PDA

View Full Version : Adam Dunn Lowest BA in Baseball History



texasdave
09-29-2011, 09:14 AM
Adam Dunn of the White Sox hit just .159, but didn't play Wednesday and finished with 496 plate appearances, six shy of qualifying. The post-1900 record low among qualifiers was set by Rob Deer at .179 in 1991.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/baseball/mlb/09/29/statistical-leaders.ap/index.html#ixzz1ZLGkQBM2

Congratulations to the Big Donkey for having the lowest (post-1900) batting average in baseball history. I know the article stated he came up six PA shy of qualifying but I think they are wrong and here is why.

An official MLB rules states the following:

From 1967 to the present, if the player with the highest average in a league fails to meet the minimum plate-appearance requirement, the remaining at-bats until qualification (e.g., 5 ABs, if the player finished the season with 497 plate appearances) are hypothetically considered hitless at-bats; if his recalculated batting average still tops the league, he is awarded the title. (This policy was invoked in 1981, securing Bill Madlock his third NL batting crown, and in 1996, when NL titlist Tony Gwynn finished the year with only 498 PAs.)

In other words, if a player lacks the required amount of PA then these are 'hypothetically' given to him as hitless. Right or wrong, agree or disagree those are the rules. If it works at the high end of the batting average spectrum why not the low end?
Extrapolating then, if we are determining the lowest batting average of all-time, we simply inverse that rule and assume the player would have gotten hits in each of the additional PAs needed to reach the qualifying standard.
Adam Dunn was six plate appearances shy. He is given a 'hypothetical' hit in each. He goes from 66 for 415, to 72 for 421. This calculates out to a .173 batting average. And, Bingo!, there you go. Move over, Rob Deer, there is a new sheriff in town. Congratulations are in order for Adam Dunn for having the lowest batting average in the history of baseball (post-1900). :beerme:
Obviously this is written with tongue firmly in cheek. Just having a little fun is all. But I did run it by the Big Donkey himself and he seemed mighty pleased.

Ohayou
09-29-2011, 11:34 AM
I can't tell. Is it US Cellular Field? The AL pitching? The batters around him? Or did he just hit a gigantic wall?

Moosie52
09-29-2011, 11:51 AM
In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter? Even if he hit safely in all 6 non-AB's, his average would still be abysmal.

redsfanmia
09-29-2011, 04:26 PM
Dunn would look great in Left for the home team next year>

BRM13
09-29-2011, 05:27 PM
Dunn would look great in Left for the home team next year>

Which home team? :D

BigJohn
10-04-2011, 01:58 PM
Hall of Famer, my elbow! I told many folks this many times and was told he will make the Hall, someday. NO way in Hell!

Vottomatic
10-04-2011, 02:44 PM
This is really funny.

Dunn never worked to improve himself as a player and he has hit a wall. It will be interesting to see if he does anything in the offseason to get it back (if he can).

DocRed
10-04-2011, 07:20 PM
Contract notwithstanding....I would still take him over Stubbs...

nux fan
10-04-2011, 11:26 PM
easily, stubbs should have to hit his way out of triple AAA

brm7675
10-05-2011, 02:17 PM
easily, stubbs should have to hit his way out of triple AAA

He already did...:thumbup:

nux fan
10-05-2011, 03:07 PM
not good enough send him back there until he produces as well as francisco,

brm7675
10-05-2011, 03:36 PM
not good enough send him back there until he produces as well as francisco,

Not good enough according to whom? Joe "lazy boy chair" fan or Dusty and Walt? Cause what Joe fan thinks don't mean squat.

Stray
10-05-2011, 03:40 PM
Why are so many threads derailing into Stubbs bashing haha?

Stubbs is lightyears better than Adam Dunn at this point. It's not even arguable. If Dunn isn't hitting he brings absolutely nothing to your team. Unless you want bad defense and slow overweight baserunners.

brm7675
10-05-2011, 03:52 PM
Why are so many threads derailing into Stubbs bashing haha?

Stubbs is lightyears better than Adam Dunn at this point. It's not even arguable. If Dunn isn't hitting he brings absolutely nothing to your team. Unless you want bad defense and slow overweight baserunners.

I believe it has to do with the inability to judge talent and a rush to judgement off very little data.

texasdave
10-05-2011, 05:00 PM
Not good enough according to whom? Joe "lazy boy chair" fan or Dusty and Walt? Cause what Joe fan thinks don't mean squat.

From the looks of the season just turned in by Reds Mismanagement, what they think doesn't really amount to much either.

texasdave
10-05-2011, 05:01 PM
I believe it has to do with the inability to judge talent and a rush to judgement off very little data.

Very little data? Three years in at a big-time college he couldn't make contact. Four years in the minor he couldn't make contact. Two years in the majors he can't make contact. Stubbs cannot make consistent contact. I think that is pretty much a given by now. That is if a person opens their eyes and wants to stop make every excuse in the book for a player.

brm7675
10-05-2011, 05:02 PM
From the looks of the season just turned in by Reds Mismanagement, what they think doesn't really amount to much either.

With Dusty I would agree to apoint, but with Walt without having access to all the information he has, we don't know.

texasdave
10-05-2011, 05:03 PM
With Dusty I would agree to apoint, but with Walt without having access to all the information he has, we don't know.

Everyone else seems to be able to get deals done. Poor Walt. He must be the unluckiest GM in the history of baseball. Always the bridesmaid and never the bride.

texasdave
10-05-2011, 05:04 PM
Let's see now. The Reds were 13-2 when Chris Heisey started in Center. But Stubbs is really, really fast. Unfortunately, really, really fast is probably gonna win out.

brm7675
10-05-2011, 05:04 PM
Very little data? Three years in at a big-time college he couldn't make contact. Four years in the minor he couldn't make contact. Two years in the majors he can't make contact. Stubbs cannot make consistent contact. I think that is pretty much a given by now. That is if a person opens their eyes and wants to stop make every excuse in the book for a player.

Not asking him to be a great hitter just a good hitter which I think with the right approach and hitter he can be. No he will never be a .300+ hitter with a great OBP, but he doesn't have to be. I want him also because of what he can do in the field and what he can do when he gets on base. Is he the perfect answer, probably not but right now, Stubbs in CF is the best option the Reds have.

brm7675
10-05-2011, 05:05 PM
Let's see now. The Reds were 13-2 when Chris Heisey started in Center. But Stubbs is really, really fast. Unfortunately, really, really fast is probably gonna win out.

Wow a 15 game sample size...welll lets bet the farm on that sample size...:laugh:

texasdave
10-05-2011, 05:06 PM
Wow a 15 game sample size...welll lets bet the farm on that sample size...:laugh:

Yes. 15 games. And the simple fact that Heisey was the better player. But let's not a little thing like that bother us.

brm7675
10-05-2011, 05:06 PM
Everyone else seems to be able to get deals done. Poor Walt. He must be the unluckiest GM in the history of baseball. Always the bridesmaid and never the bride.

Not true, eveyone else didn't get deals done, there were a TON of players who most/many thought would be moved at the tradeing deadline and were not. Again without all the details we don't know why Walt didn't make any moves.

texasdave
10-05-2011, 05:07 PM
Not true, eveyone else didn't get deals done, there were a TON of players who most/many thought would be moved at the tradeing deadline and were not. Again without all the details we don't know why Walt didn't make any moves.

Well then I guess there is no need to have a message board. Because how often is Joe Fan going to have all the details? Right around never? What a weak excuse.

brm7675
10-05-2011, 05:08 PM
Yes. 15 games. And the simple fact that Heisey was the better player. But let's not a little thing like that bother us.

He was better because Dusty played him in games where Dusty felt it favored him. We have no idea how Heisey's overall numbers would be if he played say 145-155 games. I sure would see and put him in LF with Stubbs in CF and Bruce in right, but until Dusty does that, a small sample size is not something you can go off of. I mean if we look at the small sample size numbers Devin put up while called up I would question his ability to hit on the major league level and maybe would think he needs another full season in AAA to refine those hitting abilities...

nux fan
10-05-2011, 05:12 PM
oh dusty is so brilliant he can "predict" games thant favor heisey,
if he were that smart the reds would win all their games, heisey out played stubbs because he is BETTER, you ll never get it, stubbs and cecil espy should compete for the 8th outfield position

brm7675
10-05-2011, 05:13 PM
Well then I guess there is no need to have a message board. Because how often is Joe Fan going to have all the details? Right around never? What a weak excuse.

so you want to make claims and statements based of not having all the facts? It's okay to talk, but to state that Walt did or didn't do something and was stupid for that action isn't far without all the knowledge. To a degree we have to allow the same for Dusty because again we don't have full knowledge and info that he has.

brm7675
10-05-2011, 05:14 PM
oh dusty is so brilliant he can "predict" games thant favor heisey,
if he were that smart the reds would win all their games, heisey out played stubbs because he is BETTER, you ll never get it, stubbs and cecil espy should compete for the 8th outfield position

It just kills you that Dusty has more knowledge of the game and his players then you do.....:laugh::laugh:

nux fan
10-05-2011, 05:15 PM
brilliant ripose, why dont you and stubbs and arroyo and cairo and renteria go get promoted to old reg guard

brm7675
10-05-2011, 05:18 PM
brilliant ripose, why dont you and stubbs and arroyo and cairo and renteria go get promoted to old reg guard

It's the truth, it just kills you that the manager of your team actually have access to more info on players and abilities and in turn how to use those players then you do. Because if it didn't you woulnd't be so upset? I have issue with Dusty and Walt both, but I also understand that no matter what I know, they know more and both have a better ability to handle a major league team/franchise then I ever will.

Vottomatic
10-05-2011, 05:27 PM
It's the truth, it just kills you that the manager of your team actually have access to more info on players and abilities and in turn how to use those players then you do. Because if it didn't you woulnd't be so upset? I have issue with Dusty and Walt both, but I also understand that no matter what I know, they know more and both have a better ability to handle a major league team/franchise then I ever will.

I disagree. GM's and manager's get fired everyday because THEY DON'T know how to utilize their players correctly.

texasdave
10-05-2011, 05:31 PM
so you want to make claims and statements based of not having all the facts? It's okay to talk, but to state that Walt did or didn't do something and was stupid for that action isn't far without all the knowledge. To a degree we have to allow the same for Dusty because again we don't have full knowledge and info that he has.

We have all the facts we need. What did Walt do? Nothing. Look at his trading record. He did nothing. That is not speculation. Those are facts. You can talk about not having the money until you are blue in the face. And it is irrelevant. Because I cannot imagine he even began to talk about trading for Lee, or Pence or Shields without running it by Castellini first. So we can safely assume he got the okay to pursue the trade. He never said management didn't allow him the opportunity. He couldn't get the job done. That is a sad simple fact whether you choose to recognize it or not.

brm7675
10-05-2011, 05:32 PM
I disagree. GM's and manager's get fired everyday because THEY DON'T know how to utilize their players correctly.

They do, but they still have more information on those players and such then we do adn only do the owners know if they used that information correctly. With the Reds we have no idea what limitations Walt has to work under. We have no clue what directive Dusty was given on whom to play and such. Now if the Reds were to open up and show us and we found out that Walt could have say gotten Hunter Penace but "HE" decided the Reds didn't need him or the request for players was to high, then we could comment, but without that information we can't make fully knowledebable comments.

brm7675
10-05-2011, 05:35 PM
We have all the facts we need. What did Walt do? Nothing. Look at his trading record. He did nothing. That is not speculation. Those are facts. You can talk about not having the money until you are blue in the face. And it is irrelevant. Because I cannot imagine he even began to talk about trading for Lee, or Pence or Shields without running it by Castellini first. So we can safely assume he got the okay to pursue the trade. He never said management didn't allow him the opportunity. He couldn't get the job done. That is a sad simple fact whether you choose to recognize it or not.

Again not true. We have no idea what offer if any Walt has made for any of those players. I never heard Seattle come out and say..Hey the Reds offered us this and we wanted this and they said no. Same goes for Pence or Shields. And weather you like it or not, MONEY is the key to this issue. We have X amount of dollars to spend, now you can say Walt paid to much to Bruce or Cueto or Rolen or such and that has handstrung our ability to get other players, but we have no idea what our position was in obtaining the players you listed.

texasdave
10-05-2011, 05:42 PM
Nevermind.

nux fan
10-05-2011, 05:49 PM
dont bother responding to the guy, he is like some child troll, whenever he does not like what you say, he says that baker and walt know more than you,

brm7675
10-05-2011, 06:04 PM
dont bother responding to the guy, he is like some child troll, whenever he does not like what you say, he says that baker and walt know more than you,

well any educated adult would know that. Do you really believe anyone on this forum have more knowledge of running a major league team over Dusty and Walt? I mean you really can not believe that...

Vottomatic
10-05-2011, 06:07 PM
Nevermind.

He wore you down, eh?

Hey. I feel the same way.

I come on here for some playful banter, and some insightful ideas, just for the fun of it, and the next thing you know you're in an argument or being constantly shot down.

I'm in a nevermind mood too. :laugh:

texasdave
10-05-2011, 06:14 PM
He is a one-trick pony. The fans can't possibly know as much as Walt and Dusty. That is it. Of course he seems to be able to know more. He will say things like Stubbs just needs a good hitting coach. Stubbs had the same hitting coach in 2010. Is he saying Stubbs got lucky in 2010? LOL. I just used that line because he did.

And he states that Heisey posted better numbers than Stubbs because of the way Dusty used him.


He was better because Dusty played him in games where Dusty felt it favored him.

Then a couple of posts later he says we can't possibly know who Dusty was directed to play.


We have no clue what directive Dusty was given on whom to play and such.

It's a circular no-win. I can't do this all winter long. I might end up a Cardinals fan.

Vottomatic
10-05-2011, 06:21 PM
He is a one-trick pony. The fans can't possibly know as much as Walt and Dusty. That is it. Of course he seems to be able to know more. He will say things like Stubbs just needs a good hitting coach. Stubbs had the same hitting coach in 2010. Is he saying Stubbs got lucky in 2010? LOL. I just used that line because he did.

And he states that Heisey posted better numbers than Stubbs because of the way Dusty used him.



Then a couple of posts later he says we can't possibly know who Dusty was directed to play.



It's a circular no-win. I can't do this all winter long. I might end up a Cardinals fan.

Yeah, I didn't really want to have to do it, because I have nothing personal against brm.........but I might have to put him on ignore simply because it's the same response over and over.

It's the offseason, man. Let's have some fun proposing some ideas. None of them are going to happen for a variety or reasons, but namely payroll. But it's fun to dream.

redsfanmia
10-05-2011, 07:31 PM
well any educated adult would know that. Do you really believe anyone on this forum have more knowledge of running a major league team over Dusty and Walt? I mean you really can not believe that...

There are a handful of people on this board that could work for the Reds and do a fine job, DougDirt comes to mind.

texasdave
10-05-2011, 07:47 PM
well any educated adult would know that. Do you really believe anyone on this forum have more knowledge of running a major league team over Dusty and Walt? I mean you really can not believe that...

Walt signed Willy Taveras and Dusty Baker played him. Batted him leadoff. They aren't infallible. If all that experience leads to signing like this, then experience is overrated.

nux fan
10-05-2011, 07:51 PM
whatr other moron would bat the league leading strike out person LEADOFF all year, if Dusty had a track star on the team with no baseball experience he would bat the guy leadoff

brm7675
10-05-2011, 08:07 PM
Walt signed Willy Taveras and Dusty Baker played him. Batted him leadoff. They aren't infallible. If all that experience leads to signing like this, then experience is overrated.

Never said they were perfect or were even doing a good job in some aspects. I am just saying that without all the information that they have we can't make a fair review of them. I mean doesn't Bob deserve some of the blame also?

nux fan
10-05-2011, 09:05 PM
if you dont want to make a review of their performacne get the heck off the site instead of pointing out how we have imperfect metrics to evaluate them, why have an opinion at all,

texasdave
10-05-2011, 09:30 PM
x