Just how Bad has Jay Bruce been? Answer- Horrible

[IWasBornInCincy]

April: .228 Avg and .681 OPS
May: .342 Avg and 1.140 OPS
June: .217 Avg and .649 OPS
July: .256 Avg and .800 OPS
August: .238 Avg and .825 OPS
September . 233 Avg and .703 OPS.

If you take away 5 weeks (Fluke May and his fluke week in August-- Player of the month and week for both)

The other 428 At bats this season (23 Weeks) Bruce is hitting .223 with 14 Homers, 46 RBI, 43 Runs and a impressive .730 OPS. He is also going to strike out around 165 Times. Thats 1 per game.

Also - Bruce has Significantly lower OBP/AVG/SLG/OPS than his numbers last year. Kid is actually getting worse.

[IWasBornInCincy]

In football, if a RB ends the season with 1200 yards and 10 Tds in 15 Starts...that is consered an above average season.

However, if that RB had 275 yards 2TDs in one game, 225 Yards 3 TDs in another, and for the other 13 games he had 700 Yards and 5 TDs....that is a very poor season and a very poor producing RB (53 yard average for 13 of the 15 starts). That is what Jay Bruce has done.

[CWRed]

By all means just discredit, oh about 130 at bats. Absurd.

He is down somewhat this year but come on.

When he's good it's a fluke. When he's bad he just sucks. Makes sense. This team has problems. Jay Bruce is not one of them. :thumbdown:

[powersackers]

Geesh, an .800 OPS season is a fine season for someone 24 years old. Slicing it up is just silly. Can't wait to look this post up again in 4 years and LOL.

[IWasBornInCincy]

See my analogy, it is spot on. He has had a horrid season

[IWasBornInCincy]

Lol. That is what fans were saying 4 years ago as well...it never ends. He is getting worse, folks. and 2012 will be his 5th full year in the majors.

[brm7675]

See my analogy, it is spot on. He has had a horrid season

Your right 31 Home runs and how 94 RBI's, 25 doubles are just horrible....horrible...horrilbe

Also why is May and the week in August a fluke?

thankfully those who know, know better and the kid is signed up for a while at reasonable monies...

[powersackers]

Through age 23, Jay most closely resembles some HoF'ers, and a ton of All Stars. :

Willie Horton (966)
Reggie Jackson (964) *
Pete Incaviglia (964)
Barry Bonds (959)
Dick Kokos (954)
Curt Blefary (953)
Adam Dunn (953)
Jeff Burroughs (951)
Harold Baines (950)
Darryl Strawberry (949)

[Stray]

He's fine, but he's not a cleanup hitter. Not right now anyway.

[will5979]

Geesh, an .800 OPS season is a fine season for someone 24 years old. Slicing it up is just silly. Can't wait to look this post up again in 4 years and LOL.

Adam Dunn was on his way to the HoF at one point in his career as well...remember? Espn themselves predicted he would hit a career 580-some HRs if he stayed healthy, but then again they predicted KGJ to hit a career 705, glad the slow pitch lazy boys are gone! :lol:

[powersackers]

Adam Dunn was on his way to the HoF at one point in his career as well...remember? Espn themselves predicted he would hit a career 580-some HRs if he stayed healthy, but then again they predicted KGJ to hit a career 705, glad the slow pitch lazy boys are gone! :lol:

You can only go on what you've seen and what you can expect. Jr. got hurt making a ton of hustling, diving plays. Dunn got fat and slow and lazy and likes to fish more than play baseball.

Could those things happen to Bruce, Ya. They could. But no one would project anything but .800+ OPS seasons out of him for the next 6 years.

[will5979]

You can only go on what you've seen and what you can expect. Jr. got hurt making a ton of hustling, diving plays. Dunn got fat and slow and lazy and likes to fish more than play baseball.

Could those things happen to Bruce, Ya. They could. But no one would project anything but .800+ OPS seasons out of him for the next 6 years.

Jr. also hurt himself by thinking he was above working out and staying in shape, he is as much a [removed] as Dunn when it came to their attitude about playing MLB.

[IWasBornInCincy]

Jr was horrific in Cincy. Just flat out disgraceful given what he was paid. That is a fact. He was a below AVG player for his entire time in a Reds Uni.

[will5979]

Jr was horrific in Cincy. Just flat out disgraceful given what he was paid. That is a fact. He was a below AVG player for his entire time in a Reds Uni.

What is even more of a disgrace is the fact that he will someday be in the Reds HoF, and he doesn't deserve it...the MLB HoF-yes.

[IWasBornInCincy]

I also love how you [people] pretend to ignore how skewed Bruces numbers are this year...it's like it hurts you to admit the fact that in over 80% of the season, he has produced at the level of a bad bench player.

If any of you worked jobs where you were managed, or did manager, people based on monthly or weekly production....and Bruce was on your team...he would be fired.

[will5979]

I also love how you delusional homers pretend to ignore how skewed Bruces numbers are this year...it's like it hurts you to admit the fact that in over 80% of the season, he has produced at the level of a bad bench player.

If any of you worked jobs where you were managed, or did manager, people based on monthly or weekly production....and Bruce was on your team...he would be fired.

They are the same delusional homers that think Dusty will lead us to the promise land and that KGJ had a great career in Cincy.

[IWasBornInCincy]

Lol. they also still think Rolen is a good player, and the trade for him was a good one for Cincy.

[brm7675]

I also love how you delusional homers pretend to ignore how skewed Bruces numbers are this year...it's like it hurts you to admit the fact that in over 80% of the season, he has produced at the level of a bad bench player.

If any of you worked jobs where you were managed, or did manager, people based on monthly or weekly production....and Bruce was on your team...he would be fired.

Not true...

[IWasBornInCincy]

So, Bruce has been a solid player all season long? He has been consistent and not extremely streaky?

[smixsell]

Bruce and Stubbs have both missed having Edmunds in the dugout to talk hitting with like they had for 2 months last year.

If you remember both Stubbs and Bruce caught fire with both power and average when Edmonds joined the team and could be seen frequently on camera picking Edmond's brain and absorbing Edmond's instructions and demonstrations (on staying back and going the other way when necessary).

Both these young hitters are uber talented (great bat speed) but are in desperate need of good hitting instruction to reach their full potential. Last year they at least got good instruction for 2 mopnths from Edmonds, this year they have lacked it entirely.

[IWasBornInCincy]

HAHAHAHA! You think JIM EDMONDS magically cured Bruce and Stubbs from sucking. Then, they each what....Forgot the 'Amazing lessons' Edmonds gave them over the off season..then decided to Blow again?

So, lemme guess. Bruce was Texting Edmonds during May...then accidentally dropped his phone in the toilet and lost his number from June 1 - End of season.

Give me a break....you fools are desperate, and clueless.

[brm7675]

So, Bruce has been a solid player all season long? He has been consistent and not extremely streaky?

Not at all, Bruce has a way to go to be a true All star player, but unlike you I see the ability to improve...you don't.

[brm7675]

HAHAHAHA! You think JIM EDMONDS magically cured Bruce and Stubbs from sucking. Then, they each what....Forgot the 'Amazing lessons' Edmonds gave them over the off season..then decided to Blow again?

So, lemme guess. Bruce was Texting Edmonds during May...then accidentally dropped his phone in the toilet and lost his number from June 1 - End of season.

Give me a break....you fools are desperate, and clueless.

Did Bruce steal your girlfriend?

[IWasBornInCincy]

We are talking about baseball...and bad players. HOw does this effect my girlfriend? You cant stay on topic, can you?

[Stray]

You can look at just about any player in baseball and find their hot streaks and slumps. Not really newsworthy or exciting.

Everyone knows Bruce is streaky. Everyone knows Bruce strikes out too much. Everyone knows Bruce leaves a ton of guys on base (even though his avg w/risp is respectable). Nobody is saying he's a perfect player so I'm not sure why you're so amped up to overdo it and try to prove that he's awful. He's clearly not.

[smixsell]

HAHAHAHA! You think JIM EDMONDS magically cured Bruce and Stubbs from sucking. Then, they each what....Forgot the 'Amazing lessons' Edmonds gave them over the off season..then decided to Blow again?

So, lemme guess. Bruce was Texting Edmonds during May...then accidentally dropped his phone in the toilet and lost his number from June 1 - End of season.

Give me a break....you fools are desperate, and clueless.

Moron. You were obviously born in Cincy of parents who were too closely related to one another.

[IWasBornInCincy]

Votto 2011

May .370
June .291
July .320
Aug .347
Sept . 244

One off month. That is consistent

[brm7675]

Votto 2011

May .370
June .291
July .320
Aug .347
Sept . 244

One off month. That is consistent

No question Votto is a better player then Bruce now and probably will be over their career, but that doesn't mean Bruce can't learn and grow. You seem to think that Bruce has peaked and will only stay where he is at or get worse, most think he will improve.

[Stray]

Votto 2011

May .370
June .291
July .320
Aug .347
Sept . 244

One off month. That is consistent

But Votto is one of the best players in baseball. Bruce isn't anywhere near him.

[RedsFan74]

Did Bruce steal your girlfriend?

LOL +1

IWasBornInCincy - Cut back on the caffeine or something. You've been a member less than 24 hours and you've already made 15 of your 16 posts trashing a 24 year old GG-calibre RF w/ 30+ HR's and nearly 100 RBI. Sure, he has plenty of holes in his game that drive Reds fans crazy (you are a Reds fan...correct??). If I could throw a breaking ball in in the dirt, I'm pretty sure I could strike him out too. But I'm willing to give a guy who can't even rent a car in most states the benefit of the doubt. If he has another "down" year next year, then I'll start worrying. RF definitely isn't a concern for this current Reds club.

[Eric from NC]

Part of the problem is the Reds have no quality right handed hitters in the middle of the lineup. Both Votto and Bruce have faced more left handed specialists than they should have. Certainly, Votto's ability to hit consistently trumps Bruce's. I would like to see the Reds acquire for next year one quality RBI threat from the right side that could hit in the 4 or 5 position in the linup.

[Cant Touch This]

Give me a break....you fools are desperate, and clueless.


Immersed in your constant ranting, whether people agree with you or not, you make valid arguments. Not sure why you gotta be an a$$ about it, though.

[brm7675]

Immersed in your constant ranting, whether people agree with you or not, you make valid arguments. Not sure why you gotta be an a$$ about it, though.

It's like when a small kid is either told "no" or you are wrong. they throw a hissy fit. He has made statements about Bruce which are not correct or are not well thought out. He is frustrated for some reason....:confused:

[CWRed]

Valium might do the trick.

[50YrRedsFan]

I am hoping Bruce doesn't turn into a Dunn type hitter, which appears that's the way he's heading. Too many K's and many missed opportunities with RISP. But then that's a problem for many on this team....TOO MANY STRIKEOUTS! Even Votto K's 100+ times a year. If we would just put the ball in play, we would have several more wins than we do.

[brm7675]

I am hoping Bruce doesn't turn into a Dunn type hitter, which appears that's the way he's heading. Too many K's and many missed opportunities with RISP. But then that's a problem for many on this team....TOO MANY STRIKEOUTS! Even Votto K's 100+ times a year. If we would just put the ball in play, we would have several more wins than we do.

This fact alone should warrent a change in hitting coach and approach at the plate...but I don't see that happening.

[texasdave]

WLW just reported Walt's announcement that Dusty and the entire coaching staff will return in 2012, so we can put that debate to bed for now.

Same coaching, same approach, same results.

[DocRed]

WTH did Jay Bruce do to u?!?! I mean honestly of all the crappy players on this team to pick on, not to mention staff..you single out Jay Bruce?!?!? Come on.....

[brm7675]

Same coaching, same approach, same results.

Not shocked, but also concerned. I would love to see a Reds beat writer get with Walt and ask how given last years success and the results this year the entire staff can be back.

[nux fan]

thank you, we agree on that one

[James B.]

What if I said that when Bruce is not hitting well its a fluke. What we have to remember is that he is a young player that is going to have his ups and downs. That is what you get with most young players. When you start comparing players with the production of Votto, it is not going to look good. I don't think that is fair to do that.

[IWasBornInCincy]

His Good months? His Bad months are a fluke? Bruce has played for 4 years...and I think he has played 3 full months of good baseball out of like 22. What are you talking about?

[Betterread]

His Good months? His Bad months are a fluke? Bruce has played for 4 years...and I think he has played 3 full months of good baseball out of like 22. What are you talking about?

While you have a point about his inconsistency, you exaggerate the "bad" periods in comparison to the "good" periods. Remember, he's just 24. I think he has made some improvements this year at the plate and in the field. I get frustrated with his performance at times, but he is most definitely a keeper. And you know what, if his ceiling is a ML starter who is a streaky hitter, I can live with that level of performance.

[TheBigLebowski]

We are talking about baseball...and bad players. HOw does this effect my girlfriend? You cant stay on topic, can you?
never mind

[powersackers]

I am hoping Bruce doesn't turn into a Dunn type hitter, which appears that's the way he's heading. Too many K's and many missed opportunities with RISP. But then that's a problem for many on this team....TOO MANY STRIKEOUTS! Even Votto K's 100+ times a year. If we would just put the ball in play, we would have several more wins than we do.

Going into last night he was at .300 with RISP.

[Falcon7]

Not as bad as Stubbs!

Stubbs has 4 HR'S and 11 RBI'S since the end of June! Wiffs at an alarming rate, is a BONE head (no baseball instincts at all), slows down too much before he slides (negates his speed quite a bit). Never lays out to attempt a catch. Many fly balls hit in front of him, should be caught easily, but he jogs in and fields them on a hop.
Maybe he has vision and or (depth perception) problems. He drives me NUTS...

[nux fan]

if he wasnt a first round pick he would have beenreleased by any other organization

[FireDusty]

I also love how you [people] pretend to ignore how skewed Bruces numbers are this year...it's like it hurts you to admit the fact that in over 80% of the season, he has produced at the level of a bad bench player.

If any of you worked jobs where you were managed, or did manager, people based on monthly or weekly production....and Bruce was on your team...he would be fired.

If you take away most players best production time frames, the other numbers look bad.

If a guy gets 200 hits in 600 at bats and you point out the 400 at bats that he made outs, you would look like an idiot, which you do.

Now, does Bruce need to become more constistent? Yes. Taking away a month of someones stats to support your opinion that he has been "horrible" is misleading and convenient for someone trying to point to stats to make a point.

My frustration with Bruce is his approach. That points to leadership. The real issue is the overall philosophy that the parent club takes to hitting.

[FireDusty]

His Good months? His Bad months are a fluke? Bruce has played for 4 years...and I think he has played 3 full months of good baseball out of like 22. What are you talking about?When is the last time you got laid?

My thinking is that the statute of limitations is up and you are now officially a virgin again.

[nux fan]

for someone to complain about bruce when that abject abomination stubbs continues to play is beyond belief

[Krawhitham]

If you take away 5 weeks (Fluke May and his fluke week in August-- Player of the month and week for both)


May 1st - 17th he batted .255 (4hr 13RBI) Reds went 11-4 during that time

May 18th - 31st he batted .429 (8hr 20RBI) Reds went 3-11 during that time

So when he was hot the Reds were not winning

Looking closer Bruce really only had 3 good weeks this season with 2 of them wasted on only 3 Reds' wins

Without those 2 weeks in May and the one week in August Bruce hit .225 on the season

Just Saying

[Krawhitham]

By all means just discredit, oh about 130 at bats. Absurd.


85 at bats

[Krawhitham]

Jr was horrific in Cincy. Just flat out disgraceful given what he was paid. That is a fact. He was a below AVG player for his entire time in a Reds Uni.

6th all time in HR for Reds
23rd all time in RBI for Reds

that is out of 1844 players


Yep below average

[Krawhitham]

What is even more of a disgrace is the fact that he will someday be in the Reds HoF, and he doesn't deserve it...the MLB HoF-yes.

see post above

[Krawhitham]

Lol. they also still think Rolen is a good player, and the trade for him was a good one for Cincy.

How is Edwin doing this year


17hr .275 AVG

and making 1/3 what Rolen does

[nux fan]

rolen should have been released after one year, the first of half of last year was a miracle, the second half of last year and the playoffs is what rolen is, and to think that the "brain trust" batted him as protection for the best hitter in baseball shows a concrete example of the peter principle, these idiots running this team

[bubbachunk]

Is Jay Bruce really any different from last year? Simple answer, no!

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/bubbachunkrr/JayBruceOPSbymonth.jpg

The above chart is a control chart of Jay Bruce's Ops by month. The control limits are based on his 2010 season and the 12 points are in chronological order. Now this is not the best way to do this because of unequal subgroup sizes but it is late and I wanted to throw something together. It should really be done by plate appearances no greater than 15 in a row. I may do that tomorrow.

By the way, the only thing that semi looks like anything is the last four months, with 4 points below the grand average, but really you need 8 points below that line before you worry about if something has changed.