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IWasBornInCincy
09-26-2011, 02:04 PM
1B- Votto
2B - BP
SS - Cozart
3B - Alonso
LF- Willingahm
CF- Heisey
RF - Bruce
C - Hanigan

1SP- Cueto
2SP - Arroyo
3SP - Homer
4SP - Jackson
5SP - Chapman

Closer - Masset or Volquez

FA's to target. Well, I would like to get a Right Handed Bat- Josh Willingham comes to mind.

On the pitching side, I would like to see the REds go after Edwin Jackson. If they could trade Stubbs, I would strongly encourage that for 3B/SS/Bullpen help.

I dont see Volquez ever being a starter again for the Reds...maybe I am wrong. Going on potential alone...a 5 man rotation of

1- Cueto
2 - Edwin Jackson
3- Homer
4 - Wood/Leake
5 - Volquez would be amazing.

but, no one will want Arroyo, Rolens worthless a.ss is still around, and they would need to find a place to play Wilingham. Volquez is just terrible, so I dont know what do with him, a chance to close maybe but he blows in the 1st inning.

I would strongly encourage rolen to retire, or just cut him. He has no place on the team. Perhaps as a utility backup at 3rd

nux fan
09-26-2011, 02:29 PM
francisco needs to play every day he has great powr

volquez is garbage cant do anything but dazzle you with potential

stubbs must go

brm7675
09-26-2011, 03:23 PM
1B- Votto
2B - BP
SS - Cozart
3B - Rolen
LF- Heisey/Yonder platoon
CF- Stubbs
RF - Bruce
C - Hanigan/Devin split

1SP- Cueto
2SP - Leak
3SP - Bronson
4SP - Homer
5SP - Wood

Closer - Co-Co

FA's to target. Well, I would like to get a Right Handed Bat- Josh Willingham comes to mind.

No FA's will be brought in unless they are very very low priced.
On the pitching side, I would like to see the REds go after Edwin Jackson. If they could trade Stubbs, I would strongly encourage that for 3B/SS/Bullpen help.

What does Edwin bring that we don't already have?

I dont see Volquez ever being a starter again for the Reds...maybe I am wrong. Going on potential alone...a 5 man rotation of

1- Cueto
2 - Edwin Jackson
3- Homer
4 - Wood/Leake
5 - Volquez would be amazing.

but, no one will want Arroyo, Rolens worthless a.ss is still around, and they would need to find a place to play Wilingham. Volquez is just terrible, so I dont know what do with him, a chance to close maybe but he blows in the 1st inning.

I would strongly encourage rolen to retire, or just cut him. He has no place on the team. Perhaps as a utility backup at 3rd

brm7675
09-26-2011, 03:24 PM
francisco needs to play every day he has great powr

volquez is garbage cant do anything but dazzle you with potential

stubbs must go

Francisco is Willy Mo Pena

Stubbs needs some serious work with a qualified hitting coach, still to early to dump yet

Volquez needs time with someone who can work him through his mental aspect of the game.

nux fan
09-26-2011, 03:34 PM
disagree look at the stats for francisco instead of opining
stubbs overrated overhyped , ridiculous number of strikeouts
yes send volquez to a psychiatrist but dont pitch him

Stray
09-26-2011, 04:02 PM
Francisco is Willy Mo Pena

Stubbs needs some serious work with a qualified hitting coach, still to early to dump yet

Volquez needs time with someone who can work him through his mental aspect of the game.

Not saying Francisco is gonna be great or anything. I don't think it's fair to call him Wily Mo Pena though, he's shown a lot of promise.

IWasBornInCincy
09-26-2011, 04:04 PM
What does Edwin bring that we don't already have?


Answer: Um...Edwin Jackson would be tied for the lead in Wins for the Reds, and he would be 2nd in Starters ERA behind only Cueto.

He would also be 1st on the team in IP and K's...But I guess you already knew that. I love the Rolen backers still believing he is a starter in the Majors. Yikes.

nux fan
09-26-2011, 04:10 PM
francisco has way more potential than pena, francisco is a good fielder , francisco hits doubles and does not strike out as much as stubbs

brm7675
09-26-2011, 04:29 PM
What does Edwin bring that we don't already have?


Answer: Um...Edwin Jackson would be tied for the lead in Wins for the Reds, and he would be 2nd in Starters ERA behind only Cueto.

He would also be 1st on the team in IP and K's...But I guess you already knew that. I love the Rolen backers still believing he is a starter in the Majors. Yikes.

Umm ranking pitchers on wins is not a very good way to rank them. As for ERA, true, but are you going by his numbers in St. Louis or career? Bronson pitches a ton of innings and since our pitchers not not strike out guys that ain't saying much. If Jackson is all that how come he has pitched for so many teams? I mean really he has a very interesting past, I find it hard to believe that other teams would just give him away if he had all this great talent.

brm7675
09-26-2011, 04:30 PM
francisco has way more potential than pena, francisco is a good fielder , francisco hits doubles and does not strike out as much as stubbs

I would say he is getting better at fielding, but is not to "good" just yet. He also his swing is still to much out of control swing for the fence type. He may mature and get better, but he is not ready for prime time just yet.

nux fan
09-26-2011, 04:53 PM
disagree as usual his upside is so m uch higher than rolen who is on the end of his career, since we dont agree on anything , lets agree to disagree the reds need to try peoplke like francisoc and not keep playing the strikeout machine your hero stubbs

Vottomatic
09-26-2011, 04:53 PM
Jackson too much money. I'd rather make a trade for Shields or some up and comer with better numbers that is under contract (like Shields).

Rolen was injured. If healthy, he is the best option. If not, then you are correct sir. But then again, Volquez looked like the real deal back when he garnered Cy Young votes. But once he got injured, he wasn't quite up to snuff. So being injured has alot to do with value.

brm7675
09-26-2011, 05:07 PM
disagree as usual his upside is so m uch higher than rolen who is on the end of his career, since we dont agree on anything , lets agree to disagree the reds need to try peoplke like francisoc and not keep playing the strikeout machine your hero stubbs

so Juan can improve his game but Stubbs can't?

texasdave
09-26-2011, 05:17 PM
Does it bother anyone that Rolen missed the whole month of September? He has surgery and claims he feels better and has more range of motion in his shoulder than he has had for years. He is close to coming back. Gets sore from too much batting practice one day. And then the soreness lingers and lingers. I am not getting good vibes from all that. It does not auger well for next season.

brm7675
09-26-2011, 05:24 PM
Does it bother anyone that Rolen missed the whole month of September? He has surgery and claims he feels better and has more range of motion in his shoulder than he has had for years. He is close to coming back. Gets sore from too much batting practice one day. And then the soreness lingers and lingers. I am not getting good vibes from all that. It does not auger well for next season.

Not surprised at all, at his age the body takes longer to heal, to think he can have that kind of surgery and be back at 100% this season was a pipe dream. A full offseason and then we can tell if his body is able to go or not. Look at Peyton Manning with the Colts, you just don't rebound health wise when you are there age...

Vottomatic
09-26-2011, 05:25 PM
Well, I had my shoulder fixed in October of 2009.

Fixed a separation and repaired some labrum issues. I'd say it's still only about 70% nearly 2 years later.

My guess is that Scott was rushing himself.

brm7675
09-26-2011, 05:29 PM
Well, I had my shoulder fixed in October of 2009.

Fixed a separation and repaired some labrum issues. I'd say it's still only about 70% nearly 2 years later.

My guess is that Scott was rushing himself.

very few athlete's don't....;-(

nux fan
09-26-2011, 05:31 PM
yes you think stubbs is great and rolen is great I get it
stubbs has had two full years striking out, lets give francisco a chance to strike out over 200 TIMES

texasdave
09-26-2011, 05:46 PM
Why do I have visions of the Reds being in serious contention next season and Cordero blowing saves in September? Because I am a fan of Cincinnati teams. That is why. And that just seems to be the way. Call it the Shayne Graham Syndrome.

Stray
09-26-2011, 05:51 PM
Does it bother anyone that Rolen missed the whole month of September? He has surgery and claims he feels better and has more range of motion in his shoulder than he has had for years. He is close to coming back. Gets sore from too much batting practice one day. And then the soreness lingers and lingers. I am not getting good vibes from all that. It does not auger well for next season.

Not really. If we were in the race I think he'd be back. It's probably just a situation where there's no real reason for him to come back while we have Francisco and Frazier playing in a dead season.

Stray
09-26-2011, 05:52 PM
Why do I have visions of the Reds being in serious contention next season and Cordero blowing saves in September? Because I am a fan of Cincinnati teams. That is why. And that just seems to be the way. Call it the Shayne Graham Syndrome.

It's hard to feel comfortable when Coco goes out there. To me he's a lot like Bruce. You hate to see them with the game on the line but when you step back and look at their season it's actually pretty good.

IWasBornInCincy
09-26-2011, 06:05 PM
Listen Dudes. We all want the REds to be the best team as possible and win some meaningful games (Playoff games)

The last 16 years, the reds have relied on playing retread vets and scrubs who are well past their prime/really bad and hoped they could squeeze from magic out of these scrubs....basically turn straw into gold.


Examples? Joe Randa, Scott Rolen, Scott Hatteberg, Hairston, Agon, Nix, Lehr, Wells, Fogg, Taveras, the list goes on and on and on.


They need to go young. Alonso, Cozart, Franciso have more upside than ROlen/Cairo/Arroyo.

IWasBornInCincy
09-26-2011, 06:06 PM
Why do I have visions of the Reds being in serious contention next season and Cordero blowing saves in September? Because I am a fan of Cincinnati teams. That is why. And that just seems to be the way. Call it the Shayne Graham Syndrome.


Cordero has 3 more games left in a Reds uni. He wont be back in 2012

Stray
09-26-2011, 06:10 PM
Cordero has 3 more games left in a Reds uni. He wont be back in 2012

I wouldn't be so sure. We aren't going to pick up his option, but we could try to work out a 2 year deal with him or something. Honestly I don't know how I feel about that, but I know when you look around the arms we have in our bullpen there isn't anyone I want closing out our games other than Coco.

brm7675
09-26-2011, 06:15 PM
Listen Dudes. We all want the REds to be the best team as possible and win some meaningful games (Playoff games)

The last 16 years, the reds have relied on playing retread vets and scrubs who are well past their prime/really bad and hoped they could squeeze from magic out of these scrubs....basically turn straw into gold.


Examples? Joe Randa, Scott Rolen, Scott Hatteberg, Hairston, Agon, Nix, Lehr, Wells, Fogg, Taveras, the list goes on and on and on.


They need to go young. Alonso, Cozart, Franciso have more upside than ROlen/Cairo/Arroyo.


Alonso is not a 3rd basemen, so to say he would play a better third then a HOF 3rd basemen even at his age is laughable. Cozart will get his shot and Francisco is destine to be a DH somewhere. You have yet to show me why Bronson can't return to his numbers he posted in 2010, 2009 or 2008 when 100% healthy. Why do you believe 1 and only 1 season of poor pitching due to poor health means the end of a career?

brm7675
09-26-2011, 06:15 PM
Cordero has 3 more games left in a Reds uni. He wont be back in 2012

Wanna bet?

Stray
09-26-2011, 06:16 PM
Listen Dudes. We all want the REds to be the best team as possible and win some meaningful games (Playoff games)

The last 16 years, the reds have relied on playing retread vets and scrubs who are well past their prime/really bad and hoped they could squeeze from magic out of these scrubs....basically turn straw into gold.


Examples? Joe Randa, Scott Rolen, Scott Hatteberg, Hairston, Agon, Nix, Lehr, Wells, Fogg, Taveras, the list goes on and on and on.


They need to go young. Alonso, Cozart, Franciso have more upside than ROlen/Cairo/Arroyo.

It all depends on what you believe value is.

Arroyo has a long track record of being a slightly above average pitcher. He's also one of the most durable inning eaters in all of baseball. This year he was sick and hurt so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, not that it matters because his contract tells us he's definitely going to be here next year. With the injury prone pitchers we have, it's nice to have a guy like Arroyo who you can pencil in for at least 200 innings every single season. We don't need him to be an ace or anything.

The last time Rolen was really healthy he was having a great season. Pre ASB 2010. I don't think anyone believes he can get back to that, but if he's healthy again I think he will be very valuable in a platoon at 3rd with Francisco. You know he will give you GG defense, and if his shoulder is alright he's gonna do okay at the plate. Split time will also keep him fresh towards the end of the season.

Cairo was never brought here and signed to be an everyday player. As a utility guy I don't think you can do much better. All the guy does is play well wherever you need him. Every good team needs a Miguel Cairo.

Vottomatic
09-27-2011, 10:30 AM
It all depends on what you believe value is.

Arroyo has a long track record of being a slightly above average pitcher. He's also one of the most durable inning eaters in all of baseball. This year he was sick and hurt so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, not that it matters because his contract tells us he's definitely going to be here next year. With the injury prone pitchers we have, it's nice to have a guy like Arroyo who you can pencil in for at least 200 innings every single season. We don't need him to be an ace or anything.

The last time Rolen was really healthy he was having a great season. Pre ASB 2010. I don't think anyone believes he can get back to that, but if he's healthy again I think he will be very valuable in a platoon at 3rd with Francisco. You know he will give you GG defense, and if his shoulder is alright he's gonna do okay at the plate. Split time will also keep him fresh towards the end of the season.

Cairo was never brought here and signed to be an everyday player. As a utility guy I don't think you can do much better. All the guy does is play well wherever you need him. Every good team needs a Miguel Cairo.

Agree.

And I don't know how many times we have to reiterate this response. It all depends on the health of Rolen and Arroyo, as to what their value to the team is.

I think the positives are that we can tell Alonso and Francisco can hit mlb pitching. Gives the team more options. And Francisco has shown very good improved defense. And then there's Mr. 18 homers off the bench in Chris Heisey. Not sure I've ever seen a part time guy/pinch hitter hit 18 HR's in a season. Makes my mouth water wondering how many he'd hit with 500 at-bats.

I like the offense going into next season if Dusty uses it correctly. If he does the bonehead play Gomes (type player) too much, then they will flop again. Lots of potential with this group including the ability for Bruce to continue to get better.

This team needs starting pitching. Might be time to unload the minors to get it. And then increase payroll.

Ideas? I know Houston would love to unload Wandy's contract. They put him through waivers at the end of the season. We all know James Shields was available. How much better would this team be with Wandy and Shields? But the team would need to add $20M in payroll to do that. $100M payroll? I don't see it.

Cueto
Shields
W. Rodriguez
Leake
Arroyo

Leaves Bailey, Volquez, and Wood out.

Mr Larkin
09-27-2011, 11:38 AM
What about Frazier as a 3B? I think he has potential as well. I think the Reds look to deal Alonzo in the off season. I don't know if they will go for pitching or a 3B, but I think they have to at least consider sending him elsewhere. I hate it, but Votto is too good annd 1B is where Alonzo can play in the ML.
Sappelt, will he be in the majors next season?
Who has more trade value Heisey or Stubbs? One needs to go and I think Heisey would have more suitors.
Need to work on Volq. He has the stuff and we need to get his mind back.
I think Scotty Ro is done. Hate to say that, but that seems to be the case.

smixsell
09-27-2011, 06:31 PM
Your OP is so mindless that I recommend you do us all a favor and retire from the message board.

Or maybe send you "nephew" (sure) back in.

brm7675
09-27-2011, 06:40 PM
Agree.

And I don't know how many times we have to reiterate this response. It all depends on the health of Rolen and Arroyo, as to what their value to the team is.

I think the positives are that we can tell Alonso and Francisco can hit mlb pitching. Gives the team more options. And Francisco has shown very good improved defense. And then there's Mr. 18 homers off the bench in Chris Heisey. Not sure I've ever seen a part time guy/pinch hitter hit 18 HR's in a season. Makes my mouth water wondering how many he'd hit with 500 at-bats.

I like the offense going into next season if Dusty uses it correctly. If he does the bonehead play Gomes (type player) too much, then they will flop again. Lots of potential with this group including the ability for Bruce to continue to get better.

This team needs starting pitching. Might be time to unload the minors to get it. And then increase payroll.

Ideas? I know Houston would love to unload Wandy's contract. They put him through waivers at the end of the season. We all know James Shields was available. How much better would this team be with Wandy and Shields? But the team would need to add $20M in payroll to do that. $100M payroll? I don't see it.

Cueto
Shields
W. Rodriguez
Leake
Arroyo

Leaves Bailey, Volquez, and Wood out.

If Shields was available why wasn't he traded? A pitcher of his quality would have gone...I really think the Rays had no plan and have no plans on dealing him. They know they have a good dependable arm for a reasonable price.

texasdave
09-27-2011, 07:20 PM
If Shields was available why wasn't he traded? A pitcher of his quality would have gone...I really think the Rays had no plan and have no plans on dealing him. They know they have a good dependable arm for a reasonable price.

But Matt Kemp is available.

brm7675
09-27-2011, 07:44 PM
But Matt Kemp is available.

No more or less available as James Shield. I doubt for the right offer any player isn't available, just question if what they want is worth it. I would be more open to overpay for Kemp then I would Shields.

texasdave
09-27-2011, 08:37 PM
I really think the Rays had no plan and have no plans on dealing him.

Vottomatic
09-27-2011, 08:59 PM
If Shields was available why wasn't he traded? A pitcher of his quality would have gone...I really think the Rays had no plan and have no plans on dealing him. They know they have a good dependable arm for a reasonable price.

Again, they have alot of quality young pitching, and some holes to fill in the field. They are always looking to get younger to keep payroll down.

We can revisit this thread next Spring and see what they did. :thumbup:

HUHUH
09-27-2011, 10:05 PM
Can't anyone connect Volquez's downfall in the last couple of years to the steroids issue? C'mon! The dude had a great year then was suspended for "female hormones". Wonder why he's lost his edge? Wake up people.

The DARK
09-27-2011, 11:00 PM
Can't anyone connect Volquez's downfall in the last couple of years to the steroids issue? C'mon! The dude had a great year then was suspended for "female hormones". Wonder why he's lost his edge? Wake up people.

It's not the edge that he's lost; his stuff is arguably better than before Tommy John and the suspension. He just lost his touch for getting batters out. He's thrown too many walks followed by pitches right down Broadway.

Vottomatic
09-28-2011, 10:34 AM
Can't anyone connect Volquez's downfall in the last couple of years to the steroids issue? C'mon! The dude had a great year then was suspended for "female hormones". Wonder why he's lost his edge? Wake up people.

I disagree. He can still hit 97 mph when he wants to.

I think it's mental, and sometimes it's control.

brm7675
09-28-2011, 12:06 PM
Can't anyone connect Volquez's downfall in the last couple of years to the steroids issue? C'mon! The dude had a great year then was suspended for "female hormones". Wonder why he's lost his edge? Wake up people.

How do steriods effect location? His speed is there, the boy just can't throw enough strikes.