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View Full Version : Moneyball was good



vic715
09-23-2011, 05:12 PM
If you like pure baseball movies and into the concept of stats then its definitly a good movie to see.

BCubb2003
09-23-2011, 06:07 PM
It would have been better if they had cast an actor whose skills were undervalued by the rest of the Hollywood ...

Actually, I loved it. It's like a chick flick for guys. And Brad Pitt made it work, instead of it being a weird idea for a movie that could never be made.

There's one scene where I thought Billy Beane was going to call them "lollygaggers!"

Marty's in it. And Joe Morgan (or somebody meant to be him) has more lines than just about anybody.

I can't wait for the sequel: "Hatteberg: The Cincinnati Years"

Cedric
09-23-2011, 06:23 PM
I'm curious now to how they got Marty into this story.

dougdirt
09-23-2011, 06:33 PM
I honestly thought it was ok at best. I saw it a few weeks ago and wasn't really impressed by it. Maybe I expected more or something better.

blumj
09-23-2011, 07:07 PM
I haven't seen it, but it's weird how dated the book already seems.

westofyou
09-23-2011, 07:19 PM
I'm not a fan of sports movie myself, but boy Jason Whilock came off as a major league arse in his article on it. What a pudz

signalhome
09-23-2011, 07:25 PM
I'm not a fan of sports movie myself, but boy Jason Whilock came off as a major league arse in his article on it. What a pudz

Would you expect anything more from him?

westofyou
09-23-2011, 07:28 PM
Would you expect anything more from him?

Well he writes about football and basketball mostly and I don't follow those sports so I haven't read too much by him. But he really layed an egg talking about baseball.

dougdirt
09-23-2011, 07:34 PM
I'm not a fan of sports movie myself, but boy Jason Whilock came off as a major league arse in his article on it. What a pudz

Thanks for making me have to look that up and then losing an IQ point or two while reading it....

signalhome
09-23-2011, 07:36 PM
Well he writes about football and basketball mostly and I don't follow those sports so I haven't read too much by him. But he really layed an egg talking about baseball.

Don't worry, you haven't missed much. I've read quite a few of his football articles and they were always beyond idiotic. It isn't surprising to see the same extending to baseball as well.

BCubb2003
09-23-2011, 07:45 PM
I know the real story was more nuanced than the book made it sound, and the book was more complicated than the movie could tell, but I thought the movie did a good job of telling an arcane story. And the audience in the theater applauded afterward.

Screwball
09-23-2011, 07:50 PM
I know the real story was more nuanced than the book made it sound, and the book was more complicated than the movie could tell, but I thought the movie did a good job of telling an arcane story. And the audience in the theater applauded afterward.

Yeah, but were they stat wankers?

Eric_the_Red
09-23-2011, 09:02 PM
I saw it as well, and thoroughly enjoyed it. The audience seemed receptive, and definitely not hardcore stats geeks.

Loved the trade scene. Classic Sorkin there.

Although the Jeremy Giambi timeline was wrong, wasn't it?

cinreds21
09-23-2011, 09:53 PM
I saw it as well, and thoroughly enjoyed it. The audience seemed receptive, and definitely not hardcore stats geeks.

Loved the trade scene. Classic Sorkin there.

Although the Jeremy Giambi timeline was wrong, wasn't it?

Both Giambi and Bradford were in Oakland in 2001. In the movie it made them seem like they were new.

Also, Peña was a player to be named later in a deal that happened in early July.

vic715
09-23-2011, 10:47 PM
Both Giambi and Bradford were in Oakland in 2001. In the movie it made them seem like they were new.

Also, Peña was a player to be named later in a deal that happened in early July.

My son pointed that out to me when we got home about Bradford.Didn't it seem like Howe was pushing to get fired for refusing to play Hatte at 1st.

westofyou
09-23-2011, 11:49 PM
Thanks for making me have to look that up and then losing an IQ point or two while reading it....
I could have linked it, but why drive traffic to an idiot festival?

Now, quick go read something from the John Thorn family tree of baseball writing and cleanse your mind.

George Anderson
09-24-2011, 12:13 AM
I'm not a fan of sports movie myself, but boy Jason Whilock came off as a major league arse in his article on it. What a pudz

Whitlock is from Indianapolis and is a complete dufus. He forever defended his HS teammate Jeff George and wrote article after article defending him or trying to get him back in the NFL. He also is a good rabble rouser at using racial issues to stir the pot. In short he is an idiot.

MikeThierry
09-24-2011, 05:31 PM
Is this a movie that a person who isn't interested in baseball would be interested in?

signalhome
09-24-2011, 05:40 PM
Is this a movie that a person who isn't interested in baseball would be interested in?

My wife has watched very few baseball games in her life and generally couldn't care less about the sport. She absolutely loved the film.

Quatitos
09-24-2011, 06:00 PM
Is this a movie that a person who isn't interested in baseball would be interested in?

I went with a friend that does not enjoy baseball and he seemed to have enjoyed the film. I actually wasn't going to see it in theaters until he mentioned wanting to go see it, so it appears to have a draw to non baseball fans as well.

Patrick Bateman
09-24-2011, 09:29 PM
I went with a friend that does not enjoy baseball and he seemed to have enjoyed the film. I actually wasn't going to see it in theaters until he mentioned wanting to go see it, so it appears to have a draw to non baseball fans as well.

My gf wants to see it since Brad Pitt is in it.

I told her that the movie was about the same reason that I'm on the computer all the time posting on Redszone and such, and that didnt seem to phase her.

In total, Mike, if you are going with a female, you should be fine.

KronoRed
09-24-2011, 11:37 PM
MrsK wants to see it because Aaron Sorkin did the screen play we both love his writing style.

JaxRed
09-24-2011, 11:51 PM
I think MrsK has MrK snowed......:)

Chip R
09-25-2011, 01:07 AM
Is this a movie that a person who isn't interested in baseball would be interested in?

I saw it tonight with my girlfriend and she doesn't like baseball and she enjoyed the movie. I thought it was very good.

Jpup
09-25-2011, 11:40 AM
It was a great movie. I couldn't have loved it anymore than I did. I can't stand Brad Pitt, but thought he did a great job. Jonah Hill was wonderful as well. Why did they change DePo's name?

The wife enjoyed it too, but she wasn't crazy about it like I was. That's to be expected.

JaxRed
09-25-2011, 11:54 AM
It was a great movie. I couldn't have loved it anymore than I did. I can't stand Brad Pitt, but thought he did a great job. Jonah Hill was wonderful as well. Why did they change DePo's name?

The wife enjoyed it too, but she wasn't crazy about it like I was. That's to be expected.

I heard yesterday that his character was a composite of several people.

westofyou
09-25-2011, 12:02 PM
I heard yesterday that his character was a composite of several people.
He also wouldn't sign off on having his name used.

Don't blame him myself

George Anderson
09-25-2011, 12:08 PM
He also wouldn't sign off on having his name used.

Don't blame him myself

Why is signing your name off a bad thing?

westofyou
09-25-2011, 12:36 PM
Why is signing your name off a bad thing?

It could be, put it this way, you sign off on allowing your name to be used in something you have absolutely no control over, and you're just a pawn in the story line, not three dimensional, but two dimensional. Plus you have yet to achieve what YOU want professionally from your life and your one chance prior occurred in LA a place that allowed you to see first hand the film business and the power it has in building and tearing down a name.

George Anderson
09-25-2011, 12:40 PM
It could be, put it this way, you sign off on allowing your name to be used in something you have absolutely no control over, and you're just a pawn in the story line, not three dimensional, but two dimensional. Plus you have yet to achieve what YOU want professionally from your life and your one chance prior occurred in LA a place that allowed you to see first hand the film business and the power it has in building and tearing down a name.

Him approving the script before signing off wouldn't be an option?

westofyou
09-25-2011, 12:59 PM
Him approving the script before signing off wouldn't be an option?

Perhaps, but chances are that was not going to be offered to most of the principals. Getting the sign off ahead of time is the way the film business likes to work. Lowers liability, rewrites, essentially cost.

RFS62
09-25-2011, 08:11 PM
Maybe he'd have signed off if Jonah Hill played Beane and Pitt played him.

Johnny Footstool
09-26-2011, 01:30 AM
Whitlock is from Indianapolis and is a complete dufus. He forever defended his HS teammate Jeff George and wrote article after article defending him or trying to get him back in the NFL. He also is a good rabble rouser at using racial issues to stir the pot. In short he is an idiot.

He's no idiot. He's very good at his job, which is to get people to read his articles. He'll take whatever stance will generate the most page views.

No integrity, but a lot of savvy.

cincinnati chili
09-26-2011, 01:36 AM
I heard yesterday that his character was a composite of several people.
Paul DePodesta and Bill James would be the two most obvious ones.

Here's an article worth reading: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903927204576573271216641158.html

membengal
09-26-2011, 07:43 AM
Saw it last night with my wife and we both loved it. Just very entertaining.

camisadelgolf
09-26-2011, 08:28 AM
Yup. Very, very good movie. Some of the dialogue is genius, and there were some brilliant performances.

TRF
09-26-2011, 12:55 PM
I plan to see it. Just read that Whitlock article. then I stabbed myself in the eye with a fork.

Raisor
09-26-2011, 09:37 PM
I took off work early to catch it today and liked it alot. Glad they got the "Human Picking Machine" line in.

vaticanplum
09-26-2011, 11:53 PM
I can't wait for the sequel: "Hatteberg: The Cincinnati Years"

Is the Hatteberg/Mattingly bit in the movie? Because that is one of the greatest stories ever told in any baseball book ever.

Chip R
09-27-2011, 12:11 AM
Is the Hatteberg/Mattingly bit in the movie? Because that is one of the greatest stories ever told in any baseball book ever.

Nope. They also left out how Hatteberg's wife helped him during the offseason.

vaticanplum
09-27-2011, 12:12 AM
Nope. They also left out how Hatteberg's wife helped him during the offseason.

I will not see this movie.

Chip R
09-27-2011, 12:13 AM
I will not see this movie.

Go see it anyway.

Guacarock
09-27-2011, 12:37 AM
At the risk of sounding like Mr. Cranky, I found "Moneyball" better than a poke in the eye with a Louisville Slugger, but a film that I would have preferred seeing as a documentary rather than one receiving the glam Hollywood treatment.

All that brooding by Brad Pitt seemed more SoCal than NoCal, and I was expecting more from Philip Seymour Hoffman as Art Howe. He just vanished midway through the storyline. Likewise, the narrative arc peaked with Scott Hatteberg's historic homer to clinch the A's 20th consecutive victory.

So my reaction is mixed. Not a perfect picture, but it's undoubtedly the season's one must-see offering for baseball fans. Of course, can't hold a candle to Babe Ruth in "Fancy Curves." If you haven't seen it, check it out here on YouTube. The best 8-minute baseball instructional movie ever made:

http://youtu.be/Yp8vA07JPGY

Blitz Dorsey
09-27-2011, 02:18 AM
Two things:

* Marty is mentioned in the film? In what capacity? Need more information there.

* What is the Hatteberg/Mattingly story?

(OK, three things ... I'm definitely going to see the movie. Read the book years ago and will see the movie. But not until it comes out on PPV. I don't do movie theaters anymore. Too comfortable at home.)

gilpdawg
09-27-2011, 06:23 AM
* What is the Hatteberg/Mattingly story?


Hatteberg idolized Mattingly growing up. When he made his debut, he ripped what would have been a double down the line but he stopped at first so he could be next to and talk with Mattingly.

Eric_the_Red
09-27-2011, 07:43 AM
* Marty is mentioned in the film? In what capacity? Need more information there.

There is a scene with the A's playing the Reds and Marty's call is used as a voiceover.

vaticanplum
09-27-2011, 06:29 PM
Hatteberg idolized Mattingly growing up. When he made his debut, he ripped what would have been a double down the line but he stopped at first so he could be next to and talk with Mattingly.

Ok...yes. It's way more poetic in the book though. hatteberg was, of course, playing with the Red sox, and this was Mattingly's last year, a late September game when everybody knew the Yankees were out, and hew knew this would be his last chance ever to speak to him as a player.

And he got a hit in his first ever major league at bat, and he didn't just stop at first...he was actually on his way to second and turned around to go back to first, and then Mattingly kept giving him hell for it, and Hatteberg had Mattingly's record about hitting that he used to listen to when he was a kid, and...oh just read it. It actually made me cry out loud.

Blitz Dorsey
09-27-2011, 08:08 PM
Thanks, now I remember reading that in the book. It has been a while since I read the book.

Tom Servo
09-30-2011, 07:12 PM
Just saw it today. The crowd gasped/groaned when they saw the salary Beane turned down in Boston.

Boss-Hog
09-30-2011, 10:51 PM
Just saw it today. The crowd gasped/groaned when they saw the salary Beane turned down in Boston.

The exact same thing happened where I saw it tonight.

757690
09-30-2011, 11:02 PM
Maybe he'd have signed off if Jonah Hill played Beane and Pitt played him.

I believe that kinda is what happened. Word is that DePosdesta didn't like that he was being portrayed by Jonah Hill. He took his name off when that decision was made. Didn't seem to bother Art Howe that he was played by Phillip Seymor Hoffman. Lol

RedsBaron
10-01-2011, 11:10 PM
I saw Moneyball today and enjoyed. I am surprised that a decent movie could be made from the book, which I also enjoyed but never thought was cinema material.
Has Joe Morgan reviewed the movie yet? ;)

*BaseClogger*
10-03-2011, 03:38 PM
I believe that kinda is what happened. Word is that DePosdesta didn't like that he was being portrayed by Jonah Hill. He took his name off when that decision was made. Didn't seem to bother Art Howe that he was played by Phillip Seymor Hoffman. Lol

He probably already took himself out wihen Demetri Martin was cast as DePodesta... no?

cincinnati chili
10-04-2011, 12:45 AM
He probably already took himself out wihen Demetri Martin was cast as DePodesta... no?

My understanding is that the timing of his request to have his name removed coincided (or at least occurred after) the casting of Jonah Hill. However, DePo has never said that the casting was the reason for his request.

Here's a good summary

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-depodestamoneyball080510

Roy Tucker
10-04-2011, 09:24 AM
I finally got around to reading the new Moneyball SI article from a couple weeks ago. It is very good. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1190632/1/index.htm

One comment by Epstein I thought was interesting. Spotting damaged but fixable players is probably the next undervalued resource to go after.



"The biggest surprise for me as a G.M.," Epstein says, "is you spend more time as a psychologist than you think. A latent injury or a latent psychological injury is behind almost every underperforming player. If you can find it and address it, it's a huge advantage.

SunDeck
10-04-2011, 09:33 AM
I finally got around to reading the new Moneyball SI article from a couple weeks ago. It is very good. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1190632/1/index.htm

One comment by Epstein I thought was interesting. Spotting damaged but fixable players is probably the next undervalued resource to go after.

And then there's Edison Volquez. I had such high hopes for that kid, believing the Reds had cracked the nut that is his psychological makeup. Of course, what he'll do next year, as if intended to drive Reds fans insane, will be to have an ERA around 2.5.

RFS62
10-04-2011, 11:06 AM
I finally got around to reading the new Moneyball SI article from a couple weeks ago. It is very good. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1190632/1/index.htm

One comment by Epstein I thought was interesting. Spotting damaged but fixable players is probably the next undervalued resource to go after.


Great read. Here are a couple of other quotes I loved.


"Like Beane, Epstein made his mark in baseball by understanding what numbers could reveal about the value of ballplayers. But the more Epstein learns, the more he values the human side of the game, in part because it is much more difficult to understand. His trust in his scouts often trumps his trust in numbers. Epstein, for instance, won't acquire a player, professional or amateur, with good numbers unless his scouts like him."

"The biggest surprise for me as a G.M.," Epstein says, "is you spend more time as a psychologist than you think. A latent injury or a latent psychological injury is behind almost every underperforming player. If you can find it and address it, it's a huge advantage."

"That's the Number 1 competitive advantage—the human resource, the instructors and coaches. They get it. They bond with the kids. They care about them. They put themselves last. It's the exact same thing with teachers when it comes to education."

Chip R
10-07-2011, 02:41 PM
A different take on Moneyball and the Athletics

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15259

GADawg
10-15-2011, 08:18 PM
my wife and I were out with another couple and the ladies got together and picked "Moneyball"....Brad Pitt definitely sells some tickets.

The movie was entertaining and I realize the story revolved around the Hatteberg/Bradford types but despite the payroll Beane did have a few guys named Hudson, Mulder, Tejada, Chavez, etc..(and Razor Ramon).

My favorite scenes were the phone calls between GM's and it would be interesting to know how close those were to being realistic...anyone have any insight on that kind of thing?

cincinnati chili
10-15-2011, 11:09 PM
my wife and I were out with another couple and the ladies got together and picked "Moneyball"....Brad Pitt definitely sells some tickets.

The movie was entertaining and I realize the story revolved around the Hatteberg/Bradford types but despite the payroll Beane did have a few guys named Hudson, Mulder, Tejada, Chavez, etc..(and Razor Ramon).

My favorite scenes were the phone calls between GM's and it would be interesting to know how close those were to being realistic...anyone have any insight on that kind of thing?

Haven't seen the movie yet (baby at home prevents us from going to movies anymore), but have seen the clip of Pitt calling the owner for permission to trade for Ricardo Rincon and guaranteeing the purchase with his own salary. That's in the book, and (author) Michael Lewis maintains it was true and that he was in the room when it happened.

OnBaseMachine
10-16-2011, 03:25 AM
LOVED this movie. Loved it. Brad Pitt and Jonah Hill were amazing. This is one of my top five favorites films ever. It was that good, IMO.

Strikes Out Looking
10-30-2011, 07:11 PM
Finally saw it. It was enjoybable and my wife, who only very casually watches baseball found it to be good -- now she is peppering my with SABRmetric type questions! (Good thing she isn't married to Little Joe)

George Anderson
11-13-2011, 09:10 PM
I wondered throughout the movie why Billy Beane didn't just fire Art Howe if there was so much conflict between them. Howe was only on a one year contract so I couldn't see A's ownership caring that much if he was let go.

westofyou
11-13-2011, 09:30 PM
Meh, a fictional account of a real year in baseball, one that failed to mention Eric Chavez, Tejada or anyone on the mound not named Chad Bradford. Which is a real shame since those starting pitchers and the aforementioned left side of the IF had a pretty large role in that club.

Not to mention the blatant emasculation of the scouts who have given their blood to the game, furthermore the paunch on Howe was unbelievable to anyone who had watched the man play.

While I liked the film I also see it as a piece of revisionism that reeked of Aaron Sorkin's "everyman" worldview, when anyone who has paid attention to baseball knows that the game uses both stars and role players, only in this the real star was a guy who we're supposed to believe doesn't and never would chase the dollar.

No... only the bad guys did that as Giambi and Damon were portrayed to be.

Once again Hollywood blurs reality, all that was missing was a car chase with the obscenely fat actor who played Jeremy Brown chasing a burrito through East Oakland.

camisadelgolf
11-13-2011, 09:55 PM
Meh, a fictional account of a real year in baseball, one that failed to mention Eric Chavez, Tejada or anyone on the mound not named Chad Bradford. Which is a real shame since those starting pitchers and the aforementioned left side of the IF had a pretty large role in that club.

Not to mention the blatant emasculation of the scouts who have given their blood to the game, furthermore the paunch on Howe was unbelievable to anyone who had watched the man play.

While I liked the film I also see it as a piece of revisionism that reeked of Aaron Sorkin's "everyman" worldview, when anyone who has paid attention to baseball knows that the game uses both stars and role players, only in this the real star was a guy who we're supposed to believe doesn't and never would chase the dollar.

No... only the bad guys did that as Giambi and Damon were portrayed to be.

Once again Hollywood blurs reality, all that was missing was a car chase with the obscenely fat actor who played Jeremy Brown chasing a burrito through East Oakland.
Spot on. Still a very good movie, though. It covered over a calendar year of events, so bringing fiction into it was a nice touch imo. Regardless, it would still probably make for a great documentary if someone were to have the gall to try it.

757690
11-13-2011, 10:06 PM
If you want to talk about historical inaccuracies in the movie, this SNL skit covered a big one...

SNL's MoneyBall Spoof - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCJrRoUaOhw&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

RFS62
11-15-2011, 08:38 AM
Meh, a fictional account of a real year in baseball, one that failed to mention Eric Chavez, Tejada or anyone on the mound not named Chad Bradford. Which is a real shame since those starting pitchers and the aforementioned left side of the IF had a pretty large role in that club.

Not to mention the blatant emasculation of the scouts who have given their blood to the game, furthermore the paunch on Howe was unbelievable to anyone who had watched the man play.

While I liked the film I also see it as a piece of revisionism that reeked of Aaron Sorkin's "everyman" worldview, when anyone who has paid attention to baseball knows that the game uses both stars and role players, only in this the real star was a guy who we're supposed to believe doesn't and never would chase the dollar.

No... only the bad guys did that as Giambi and Damon were portrayed to be.

Once again Hollywood blurs reality, all that was missing was a car chase with the obscenely fat actor who played Jeremy Brown chasing a burrito through East Oakland.



Yep, spot on. I actually had expected it to be worse, not that it was anything but, as you said, revisionist history with a Sorkin spin.