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Wheelhouse
09-29-2011, 10:47 AM
They played the game like professionals this year, after they got rid of some toxic ex-Reds from last year. LaRussa deserves Manager of the Year.

The Reds, of course, decided to end the season a little early. Unentertaining, unprofessional play. Dusty blames injuries. The Cards had it much worse than the Reds: lost Wainwright, Friese out for 3 months, Pujols hideous start along with contract hoo-hah. No closer. The Reds, with the best talent in the division, folded-up easy again... I blame Castellini--his dogged holding on to Dusty is KILLING this team. I hope the season ticket buyers flee, and bite him in the butt for it.

The only game plan the Reds seem to ever put into play is "flail and hurl." There are some players who take a professional approach: Votto, Rolen, Phillips, and a few others, but the rest of the team is a wreck. A well managed team will beat the Reds consistently, no matter what the talent.

Chip R
09-29-2011, 11:06 AM
I'm just surprised LaRussa and Carpenter aren't complaining about how the Phillies took so long to beat the Braves.

PuffyPig
09-29-2011, 11:11 AM
They played the game like professionals this year, after they got rid of some toxic ex-Reds from last year.

I'm surprised that the Cards managed to win with ex-Reds Lohse and Rhodes on the team this year?

reds1869
09-29-2011, 11:15 AM
Congratulations to the Cardinals. It was an epic run. Now I hope they are done in three games.

westofyou
09-29-2011, 11:18 AM
Gibson deserves manager of the year, LaRussa deserves a bib and rattle

osuceltic
09-29-2011, 11:33 AM
Great example of why you continue to play and try to win to the bitter end. We had more than a few posters eager to throw in the towel and play the Louisville lineup as early as July -- and they more or less got what they wanted. I wish the Reds had grinded things out the same way the Cardinals had.

CySeymour
09-29-2011, 11:35 AM
Yep, they Cards kept at it and took advantage of Atlanta's fall. Not happy about the Cards being there, but they earned it.

PuffyPig
09-29-2011, 11:43 AM
Great example of why you continue to play and try to win to the bitter end. We had more than a few posters eager to throw in the towel and play the Louisville lineup as early as July -- and they more or less got what they wanted. I wish the Reds had grinded things out the same way the Cardinals had.


Cards really had no minor leaguers to play.

Their best prospects are in A and AA ball, so it's not like they wanted to see what some likely 2012 starters might do.

Their current team is their 2012 team, minus a PooHole or two.

Captain Hook
09-29-2011, 12:42 PM
Great example of why you continue to play and try to win to the bitter end. We had more than a few posters eager to throw in the towel and play the Louisville lineup as early as July -- and they more or less got what they wanted. I wish the Reds had grinded things out the same way the Cardinals had.

There was a point after I had given up on the Reds that they were only a few games behind the Cards.I obviously thought they were done as well and actually had little doubt that the Reds would overtake them for second place in the division.

Wheelhouse
09-29-2011, 01:00 PM
I'm surprised that the Cards managed to win with ex-Reds Lohse and Rhodes on the team this year?

Lohse was a surprise. Rhodes doesn't count--I'm talking about players from the Griffey/Dunn Golden Years.

Reds/Flyers Fan
09-29-2011, 01:07 PM
Go Phillies!

Roy Tucker
09-29-2011, 01:17 PM
I agree whoelheartedly. The Reds encountered some difficulty, flailed around for a few weeks, and gave up. Coasted into the end of the season like a car out of gas and trying to stretch it out to roll into the garage so they don't have to get out to push.

From BCast to Jocketty to Dusty to the team on the field. I just got the feeling that they played out the string from late August on.

And the Cards proved that you *can* come back. It's harder than heck, odds are you won't make it, but don't ever ever ever give up.

As much as I despise LaRussa, he hardly ever lets his give up in a game. He is absolutely killer ruthless in this regard.

I remember a game from earlier this year where the Reds had a big lead on the Cardinals in the late innings and LaRussa made all of his moves to get back in it. I can't recall the specifics, but he was within one batter/pitcher of throwing in the towel and I remember feeling shocked and thinking "holy crap, Abner LaRussa is actually going to give up". But something worked and then the Reds blew the lead and the game.

wally post
09-29-2011, 01:25 PM
I agree with Wheelhouse on Baker's ineptitude as displayed by this season's performance and hope management is waking up. No improvement from Stubbs and the handling of the bullpen is particularly upsetting to me.

Raisor
09-29-2011, 01:38 PM
The cardinals can kiss my grits

cumberlandreds
09-29-2011, 01:39 PM
Give Larussa his due. He kept his team on track and focused during some difficult times for them. They overcame a lot of injuries and still made the playoffs. I wish Dusty had kept his team focused on wins and not individual accomplishments.

westofyou
09-29-2011, 01:45 PM
Dusty pitched much better last year did he not?

Roy Tucker
09-29-2011, 01:46 PM
And while I'm at it, congrats to the Brewers as well.

I think the Reds can look at the 2 NL Central teams in the playoffs and learn some lessons. 2 different lessons, but they are very key ones.

Razor Shines
09-29-2011, 01:52 PM
Lohse was a surprise. Rhodes doesn't count--I'm talking about players from the Griffey/Dunn Golden Years.

Hold on.....other teams can pin their failures on Griffey and Dunn too? How many degrees of separation can there be still blame Griff/Dunn? I bet we could eventually figure out a way for the Braves and Red Sox to realize there problems were out of their control.

PuffyPig
09-29-2011, 01:53 PM
II remember a game from earlier this year where the Reds had a big lead on the Cardinals in the late innings and LaRussa made all of his moves to get back in it. I can't recall the specifics, but he was within one batter/pitcher of throwing in the towel and I remember feeling shocked and thinking "holy crap, Abner LaRussa is actually going to give up". But something worked and then the Reds blew the lead and the game.

I think you are referring to the game the Reds lead by a bunch going into the last inning and Chapman was brought in to pitch and walked like 5 batters.

The Specifics:

Reds won 9-7. Larussa's moves consisted of PH for Jay (because Chapman was in) and PH for the pitcher. His best non-move was letting an obvious tiring Carpenter in to hit in the top of the 7th trailing 4-2, and then watching as Carpenter game up 4 runs in the bottom of the 7th to break the game wide open.

cumberlandreds
09-29-2011, 02:25 PM
I think you are referring to the game the Reds lead by a bunch going into the last inning and Chapman was brought in to pitch and walked like 5 batters.

The Specifics:

Reds won 9-7. Larussa's moves consisted of PH for Jay (because Chapman was in) and PH for the pitcher. His best non-move was letting an obvious tiring Carpenter in to hit in the top of the 7th trailing 4-2, and then watching as Carpenter game up 4 runs in the bottom of the 7th to break the game wide open.

IIRC, LaRussa didn't manage that game. He was back home with a case of shingles and missed that series.

RedFanAlways1966
09-29-2011, 03:13 PM
Screw the Cardinals. Go Phils. Go D-Backs. Then go D-Backs.

HeatherC1212
09-29-2011, 03:18 PM
Screw the Cardinals. Go Phils. Go D-Backs. Then go D-Backs.

:thumbup: :beerme:

Redlegs
09-29-2011, 03:18 PM
I cannot stand the St. Louis Cardinals. They had a great run and deserve their spot, but I'll be damned if I'm going to congratulate them or their fans on anything. I would love nothing more than to see the Phillies dismantle them as bad or worse than they did our beloved Reds team last season.

Screw those whiney, beyotches!

CarolinaRedleg
09-29-2011, 03:31 PM
ABWLBs.

traderumor
09-29-2011, 04:57 PM
I will congratulate the Cardinals on the same day I congratulate the Michigan Wolverines and the 70s Dodgers. Makes me sick to my stomach even considering it. :)

Superdude
09-29-2011, 04:59 PM
I cannot stand the St. Louis Cardinals. They had a great run and deserve their spot, but I'll be damned if I'm going to congratulate them or their fans on anything. I would love nothing more than to see the Phillies dismantle them as bad or worse than they did our beloved Reds team last season.

Screw those whiney, beyotches!

:thumbup: Seconded. This thread is just gross

crazybob60
09-29-2011, 05:29 PM
I will congratulate the Cardinals on the same day I congratulate the Michigan Wolverines and the 70s Dodgers. Makes me sick to my stomach even considering it. :)

I will third this. Except that I would never consider congratulating them. When I got to work this morning I sent an email to my buddy who is an avid Cards fan (bleh!) and said that it made me sick to my stomach knowing that the Cards backdoored their way into the playoffs this year.

Ghosts of 1990
09-29-2011, 05:39 PM
I tip my cap to them. I am jealous. I wish we were the organization that they are. TLR managed like his hair was on fire the past few months.

Have fun playing the Phillies. I don't think they fare differently than the 2010 Reds

crazybob60
09-29-2011, 05:49 PM
I tip my cap to them. I am jealous. I wish we were the organization that they are. TLR managed like his hair was on fire the past few months.

Have fun playing the Phillies. I don't think they fare differently than the 2010 Reds

You mean that thing under TLR's cap is hair?

Redlegs
09-29-2011, 05:56 PM
You mean that thing under TLR's cap is hair?

Well it sure as hell ain't animal fur. This we can be sure of. :beerme:

RFS62
09-29-2011, 07:59 PM
Gibson deserves manager of the year, LaRussa deserves a bib and rattle


Exactly.

lollipopcurve
09-29-2011, 08:29 PM
I really dislike some of the players on the Cardinals, and Larussa has always bugged me. But I have a lot of respect for that team based on what they did this year. There was a lot of talk about how resilient the Reds were in 2010, but that was nothing compared to how strong the Cards bounced back from adversity this year. Tough, tough baseball team.

Of course, I'll be rooting for them to get their butt kicked in the 1st round.

remdog
09-29-2011, 09:40 PM
Gibson deserves manager of the year, LaRussa deserves a bib and rattle

I'll third that. The Reds need someone that can light a fire under the players' butts instead of being concerned about them making their 'numbers'. I mentioned Gibson back in about June or July and I tip my hat to him. He should be the NL Manager of the Year.

Fire Dusty now; don't waste another year on his sillyness.

Rem

Matt700wlw
09-29-2011, 10:03 PM
I'll third that. The Reds need someone that can light a fire under the players' butts instead of being concerned about them making their 'numbers'. I mentioned Gibson back in about June or July and I tip my hat to him. He should be the NL Manager of the Year.

Fire Dusty now; don't waste another year on his sillyness.

Rem

They're not going to pay him $3 million to go away, and pay someone else to manage.

Tommyjohn25
09-29-2011, 11:34 PM
I will never congratulate the current Cardinals organization for anything. Ever. Every member of that franchise from the grounds crew to the owner can shove it.

MikeThierry
09-30-2011, 02:00 AM
Cards really had no minor leaguers to play.

Their best prospects are in A and AA ball, so it's not like they wanted to see what some likely 2012 starters might do.

Their current team is their 2012 team, minus a PooHole or two.

Are you serious? Allen Craig, Daniel Descalso, Tony Cruz, half of their bullpen all came from the minors this season. Salas, who came from the AAA system, closed most of the year for them. In fact, if you look at the makeup of that roster, most of the players they have on that team were developed from their farm system. At least give credit where credit is due.

Here are the players that the Cardinals developed in their farm system:

Molina, Freese, Schumaker, Jay, Pujols, Garcia, Motte, Salas, Boggs, Sanchez, Lynn, Descalso, Allen Craig, McClellan, Wainwright. You are essentially talking about half of the current team minus Wainwright.


Another thing I was thinking about was that the Cards could get rolled over by the Phillies like the Reds did last year. Just like last year for the Reds, the Cardinals had the best offense in the NL this year. However, I was also looking at the Reds strike out rate last year compared to the strikeout rate this year for the Cardinals. Why I think the Cardinals will be tougher against the Phillies pitchers is that they had the second lowest strikeouts in the majors behind the Texas Rangers. The Cardinals also had the 6th most walks in baseball. If you look at the Reds strikeouts last year, they had the seventh most strikeouts in baseball and were 16th in walks. The thing with the Phillies pitchers is that they are strikeout pitchers so I don't think the Cards will bite on some of the stuff that the Phillies pitchers will throw at them unlike last year with the Reds. I don't expect the Cards to win this series but I also don't expect them to get swept either.

MikeThierry
09-30-2011, 02:01 AM
Oh, and as good as TLR has been this year with his management, the Manager of the Year should definitely go to Gibson. Now the GM of the year should go either to the Brewers GM or the Cards GM.

AtomicDumpling
09-30-2011, 02:24 AM
Congrats to the Cards. They deserved to make it in the playoffs. They had the same number of wins as the Reds did last year. I can't believe the Braves collapsed and let the Cards sneak in. Go Phillies!

Brutus
09-30-2011, 02:31 AM
Are you serious? Allen Craig, Daniel Descalso, Tony Cruz, half of their bullpen all came from the minors this season. Salas, who came from the AAA system, closed most of the year for them. In fact, if you look at the makeup of that roster, most of the players they have on that team were developed from their farm system. At least give credit where credit is due.

Here are the players that the Cardinals developed in their farm system:

Molina, Freese, Schumaker, Jay, Pujols, Garcia, Motte, Salas, Boggs, Sanchez, Lynn, Descalso, Allen Craig, McClellan, Wainwright. You are essentially talking about half of the current team minus Wainwright.


Another thing I was thinking about was that the Cards could get rolled over by the Phillies like the Reds did last year. Just like last year for the Reds, the Cardinals had the best offense in the NL this year. However, I was also looking at the Reds strike out rate last year compared to the strikeout rate this year for the Cardinals. Why I think the Cardinals will be tougher against the Phillies pitchers is that they had the second lowest strikeouts in the majors behind the Texas Rangers. The Cardinals also had the 6th most walks in baseball. If you look at the Reds strikeouts last year, they had the seventh most strikeouts in baseball and were 16th in walks. The thing with the Phillies pitchers is that they are strikeout pitchers so I don't think the Cards will bite on some of the stuff that the Phillies pitchers will throw at them unlike last year with the Reds. I don't expect the Cards to win this series but I also don't expect them to get swept either.

Not trying to detract from your overall point, which I'm neither here nor there on... but Adam Wainwright pitched his first nearly 600 professional innings in the minors as an Atlanta Brave farmhand. I'm not sure the Cardinals necessarily deserve the title as having 'developed' him. He did come from the minors, but he never pitched below AAA for the Cards.

Reds/Flyers Fan
09-30-2011, 02:41 AM
I will never congratulate the current Cardinals organization for anything. Ever. Every member of that franchise from the grounds crew to the owner can shove it.

Bravo! :beerme:

The Lards were nothing more than in the right place at the right time to take advantage of an epic, historic collapse by an overrated hack Braves team in a pitifully god-awful National League that nobody really wanted to win. They're just the luckiest nerd on the short bus. If the season had lasted another 10 days, the thoroughly disinterested Reds would have passed the Braves. If the season lasted another two weeks, so would the Pirates, AAAstros, 1962 Mets, 1976 Buccaneers, the Washington Generals, Milli Vanilli, NBC's primetime fall lineup, the French army, Kentucky football and Arby's.

The cards are little more than the fat dweeb kid who happened to be standing at the window when the hot cheerleader neighbor girl forgot to close the curtains before getting in the shower. It happens once. Enjoy your 30 seconds of fun, St. Loo.

If I could wish something on the filthy, disgusting baseball epidemic known as the St. Lewis Bird Flu, it would be that they could be passed out drunk somewhere on G-Deck about 90 minutes after the Titanic hits the iceberg. Or that they'd have to spend considerable time in the no-man's land purgatory otherwise known as Missourah.

Either way, for all that is good, clean and pure in this world, please ... GO PHILLIES!!! (after relieving the bird flu of their duties, the Phillies are free to lose to any of the remaining teams, except for the Yankees.)

:thumbup: :beerme: :cool: :lol: :jump: :clap: :party: :wave:
:KoolAid: :runaway: :bowrofl: :dancingcool: :owned:
:notworthy: :usa: :fineprint: :redcap:

MikeThierry
09-30-2011, 04:11 AM
Bravo! :beerme:

The Lards were nothing more than in the right place at the right time to take advantage of an epic, historic collapse by an overrated hack Braves team in a pitifully god-awful National League that nobody really wanted to win. They're just the luckiest nerd on the short bus. If the season had lasted another 10 days, the thoroughly disinterested Reds would have passed the Braves. If the season lasted another two weeks, so would the Pirates, AAAstros, 1962 Mets, 1976 Buccaneers, the Washington Generals, Milli Vanilli, NBC's primetime fall lineup, the French army, Kentucky football and Arby's.

The cards are little more than the fat dweeb kid who happened to be standing at the window when the hot cheerleader neighbor girl forgot to close the curtains before getting in the shower. It happens once. Enjoy your 30 seconds of fun, St. Loo.

If I could wish something on the filthy, disgusting baseball epidemic known as the St. Lewis Bird Flu, it would be that they could be passed out drunk somewhere on G-Deck about 90 minutes after the Titanic hits the iceberg. Or that they'd have to spend considerable time in the no-man's land purgatory otherwise known as Missourah.

Either way, for all that is good, clean and pure in this world, please ... GO PHILLIES!!! (after relieving the bird flu of their duties, the Phillies are free to lose to any of the remaining teams, except for the Yankees.)

:thumbup: :beerme: :cool: :lol: :jump: :clap: :party: :wave:
:KoolAid: :runaway: :bowrofl: :dancingcool: :owned:
:notworthy: :usa: :fineprint: :redcap:

classy :rolleyes:

MikeThierry
09-30-2011, 04:15 AM
Not trying to detract from your overall point, which I'm neither here nor there on... but Adam Wainwright pitched his first nearly 600 professional innings in the minors as an Atlanta Brave farmhand. I'm not sure the Cardinals necessarily deserve the title as having 'developed' him. He did come from the minors, but he never pitched below AAA for the Cards.

I will give you Wainwright, though he did pitch two years for the Cardinals AAA team. Still doesn't take away from my overall point.

Ron Madden
09-30-2011, 06:43 AM
You have to give credit where credit is due. The Cardinals deserve to be in the Playoffs, they won something like 23 of their last 31 games to win the Wild Card race fair and square. I congratulate them.

I'm as big of a die hard Reds Fan as anyone but I disagree with those who say the Cards backed into the playoffs.

traderumor
09-30-2011, 11:29 AM
Are you serious? Allen Craig, Daniel Descalso, Tony Cruz, half of their bullpen all came from the minors this season. Salas, who came from the AAA system, closed most of the year for them. In fact, if you look at the makeup of that roster, most of the players they have on that team were developed from their farm system. At least give credit where credit is due.

Here are the players that the Cardinals developed in their farm system:

Molina, Freese, Schumaker, Jay, Pujols, Garcia, Motte, Salas, Boggs, Sanchez, Lynn, Descalso, Allen Craig, McClellan, Wainwright. You are essentially talking about half of the current team minus Wainwright.


Another thing I was thinking about was that the Cards could get rolled over by the Phillies like the Reds did last year. Just like last year for the Reds, the Cardinals had the best offense in the NL this year. However, I was also looking at the Reds strike out rate last year compared to the strikeout rate this year for the Cardinals. Why I think the Cardinals will be tougher against the Phillies pitchers is that they had the second lowest strikeouts in the majors behind the Texas Rangers. The Cardinals also had the 6th most walks in baseball. If you look at the Reds strikeouts last year, they had the seventh most strikeouts in baseball and were 16th in walks. The thing with the Phillies pitchers is that they are strikeout pitchers so I don't think the Cards will bite on some of the stuff that the Phillies pitchers will throw at them unlike last year with the Reds. I don't expect the Cards to win this series but I also don't expect them to get swept either.Glad to see you are back up to speed in Homerism 101. Sort of like riding a bike, I guess.

OnBaseMachine
09-30-2011, 12:40 PM
classy :rolleyes:

I thought it was funny.

This is a Reds board after all.

I refuse to give the deadbirds credit. The Braves flat-out choked.

Bumstead
09-30-2011, 12:50 PM
Great example of why you continue to play and try to win to the bitter end. We had more than a few posters eager to throw in the towel and play the Louisville lineup as early as July -- and they more or less got what they wanted. I wish the Reds had grinded things out the same way the Cardinals had.

Yeah, that 79-83 record would have been something to be proud of...wait...what? The team played just as well with the young guys as it did with the awesome veterans...hilarious!

Bum

Reds/Flyers Fan
09-30-2011, 01:14 PM
classy :rolleyes:

Yea, your organization exudes class, huh? What did that Brewers broadcaster say about your team again?

Roy Tucker
09-30-2011, 01:57 PM
Hey, I'm no Cards fan. But I am a baseball fan after being a Reds fan.

Going 18-8 in September is nothing to sneeze at. Sure the Braves lost, but the Cards kept their foot on the gas pedal and kept the pressure on. I wolud hardly attribute this solely to the Braves choking. The Cardinals played good ball.

And the Reds's sleepwalking 12-14 record in Sept. solidified their non-contender status. That's where I direct my passion.

PuffyPig
09-30-2011, 03:21 PM
Are you serious? Allen Craig, Daniel Descalso, Tony Cruz, half of their bullpen all came from the minors this season. Salas, who came from the AAA system, closed most of the year for them. In fact, if you look at the makeup of that roster, most of the players they have on that team were developed from their farm system. At least give credit where credit is due.




You typed an awful lot considering you missed the whole point of my thread.

The cards were playing those guys all season.

The point was that the Cards didn't bring up some minor leaguers to play them down the stretch for the future, they went with, more or less, the team that got them there.

The Card's didn't bring up any minor leaguers to get playing time down the stretch for development puroses becuase they no one to bring up. Because they were already there in some cases.

I didn't say they had no minor leaguers on the team.

Nor did I say anything about their farm system over the last 10 years.

MikeThierry
09-30-2011, 10:54 PM
You typed an awful lot considering you missed the whole point of my thread.

The cards were playing those guys all season.

The point was that the Cards didn't bring up some minor leaguers to play them down the stretch for the future, they went with, more or less, the team that got them there.

The Card's didn't bring up any minor leaguers to get playing time down the stretch for development puroses becuase they no one to bring up. Because they were already there in some cases.

I didn't say they had no minor leaguers on the team.

Nor did I say anything about their farm system over the last 10 years.

Adron Chambers got two of the most important hits on the season for the Cards late in the year and he was a September callup. If Adron Chambers does not get those key hits, the Cards would not be in the position they are in now. Tyler Greene, Brandon Dickson, Shane Robinson, and Sanchez all got called up in the stretch run and contributed. I guess I don't understand what you are trying to point out here. Why would the Cardinals start minor league players (which they could have like Tyler Greene on a daily basis, which I called for by the way) when they were still scratching and clawing their way into wild card position? The Cards farm system, including AAA, does have talent and some of those players could have been used in the last month. It just didn't make sense in some cases to call players up if they were not going to get any playing time. We are talking about Tony LaRussa here.



Glad to see you are back up to speed in Homerism 101. Sort of like riding a bike, I guess.


Yeah clearly I'm a homer when I say that "I don't expect the Cards to win this series but I also don't expect them to get swept either." I guess for me to be a completely objective non-homer and go the Jerry Springer route, I should go all out and say "yeah, those dang Cardinals, they suck and are going to get swept by the Phillies. They are going to be blown out 25-0 in the first game". Geesh, you can't win for losing in here sometimes.

MikeThierry
09-30-2011, 10:57 PM
Yea, your organization exudes class, huh? What did that Brewers broadcaster say about your team again?

I see, so your perception of the Cardinals lack of class justifies you going all out on this board and be classless. Makes perfect sense.

Blitz Dorsey
10-01-2011, 01:29 AM
The only bad thing about the Braves' collapse is that the Cardinals were the main beneficiaries. However, it was still funny. Yeah, we don't like the Cards, but I also dislike the Braves. So, whatever. The Cards will get swept by the Phillies anyway. But the NL Central is strong, baby. Hopefully this makes the Cardinals think they are better than they really are and they won't try and improve too much in the offseason. Course, after they're done signing Pujols (and believe me, they will) they won't have much money left for anything else.

Matt700wlw
10-01-2011, 01:56 AM
Poor Astros. For the second year in a row, they're the vicitims of a clinch.

MikeThierry
10-01-2011, 03:52 AM
The only bad thing about the Braves' collapse is that the Cardinals were the main beneficiaries. However, it was still funny. Yeah, we don't like the Cards, but I also dislike the Braves. So, whatever. The Cards will get swept by the Phillies anyway. But the NL Central is strong, baby. Hopefully this makes the Cardinals think they are better than they really are and they won't try and improve too much in the offseason. Course, after they're done signing Pujols (and believe me, they will) they won't have much money left for anything else.

Considering that Wainwright will be back next season, that makes them automatically better even if they keep the same team. They have the best offense in the NL this season and if they add a Cy Young front line ace like Waino to the rotation, their win total should be about the same or better next year. I also think next year is the last year on Lohse and Westbrooke's contracts so you are talking about close to 20 million coming off the books in 2013 (god those were horrible contracts :( ) Berkman signed for only one year and I expect either Allen Craig or Matt Adams to take over full time in 2013. That is another 12 million off the books. Essentially you are looking at a total of about 32 million off the books by 2013 if the Cards decide not to resign Lohse, Westbrook, and Berkman at that point. By that time, the guys we have in the minors should be ready by then. Bottom line, much to your chagrin, the Cards won't be going away anytime soon. :)

RFS62
10-01-2011, 10:12 AM
Considering that Wainwright will be back next season, that makes them automatically better even if they keep the same team. They have the best offense in the NL this season and if they add a Cy Young front line ace like Waino to the rotation, their win total should be about the same or better next year. I also think next year is the last year on Lohse and Westbrooke's contracts so you are talking about close to 20 million coming off the books in 2013 (god those were horrible contracts :( ) Berkman signed for only one year and I expect either Allen Craig or Matt Adams to take over full time in 2013. That is another 12 million off the books. Essentially you are looking at a total of about 32 million off the books by 2013 if the Cards decide not to resign Lohse, Westbrook, and Berkman at that point. By that time, the guys we have in the minors should be ready by then. Bottom line, much to your chagrin, the Cards won't be going away anytime soon. :)


Waino and Whino in the same rotation. It boggles the mind.

Reds/Flyers Fan
10-01-2011, 10:54 AM
I see, so your perception of the Cardinals lack of class justifies you going all out on this board and be classless. Makes perfect sense.

You still can't seem to understand that this isn't a cardinals message board. In fact, I'm not sure you can grasp the concept that there are people who don't share your warm and fuzzy feelings for your favorite team.

And if you think Internet message board posts reveal anything about class, you so need to get out more.

Go Phillies! (oops, I guess that's not classy)

Blitz Dorsey
10-01-2011, 12:24 PM
Considering that Wainwright will be back next season, that makes them automatically better even if they keep the same team. They have the best offense in the NL this season and if they add a Cy Young front line ace like Waino to the rotation, their win total should be about the same or better next year. I also think next year is the last year on Lohse and Westbrooke's contracts so you are talking about close to 20 million coming off the books in 2013 (god those were horrible contracts :( ) Berkman signed for only one year and I expect either Allen Craig or Matt Adams to take over full time in 2013. That is another 12 million off the books. Essentially you are looking at a total of about 32 million off the books by 2013 if the Cards decide not to resign Lohse, Westbrook, and Berkman at that point. By that time, the guys we have in the minors should be ready by then. Bottom line, much to your chagrin, the Cards won't be going away anytime soon. :)

I know, I know. Quit rubbing it in! Ha. (BTW: The Reds are going to be very good in 2012. If Walt actually does something to improve the club this offseason, unlike last year when he did nada. We're very close to having a playoff squad again; just need to make 1 or 2 key moves.)

TeamBoone
10-01-2011, 04:26 PM
Congratulations to the Cardinals. It was an epic run. Now I hope they are done in three games.

Amen. I can never cheer for them; just can't.

remdog
10-01-2011, 05:10 PM
You still can't seem to understand that this isn't a cardinals message board. In fact, I'm not sure you can grasp the concept that there are people who don't share your warm and fuzzy feelings for your favorite team.

And if you think Internet message board posts reveal anything about class, you so need to get out more.

Go Phillies! (oops, I guess that's not classy)

:thumbup:

Maybe they won't let him play on the Big Boy Cardinal Board. :laugh:

Rem

PuffyPig
10-01-2011, 05:34 PM
Adron Chambers got two of the most important hits on the season for the Cards late in the year and he was a September callup. If Adron Chambers does not get those key hits, the Cards would not be in the position they are in now. Tyler Greene, Brandon Dickson, Shane Robinson, and Sanchez all got called up in the stretch run and contributed. I guess I don't understand what you are trying to point out here.

No you clearly don't.

Someone mentioned that the Cards continued playing their regulars throughout September on a regular basis while the Reds played a number of propsects (Alonso, Francisco, Sappelt, Frazier) on a semi-regular basis. They werew suggesting that the kept tryiong to win while the Reds were happy to get their prospects playing time for development puposes.

My pouint was that the Cards may well have played certain prospects once they fell well out of the race; their failure top play guys like Peterson, Chambers, Dickson on a full time basis is because is because those guys will never ever be anything other than backups and plugs. They weren't given fulltime opportunity for that reason, not because the Cards wanted to continue going for it.

traderumor
10-01-2011, 10:24 PM
Adron Chambers got two of the most important hits on the season for the Cards late in the year and he was a September callup. If Adron Chambers does not get those key hits, the Cards would not be in the position they are in now. Tyler Greene, Brandon Dickson, Shane Robinson, and Sanchez all got called up in the stretch run and contributed. I guess I don't understand what you are trying to point out here. Why would the Cardinals start minor league players (which they could have like Tyler Greene on a daily basis, which I called for by the way) when they were still scratching and clawing their way into wild card position? The Cards farm system, including AAA, does have talent and some of those players could have been used in the last month. It just didn't make sense in some cases to call players up if they were not going to get any playing time. We are talking about Tony LaRussa here.





Yeah clearly I'm a homer when I say that "I don't expect the Cards to win this series but I also don't expect them to get swept either." I guess for me to be a completely objective non-homer and go the Jerry Springer route, I should go all out and say "yeah, those dang Cardinals, they suck and are going to get swept by the Phillies. They are going to be blown out 25-0 in the first game". Geesh, you can't win for losing in here sometimes.I was referring to your defense of any suggestion that the Cards haven't had a very good farm system for quite some time.

Then there's your reappearance when the Cards get back in the race and start waxing eloquent yet again on what a great organization they are, after chiding folks for not understanding that you had not been around due to "life happening" and having talked about how done you were with them....until they suddenly jumped back in the race. Funny, you were absent after the Reds swept the Cards early in the season also. You had an excuse then also. Maybe its fair-weather fan more than homer. The jury's still out.

Reds/Flyers Fan
10-02-2011, 04:11 AM
Thoroughly enjoyed that game tonight! :beerme:

MattyHo4Life
10-02-2011, 10:29 AM
That is another 12 million off the books. Essentially you are looking at a total of about 32 million off the books by 2013 if the Cards decide not to resign Lohse, Westbrook, and Berkman at that point. By that time, the guys we have in the minors should be ready by then. Bottom line, much to your chagrin, the Cards won't be going away anytime soon. :)

If the Cardinals re-sign Pujols (I believe they will), then I'm guessing he will have a back loaded contract. That backloaded contract would likely take up the majority of the savings from Lohse and Westbrook's contracts.

thatcoolguy_22
10-02-2011, 10:31 AM
I'm late to this but, congrats are in order to the Cards for an amazing comeback, taking the wild card. It shows the quality level of play in the NL Central. However, I hope the Phils sweep.

Griffey012
10-08-2011, 11:03 AM
Well congrats once again to the Cardinals fans on tORG after taking down the Phillies. I will definitely be rooting for Milwaukee, but as much as I dislike the team I can appreciate the kind of resolve they have shown considering they lost their ace before the season even started.

traderumor
10-08-2011, 11:39 AM
Still not congratulating the Cardinals team. I wanted them sent home with a sweep, feathers plucked, beaks knocked off, tailfeathers gone and wings broken. The only thing I got was Cris Carpenter with his shirt off while Ryan Howard writhed in pain on the ground.

And to make the night even worse, watching two of my least favorite MLB players be the heroes for Milwaukee made me ill.

KoryMac5
10-08-2011, 11:46 AM
I have absolutely no desire to congratulate the Cardinals on making the playoffs or tip my cap to them on beating the Phillies. For me they still are and will always be the enemy.

GAC
10-08-2011, 11:49 AM
The cardinals can kiss my grits

http://www.eavesdroponlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/thumbs-up.jpg

I never gave congratulations to the hated Dodgers, and I'll be darned if I'm gonna do it with the Snards. I hope they go down in a flaming abyss to the Brewers so we can hear the excuses fly. :D

Griffey012
10-08-2011, 12:10 PM
I edited my post to clarify. I was intending to congratulate the Cardinals fans that post up here because they are respectful and add value. I would never in my life actually aim to congratulate the Cardinals organization on anything (except getting rid of Carpenter and LaRussa).

RANDY IN INDY
10-08-2011, 12:24 PM
Are we possibly looking at a repeat of the 1968 World Series, Cardinals vs Tigers? Could Justin Verlander be a modern day Mickey Lolich? ( minus quite a few pounds;) )

OnBaseMachine
10-08-2011, 12:24 PM
Ryan Howard and Hunter Pence have to be two of the most overrated players in all of baseball. Congrats to the Phillies on being overrated.

Roy Tucker
10-08-2011, 01:09 PM
Ahhh, they get a tip of the Roy cap.

Beating Roy Halliday in Philly in a deciding playoff game 1-zip in front of 45K+ booing and nasty Phillie fans takes some serious nads. The Reds went there last year and peed in their pants like little girls.

I still don't like them but they get my respect for what they did.

MikeThierry
10-08-2011, 04:20 PM
Are we possibly looking at a repeat of the 1968 World Series, Cardinals vs Tigers? Could Justin Verlander be a modern day Mickey Lolich? ( minus quite a few pounds;) )

Actually, the Tigers are looking for revenge from the 2006 series against the Cardinals. I'm not surprised though a lot of people don't remember it. It was one of the lowest rated World Series of all time. I fear the same will happen this year if the Tigers and Cards meet again. Would have much preferred a Yankees/Cards match up but I'll take it either way.

By the way, when was the last time there has been LDS's played without teams on either coast participating? Has there ever been an all centralized LDS?

RBA
10-08-2011, 06:10 PM
Congrats to modern supplements.

westofyou
10-08-2011, 06:38 PM
By the way, when was the last time there has been LDS's played without teams on either coast participating? Has there ever been an all centralized LDS?
1991 was a no coast series for both leagues, the only year it occurred.

Degenerate39
10-08-2011, 07:04 PM
Let's go Brewers :/

OldXOhio
10-10-2011, 07:23 PM
I'd like to congratulate both teams on the epic brawl that's still to come.

RANDY IN INDY
10-11-2011, 08:37 AM
Actually, the Tigers are looking for revenge from the 2006 series against the Cardinals. I'm not surprised though a lot of people don't remember it. It was one of the lowest rated World Series of all time. I fear the same will happen this year if the Tigers and Cards meet again. Would have much preferred a Yankees/Cards match up but I'll take it either way.

By the way, when was the last time there has been LDS's played without teams on either coast participating? Has there ever been an all centralized LDS?

Oh, I remember it. Just so happens that I like the outcome of the '68 Series a lot more.

cumberlandreds
10-11-2011, 08:42 AM
I still don't like them but they get my respect for what they did.

Same here. I may not like them but they are a tough bunch that know how to win. Something the Reds need find out. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if the Cards beat the Brewers and then win the World Series. They match up very well with everyone that if left in the playoffs.

RichRed
10-11-2011, 02:10 PM
I've chimed in about the Cardinals' whining ways, so it's only fair to give them credit for their winning ways. I wish the Reds had more of that.

MikeThierry
10-11-2011, 07:43 PM
Same here. I may not like them but they are a tough bunch that know how to win. Something the Reds need find out. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if the Cards beat the Brewers and then win the World Series. They match up very well with everyone that if left in the playoffs.

A Rangers/Cardinals World Series would be awesome. I wonder what the over/under in Vegas would be for the amount of runs scored in that potential series.

Degenerate39
10-12-2011, 09:24 PM
cardinals vs reds august 10 brawl, carpenter talks - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7NcO1-Msjg)

Albert Pujols and Chris Carpenter on Nyjer Morgan Incident - 101ESPN - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrVueyPm2sg&feature=related)

BuckeyeRedleg
10-13-2011, 03:02 PM
I don't have a problem with either of those two clips.

And Pujols sounds like a great guy.

RFS62
10-14-2011, 10:14 AM
A Rangers/Cardinals World Series would be awesome. I wonder what the over/under in Vegas would be for the amount of runs scored in that potential series.


Probably about the same number as the number of viewers watching outside of St. Louis and Dallas

westofyou
10-14-2011, 10:20 AM
A Rangers/Cardinals World Series would be awesome. I wonder what the over/under in Vegas would be for the amount of runs scored in that potential series.

Nah, it would suck because the Cardinals were in it.

A Brewers/Rangers series is a much better story, no LaRussa, two teams winning it for the 1st time EVER, no gratuitous on the field Budweiser ads (that beer really is crap) no Musial stories, no What will Albert do stories... no LaRussa (worth noting twice)

Mike, I have to ask...

Do you also spend your days eating McDonalds in a Burger King parking lot telling all the folks that walk by how damn good that Bic Mac and fries are?

RFS62
10-14-2011, 10:25 AM
Nah, it would suck because the Cardinals were in it.

Mike, I have to ask...

Do you also spend your days eating McDonalds in a Burger King parking lot telling all the folks that walk by how damn good that Bic Mac and fries are?



Oh, snap!

:laugh:

WMR
10-14-2011, 10:35 AM
Nah, it would suck because the Cardinals were in it.

A Brewers/Rangers series is a much better story, no LaRussa, two teams winning it for the 1st time EVER, no gratuitous on the field Budweiser ads (that beer really is crap) no Musial stories, no What will Albert do stories... no LaRussa (worth noting twice)

Mike, I have to ask...

Do you also spend your days eating McDonalds in a Burger King parking lot telling all the folks that walk by how damn good that Bic Mac and fries are?

LMAO.

Can I donate $5 to the www.cardinalszone.com website creation fund?

Roy Tucker
10-14-2011, 11:59 AM
Do you also spend your days eating McDonalds in a Burger King parking lot telling all the folks that walk by how damn good that Bic Mac and fries are?



I must say, that elicited an audible guffaw with nasal overtones from Roy.

I appreciate Mike's viewpoint, but that's funny.

Joseph
10-14-2011, 12:49 PM
Brewers fans are all kinds of classy IMO. I'm rooting for them big time.

OnBaseMachine
10-14-2011, 02:29 PM
Nah, it would suck because the Cardinals were in it.

A Brewers/Rangers series is a much better story, no LaRussa, two teams winning it for the 1st time EVER, no gratuitous on the field Budweiser ads (that beer really is crap) no Musial stories, no What will Albert do stories... no LaRussa (worth noting twice)

Mike, I have to ask...

Do you also spend your days eating McDonalds in a Burger King parking lot telling all the folks that walk by how damn good that Bic Mac and fries are?

:laugh::laugh::laugh::thumbup:

That is hilarious.

Rojo
10-14-2011, 02:35 PM
Nah, it would suck because the Cardinals were in it.

I'd love to see a Brewers/Tigers series. Cardinals/Rangers I might not watch.

Strikes Out Looking
10-14-2011, 04:17 PM
Nah, it would suck because the Cardinals were in it.

A Brewers/Rangers series is a much better story, no LaRussa, two teams winning it for the 1st time EVER, no gratuitous on the field Budweiser ads (that beer really is crap) no Musial stories, no What will Albert do stories... no LaRussa (worth noting twice)

Mike, I have to ask...

Do you also spend your days eating McDonalds in a Burger King parking lot telling all the folks that walk by how damn good that Bic Mac and fries are?

Well said sir, well said!

reds44
10-14-2011, 04:37 PM
Nah, it would suck because the Cardinals were in it.

A Brewers/Rangers series is a much better story, no LaRussa, two teams winning it for the 1st time EVER, no gratuitous on the field Budweiser ads (that beer really is crap) no Musial stories, no What will Albert do stories... no LaRussa (worth noting twice)

Mike, I have to ask...

Do you also spend your days eating McDonalds in a Burger King parking lot telling all the folks that walk by how damn good that Bic Mac and fries are?
Gold.

gilpdawg
10-15-2011, 01:18 AM
I'm rooting for the Cards to make the series.......then lose in the seventh game in the most painful way possible. Like a blown 10 run lead or something.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk

MikeThierry
10-15-2011, 01:46 AM
Probably about the same number as the number of viewers watching outside of St. Louis and Dallas

You are probably right about that. Even though the Yankees and Boston are much hated, they do draw ratings. I don't think a Brewers/Rangers or a Brewers/Tigers series would be much of a draw either.


Do you also spend your days eating McDonalds in a Burger King parking lot telling all the folks that walk by how damn good that Bic Mac and fries are?

No, I would probably get sick eating at those places. Any more gratuitous shots? I won't take a joke either because it gets tiring with all the personal attacks in here to the point where I might have to get out of the forums for a while. I know most of you will probably like that, so keep piling on I guess.

Tony Cloninger
10-15-2011, 11:42 AM
I thought my Post Season was happy when Yankees got rolled out....now I have to watch the team that Rasputin would root for go to the WS. Please anyone from the AL that can beat the Cardinals will be great.

traderumor
10-15-2011, 10:28 PM
Congratulations to Sparty for dumping UM. But that body slam of Robinson was cheap.

The Brewers will win the last two at home.

dman
10-16-2011, 11:25 PM
disregard

GAC
10-17-2011, 05:41 AM
The Brewers will win the last two at home.

Stay out of Vegas there buddy. :mooner:

15fan
10-17-2011, 08:15 AM
Go Rangers.

westofyou
10-17-2011, 10:31 AM
Go Rangers

reds1869
10-17-2011, 11:13 AM
Dear Texas Rangers,

Please don't let those whiny clowns from St. Louis win the World Series. They will never, ever shut up about it.The thought of watching Chris Carpenter celebrate makes me nauseous. Only you can prevent that from happening.

Love,

reds1869

P.S. If you can make their loss as heart-wrenching as possible, that would be appreciated.

traderumor
10-17-2011, 12:29 PM
Stay out of Vegas there buddy. :mooner:Guess I'm not a prophet or a son of a prophet :) Funny how the Brewers achilles heel of bad D showed up in Game 5 and how the Grienke/Marcum success story for the regular season did not pan out much in the Cards series.

Will M
10-18-2011, 04:28 AM
if i recall the Cardinals got some flack for dealing Rasmus. he was called 'their Jay Bruce'. so far the deal has been a success. i have been thinking about this a bit. our Jay Bruce is expected to be a middle of the order stud. yet their Jay Bruce was a complimentary player. Pujols-Holliday is their big 3-4 punch. even before Jay emerged Rasmus wasn't counted on by the management to hit 30 bombs and drive in 100 runs. if he did then awesome but the team wasn't built with the idea that he had to. however it seems to me that the Reds have been built with an 'everything has to go right' type mentality. when Rolen, Volquez & Arroyo came up lame the 2011 season was lost. i can't see the Cards going into a season with that type of mentality. good teams need to be built with the idea that not everything is going to go right. even if most does go right the team still may have to make an in season move or two. i'd like to see the 2012 Reds have this mentality. for example Rolen is not counted on the play 130 games & OPS 800+. maybe he is pencilled in for 110 games with an OPS of 725. Arroyo was awful in 2011. for the team to plan for a rebound is not a good plan. he could be slotted in as the 6th starter. then if he does come back we have depth (always good and usually needed) but if he flops then we don't put up with 32 terrible starts. if Sappelt is pencilled in as the leadoff hitter and center fielder then there should be some type of backup plan if he struggles.

as Mike pointed out 'potential' and $3.50 buys you a cup of coffee. the Reds shouldn't count on potential as proven. it seems like a way to get cheap young players and try to sell them to the fans as proven stars. when they fail (most of the time they will) the team can blame some bad luck, injuries, etc. but the real problem is counting on guys to pull a load bigger than they are likely to be capable of. this applies to the young guys as well as old guy coming off bad years. i can see the team spinning the 2012 season as follows: Arroyo and Rolen are healthy. Volquez is a year removed from surgery. Alonso has worked on his defense all winter and should be a middle of the order bat. etc. then when most of these things don't happen we will all be watching some other team win the NL Central in 2012. to me this is a situation worse than the old Reds or Pirates because the current team really does have some talent. just not enough.

Ron Madden
10-18-2011, 04:51 AM
if i recall the Cardinals got some flack for dealing Rasmus. he was called 'their Jay Bruce'. so far the deal has been a success. i have been thinking about this a bit. our Jay Bruce is expected to be a middle of the order stud. yet their Jay Bruce was a complimentary player. Pujols-Holliday is their big 3-4 punch. even before Jay emerged Rasmus wasn't counted on by the management to hit 30 bombs and drive in 100 runs. if he did then awesome but the team wasn't built with the idea that he had to. however it seems to me that the Reds have been built with an 'everything has to go right' type mentality. when Rolen, Volquez & Arroyo came up lame the 2011 season was lost. i can't see the Cards going into a season with that type of mentality. good teams need to be built with the idea that not everything is going to go right. even if most does go right the team still may have to make an in season move or two. i'd like to see the 2012 Reds have this mentality. for example Rolen is not counted on the play 130 games & OPS 800+. maybe he is pencilled in for 110 games with an OPS of 725. Arroyo was awful in 2011. for the team to plan for a rebound is not a good plan. he could be slotted in as the 6th starter. then if he does come back we have depth (always good and usually needed) but if he flops then we don't put up with 32 terrible starts. if Sappelt is pencilled in as the leadoff hitter and center fielder then there should be some type of backup plan if he struggles.

as Mike pointed out 'potential' and $3.50 buys you a cup of coffee. the Reds shouldn't count on potential as proven. it seems like a way to get cheap young players and try to sell them to the fans as proven stars. when they fail (most of the time they will) the team can blame some bad luck, injuries, etc. but the real problem is counting on guys to pull a load bigger than they are likely to be capable of. this applies to the young guys as well as old guy coming off bad years. i can see the team spinning the 2012 season as follows: Arroyo and Rolen are healthy. Volquez is a year removed from surgery. Alonso has worked on his defense all winter and should be a middle of the order bat. etc. then when most of these things don't happen we will all be watching some other team win the NL Central in 2012. to me this is a situation worse than the old Reds or Pirates because the current team really does have some talent. just not enough.

I honestly hope that I'm dead wrong here but I believe it would be foolish for the Reds to count on Scott Rolen to start 110 games and OPS 725.

I thought it was a foolish idea last year at this time too. I guess we can always hope he can pull a Lance Berkman and rise from the ashes.

MikeThierry
10-18-2011, 02:21 PM
I honestly hope that I'm dead wrong here but I believe it would be foolish for the Reds to count on Scott Rolen to start 110 games and OPS 725.

I thought it was a foolish idea last year at this time too. I guess we can always hope he can pull a Lance Berkman and rise from the ashes.

Ron, my only real criticism with the Reds organization is their almost naive, it seems, outlook on Rolen. I've said it on other threads but I think it is a real flawed plan if they hope upon hope at third base in 2012 for Rolen. There has to be a game plan here, not raindrops and butterflies. I think the Reds will be a dominant team in a couple of years but from an outsiders perspective, their handling of third base just leaves me scratching my head. Say what you want about the Cards but when they acquired Berkman, they had a backup plan if that failed. Allen Craig was a viable alternative if Berkman didn't succeed. I just don't see a viable backup plan if Rollen goes down again, which he will.

Boss-Hog
10-18-2011, 10:14 PM
Ron, my only real criticism with the Reds organization is their almost naive, it seems, outlook on Rolen. I've said it on other threads but I think it is a real flawed plan if they hope upon hope at third base in 2012 for Rolen. There has to be a game plan here, not raindrops and butterflies. I think the Reds will be a dominant team in a couple of years but from an outsiders perspective, their handling of third base just leaves me scratching my head. Say what you want about the Cards but when they acquired Berkman, they had a backup plan if that failed. Allen Craig was a viable alternative if Berkman didn't succeed. I just don't see a viable backup plan if Rollen goes down again, which he will.

Respectfully, this is at least the second time I've seen you pose the very same question re: the Reds' third base depth. In the other thread, at least one poster provided an answer to your question, yet you're again posing the same question as if that answer didn't occur. I'm really not sure what else you're looking for someone to provide on this topic.

MikeThierry
10-18-2011, 10:42 PM
Respectfully, this is at least the second time I've seen you pose the very same question re: the Reds' third base depth. In the other thread, at least one poster provided an answer to your question, yet you're again posing the same question as if that answer didn't occur. I'm really not sure what else you're looking for someone to provide on this topic.

I don't think I revisited that thread so I may have missed the input. If it was around the same time I had major health issues, I didn't keep track of many topics on here. It was kind of interesting that when I got back, some of the threads I contributed on were 2-3 pages into the forum. Plus it was brought up in this topic so I think it is valid to talk about it if it is discussed in this thread.

Boss-Hog
10-19-2011, 07:36 AM
I don't think I revisited that thread so I may have missed the input. If it was around the same time I had major health issues, I didn't keep track of many topics on here. It was kind of interesting that when I got back, some of the threads I contributed on were 2-3 pages into the forum. Plus it was brought up in this topic so I think it is valid to talk about it if it is discussed in this thread.
OK, fair enough. Please feel free to read up here (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92264) rather than continuing to ask the same question that's already been answered.

RANDY IN INDY
10-19-2011, 09:12 AM
Valid options should Rolen go down. Francisco and Frazier. Pretty obvious at that.

MikeThierry
10-20-2011, 01:16 AM
OK, fair enough. Please feel free to read up here rather than continuing to ask the same question that's already been answered.

Ahh, it was in September. I must have had too much alcoholic intake and forgot about that thread completely. Please forgive me on my random drunkenness :D

traderumor
10-21-2011, 05:21 PM
One heart wrenching defeat down, three more to go. May the other three losses be even harder to digest.

Reds/Flyers Fan
10-21-2011, 07:14 PM
One heart wrenching defeat down, three more to go. May the other three losses be even harder to digest.

Here here!

:beerme:

MikeThierry
10-23-2011, 03:01 PM
Here here!

:beerme:

The way the Cards looked last night, particularly Pujols, I wouldn't be surprised if this thing goes seven and the Cards win it in St. Louis.

mdccclxix
10-29-2011, 01:55 AM
I need to get this out of the way so I can move on: CONGRATS.

Totally improbable. On the backs of Freese and Craig, really. Quality pieces from in house. Berkman: the classic Cardinal pickup, a la Larry Walker, Reggie Sanders, Will Clark.

Add in good pitching and tons of experience, count me as unsurprised. Even without Albert, this team has a solid core for the next 2 years, no matter what Reds fans want to believe.

Now: Sign Albert for 10 years and 30 mil per. Repeat 2007.

OnBaseMachine
10-29-2011, 02:16 AM
Congrats to the Rangers on their epic choke last night and some horrible managing by Ron Washington. Oh, and can't forget Jerry Layne's great strike zone tonight.

Captain Hook
10-29-2011, 02:42 AM
:barf:

Ron Madden
10-29-2011, 04:27 AM
Congratulations to The St. Louis Cardinals.

Very entertaining World Series even with the sloppy defense of both clubs.

GAC
10-29-2011, 06:04 AM
The way the Cards looked last night, particularly Pujols, I wouldn't be surprised if this thing goes seven and the Cards win it in St. Louis.

Congratulations to you Mike, and all Cardinal fans. That was one heck of a series, and the Cards did what they had to do to win - played damn good ball all around when it counted. You guys had an uphill battle at the end of the season and charged hard, while the Braves collapsed, to capture the WC. They then went out, and it wasn't an easy road either, and played head-to-head against, and beat, the two best teams in the NL in the Phillies and Brewers.

Again - one heck of a series, and that game 6 was simply phenomenal. I personally said it was over after that game 6 comeback. I think that really dis-spirited the Rangers.

Have fun celebrating!

MikeThierry
10-29-2011, 08:26 AM
Congratulations to you Mike, and all Cardinal fans. That was one heck of a series, and the Cards did what they had to do to win - played damn good ball all around when it counted. You guys had an uphill battle at the end of the season and charged hard, while the Braves collapsed, to capture the WC. They then went out, and it wasn't an easy road either, and played head-to-head against, and beat, the two best teams in the NL in the Phillies and Brewers.

Again - one heck of a series, and that game 6 was simply phenomenal. I personally said it was over after that game 6 comeback. I think that really dis-spirited the Rangers.

Have fun celebrating!


To be fair to the Rangers, they had some injuries at the worst time. Hamilton was hurt all series long and both Napoli/Cruz were injured in game seven. Who knows how the series would have ended if they were fully healthy. Granted, Matt Holliday was hurt for practically since the week leading up to the playoffs but that Rangers team is loaded and would not be surprised if they are back next year. They also get 80 million from that TV contract and will be going in heavily for high priced free agents in the off season.

RedsBaron
10-29-2011, 08:35 AM
Congrats to the Cardinals. The better team won.

hebroncougar
10-29-2011, 09:34 AM
No doubt in my mind now, Larussa is the greatest modern day manager in baseball. And possibly the greatest of all time.

RFS62
10-29-2011, 10:35 AM
Congrats to the Cardinals. The better team won.

I enjoyed it, even though the evildoers won.

It's like seeing Eddie Haskel win the World Series. He may deserve it, but he's still a whiny little punk.

traderumor
10-29-2011, 11:27 AM
Nope. As bad as the Steelers winning the Super Bowl or the Wolverines the NC. No congratulations. Some times, the bad guys win, but they're still bad guys.

bellhead
10-29-2011, 11:52 AM
One of the best series ever, congrats to the Cards..

RedsBaron
10-29-2011, 01:03 PM
Nope. As bad as the Steelers winning the Super Bowl or the Wolverines the NC. No congratulations. Some times, the bad guys win, but they're still bad guys.

No, the Cardinals are not the Steelers. I wouldn't accuse any other team of that. :eek: There are bad guys and then there is pure evil.

Vottomatic
10-29-2011, 02:01 PM
Nope. As bad as the Steelers winning the Super Bowl or the Wolverines the NC. No congratulations. Some times, the bad guys win, but they're still bad guys.

It's just difficult for me to respect that team full of jerks.

It's the worst thing in sports when the bad guys win it all.

westofyou
10-29-2011, 02:06 PM
Horray the McRib is back, I had my only McRib in 1982 in St Louis, its reemergence this off season only meant one thing to me, the curse of the Cardinals winning the world series was near.

757690
10-29-2011, 02:21 PM
LaRussa: Molina Best Catcher Ever (http://http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2011/10/29/tony-la-russa-yadier-molina-greatest-catcher-ever/)

Reds/Flyers Fan
10-29-2011, 02:42 PM
Nope. As bad as the Steelers winning the Super Bowl or the Wolverines the NC. No congratulations. Some times, the bad guys win, but they're still bad guys.

:beerme:

It was a good series and a great game 6 - too bad most people missed it since it was among the lowest rated WS in history.

But no congratulations from me.

traderumor
10-29-2011, 03:39 PM
LaRussa: Molina Best Catcher Ever (http://http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2011/10/29/tony-la-russa-yadier-molina-greatest-catcher-ever/)He's the best ever, well right behind Steve Yeager.

cincrazy
10-29-2011, 04:10 PM
I've come to the conclusion that it's not the Cardinals I can't stand, it's individuals on the Cardinals. LaRussa, Molina, and Carpenter, actually. After that, I don't really mind any of them. I'm glad to see Rhodes win a title. Berkman gets a much deserved ring. And hey, as much as I despise them, I tip my cap to them. One of the most glorious runs in the history of baseball. Let's be real, we hate them because we want to be them.

And I can talk myself into being happy they won. They're more likely to seriously overpay Pujols. Their chances of repeating next year are slim, simply because of the fact repeating is so damn difficult to accomplish. LaRussa has another ring, couldn't possibly top this run. While I don't think he's gone at the moment, I think it makes it more likely he's gone sooner rather than later.

defender
10-29-2011, 04:30 PM
I enjoyed when Carpenter was 1-7 in the middle of June. At that point I figured it was two or three more groundballs past Theriot before his head exploded. He went 10-2 the rest of the season, including 16 innings, 1 run, 2 wins v. the Reds in July. Then 4 and 0 in the playoffs, winning the final game of the season.

I am impressed. I can't help but respect him. Especially, if he decides to retire on top.

Captain Hook
10-29-2011, 06:15 PM
Not really sure why it's necessary to congratulate/respect/invy these guys.They have some talent and managed to pull a WS championship out of their butts.It was as close to a miracle as you'll see happen in baseball and despite how they played the last month of the regular season and then in the playoffs I can't say they(at least Molina,TRL and Carp) deserved it.

HeatherC1212
10-29-2011, 08:37 PM
LaRussa: Molina Best Catcher Ever (http://http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2011/10/29/tony-la-russa-yadier-molina-greatest-catcher-ever/)

Words cannot express how much that statement bothers me and should bother anyone who's a fan of baseball in general. :thumbdown: :bang:

George Anderson
10-29-2011, 08:53 PM
Well of course.....Cochrane, Berra, Campanella, Dickey, Gibson, Bench, Rodriguez and Molina.

Yea sure, thats the ticket :lol:

George Anderson
10-29-2011, 08:56 PM
I don't really care for the Cards but you gotta give credit where credit is due.

The Miracle Mets of 69' have been replaced in the history books of overachievers by this Red Bird bunch.

Vottomatic
10-30-2011, 10:16 AM
I don't see why the Cardinals winning it is a miracle. They were the hottest team in baseball coming into the postseason. And they remained hot and won it.

Texas should be searching for a new manager. Ron Washington handed that series to the Cardinals.

George Anderson
10-30-2011, 11:08 AM
I don't see why the Cardinals winning it is a miracle. They were the hottest team in baseball coming into the postseason. And they remained hot and won it.

.

Their story is somewhat similar to the 69' Mets. They were 8 1/2 games out in September, they lost a top notch starter to start the season and twice they were a strike away from losing the WS. Sure they got hot but they needed to have some divine help from above in the form of a miracle and IMO they sure got it.

I still don't like em though.

westofyou
10-30-2011, 12:23 PM
This isn't football managers don't get canned for losing championship series, they get rewarded and praised for getting their team there twice In a row.

jojo
10-30-2011, 12:28 PM
Their story is somewhat similar to the 69' Mets. They were 8 1/2 games out in September, they lost a top notch starter to start the season and twice they were a strike away from losing the WS. Sure they got hot but they needed to have some divine help from above in the form of a miracle and IMO they sure got it.

I still don't like em though.

On the final night of the season, the nation was marveling at the incredible evening we were treated to as history unfolded before our eyes.

Now that the Cardinals took it several orders of magnitude higher by then winning the World Series and being crowned the best team in the world its just all "meh"?

You're right, it's one thing to hate them, it's another thing to rewrite history for the sake of bias. This isn't Egypt and we're not Pharaohs. And like it or not, the Cards are Champions having overcome an adversity that was historic in nature.

cumberlandreds
10-30-2011, 12:51 PM
I'm not too proud to offer my congratulations to the Cards. I may not like them but I can still respect them and admire how they play the game. That was one of the toughest teams I have ever witnessed in all of sports. How many times could they have given up on the season,game or series? I wish I could say the same about the Reds. If they hadn't have been the Cardinals I would have been rooting for them.

lollipopcurve
10-30-2011, 01:20 PM
Now that the Cardinals took it several orders of magnitude higher by then winning the World Series and being crowned the best team in the world its just all "meh"?

For some diehard Reds fans, sure. I grew to root for the Cards this postseason, but it's easy to see why a good portion of Reds fans would refuse to be impressed. That's fandom, espacially in the arena of archrivalries.

Tony Cloninger
10-30-2011, 01:31 PM
Their story is somewhat similar to the 69' Mets. They were 8 1/2 games out in September, they lost a top notch starter to start the season and twice they were a strike away from losing the WS. Sure they got hot but they needed to have some divine help from above in the form of a miracle and IMO they sure got it.

I still don't like em though.


They got some incredible good fortune the way the Braves played and then took it from there.

Great choke by the Texas bullpen and the play of Cruz in RF made Lonnie Smith look like a GG.

How is it Washington's fault.....must have missed some easy stuff....but all I say was a pitching staff that could not close out TWO 2 run leads.....and a RF who played a tough but still catchable ball like it was a grenade.....deserve some grief.

George Anderson
10-30-2011, 03:29 PM
I always make long shot bets like this in when in Vegas for this very reason.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/lucky-gambler-rakes-375-000-winning-st-louis-cardinals-bets-worth-500-article-1.969071

traderumor
10-30-2011, 10:27 PM
On the final night of the season, the nation was marveling at the incredible evening we were treated to as history unfolded before our eyes.

Now that the Cardinals took it several orders of magnitude higher by then winning the World Series and being crowned the best team in the world its just all "meh"?

You're right, it's one thing to hate them, it's another thing to rewrite history for the sake of bias. This isn't Egypt and we're not Pharaohs. And like it or not, the Cards are Champions having overcome an adversity that was historic in nature.Most fans are monogamous to a team and do not practice polygamy in following the game as you choose to (been watching Sister Wives :lol:). That may be why you can see it that objectively. I wouldn't look down on fans who are loyal to their team and don't enjoy success of their rival, even if its high drama. Honestly, it was ugly baseball--bad D, poor pitching.

Those loyalties run really deep with the rival. There would have been very, very few Reds fans who rooted for the Dodgers in the 70s World Series that they played, I either didn't care to watch or watched to see them lose, and the current Cards are fast becoming the same level of rival for this era of Reds baseball. I didn't enjoy watching them win at all, game 6 sucked and will continue to suck, and I have no affinity for the Rangers anymore than "the team playing the Cards is the team I root for."