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View Full Version : Closer2012-2.0 or a CoCo-less world



Strikes Out Looking
10-01-2011, 09:34 PM
Assume for a moment that the Reds let Coco go cuckoo for cocopuffs and walk off into the sunset. What are everyone's thoughts about Closer2012-2.0?

I'm not sold on Massett, Chapman or Volquez as being able to close consistently.

And just for discussion's sake --- what is Brad Boxberger's eta?

dougdirt
10-01-2011, 10:11 PM
Even if we bring back Cordero, I wouldn't be too keen on him closing with that atrocious strikeout rate. With that said, I am of the belief that most guys can close with the same ability that they can pitch in the 7th or 8th. So long as the Reds put a guy back there who can miss bats and keep the ball in the park, I will be fine without that guy.

reds1869
10-01-2011, 10:20 PM
I'd really like to see Volquez take his shot at closing. He has the pure stuff and if he knows he is only going one inning at max effort he could be very good. On top of that he won't cost the club anything they aren't already going to spend.

wlf WV
10-02-2011, 12:17 AM
I'd really like to see Volquez take his shot at closing. He has the pure stuff and if he knows he is only going one inning at max effort he could be very good. On top of that he won't cost the club anything they aren't already going to spend.
If his control gets just a little better ,I think he is the perfect candidate.Maybe even as is.

Of course,if it gets dramatically better,he gets a shot in the rotation.

Matt700wlw
10-02-2011, 12:39 AM
I'd really like to see Volquez take his shot at closing. He has the pure stuff and if he knows he is only going one inning at max effort he could be very good. On top of that he won't cost the club anything they aren't already going to spend.

I'm not opposed to this idea.

Sometimes starting isn't what a pitcher is meant to do.

mth123
10-02-2011, 04:37 AM
So lets see if I understand.

We want Volquez to close because he has "stuff' and can air it out for 1 inning and has too many control issues to be a starter that might be OK in the pen.

We want Chapman in the rotation, because he has great stuff that is wasted only airing it out for 1 inning in the pen and his control issues won't be as bad in the rotation.

Seems like a contradiction to me.

IMO, the rotation needs at least 1 strong, established starting pitcher and with Cueto, Leake, Arroyo and Bailey really doesn't have room for question marks like Chapman or Volquez (Arroyo's ill advised extension saw to that). I'd leave Chapman in the pen with Bray, Arredondo, Ondrusek, Wood and Lecure. With a Strong starter added to Cueto, Arroyo, Bailey and Leake in the rotation that leaves one spot on the staff in the pen. The last pen spot goes to whoever they can get for $2 Million or less. If Cordero would come back for that fine, but I doubt it. It could be Masset if he'd agree to a quick deal for less than $2 Million that removes the threat of arb early enough in the offseason to make a decision. Otherwise, the market is pretty crowded and I'd bring somebody in to add to the mix for less than $2 Million. I might also try to add some depth by grabbing a guy or two on a minor league deal similar to the deal with Dontrelle Willis last year (Scott Kazmir might be a guy in a similar situation).

As for Volquez, I actually suspect he'll be improved in 2012, but the Reds need more certainty so I'd look to deal him.

RedsManRick
10-02-2011, 02:27 PM
For me it's either Masset or Volquez. And either way, the 2012 closer is just keeping the seat warm for Boxberger, who I could see locking up the role by the end of next year.

Captain Hook
10-02-2011, 03:03 PM
I think CoCo is the Reds best option but If I had to pick someone else it'd be Chapman.In a perfect world the Reds would've had him ready to start in 2012 but they haven't done it so I believe the closer role is the place he can help the Reds most this coming season.I think he's more likely he'd dominate in that role then he would as a starter.If CoCo comes back I'd do what I had to to get Chapman ready to start even if it means some time in AAA.

Strikes Out Looking
10-02-2011, 05:18 PM
My problem with Volquez is his inability to consistently throw strikes, walks are like kryptonite to a closer and I just am not sure he won't walk the bases loaded everytime he comes in.

wlf WV
10-02-2011, 09:16 PM
So lets see if I understand.

We want Volquez to close because he has "stuff' and can air it out for 1 inning and has too many control issues to be a starter that might be OK in the pen.

We want Chapman in the rotation, because he has great stuff that is wasted only airing it out for 1 inning in the pen and his control issues won't be as bad in the rotation.

Seems like a contradiction to me.

IMO, the rotation needs at least 1 strong, established starting pitcher and with Cueto, Leake, Arroyo and Bailey really doesn't have room for question marks like Chapman or Volquez (Arroyo's ill advised extension saw to that). I'd leave Chapman in the pen with Bray, Arredondo, Ondrusek, Wood and Lecure. With a Strong starter added to Cueto, Arroyo, Bailey and Leake in the rotation that leaves one spot on the staff in the pen. The last pen spot goes to whoever they can get for $2 Million or less. If Cordero would come back for that fine, but I doubt it. It could be Masset if he'd agree to a quick deal for less than $2 Million that removes the threat of arb early enough in the offseason to make a decision. Otherwise, the market is pretty crowded and I'd bring somebody in to add to the mix for less than $2 Million. I might also try to add some depth by grabbing a guy or two on a minor league deal similar to the deal with Dontrelle Willis last year (Scott Kazmir might be a guy in a similar situation).

As for Volquez, I actually suspect he'll be improved in 2012, but the Reds need more certainty so I'd look to deal him.
Or Chapman,while I could get a good return,they're essentially the same guy.(right now)

Chapman's a little younger,but neither are worth the price of Chapman's contract.

Keep Volquez,he's closer to what we need and cheaper(funny how that always creeps into our conversations).

And I agree with you ,I think Volquez will improve,.Very wishful and needy thinking.

mth123
10-02-2011, 10:05 PM
Or Chapman,while I could get a good return,they're essentially the same guy.(right now)

Chapman's a little younger,but neither are worth the price of Chapman's contract.

Keep Volquez,he's closer to what we need and cheaper(funny how that always creeps into our conversations).

And I agree with you ,I think Volquez will improve,.Very wishful and needy thinking.

Except we know that Chapman can pitch in the pen. We don't really know if Volquez can. We have no idea of his ability to go back to back days, how his arm will react to irregular appearances and getting up and down to warm without actually getting in a game, or if his woes in his first inning mean he'll take too long to get warmed up or be of any use when he comes in. Chapman in the pen is a bit of a known quantity. Switching roles with Chapman and Volquez just adds more uncertainty in both spots to a team that above all needs less uncertainty from its pitchig staff.

Chapman's contract is not all that problematic right now. Counting his deferred signing bonus, he'll cost $3.5 Million in 2012 and $3.5 Million in 2013.
After 2013, he'll be arb eligible and due a $3 Million bonus. They really don't need to deal him yet. He'll cost $1.25 Million each December from 2014 to 2020 whether they deal him or not. However, if dealing him nets something established, I'm all for it. I'd just deal Volquez too and not saddle the staff with the uncertainty associated with him.

The only way I'd move Chapman to the rotation is if they can find a deal that makes it make sense to deal Bailey. That would open up the 5th starter role. If they could nab, say, Alex Gordon, for Bailey straight up, then I'd probably give Chapman a look as the 5th starter, bring Masset back along with a cheap vet and still deal Volquez.

REDREAD
10-03-2011, 12:05 AM
If the Reds want to move Volquez into the pen.. well.. it shouldn't be as closer.
It would be in a role like Arrondo had last year.. mop up, until he proves he's effective.
Honestly, if Volquez can't throw strikes as a starter, I doubt he'll be able to do it out of the pen either.. Volquez as closer would make us appreciate Coco a lot.

wlf WV
10-03-2011, 08:41 AM
I thought daily usage of Chapman was a failure already.Wasn't that a problem with his velocity earlier in the year?