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FireDusty
09-23-2011, 02:11 PM
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/daugherty/2011/09/23/the-morning-line-923/

Sample:

"* A QUESTION: Are the Cardinals really that much better than the Reds?

What I mean is, is the 25-man roster there (or 40-man, makes no difference) really a full 10 games superior to the roster here?

You say Pujols, I say Votto. Berkman = Bruce. Their starting staff hasnt had its best pitcher all year. C. Carpenter chugs along, OK-ly. The rest is far from imposing. Jason Motte/Coco Cordero… who’d you rather have? Theriot or DatDude? Cards are clearly better at LF and C. Reds clearly superior at 2B. Reds have a slightly better bullpen. The rest is a wash. If you want to give Looie a slight edge in starting pitching, OK, but Westbrook, Lohse, Garcia isnt significantly better than Arroyo, Bailey, Leake. And Cueto is better than anyone St. Louis runs out there."

P-Doc

My Take: Does anyone else not sense the point the Doc is trying to make?

nux fan
09-23-2011, 02:20 PM
obvious point, we are managed by an anencephalic

brm7675
09-23-2011, 02:28 PM
Besides the manager point, there is an atmosphere in St. Louis of winning, and that is something a stat sheet won't reflect. Winning teams find ways to win games. Also the Cards find ways to win...it seemed this years the Reds found ways to lose.

Old NDN
09-23-2011, 03:55 PM
Besides the manager point, there is an atmosphere in St. Louis of winning, and that is something a stat sheet won't reflect. Winning teams find ways to win games. Also the Cards find ways to win...it seemed this years the Reds found ways to lose.

...plus a GM and ownership who's proactive in attempting to constantly improve their team through trades, signings, releases, etc.

brm7675
09-23-2011, 03:59 PM
...plus a GM and ownership who's proactive in attempting to constantly improve their team through trades, signings, releases, etc.

Again...until we have all the facts on the teams financial abilities you can't really compare the two.

Vottomatic
09-23-2011, 04:05 PM
Yeah, this was a wasted year for the Reds. They didn't even try and figure out what they had with the triple A guy until late in the season. They seem very lazy in any proactive attempts to assess what they have or what they need.

smixsell
09-23-2011, 04:12 PM
obvious point, we are managed by an anencephalic

Spot on.

texasdave
09-23-2011, 04:15 PM
Yeah, this was a wasted year for the Reds. They didn't even try and figure out what they had with the triple A guy until late in the season. They seem very lazy in any proactive attempts to assess what they have or what they need.

I agree. Pretty much wasted. Did basically nothing over the winter to add talent. Team struggles and nothing. 2011 was the year to go for it. Hope they bounce back in 2012 but I don't see them having enough.

nux fan
09-23-2011, 04:16 PM
the whole goal of senescent managers like faker is to move the calendar one more year and milf the system for another year with his tired useless homilies and homepsun stupidity

Stray
09-23-2011, 05:20 PM
Dusty has had a bad year, but most of our problems fall back to the problems some people on this board saw coming from a mile away. He could have handled the bullpen much better, but how many games did we lose because our guys couldn't hit a sac fly?

Our best player went the entire year without protection, and as a result he leads all of baseball in walks. We spent the majority of the year with 3 black holes in our lineup...it's safe to say the Janish experiment failed. Our pitching has been inconsistent at best. 2 out of our 5 starters are an injury waiting to happen with Bailey and Cueto. Plus our only reliable guy was playing hurt. Our opening day starter spent most of the year in the minors and Wood also got demoted. Our bullpen got overworked hardcore early in the year with Arroyo being awful and the rest of the inconsistencies.

I don't think the manager is worth the amount of wins/losses that it would matter this season. I'm of the belief that from the top down everyone has their share of being bad.

Looking ahead to 2012 I think it's safe to say that we'll get better production from LF, SS, and 3B. If that is true then offensively we will be fine. It doesn't answer the #4 hole...but since Walt said we aren't going after anyone I just hope Alonso can do it.

If our rotation can stay healthy we'll be contenders next year, if they can't the trickle down effect that we saw this year will be our demise. Just my 0.02

nux fan
09-23-2011, 05:34 PM
agree

texasdave
09-23-2011, 07:58 PM
If our rotation can stay healthy we'll be contenders next year, if they can't the trickle down effect that we saw this year will be our demise. Just my 0.02

If you look around baseball and who got starts, I would think the logical conclusion is that Reds starters were comparatively healthy. Of course, I count Arroyo as being healthy since he didn't miss a start. Now if someone would argue he wasn't healthy and was hurting the club by running out there, I could see their point. But that is on the manager. But it does fit in well with the Reds manager's "inmates run the asylum" managerial philosophy.

brm7675
09-23-2011, 08:14 PM
If you look around baseball and who got starts, I would think the logical conclusion is that Reds starters were comparatively healthy. Of course, I count Arroyo as being healthy since he didn't miss a start. Now if someone would argue he wasn't healthy and was hurting the club by running out there, I could see their point. But that is on the manager. But it does fit in well with the Reds manager's "inmates run the asylum" managerial philosophy.

Cueto missed what almost a month, Homer was on teh DL how long and there is no way, especially with the horrible summer weather Bronson was ever 100%. I would say only Leake and Wood were 100% healthy the entire season....

Stray
09-23-2011, 08:31 PM
If you look around baseball and who got starts, I would think the logical conclusion is that Reds starters were comparatively healthy. Of course, I count Arroyo as being healthy since he didn't miss a start. Now if someone would argue he wasn't healthy and was hurting the club by running out there, I could see their point. But that is on the manager. But it does fit in well with the Reds manager's "inmates run the asylum" managerial philosophy.

Healthy might have been a bad way to put it. Out of the guys that were going to be a part of our rotation going into the year, we've had issues with 5 of them. 6 if you include Leake getting busted for shoplifting and demoted.

All of the shuffling with injuries and bad starts destroyed our bullpen. To be contenders in 2012 I believe we need much more consistency there. Offensively we are what we are..without major changes it isn't going to change. We'll score a lot of runs and we'll strike out in key situations. We'll have more than enough to win a lot of games though...imo.

BurgervilleBuck
09-23-2011, 10:03 PM
Besides the manager point, there is an atmosphere in St. Louis of winning, and that is something a stat sheet won't reflect. Winning teams find ways to win games. Also the Cards find ways to win...it seemed this years the Reds found ways to lose.


...plus a GM and ownership who's proactive in attempting to constantly improve their team through trades, signings, releases, etc.

Not to mention, the grass there is really, really green!

redssince75
09-23-2011, 11:53 PM
Berkman = Bruce.


lol, uh, no. Berkman is clutch.

texasdave
09-24-2011, 01:28 AM
Cueto missed what almost a month, Homer was on teh DL how long and there is no way, especially with the horrible summer weather Bronson was ever 100%. I would say only Leake and Wood were 100% healthy the entire season....

Did anyone say the Reds starters missed no starts? Every team has starters that miss them. I would think the Reds, compared to the rest of the league, was relatively healthy.

Bronson was healthy the whole year. He didn't miss a start. If they sent him out there 31 times when he wasn't healthy that is on REDS MISMANAGEMENT.