meaningful baseball in September and they just helped throw things for a total loop. Go O's!! :jump:

So happy for the Rays too! They earned that spot the hard way tonight!! Hope they carry that momentum over because they're a fun team to watch play. Good luck Rays!! :D

What a night! I'm just watching the AL stuff this year...screw the NL playoffs, LOL :p

mdccclxix
09-29-2011, 12:32 AM
WOOOO ORIOLES!!!!! Can't believe they did that tonight!! I have a few dear friends that are Boston fans who I feel awful for right now but what a game for the Orioles! This is the closest that team has come to playing any meaningful baseball in September and they just helped throw things for a total loop. Go O's!! :jump:

So happy for the Rays too! They earned that spot the hard way tonight!! Hope they carry that momentum over because they're a fun team to watch play. Good luck Rays!! :D

What a night! I'm just watching the AL stuff this year...screw the NL playoffs, LOL :p

Yeah, it's been rough sledding in Baltimore, this was a great thing for that team and it's fans. They wielded some power.

redsfan30
09-29-2011, 12:32 AM
Absolutely incredible drama! Definetly the best night of baseball in a very long time.

cincrazy
09-29-2011, 12:34 AM
Well, I wasn't alive to witness the birth of the Curse of the Bambino. But I can tell my grandkids that I witnessed the Curse of the Andino begin. What an incredible night of baseball.

westofyou
09-29-2011, 12:36 AM
It's been Bucky Dent kinda September in the Northeast

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wkfYZdxw0Ng/TV7HMb41GdI/AAAAAAAABcU/djvKh1LpdoM/s320/dent.jpg

The Operator
09-29-2011, 12:44 AM
Yeah, it's been rough sledding in Baltimore, this was a great thing for that team and it's fans. They wielded some power.You could tell they loved the fact that they just knocked Boston out of the playoffs. They were celebrating like they just won the pennant. It was awesome.

WVRedsFan
09-29-2011, 12:55 AM
I jumped off my chair, too. Poor Fox. We won't have to hear about the Red Sox for awhile. Good times.

MikeThierry
09-29-2011, 01:10 AM
That was absolutely amazing. I jumped out of my chair as well.

Brutus
09-29-2011, 01:13 AM
I'm really not sure what's more amazing: that there was this kind of drama in the two wildcard races on the final night or that both teams that won were back 9 games to start September...

MikeThierry
09-29-2011, 01:16 AM
I'm really not sure what's more amazing: that there was this kind of drama in the two wildcard races on the final night or that both teams that won were back 9 games to start September...

I think what was amazing about it is the timing. I was watching the Boston game after watching some of the festivities in Houston and saw Papelbon blow that save. It was great seeing the Orioles celebrate like they won something important. What was even funnier was seeing Buck on the sidelines have this wry smile on his face, knowing he screwed over the Red Sox. I switch over to the MLB network and right then Longo hits that homerun. I have never seen that number of events happen in baseball almost perfect timing and fashion. Truly amazing. :)

blumj
09-29-2011, 01:56 AM
Good for the Rays, they earned it and deserve it, and the Red Sox got exactly what they deserved, too. I think I'm as relieved that I don't have to watch them anymore as I am disappointed in them.

dougdirt
09-29-2011, 02:13 AM
This was me about 2 minutes after Longoria hit his walk off
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/310655_10150301301941640_504351639_8412223_2141296 724_n.jpg

My skin was hurting from the goosebumps I had.

Ron Madden
09-29-2011, 03:41 AM
That is what baseball is all about. As far as I am concerned, no other sports has the consistent potential for a home stretch - and home stretch drama such as this - at the end of the season. Tonight, we saw not one but two of baseball's greatest comebacks in the Cardinals and the Rays.

Agreed. :thumbup:

Ron Madden
09-29-2011, 03:47 AM
Good for the Rays, they earned it and deserve it, and the Red Sox got exactly what they deserved, too. I think I'm as relieved that I don't have to watch them anymore as I am disappointed in them.

Do you think there is any chance that Terry Francona mightl lose his job?

RedsBaron
09-29-2011, 07:01 AM
Do you think there is any chance that Terry Francona mightl lose his job?

I've heard rumors to that effect, but Francona is the first Red Sox manager to win a World Series since Ed Barrow in 1918. Bill Carrigan (1915-16) is the only Red Sox skipper to match Francona with two World Championships. I wonder if that would be a good move.

blumj
09-29-2011, 07:42 AM
Do you think there is any chance that Terry Francona mightl lose his job?
I don't know, I guess he could, that's what teams do when things like this happen. But who would they imagine they could get to do better?

Benihana
09-29-2011, 08:58 AM
Do you think there is any chance that Terry Francona mightl lose his job?

I've heard that he probably will.

Good news for us is hopefully this means Epstein and Freidman stay put and don't go to the Cubs.

fearofpopvol1
09-29-2011, 01:32 PM
I've heard that he probably will.

Good news for us is hopefully this means Epstein and Freidman stay put and don't go to the Cubs.

I think he'll keep his job, but if they bomb again next season he's definitely a goner.

fearofpopvol1
09-29-2011, 01:33 PM
this is the BEST!!

http://www.nesn.com/2011/01/2011-red-sox-will-challenge-1927-yankees-for-title-of-greatest-team-in-major-league-history.html

cumberlandreds
09-29-2011, 02:04 PM
this is the BEST!!

http://www.nesn.com/2011/01/2011-red-sox-will-challenge-1927-yankees-for-title-of-greatest-team-in-major-league-history.html (http://www.nesn.com/2011/01/2011-red-sox-will-challenge-1927-yankees-for-title-of-greatest-team-in-major-league-history.html)



:laugh:

bucksfan2
09-29-2011, 02:59 PM
As much as I hated to see it, the teams that advanced are better poised to be competitive in the playoffs than the teams that lost. If you combined the Red Sox and Braves rotation you would have had 2 starting pitchers who you would have given a shot to win. Outside of Lester and Hudson both clubs rotation was in shambles. The Braves were either ineffective or injured, and the Sox had a little bit if injury as well as a bunch of bad.

Both teams were trying to prolong their epic flame outs for another 3 games.

RedsManRick
09-29-2011, 03:29 PM
this is the BEST!!

http://www.nesn.com/2011/01/2011-red-sox-will-challenge-1927-yankees-for-title-of-greatest-team-in-major-league-history.html

Obviously the premise was a stretch, but the Sox season really highlights:

1) The importance of health.
2) The amount of "randomness" there is in player performance.
3) Given the above, a team's quality changes, sometimes dramatically, based on it's composition at any given point in time.

The "which team is the best" question cannot be answered solely on the basis of aggregate performance to date. That's certainly the best starting point, but you have to adjust for current realities. That applies at the player level as well. That said, we shouldn't fall in to the trap of thinking recent performance is thus more predictive of the immediate future. Rather, that there are underlying conditions, such as health, that drive performance and which fluctuate over the course of a season. And we should be very careful about what we put in that "conditions" bucket -- "hot" and "cold" are very often illusions of randomness rather than real, if temporary, changes in ability.

traderumor
09-29-2011, 04:03 PM
The only thing that I could think of that compared to what happened last night is the first two rounds of March Madness. It was just incredible how fast things were changing and how dramatically they changed.

crazybob60
09-29-2011, 04:19 PM
MLB Network did a fantastic job of covering the action last night. I am glad that Dish Network picked up the channel here within the last month or so.

Chip R
09-29-2011, 11:59 PM
MLB Network did a fantastic job of covering the action last night. I am glad that Dish Network picked up the channel here within the last month or so.

They did but I couldn't watch it when it was going back and forth between 3 games. I had to settle on one and change the channel at my own pace.

This may be the last we see of any kind of pennant races as we know them. If they add another wild card, a scenario like last night would not have been possible. Tampa Bay and BOS and StL and ATL both get in. Fantastic. Would have been an artificial one game playoff? Possibly but if StL and TB knew they would have been the 2nd wild cards, would they have played as hard as they did down the stretch?

Ron Madden
09-30-2011, 05:59 AM
I've heard rumors to that effect, but Francona is the first Red Sox manager to win a World Series since Ed Barrow in 1918. Bill Carrigan (1915-16) is the only Red Sox skipper to match Francona with two World Championships. I wonder if that would be a good move.

I don't really think Francona deserves to be or will be fired but you never know.

Ron Madden
09-30-2011, 06:16 AM
I don't know, I guess he could, that's what teams do when things like this happen. But who would they imagine they could get to do better?

I know you are a big Red Sox Fan and just thought I'd ask for your opinion.

I doubt that they fire Francona and if they did they would probably just replace him with someone with the same mindset. Most MLB managers share the same old school beliefs, so in my opinion they would be better off holding on to Francona and adding some pitching.