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View Full Version : Reds MVP should be Mike Leake



Redlegs
09-29-2011, 03:07 PM
I think the Reds MVP should be young Mike Leake. Nobody endured and learned from mistakes like #44. He also, rather quietly, put together a pretty solid season, leading the team in wins, ERA (Cueto didn't qualify) and strikeouts. All of this after a boneheaded move in which he could have really hit the skids and crawled under a rock. He faced his demons like a man and put together a good year with more to come, I think.

redsfan30
09-29-2011, 03:11 PM
Awfully hard to pick an MVP off this team but I would think Cueto would have to get some serious consideration.

Patrick Bateman
09-29-2011, 03:20 PM
It shoudl be Votto, and it's not close IMO.

TRF
09-29-2011, 03:20 PM
Votto. no one else on offense is close. Cueto is a close second, BP third. In fact I might say Phillips is second.

_Sir_Charles_
09-29-2011, 03:25 PM
Volquez. Most Volatile Player.

Seriously though, it's Votto...in a landslide. When you remember how much he got pitched around and that his protection was Rolen for a good part of the year...yeah, no doubt.

dfs
09-29-2011, 03:25 PM
Votto. no one else on offense is close. Cueto is a close second, BP third. In fact I might say Phillips is second.

...I would have to at least nod in Brandon Phillips' direction. He's done everything they've asked him to do. It's not his fault that Dusty was so resistant to using him in the leadoff slot.

Now, I still would give the award to Votto.

westofyou
09-29-2011, 03:31 PM
Votto will get votes league wide, Leake will be mentioned as a 3rd starter moving forward.

No contest

RedsManRick
09-29-2011, 03:51 PM
Not that WAR should be the only input, but I find it a useful context setter...



# Player fWAR
1 Votto 6.8
2 Phillips 6.0
3 Bruce 3.3
4 Stubbs 2.7
5 Cueto 2.6 (inc -0.2 batting)
6 Hernandez 2.0
7 Leake 2.0 (inc 0.5 batting)
8 Bailey 1.9 (inc 0.4 batting)
9 Cairo 1.9
10 Hanigan 1.8


And interestingly, Dontrelle Willis was 11th at 1.7, 0.9 of which was from his bat.

cumberlandreds
09-29-2011, 03:59 PM
Votto is the Reds MVP. Phillips had a fine year but Votto's the man.

crazybob60
09-29-2011, 04:26 PM
Votto did what he did this season very, very quietly....if you look at his number this year as compared to last year (his league MVP season)

2010 -- 150 G, 547 AB, 106 R, 177 H, 36 2B, 37 HR, 113 RBI, 16 SB, 91 BB, .324 BA
2011 -- 161 G, 599 AB, 101 R, 185 H, 40 2B, 29 HR, 103 RBI, 8 SB, 110 BB, .309 BA

I am mean, seriously, I am not complaining in the least. A tad drop in the power stats but that is mainly due to the pitching around of Votto in my opinion. Other than that, really not any glaring holes from year to year, a tad drop in BA but he was right around that previous average for most of the year. The guy is solid, whether he is being pitched around or hitting homers or doing things quietly or doing things with a big bat. He is as consistent as they come.

So...the Reds MVP for me, goes...

1. Joey Votto



2. Brandon Phillips
3T. Mike Leake
3T. Johnny Cueto

Ghosts of 1990
09-29-2011, 04:28 PM
Votto will get votes league wide, Leake will be mentioned as a 3rd starter moving forward.

No contest

Agreed.

Team MVP's don't get caught shoplifting.

dougdirt
09-29-2011, 05:08 PM
Mike Leake... the team MVP? He was a league average pitcher this year (101 ERA+).

Joey Votto. Joey Votto. Joey Votto. Then Joey Votto. Then Brandon Phillips. Then an enormous gap. Then a few other guys. Then maybe Mike Leake. Maybe.

reds1869
09-29-2011, 05:13 PM
No one can match what Votto brought to the table. If we are talking most improved player Leake is in the running but for MVP it is Votto in a cakewalk.

PuffyPig
09-29-2011, 05:59 PM
He also, rather quietly, put together a pretty solid season, leading the team in wins, ERA (Cueto didn't qualify) and strikeouts. All of this after a boneheaded move in which he could have really hit the skids and crawled under a rock. He faced his demons like a man and put together a good year with more to come, I think.

Noce year, but it doesn't mean he helped the team win more thna others.

Votto's the MVP, he was one of the best hitters in baseball.

That trumps a nice little year by quite a bit.

RedsManRick
09-29-2011, 06:15 PM
I will say, though Leake as team MVP is a stretch, he did improve upon last year and upped his workload. The control he showed in college and flashed last year was back. While he'll never miss a lot of bats and thus will always be susceptible to the occasional disaster start where batted balls keep finding a hole, he should be a solid mid-rotation guy for the foreseeable future.

Cueto, Leake, Bailey is a solid (not great, but not bad) 2-3-4... we just need that stopper out in front.

BCubb2003
09-29-2011, 06:32 PM
Leake as the Reds' Comeback Player of the Year?

UKFlounder
09-29-2011, 06:50 PM
I was going to suggest "Most Improved" but your term works as well. Would Bill Bray be a choice for that, or was he on the field enough to deserve that?


Leake as the Reds' Comeback Player of the Year?

HeatherC1212
09-29-2011, 10:27 PM
Isn't there also a pitching award that the Reds give out every year? I have to think Leake and Cueto are both in the running for that one.

Joey is definitely the MVP this year.

marcshoe
09-30-2011, 12:11 AM
Not that WAR should be the only input, but I find it a useful context setter...



# Player fWAR
1 Votto 6.8
2 Phillips 6.0
3 Bruce 3.3
4 Stubbs 2.7
5 Cueto 2.6 (inc -0.2 batting)
6 Hernandez 2.0
7 Leake 2.0 (inc 0.5 batting)
8 Bailey 1.9 (inc 0.4 batting)
9 Cairo 1.9
10 Hanigan 1.8


And interestingly, Dontrelle Willis was 11th at 1.7, 0.9 of which was from his bat.


This list looks spot on to me. :thumbup: The only real differences in a list made from other stats might be flipping Stubbs and Cueto (but this would ignore how much Cueto's time missed hurt the club) and adding in Cordero somewhere. I'm increasingly finding that while I think WAR has its problems, the end results tend to tell the flat-out truth.

GAC
09-30-2011, 03:47 AM
No one can match what Votto brought to the table. If we are talking most improved player Leake is in the running but for MVP it is Votto in a cakewalk.

Yep. And what is even more amazing is the numbers Joey put up batting #3 with the rest of the batting order constantly shifting around him all year. We had no true #4 hitter. No protection.

kaldaniels
10-01-2011, 12:55 AM
I think the Reds MVP should be young Mike Leake. Nobody endured and learned from mistakes like #44. He also, rather quietly, put together a pretty solid season, leading the team in wins, ERA (Cueto didn't qualify) and strikeouts. All of this after a boneheaded move in which he could have really hit the skids and crawled under a rock. He faced his demons like a man and put together a good year with more to come, I think.

This thread establishes one thing. Redlegs is no doubt Mike Leake's mom. Glad to have you on here Mrs. Leake. :beerme:

RedsManRick
10-01-2011, 02:28 AM
This list looks spot on to me. :thumbup: The only real differences in a list made from other stats might be flipping Stubbs and Cueto (but this would ignore how much Cueto's time missed hurt the club) and adding in Cordero somewhere. I'm increasingly finding that while I think WAR has its problems, the end results tend to tell the flat-out truth.

One thing you can do, if you're so inclined, is to adjust for leverage. For SP, it comes out to average in the long run. But closers routinely pitch in situations that are more important to winning. Cordero for example had an average leverage index of 1.6 when he came in to games, so you can argue that we should multiple his WAR by that. Of course, he didn't actually pitch all that well -- he just had a shiny ERA thanks to good defense/luck. But the logic would still hold.

MikeThierry
10-01-2011, 03:03 AM
Would Cueto be the Reds pitcher of the year? I'm looking at his stats and the dude had an amazing year. What amazes me is his dramatic decrease in WHIP from 2010 to 2011. 2010 he had a 1.276 WHIP compared to this year having a 1.090 WHIP