PDA

View Full Version : Sept. 22, 2011: Grade Jocketty's tenure so far (A-F)



WMR
09-22-2011, 11:29 AM
A
B
C
D
F

Does Jocketty earn a passing grade from you for his work so far as Reds GM? Why or why not?

Anonymous voting.

REDREAD
09-22-2011, 11:38 AM
Based on his entire body of work (not just this year)

He gets an A, for winning the division title last year.

That's something that hasn't been done in Cincy since 1995 (when the payroll disparity wasn't so bad).

I know everyone is down about this year, but the team has a bright future for at least 2 more years..

bucksfan2
09-22-2011, 11:59 AM
A as well from me.

Playoff baseball for the first time in 15 seasons gets that grade.

I am kinda glad he held onto Alonso and that his bat "should" be in the lineup next season.

This off season he must improve the club. And if he doesn't it could really effect his grade from me.

marcshoe
09-22-2011, 12:15 PM
B. He has the team on the verge, but not there yet. Things look good for the future.

Mario-Rijo
09-22-2011, 01:00 PM
I can no longer grade the man from an overall perspective, I have no idea how handcuffed he may be. Let me just say I believe in his ability to GM the right club, one with resources and good talent evaluators to support him. But he isn't a good fit for a small market club with owners who aren't real adept at putting the right people in place. So I'll grade him by his skills that I have seen.

He's basically the exact opposite of Wayne Krivsky. Wayne sucked with people, Walt is maybe the best I have ever seen at handling people. Walt handles contracts well, Wayne I'll give an incomplete on at best. Walt simply has never impressed me with his ability to evaluate a non known commodity. And IMO the latter is thee most important trait to have, if you don't have that you better have the former 2 and a great organization with deep pockets to support you.

RedsManRick
09-22-2011, 01:09 PM
Assuming that he has a significant amount of control, I gave him a 'C'.

I'm thrilled we made the playoffs last year. But he came in to a very good situation and that team was largely one he merely shepherded. Most of the talent on the roster was already here. Unfortunately, 2011 became a lost year in large part due to his inaction and lack of creativity. We could have reinforced; instead we (presumably) hoped the young players would take another leap forward to offset some of (presumably) expected regression from the veterans. Maybe, in the long run, we'll be happy we hung on to all the minor league assets. But the Arroyo extension in particular signaled to me that Walt felt we pretty much had the talent we needed and was willing to sit tight. It reminds me a little too much of the Mariners big miscalculation a few years back.

For me, 2012 will really cement the story of this era. Was 2010 the peak or was 2011 a bump in the road?

OnBaseMachine
09-22-2011, 01:09 PM
He gets a D from me. Hopefully he wakes up from his 18 month long nap this winter.

Raisor
09-22-2011, 01:24 PM
He gets a D from me. Hopefully he wakes up from his 18 month long nap this winter.

I'm right there with you buddy.

icehole3
09-22-2011, 01:27 PM
I gave him a solid B, this year drafting 11 pitchers out of the first 15 was brilliant, they should do that every year IMO. :)

Edd Roush
09-22-2011, 01:33 PM
Assuming that he has a significant amount of control, I gave him a 'C'.

I'm thrilled we made the playoffs last year. But he came in to a very good situation and that team was largely one he merely shepherded. Most of the talent on the roster was already here. Unfortunately, 2011 became a lost year in large part due to his inaction and lack of creativity. We could have reinforced; instead we (presumably) hoped the young players would take another leap forward to offset some of (presumably) expected regression from the veterans. Maybe, in the long run, we'll be happy we hung on to all the minor league assets. But the Arroyo extension in particular signaled to me that Walt felt we pretty much had the talent we needed and was willing to sit tight. It reminds me a little too much of the Mariners big miscalculation a few years back.

For me, 2012 will really cement the story of this era. Was 2010 the peak or was 2011 a bump in the road?


Rick, you did a good job of articulating what I was thinking. I had very high hopes for Walt and he started out great and I would have given him an A at this time last year, but I don't know if we can blame this very average year on bad luck. An "A" GM would have made the appropriate moves in the off-season and paid for it by not extending Arroyo.

bucksfan2
09-22-2011, 03:02 PM
Assuming that he has a significant amount of control, I gave him a 'C'.

I'm thrilled we made the playoffs last year. But he came in to a very good situation. Most of the talent on the roster was already here. And unfortunately, 2011 became a lost year in large part due to his inaction and lack of creativity. Maybe, in the long run, we'll be happy we hung on to all the minor league assets. But the Arroyo extension in particular signaled to me that Walt felt we pretty much had the talent we needed and was willing to sit tight.

For me, 2012 will really cement the story of this era. Was 2010 the peak or was 2011 a bump in the road?

The playoffs alone put me over the top with his grade. He did come into a nice situation but then again there are very few teams devoid of talent. The good GM's use what they have and then add to it. I look back to last year and realized they aren't winning the division without Nick Masset, Miguel Cairo, and Ramon Hernandez. And that isn't even getting into the Scott Rolen addition.

2012 is a very important year for the club. The past 18 months have been pretty lackluster. Although I think you can say that the contract extensions of both Cueto and Bruce were two huge positives as well as Volquez's ill fated decision. For the most part the young guys have been allowed to progress through the minors and onto the big league club. Alonso has shown to have a quality MLB caliber bat, Francisco has shown to have improved, Heisey has made an argument to be something more than a 4th OF, and Sappelt has proven to be a nice guy to have around. But more importantly moves must be made to make this team better. Something needs to be done with the current rotation. It also would be nice to get another live arm in the pen, especially if Chapman is moving into the rotation. If they do a little tweaking then if they fail it will be on Walt and Dusty.

Roy Tucker
09-22-2011, 03:16 PM
Assuming that he has a significant amount of control, I gave him a 'C'.

I'm thrilled we made the playoffs last year. But he came in to a very good situation and that team was largely one he merely shepherded. Most of the talent on the roster was already here. Unfortunately, 2011 became a lost year in large part due to his inaction and lack of creativity. We could have reinforced; instead we (presumably) hoped the young players would take another leap forward to offset some of (presumably) expected regression from the veterans. Maybe, in the long run, we'll be happy we hung on to all the minor league assets. But the Arroyo extension in particular signaled to me that Walt felt we pretty much had the talent we needed and was willing to sit tight. It reminds me a little too much of the Mariners big miscalculation a few years back.

For me, 2012 will really cement the story of this era. Was 2010 the peak or was 2011 a bump in the road?

That's my take as well.

I loved last year and WJ can take some credit and I'll give him a 2010 A.

But he did a Bill Bergesch this year and really sat on his thumbs way too long and pretty well flushed the season down the toilet with inaction. So I'll give him a 2011 D.

Average it out to a C or a C+. 2012 will tell if this is an ascending or descending arc.

Rojo
09-22-2011, 03:37 PM
Walt simply has never impressed me with his ability to evaluate a non known commodity. And IMO the latter is thee most important trait to have, if you don't have that you better have the former 2 and a great organization with deep pockets to support you.

Or as Princeton put so aptly the Minnesota model plus money was a better idea than the St. Louis model minus money.

For years, when people were pining for WJ, I made the point that I'd rather have the Card's marketing department. Similar markets, different results.

RANDY IN INDY
09-22-2011, 03:40 PM
That's my take as well.

I loved last year and WJ can take some credit and I'll give him a 2010 A.

But he did a Bill Bergesch this year and really sat on his thumbs way too long and pretty well flushed the season down the toilet with inaction. So I'll give him a 2011 D.

Average it out to a C or a C+. 2012 will tell if this is an ascending or descending arc.

That's where I am too, Roy.:beerme: My only difference is what he didn't do this season may pay dividends this winter and next year. He has a lot resting on his shoulders this off-season, in my opinion. It's time to show us something.

lollipopcurve
09-22-2011, 03:47 PM
B

Berkman or Greinke would have been nice. But that's not all on WJ -- ownership has to help. Then again, they got Chapman.

Other than that, I think they've shown excellent patience getting this wave of talent more or less through AAA, ready for the bigs. As Randy said, now it's time to do something. I suspect they will.

mth123
09-22-2011, 08:39 PM
D. Inherited a team on the verge of growing up to be good and sat around and waited. Didn't do much to improve the team he inherited and wasted one year of this team's talent zenith. They will never be as good talent wise as they are with this current group that includes soon to be gone Phillips and Votto. He did little to capitalize on the situation he was given.

Redhook
09-22-2011, 10:02 PM
D. Inherited a team on the verge of growing up to be good and sat around and waited. Didn't do much to improve the team he inherited and wasted one year of this team's talent zenith. They will never be as good talent wise as they are with this current group that includes soon to be gone Phillips and Votto. He did little to capitalize on the situation he was given.

D for me too. He has flat-out stunk with his inactivity and failure to make the team better. Hoping every young player improves is not the way to improve a team.

He has a lot to do this off-season to put this team in prime position for a great 2012. I have 0% confidence he can pull it off. I hope he proves me wrong, but I'm sure he won't.

RANDY IN INDY
09-23-2011, 12:41 PM
I don't think Phillips is going anywhere soon.

TRF
09-23-2011, 12:48 PM
C. Failed to realize age and injury would limit Rolen. Failed to get a decent LF (really, how hard is that?) gave away Dunn for essentially nothing (I'd have preferred draft picks to the dreck the Reds got), Has not acquired a single decent SP. Failed to get a SS.

The Reds won a division built from a core all the previous GM's built going back to Bowden. Walt added to it, as any GM would, but his contribution was fairly minimal overall.

Rojo
09-23-2011, 01:59 PM
Has not acquired a single decent SP.

He drafted Leake. With the picks we see again Mario-Rijo's "known quantity" theory. In Leake and Alonso, WJ picked guys who were easily projectible -- a polished starter with middling stuff and good command and a slow 1B/DH with a decent bat. I wouldn't have picked either one. But I would've been wrong. There's something to be said for simply not wasting your first round pick on magic beans.

The problem is that I don't think the collect-and-retain-vets method will play as well with this team's budget.

RedsManRick
09-23-2011, 02:06 PM
C. Failed to realize age and injury would limit Rolen. Failed to get a decent LF (really, how hard is that?) gave away Dunn for essentially nothing (I'd have preferred draft picks to the dreck the Reds got), Has not acquired a single decent SP. Failed to get a SS.

The Reds won a division built from a core all the previous GM's built going back to Bowden. Walt added to it, as any GM would, but his contribution was fairly minimal overall.

There was a very distinct possibility of Dunn accepting arbitration and thus a likelihood that the Reds would not have offered him arb, which means no picks. The D'Backs did not end up offering him arbitration.

I too was disappointed in the return, but I think many of us (myself certainly included) over-estimated the value Dunn had in the trade market.

thatcoolguy_22
09-23-2011, 02:25 PM
D

Pros
-Kept core intact
-Signed Chapman
-Traded for Rolen
-Reportedly aggressive in his pursuit of Cliff Lee (who knows if they could have resigned him)


Cons
-Signed Rolen/Arroyo to albatross contracts (Iknow a lot was deferred but... really?!)
-Chapman as a middle reliever
-I think he has been late on minor league promotions
-Dependence on tweener major league talent (LF and SS problems run rampant)



This off season will be telling. There is a lot of money coming off of the books and a reported (slight) increase in the budget. Decisions must be made about Cordero and some marginal arbitration talent. The minor leaguers will be looking for the promotion and there is a clamor for a possible trade of Votto. The 2011/12 offseason will leave a lasting impact on the Reds for the next few years.

kaldaniels
09-23-2011, 02:44 PM
I get the logic of everyone who graded him higher than a D. I don't agree that he gets an automatic A for the division crown. But a D to me is a solid "below average". I have a hard time giving him that especially since he rolled the dice on Rolen (not a huge gamble, but it certainly could have gone terrible in 2010) and came up a division title because of it. Like Rick said 2012 will tell us alot. But a D...nah. (I would give him a D on the 2011 season, including the past offseason, but 2010 bumps his grade back up)

I give him a B-, going from a C to a B- due to the 2010 Central title.

Superdude
09-23-2011, 02:45 PM
I'll go "C" for now. Not at all thrilled with his work and I give him very little credit for what happened in 2010, but he's yet to make any debilitating moves. Actually executing a sensible plan this offseason would go a long way in restoring my faith that he couldn't be replaced by a cactus in a suit.

Reds/Flyers Fan
09-23-2011, 03:10 PM
Solid D from me. The lack of any action whatsoever from him the past two years is reminiscent of the class slacker who everyone says is smart but is so bored in school that he's just coasting by, totally wasting his talent.

TRF
09-23-2011, 03:19 PM
There was a very distinct possibility of Dunn accepting arbitration and thus a likelihood that the Reds would not have offered him arb, which means no picks. The D'Backs did not end up offering him arbitration.

I too was disappointed in the return, but I think many of us (myself certainly included) over-estimated the value Dunn had in the trade market.

yeah, that Dunn 2009 season would have sucked.

reds44
09-23-2011, 03:22 PM
B. Probably would have went C+ if it was an option.