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TRF
10-03-2011, 11:20 AM
You get to pick one pitcher, within the system, FA or rumored to be available. Explain how you got him, and project his numbers.

I say the Reds sign C.J. Wilson to a 4 year 51M contract. Wilson has now had 2 straight seasons of 200 IP, and he's getting better. He profiles as even on GB/FB as a starter, has a good K ability and would benefit from switching leagues. His defense in TX certainly doesn't hurt him, and the same holds true in Cincinnati.

34 starts, 225 IP 3.00 ERA 210K's 1.15 WHIP 17 Wins.

This makes the rotation

Wilson
Cueto
Leake
Bailey
Arroyo

schroomytunes
10-03-2011, 11:34 AM
Ok if I'm the GM and I have to get a pitcher by Any means possible this is my plan.

1) I call up Brian Sabean in SF and ask for Johnathon Sanchez, the Giants are loaded with starters and need help offensively so it'a a perfect fit.


Reds trade: Yonder Alonzo and Dave Sappelt

Giants trade: Johnathon Sanchez

-Yonder becomes the Giants 1st baseman replacing Aubrey Huff, while Sappelt gives them a young backup of who could be a 4th/5th OF and replace the losses of Rowand and Ross in CF.

-Sanchez then gives the Reds the Lefty in the rotation that they desperately need and helps to stabilize the rotation.

1)Cueto
2)Sanchez
3)Leake
4)Bailey
5)Arroyo

PuffyPig
10-03-2011, 12:02 PM
[QUOTE=TRF;2488616]You get to pick one pitcher, within the system, FA or rumored to be available. Explain how you got him, and project his numbers.

I say the Reds sign C.J. Wilson to a 4 year 51M contract. Wilson has now had 2 straight seasons of 200 IP, and he's getting better. He profiles as even on GB/FB as a starter, has a good K ability and would benefit from switching leagues. His defense in TX certainly doesn't hurt him, and the same holds true in Cincinnati.

34 starts, 225 IP 3.00 ERA 210K's 1.15 WHIP 17 Wins.

With Wilson being the best starter available, don't be surpised if he gets something closer to 6 years and $100M than 4 years and $51M. Lohse got close to that kind of money.

Scrap Irony
10-03-2011, 12:07 PM
Jay Bruce and Joey Votto to Atlanta for Freddie Freeman, Tommy Hanson, Jonny Venters, and Jason Heyward.

Braves looking to make a splash and willing to pay for it. They need offense-- what better way to get it than Votto and Bruce? Bruce provides 820 OPS pop behind Votto and McCann. With Uggla and perhaps Jones behind him, this offense becomes super powerful and able to overtake Philadelphia. Heyward's lost his shine in the ATL, while Hanson took a step backward this season and Atlanta has seven legitimate starters (Hanson, Jurjenns, Hudson, Lowe, Tehran, Minor, Delgado, not to mention Arodys Vizcaino) for 2011. Freeman has always been overshadowed and only OPSed 795 as a 1B. He's not a cornerstone. (Yet.) Venters is great, but, ultimately, a set-up guy.

Atlanta Lineup:
Bourn CF
Prado LF
Votto 1B
McCann C
Bruce RF
Uggla 2B
Jones 3B
SS

Hanson goes for 33 starts, 205 IP, 3.33 ERA, 200 K, 1.15 WHIP, 19 wins.

Reds decide to play the fence and play for now and later. Heyward is just as talented as Bruce and just as likely to explode. He's also younger, cheaper, and might even play a better RF. In other words, they're pretty much tit for tat. Freeman is a stud waiting to happen, though he'll never be Votto. Still, he's a good bet for 120 OPS+ every year for the next decade. He's also extremely cheap. Hanson is arb-eligible after next season and would be the ace Cincinnati needs. Venters becomes closer. Both are also remarkably cheap.

This should allow the Reds to make a serious run at a free agent TOR pitcher (Wilson if NY doesn't target him), or, if they're really aggressive, flip either Alonso or Freeman to TB as the centerpiece of a Shields swap and go after a FA 1B/LF. It should also keep Jocketty from re-signing Cordero, thereby saving that cash as well.

RedsManRick
10-03-2011, 12:24 PM
I don't think 4/51 comes anywhere close to getting Wilson. He's nominally the best pitcher on the market. I think you're probably looking at more like 5/80. I have a hard time seeing how he doesn't end up in pinstripes, with Boston as the alternative.

While it's hardly novel, I'd target Shields. He simply does everything well. He misses bats. He's got good control. He's got slight groundball tendencies. He's not as good as this year's ERA or as bad as last year's. True talent wise, he's something like a 3.90 FIP guy, but that's in the AL East. The rule of thumb is that you can knock 0.50 off a guy's ERA bringing him to the NL. No, he's not a true "ace" in the Halladay mold, but there's only a dozen or so of those guys and you usually can't trade for them. He's got a contract that's extremely club friendly based on a series of club options: 2012:$7M club option ($2M buyout), 2013:$9M club option ($1.5M buyout), 2014:$12M club option ($1M buyout)

In terms of return, I'd offer a package based around Alonso and Grandal. Only Corcino, Boxberger and Torreys would be off the table.

If I couldn't land somebody in a trade, my top FA target would be Hiroki Kuroda with something like 2/25 -- though that may not be enough.

Oh, and I'd at least call the Mariners to see if Felix would be available under any circumstances (e.g. Votto & Mes for Felix & something).

PuffyPig
10-03-2011, 12:50 PM
It's funny that we all want a guy like Wilson or Shields so we can compete with the big boys in the playoffs, and both Wilson and Shields got raked in their first starts this postseason.

757690
10-03-2011, 01:03 PM
It's funny that we all want a guy like Wilson or Shields so we can compete with the big boys in the playoffs, and both Wilson and Shields got raked in their first starts this postseason.

So did Carpenter, Lee and Halliday.

That's why I think it's silly to build a mid market team around how it will do in then playoffs. I'd rather build the best team that will get into the playoffs every year and let the chips fall where they may.

RedsManRick
10-03-2011, 01:08 PM
So did Carpenter, Lee and Halliday.

That's why I think it's silly to build a mid market team around how it will do in then playoffs. I'd rather build the best team that will get into the playoffs every year and let the chips fall where they may.

I'd say there's still plenty of merit of placing emphasis on your top 3 starters. Certainly not to the detriment to your overall production, but if you have the chance to shift things around, that's a smart place of emphasis.

lollipopcurve
10-03-2011, 02:37 PM
I'd be looking to get a raft of pitching from Toronto for Votto, I think. Painful, but probably necessary to keep the Reds relevant beyond 2012-2013. Romero would be best (Blue Jays would likely want a pitcher back -- Volquez?), but I'd insist on prospects, too. They've got a bunch of guys who are just arriving at the bigs or on the cusp, and I'd be looking to get at least one of those guys if the deal included Romero, and more if it did not. In addition, I'd want Jake Marisnick, the OF who plays at the same level as the Dayton group, making that group of prospects a very promising "next wave" for the Reds.

Maybe the deal nets only the likes of Brandon Morrow or Brett Cecil for the 2012-2013 team, but that still represents an upgrade to the starting staff. The bonus here, and it's an important one, I think, is that the deal waters the minor league system with some legitimate talent that will help push the Reds' "window" out for what could be several more years.

nemesis
10-03-2011, 02:51 PM
I like the idea of Votto/Heisey/Gregorious for Hanson and Heyward.

Great trade for both teams.

I am certain Heyward will grow into himself and become a legit .875 to .950 bat over the next couple years.

Hanson would be a legit #1 for this team.

Tom Servo
10-03-2011, 02:52 PM
For free agent pitchers I would imagine CJ Wilson, Mark Buehrle, and Edwin Jackson are likely to get sizable deals. I would look into the 2nd tier of guys like Chris Capuano, Brad Penny, Jeff Garland, Jeff Francis and Chris Young but I obviously wouldn't count on these guys to be 'frontline' starters and would commit to them for a year or two. In particular I've always loved Chris Young and his stuff but the guy just can't stay healthy.


I'd prepare for the rotation to contain:
Cueto
Leake
Chapman
Bailey

I would look into trading Stubbs, Heisey, or Grandal (and possibly all three in a deal if necessary) for a 'top of the rotation' guy, but I'm inclined to hang onto Alonso as well as Mesoraco.

vic715
10-03-2011, 03:09 PM
Some of these trades I'm reading seem as if some of you are using Votto as a throw in.If I'm going after a good pitcher Votto isn't going in that trade. The Reds have already made that mistake.See Volquez/Hamilton.We have good young talent to pull of a deal to get it done.Only way I trade Votto is for a proven Hitter and nothing less.

Dan
10-03-2011, 03:14 PM
Votto, Stubbs and Bailey (I'd try to sneak Wood instead, but doubt the Jays would go for it) for Romero, Thames and Yunel Escobar.

Thames goes to LF, Heisey to CF full-time

2b Phillips
SS Escobar
1b Alonso
RF Bruce
CF Heisey
LF Thames
3b Frazier/Fransisco
C Mez/Hannigan

Cueto
Leake
Romero
Arroyo
Bailey/Wood/Chapman/et al

TRF
10-03-2011, 03:17 PM
If anything, I'm betting Wilson stays put in Arlington. Ryan knows that Wilson is his kind of pitcher. He'll offer a lot, 70M I'm betting and I bet it will be hard to turn him down.

Out of 162 Rangers games started this year, only 5 games were started by someone other than set 5 man rotation. I think Feliz will make a push to start next year. If that happens AND they resign Wilson, someone is the odd man out. That someone might be Ogando. While he is cheap, he's also 27. ish. :) He's got tremendous stuff though, but hes younger than Harrison, Holland and Feliz. It makes more sense for them to try to deal Colby Lewis, but they won't find any takers for a guy that gave up 35 HR's while pitching in the AL West.

So if the Reds cannot get Wilson because the Rangers keep him, then I'd target Ogando in a trade.

_Sir_Charles_
10-03-2011, 04:22 PM
Yonder Alonso, Juan Francisco & Yasmani Grandal for Dan Haren

The Angels need hitting (mainly at DH, 3rd & C). I'm not thrilled with trading away Juan Francisco (I see him as Rolen's replacement) but if the return is Haren...so be it. I don't see Yonder working out in left and I do NOT deal Votto...so he's got no place on the club IMO. If they want a catcher who's ready right now, then I sub Hanigan for Grandal. Mesoraco should get the majority of the PT next year anyway. If they need someone to back him up...I could live with Corky or maybe Grandal later in the year.

If this doesn't cut it (and it might not...I'm not a GM), then we could add a pitcher who's fighting it out for the #5 slot and take a reliever from the Angels in return. Toss in a Volquez and take an established reliever.

The other pitcher I'd be targeting is Clayton Kershaw. But he's set to go to arbitration so I don't know how to deal with him. If somebody had a clue as to what he'd be offered, we could go from there...but for me, there's too many unknowns for him. But he SHOULD be a main target for us I'd think.

bucksfan2
10-03-2011, 04:35 PM
Yonder Alonso, Juan Francisco & Yasmani Grandal for Dan Haren

The Angels need hitting (mainly at DH, 3rd & C). I'm not thrilled with trading away Juan Francisco (I see him as Rolen's replacement) but if the return is Haren...so be it. I don't see Yonder working out in left and I do NOT deal Votto...so he's got no place on the club IMO. If they want a catcher who's ready right now, then I sub Hanigan for Grandal. Mesoraco should get the majority of the PT next year anyway. If they need someone to back him up...I could live with Corky or maybe Grandal later in the year.

If this doesn't cut it (and it might not...I'm not a GM), then we could add a pitcher who's fighting it out for the #5 slot and take a reliever from the Angels in return. Toss in a Volquez and take an established reliever.

The other pitcher I'd be targeting is Clayton Kershaw. But he's set to go to arbitration so I don't know how to deal with him. If somebody had a clue as to what he'd be offered, we could go from there...but for me, there's too many unknowns for him. But he SHOULD be a main target for us I'd think.

IMO that is too much I would sub in a guy like Volquez for either Grandal or Francisco. If Alonso is part of the deal then so be it. The only issue I see with this trade is you solve one issue while exacerbating another one (LF)

_Sir_Charles_
10-03-2011, 04:41 PM
IMO that is too much I would sub in a guy like Volquez for either Grandal or Francisco. If Alonso is part of the deal then so be it. The only issue I see with this trade is you solve one issue while exacerbating another one (LF)

Well, I'll be honest, I pretty much suck at armchair GM'ing. So it wouldn't surprise me if it's way off. But in regards to left, I don't see Yonder working out there regardless. For me next year, left is Stubbs/Heisey/Sappelt/Frazier with center being Stubbs/Heisey/Sappelt.

But as for it being too much...I don't know. All 3 of those guys are still somewhat unknowns at this point. They've all got potential...but nothing established really. And I was trying to NOT over value our prospects which I normally tend to do. Plus they're all at positions we have replacements for currently.

klw
10-03-2011, 05:33 PM
Simple solution- win bidding for Yu Darvish with a bid for 75 million transfer fee ( it may take even more than that- maybe 100 million) and then do a Dice-Kesq offer of 5 and 50. Hey not it's my money. The problem the Reds face will be finding an affordable top of the rotation starter who is available as they can not force the other team to giving up an arm. I don't see the rationale for going after a second tier arm as it is not enough of a guarantee of an upgrade. Edwin Jackson- is he really that sure of an upgrade over any of the Reds cheaper question marks?

klw
10-03-2011, 05:37 PM
That's why I think it's silly to build a mid market team around how it will do in then playoffs. I'd rather build the best team that will get into the playoffs every year and let the chips fall where they may.

Billy Beane, is that you?

mth123
10-03-2011, 07:42 PM
Multiple options:

1. Sign Mark Buerhle. The Reds have the room to go 3 years $40 Million.
2. Alonso, Grandal and Masset for James Shields
3. Stubbs, Volquez and Masset for Wandy Rodriguez
4. Joey Votto, Matt Maloney and Paul Janish for Madison Bumgarner and Sergio Romo
5. Grandal, Stubbs, Volquez and Frazier for Anibal Sanchez and Logan Morrison

Will M
10-03-2011, 09:11 PM
Multiple options:

1. Sign Mark Buerhle. The Reds have the room to go 3 years $40 Million.
2. Alonso, Grandal and Masset for James Shields
3. Stubbs, Volquez and Masset for Wandy Rodriguez
4. Joey Votto, Matt Maloney and Paul Janish for Madison Bumgarner and Sergio Romo
5. Grandal, Stubbs, Volquez and Frazier for Anibal Sanchez and Logan Morrison

if we could do those deals i'd do #2 and #3 (Massett would have to be replaced in one of the deals). Rotation is Wandy, Shields, Cueto, Leake & Bailey. Arroyo is in long relief until the almost inevitable injury occurs. I personally think a team should look to be about 8 deep in the rotation. we have seen so many teams, ours included, get decimated by pitching injuries. The 7/8 guys that could go if we had multiple injuries would be Lecure, Chapman & Wood if he isn't dealt. The top 5 would be the best Reds rotation in a loooong time.

mth123
10-03-2011, 09:16 PM
if we could do those deals i'd do #2 and #3 (Massett would have to be replaced in one of the deals). Rotation is Wandy, Shields, Cueto, Leake & Bailey. Arroyo is in long relief until the almost inevitable injury occurs. I personally think a team should look to be about 8 deep in the rotation. we have seen so many teams, ours included, get decimated by pitching injuries. The 7/8 guys that could go if we had multiple injuries would be Lecure, Chapman & Wood if he isn't dealt. The top 5 would be the best Reds rotation in a loooong time.

I doubt the Reds could afford to acquire both Shield and Wandy. If Alonso goes, the team will need a middle of the order bat who also would cost money.

savafan
10-03-2011, 11:06 PM
I'm hoping we already have the answer to this question in Aroldis Chapman.

mth123
10-03-2011, 11:27 PM
I'm hoping we already have the answer to this question in Aroldis Chapman.

NO!!!!!!!

The Reds need a proven starter. Chapman is the same kind of question mark that they relied on to sink their chances in 2011. If Chapman is a starter, it needs to be in AAA or as the 5th starter behind a solid group of 4 which would include an acquisition, Cueto, Arroyo and Leake. No more than 1 unproven question mark allowed.

marcshoe
10-04-2011, 01:13 AM
The Reds need to add two starters; Chapman is one. I'm starting to lean toward targeting Wandy as the other, mostly because I think you could get him without sending Alonso the other direction.

Another idea would be to see if you could get Josh Johnson (there have been rumors he's available for the right price) for some sort of Chapman/Grandal/Hamilton package. Or, yeah, Alonso, but I really want to see him in the Reds' lineup.

Will M
10-04-2011, 03:40 AM
The Reds need to add two starters; Chapman is one. I'm starting to lean toward targeting Wandy as the other, mostly because I think you could get him without sending Alonso the other direction.

Another idea would be to see if you could get Josh Johnson (there have been rumors he's available for the right price) for some sort of Chapman/Grandal/Hamilton package. Or, yeah, Alonso, but I really want to see him in the Reds' lineup.

i kinda like the Wandy deal for the same reasons. lets say you could deal Stubbs, Volquez & Masset for Wandy. if Alonso can play LF then we keep him. I like the idea of getting Pagan if he is non tendered (i've heard this rumor several times). he and Sapplet (or Heisey) can fight it out for Cf and 4th OF. Pagan adds a needed lefty bat as done a full season of Francisco. then get 2-3 good bullpen arms via free agency (ie Betancourt) or trade (trade bait is Sappelt/Heisey, Wood, etc)

Wandy, Cueto, Leake, Bailey, Chapman, Arroyo
Bray, Lecure, Arredondo, Ondrusek, plus at least 2 good arms
Mes/Hanigan
Votto, Phillips, Cozart, Rolen/Francisco, backup SS (maybe Frazier), Cairo
Bruce, Pagan, Sappelt (or Heisey) & Alonso

that seems workable with the payroll restrictions and what we have to offer others via trade. it lets us keep both Votto & Alonso for 2012. it improves the pitching although not as much as i would like. Chapman get into the rotation. i think Wandy is the guy to target if we can get him for Stubbs plus.

Spitball
10-04-2011, 07:52 AM
I am not certain about Wandy Rodriguez. He is owed a lot of money through 2013, has a steadily declining strikeout rate, and plays for a division rival. I plan to live a long time and don't want to be watching Alonso going all Lance Berkman against the Reds.

Also, Buerhle worries me. He has done well with a sub 5.0 strikeout rate, but I am not sure how that works as a guy gets older and loses what little velocity he had. I'm for staying away from him.

CySeymour
10-04-2011, 09:51 AM
The thing about the free agent pitchers, the Yankee's rotation is a mess, so they are going to overpay for good starters and not blink an eye doing it.

Scrap Irony
10-04-2011, 10:48 AM
The thing about the free agent pitchers, the Yankee's rotation is a mess, so they are going to overpay for good starters and not blink an eye doing it.

This.

Especially if they lose in the first round of the playoffs.

You can say goodbye to any chance of Wilson or anyone else the Yanks decide is necessary.

cumberlandreds
10-04-2011, 11:17 AM
The thing about the free agent pitchers, the Yankee's rotation is a mess, so they are going to overpay for good starters and not blink an eye doing it.

Red Sox too. Anyone any good at all will get huge contracts from one of these two teams. Such are the inequities of MLB.

Mario-Rijo
10-04-2011, 11:42 AM
I think it has to be Shields though I gotta give credit to Sir Charles and Schroomytunes for their ideas of Sanchez and Haren pretty interesting stuff. I am not tied to Alonso, Grandal or Francisco I think they represent the 3 best guys to deal off due to both value and the fact I don't really believe we need them especially if we make multiple deals or one big mega deal.

bucksfan2
10-04-2011, 02:52 PM
I want nothing to do with Sanchez. He is a left handed version of Edinson Volquez.

I think Shields is a great target.

I don't see why the Angles would let Haren go.

I believe CC has an opt out clause in his option so he will hit the FA market.

Why not Josh Johnson down in Miami? Although I don't know how good of a trading partner they would be.

CaiGuy
10-04-2011, 03:17 PM
I think Shields is the most realistic target.

I think that Alonso and Wood would do the trick...

reds1869
10-04-2011, 03:26 PM
I'm firmly in the Shields camp. I don't know what it will take to get him, but I would guess that CaiGuy's idea of Alonso and Wood would get it done.

RedsManRick
10-04-2011, 03:30 PM
Why not Josh Johnson down in Miami? Although I don't know how good of a trading partner they would be.

All I've heard from Florida is that they're looking to make a big splash as they enter the new stadium -- as in Pujols big. I don't think they'll be looking to offload salary this offseason.

REDREAD
10-04-2011, 04:12 PM
I'd dangle Volquez and Wood for a veteran pitcher that can give us lots of innings and hold the #3 slot down. No specific names, but I think we need to hold onto Franscisco and Alonso for depth (barring getting a new LF outside the organization).
If we get another pitcher, we have no room for Volquez/Wood anyhow.
If we can get a pitcher like Shields, dangle Homer as well for trade bait.

I think the priority is to get a starter that's not going to give us quality starts on a regular basis, and hopefully give 200 IP. That will help keep the pen fresh.

I know everyone is down on Arroyo, but I am hopeful he can bounce back next year and hold down the #3 or #4 slot. That almost has to happen for us to contend. Realistically, they aren't sending him to the pen as the long guy.

So in summary, we can't count on Homer, Volquez or Wood next year, beyond being the #5 starter. If they exceed that, I will be thrilled, but we really need innings, IMO.
The offense is good enough, especially if we can keep Alonso and Franscico.
Time to cut bait on one of the disappointing young pitchers.

TRF
10-04-2011, 05:34 PM
this thread is degenerating. :( I want to know specifically.. what would you do as GM for the rotation?

I have three more of these threads coming. :)

dfs
10-05-2011, 12:29 AM
I would want to talk with Edwin Jackson's agent. So many teams have given up on the guy and all he does is pitch well. He doesn't seem to be high on the radar when articles talk about big off season free agents. I wouldn't break the bank for him, but I would make a serious offer.

If I can't get him, I to talk to Javier Vasquez' agent. I know he's not a shutdown TOR starter, but you'll get 30 starts with a decent ERA. I can live with that and as a GM I stand a chance of signing him.

And I would talk with Dontrelle Willis agent. Give him a major league contract. Use him as a long man/spot starter/lefty/bunter/pinch runner/last bat standing. If he can find more elsewhere, then he should go, but as a second lefty shoring up Bill Bray (with Chapman as a closer) he stands a chance of creating a career.

Spitball
10-05-2011, 07:30 AM
I want nothing to do with Sanchez. He is a left handed version of Edinson Volquez.

Sanchez walked 2.9/9 this past season. That doesn't sound like Volquez to me.

Reds/Flyers Fan
10-05-2011, 02:15 PM
James Shields would own the National League. There's clearly smoke there, so let's get to the fire. Figure out a way to get him to move north Walt!

wlf WV
10-06-2011, 03:56 PM
How about Oswalt.

Let's get Shields and Oswalt,go for it. You might get Oswalt for his contract and not lose anything substantial.

You take the risk of losing some money,not valuable property,and are competitive for a championship,I would hope.

Get Votto protection at the deadline if the youth left isn't getting it done or over the winter if the situation is there.

Spitball
10-06-2011, 05:56 PM
How about Oswalt.

Let's get Shields and Oswalt,go for it. You might get Oswalt for his contract and not lose anything substantial.

You take the risk of losing some money,not valuable property,and are competitive for a championship,I would hope.

Get Votto protection at the deadline if the youth left isn't getting it done or over the winter if the situation is there.

I understand Oswalt won't be back with the Phillies (They have $2 million buyout on him) unless he is willing to take a contract in the neighborhood of $8 million. There is speculation that he might be looking for a Chris Carpenter-like contract of two years and $21MM.

He had back problems this year and did not look like the Oswalt of old last night.

wlf WV
10-06-2011, 06:22 PM
I take the chance.Physical pending.I expect the Yankees or Red Sox get him.

mdccclxix
10-10-2011, 11:02 AM
I am inclined to offer 35 y/o ground-baller Javier Vazquez 1 year 8-10 million, or 2 years 18 million.

Cueto
Vazquez
Leake
Arroyo
Chapman

You still have all your prospects to go after a big bat like Kemp or Hanley.

Tony Cloninger
10-10-2011, 12:46 PM
Wood, Volquez, Grandal, Nick M and Heisey to TB for Shields, Cobb, Brandon Gomes and Tim Beckham?

Jon Garland and Kevin The Kouz are also FA....would they be worth 1 year incentive laden contracts?

mth123
10-10-2011, 06:56 PM
Wood, Volquez, Grandal, Nick M and Heisey to TB for Shields, Cobb, Brandon Gomes and Tim Beckham?

Jon Garland and Kevin The Kouz are also FA....would they be worth 1 year incentive laden contracts?

I can't see TB pulling the trigger. Even with Shields and Cobb dealt, they are still 6 deep in the rotation and at least 5 of them would be ahead of Volquez and Wood for a spot. Grandal is not a guy for 2012 so that leaves them with Just Heisey and Masset as help for 2012. I think they would want a deal that is less pitching heavy and has at least one every day bat that that they can pencil in the line-up. Sub Alonso for Wood and Volquez and let them keep Cobb and you may be on to something.

Garland had Rotator Cuff surgery in July. If he'd come on a minor league deal and wouldn't mind waiting in line while proving himself like Willis did this year, he'd be OK. I think he'd get a better shot to re-establish himself in a big league rotation for a bigger payday after 2012 some place else.

I like Kouzmanoff OK, but he's basically a Johnny Gomes who can play 3B. Again, nothing wrong with him on the bench if he's cheap, but 3B is a weak spot around the majors and he'd probably get a better chance to play some place where Rolen, Cairo, Francisco and Frazier aren't already on the 40 man roster. I'm guessing some team would offer him more money and a better deal than the Reds probably should.

jojo
10-12-2011, 01:24 PM
Is it too late to trade surplus for Doug Fister?

mth123
10-12-2011, 07:37 PM
I'm really starting to see some logic in Wandy. I'd build a package around Stubbs and Volquez and see if it could get done.

757690
10-28-2011, 03:32 PM
Considering the knee jerk reaction of letting Francona and Epstein leave, any chance the Red Sox would consider trading Josh Beckett?

RedsBaron
10-28-2011, 04:00 PM
Considering the knee jerk reaction of letting Francona and Epstein leave, any chance the Red Sox would consider trading Josh Beckett?

Can the Reds afford all of the beer and chicken and video games that would be necessary to keep Beckett happy? Remember, Cincinnati is not a major market team. ;)

Scrap Irony
10-28-2011, 04:15 PM
I'll chip in a KFC bucket and a six pack of Old Hudephol to get him.

All we need are 80 more "true fans".

And $16 million or so.

And prospects enough to entice the Red Sox without bankrupting the Cincinnati future.

757690
10-30-2011, 11:33 PM
From Dan Hayes twitter account:


One team source doubts #Padres will have Aaron Harang back next season. Unclear if Harang or Pads rejected the mutual option.

Any interest if available?

dfs
10-31-2011, 09:20 AM
Any interest if available?

The lesson from Harang is that pitching is volatile. We know from experience that Harang is no better than what we have. We also know from observation that what we have isn't good enough.

I don't know that signing Harang as a depth move would be greeted with cheers. I don't know if Harang would want to come back.

I don't see bringing him back as a sign that the organization is moving forward.

(Boy, that was a really long way of saying....no.)

reds1869
10-31-2011, 10:00 AM
It think Harang holds some pretty bad feelings in his heart for Dusty. I don't see the move happening.

mdccclxix
10-31-2011, 10:35 AM
Please no. Let 2006 and 2007 rest.

wlf WV
11-05-2011, 02:12 PM
If Jocketty and Castellini can't buy a #1.I see no other choice except trading Mesoraco,Grandal, Alonso,Votto,Bruce or Phillips(?).It would take a miracle for this team to be competitive with this pitching staff.

I don't think anyone else has enough trade value to help us get the pitching we need.If they did ,I believe Jocketty would of made a move already.

That's why,I would rather we buy a pitcher if possible.I don't know of anyone but Oswald and I don't think he'll come here.

Cincinnati is desperate for pitching to compete and I think Jocketty has backed himself into a corner.