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TRF
10-03-2011, 12:06 PM
My 2nd of 5 installments, covering what I believe are areas of need. You are the GM. Get a Left Fielder for 2012. He can come from within the organization, FA or rumored to be available in a trade.

I pick Yonder Alonso.

This is the position the Reds do not need to spend a dime on. I'm not one that cares too much about LF defense, and Alonso did well in limited playing time at the major league level. He offers legitimate protection for Votto, even though he's LH himself. Votto's L/R splits are negligible. He hits everyone.

Alonso makes the league minimum.

Now, I'd have preferred the Reds gave Hermida more of a shot in the regular season, but for some reason, despite a fantastic year at AAA, they didn't.

Scrap Irony
10-03-2011, 12:15 PM
I'd live with Alonso, I think, until his defense becomes so atrocious that he can't be lived with. With an off-season to work on it (why he didn't last off-season is a mystery), perhaps he gets to merely bad.

If not, Sappelt or Heisey is a fine secondary option and fourth outfielder, with Frazier as a great fifth OF/ PH.

(Stubbs, IMO, has to be dealt.)

bucksfan2
10-03-2011, 12:24 PM
I am going to throw out a name just for fun, JD Drew. If he bounces back from his poor year this season he may just be worth a look.

As of right now I am content to run Alonso out there every day and hope for the best.

RedsManRick
10-03-2011, 12:35 PM
My opening day LF & leadoff man is Dave Sappelt. I like Alonso, but if Sappelt can hit .280/.330/.400, Alonso would have to continue to put up that .900 OPS to make up the huge difference between them defensively. Given our pitchers' struggles, I'd prefer to err on the side of getting production from defense at this point.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I'm trading either Alonso or Votto this offseason, period.

If I had to pursue a FA, I'd be looking at Josh Willingham. He'd be a nice source of thump from the right side and could fill the cleanup spot. Of course, that still leaves us without a traditional leadoff hitter. I'd love to see Hanigan leadoff (it worked for the Rays with Jaso) if Sappelt wasn't in there. But Dusty values speed way too much to consider that - clogging the bases and all. And there's some merit to that. I would want guys ahead of Votto that can score from 1st on a double. I would just prioritize getting the guy on first base to begin with. So while I'd try it, I know it's not feasible.

My lineup with Sappelt:

Sappelt
Phillips
Votto
Rolen
Bruce
Stubbs
Hanigan/Mesoraco
Cozart

My lineup with Willingham:

Phillips
Rolen
Votto
Willingham
Bruce
Stubbs
Hanigan/Mesoraco
Cozart

Small sample size granted, but Phillips has made consistent improvements on making more, better contact and I think that showed in his BABIP this year. I think a .340+ OBP is a fair expectation and that makes him a solid candidate.

Scrap Irony
10-03-2011, 12:43 PM
My opening day LF & leadoff man is Dave Sappelt. I like Alonso, but if Sappelt can hit .280/.330/.400, Alonso would have to continue to put up that .900 OPS to make up the huge difference between them defensively. Given our pitchers' struggles, I'd prefer to err on the side of getting production from defense at this point.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I'm trading either Alonso or Votto this offseason, period.

I'd be cool with this as well.

IMO, there's not much difference between Alonso, Sappelt, and Heisey in terms of overall value. Each looks to be above average at a very cheap cost.

Stubbs is the odd man out.

mace
10-03-2011, 12:44 PM
I'd platoon both LF and CF. In left, Alonso and Sappelt. In center, Heisey against RH (his splits, oddly, are much, much better that way) and Stubbs against LH (when he is actually pretty good).

That would enable you to direct your resources toward a top-end pitcher. (If somebody from the OF group has to be involved to get that done, so be it.)

reds1869
10-03-2011, 01:07 PM
I'd platoon both LF and CF. In left, Alonso and Sappelt. In center, Heisey against RH (his splits, oddly, are much, much better that way) and Stubbs against LH (when he is actually pretty good).

That would enable you to direct your resources toward a top-end pitcher. (If somebody from the OF group has to be involved to get that done, so be it.)

I like your idea very, very much.

Eric_the_Red
10-03-2011, 01:32 PM
I'd try to improve the pitching so Alonso's defense shouldn't be so magnified and let him play (and bat) every day.

dougdirt
10-03-2011, 02:08 PM
I would be willing to hand the job to Sappelt or Alonso and I would be fine with either decision. Both guys have different qualities, but would provide good value.

dfs
10-03-2011, 02:25 PM
I don't see how the lion's share of the playing time can't be designated for Yonder. He has to be either traded or on the big league roster. The only way another team will trade for him is if they think they are getting value because you can't play both Yonder and Votto, so a trade is pretty far fetched.

I don't mind keeping Sappelt as an option, but frankly in left field last year Sappelt was part of the problem, not the solution. It won't hurt him to go back to Louisville and prove that he belongs here when he gets his next shot.

The difference between Chris Heisey the starter and Chris Heisey off the bench is puzzling. I'll keep him around, but at the least I want him to face some competition. Heisey also was part of the crater that was left field last year.

If I'm the GM, I want to put my money into pitching. That means for a left field free agent I'm looking for three things (well, after price).

#1 I want a guy who can cover some ground. He may have just been blowing smoke, but Dusty gave some quotes out that when he was "resting" Yonder, it was more because they were in a park with large dimensions than the "handedness" of the pitcher.

#2 Quotes from #1 aside. I'm looking for a right handed batter. Between Vott, Yonder, Bruce and (Rolen's replacement) Francisco, and Phillips in the leadoff slot, this lineup could use a right hander who can hit a bit.

#3 All things being equal, I would rather have a player who had been to the playoffs and done well than a player with limited experience.

Veteran right handed hitter with some range who has had post season experience. Somebody willing to accept a 4 OF role, but isn't going to kill you if you give him 400 at bats.

Andruw Jones pops out at you. He covers ground and kills left handed pitching. He's already in the spare part role.

Ryan Ludwick - Boy, that sure was some year, wasn't it? It was just three years ago. Limited post season experience. Not the range we want.

Magglio Ordonez - Even if he would take the role, I don't think we want him there.

Juan Rivera - I'm guessing he's going to want to be a regular. And be paid like one as well.

Cody Ross - What an odd career it's been for Cody. At first glance, it looks like he's everything we're after, but he doesn't really have a platoon split.

There you go. If I'm the GM, I go after Andruw Jones. Pay him a bit more than he's probably worth to keep him happy and let him feast on national league pitching.

lollipopcurve
10-03-2011, 02:26 PM
Sign Willingham. (He has the same agent as Jay Bruce, which could be a good thing.)

Then trade Alonso or Votto for pitching. (I tend to prefer the Votto to Toronto for several arms.)

cinreds21
10-03-2011, 02:35 PM
I honestly don't know who. Yonder is my first choice, however, I think I would rather have a right-handed bat. The Reds' really don't have a power hitter from the right side. They have Rolen, but that's no guarantee. If Stubbs stays in the middle of the lineup, then he could provide some pop, but not what I'm fully looking for. I'd be OK with Yonder, but just in the back of my head I want a righty there.

dougdirt
10-03-2011, 02:37 PM
I don't mind keeping Sappelt as an option, but frankly in left field last year Sappelt was part of the problem, not the solution. It won't hurt him to go back to Louisville and prove that he belongs here when he gets his next shot.


Sappelt had 107 at bats this year, in sporadic playing time. In AA/AAA the last two years he had hit a combined .336/.393/.502 with 67 walks and 98 strikeouts in 823 plate appearances. Not sure he has anything left to "prove" in the minors.

In the Majors, the sample size is small and he got off to a slow start, hitting just .195/.195/.220 with no walks and 8 strikeouts in his first 11 games, where he noted that he was pressing and getting away from what had gotten him there. From that point forward he hit .273/.342/.379 with 7 walks and 9 strikeouts (27 games) and aside from a bit of lowered power, most of that seems pretty much in line with what I would expect (improved power will add a little to the average, which I would expect).

_Sir_Charles_
10-03-2011, 04:36 PM
Well, I'm for trading Alonso. So for me, he's out of the mix. Looking at the free agent list for OF'ers...it's not that appealing. And we're going to be pretty strapped in terms of the budget. So for Left Field, we'll mix and match. Center and Left will be manned by Stubbs, Heisey & Sappelt. They can rotate whichever way suits that days game best. All 3 can play either left or center. If someone steps up in AAA, they can be added to the mix if need be. I'd LOVE to see Danny Dorn get a shot because I really think his bat will play in the bigs in a platoon situation...but I don't think the Reds see it that way.

If Francisco gets traded, then Frazier is the main backup to Rolen. If not, then Frazier can play some left too.

Kc61
10-03-2011, 05:19 PM
Sappelt? No way is he a starting left fielder.

Alonso? If necessary can do it. But it's not his position.

Reality - Reds need to acquire a LF, a SP, and a closer.

That's right. Three guys will be needed. From the outside.

I know, it's expensive. Good players cost some money. Or make deals that are financially favorable.

It's what's needed to compete. A LF, a SP, a closer. From the outside.

MikeS21
10-03-2011, 05:27 PM
There is something to be said for choosing the bat over defense.

If you take the absolute best defensive team in baseball, and compare it to the absolute worst defensive team in baseball, I think you will be surprised to find that the worst team with allow about 80-90 more baserunners over the ENTIRE season than the best team. That means just over one extra baserunner every couple of games.

I have not done the math on the 2011 season yet, but was extremely surprised when I did the math on the 2000-2010 seasons.

So, would you accept one extra baserunner every two games in order to have Alonso's bat in the line-up full-time?

WVRedsFan
10-03-2011, 05:29 PM
Alonso.

schroomytunes
10-03-2011, 06:28 PM
This is where I make a splash in FA for a legit LF. I like both Willingham and Cuddyer in this hole and both would be that #4/5 hitter in the lineup providing protection for Votto and Bruce.

dfs
10-03-2011, 06:29 PM
Sappelt had 107 at bats this year, in sporadic playing time. In AA/AAA the last two years he had hit a combined .336/.393/.502 with 67 walks and 98 strikeouts in 823 plate appearances. Not sure he has anything left to "prove" in the minors.

I understand exactly what you are saying and where you are going with this Doug, I really do.

One of the biggest criticisms of the team Walt assembled in 2011 was that he expected too many kids to take steps forward. That's exactly what I would try and prevent for 2012. I think it's pretty easy to minimize the risk of that by bringing in a decent veteran bat who doesn't break the bank.

In other words, you send Sappelt back to Louisville not for his development, but for the rounding out of the team. Sappelt goes crazy in Louisville and hits 500 then I'm sure you can find an injury to call him up.

Now, I may have misread things and perhaps he can make a decent trade of Alonso or even Votto, but if you're going to keep those two guys, then a think a veteran right handed outfielder who can cover some ground is a decent target for this team.

dougdirt
10-03-2011, 07:00 PM
I understand exactly what you are saying and where you are going with this Doug, I really do.

One of the biggest criticisms of the team Walt assembled in 2011 was that he expected too many kids to take steps forward. That's exactly what I would try and prevent for 2012. I think it's pretty easy to minimize the risk of that by bringing in a decent veteran bat who doesn't break the bank.

In other words, you send Sappelt back to Louisville not for his development, but for the rounding out of the team. Sappelt goes crazy in Louisville and hits 500 then I'm sure you can find an injury to call him up.

Now, I may have misread things and perhaps he can make a decent trade of Alonso or even Votto, but if you're going to keep those two guys, then a think a veteran right handed outfielder who can cover some ground is a decent target for this team.

What about Sappelt says that he can't do what this supposed veteran can do? Let's be honest, Walt has even said, the Reds aren't going out and making a splash in free agency, so the vet for left field is likely to be a guy who is average at best.

Sappelt is absolutely going to be a better defender than anyone you bring in for left field. He is a plus center fielder, much less left fielder.

As for Walt relying on the kids to step up.... the kids weren't the problem at all with this team in 2011. The problems were Rolen (vet), Janish (vet), Renteria (vet), Gomes (vet), Volquez (vet), Arroyo (vet) and Wood (young guy).

The Reds are a team who needs to spend wisely, even on smaller contracts because as we have seen, the Reds aren't going to eat even $3M contracts more often than not. So is going out and acquiring a guy who is very likely to reproduce what Sappelt is almost guaranteed to give you really the smart move, when there is almost no upside in it, where as they could be plenty of upside with Sappelt just playing left field.

Would it truly surprise anyone if Sappelt went out in 2012 and hit .300/.350/.450 with plus defense in left field?

Would it truly surprise anyone if the Reds brought in a cheap free agent veteran who could do that?

Strikes Out Looking
10-03-2011, 07:12 PM
Jose Bautista. Yeah, y'all know how he gets there.

mth123
10-03-2011, 08:50 PM
Some factors at play here.

1. The Reds have to make getting a pitcher priority number 1.
2. The Reds must have a third middle of the order run producer to complement Votto and Bruce
3. Only one of Stubbs, Heisey and Sappelt should be in the line-up at any given time when a RH is on the mound. Stubbs should probably only play against LHP and spend the rest of his days as a defensive replacement and pinch runner.

If the team can acquire the arm it needs by signing a free agent (Mark Buerhle anyone?) or dealing some combo of Stubbs, Grandal and Volquez or something along those lines, then the answer is Alonso. Case closed.

If Alonso (or Votto or Bruce) need to go in the deal for a pitcher, then the answer is not in the organization. The Reds need to go get an OF who can hit in the middle of the order

If Willingham could be had for less than $9 Million, he's a great choice.

If a trade is needed, Carlos Quentin should be obtainable as a rental.

If a starter is obtained and the Reds are intent on sticking Chapman in the 5th rotation spot, dealing Homer Bailey becomes an option and I'd build a package around him for Alex Gordon.

If not Gordon, Seth Smith is a guy I really like to play against RHP (with Heisey and eventually Sappelt in CF and Bruce in RF). Against LHP, Frazier or maybe Sappelt could play LF and Stubbs could play CF.

Kc61
10-03-2011, 09:35 PM
What about Sappelt says that he can't do what this supposed veteran can do? Let's be honest, Walt has even said, the Reds aren't going out and making a splash in free agency, so the vet for left field is likely to be a guy who is average at best.

Sappelt is absolutely going to be a better defender than anyone you bring in for left field. He is a plus center fielder, much less left fielder.

As for Walt relying on the kids to step up.... the kids weren't the problem at all with this team in 2011. The problems were Rolen (vet), Janish (vet), Renteria (vet), Gomes (vet), Volquez (vet), Arroyo (vet) and Wood (young guy).

The Reds are a team who needs to spend wisely, even on smaller contracts because as we have seen, the Reds aren't going to eat even $3M contracts more often than not. So is going out and acquiring a guy who is very likely to reproduce what Sappelt is almost guaranteed to give you really the smart move, when there is almost no upside in it, where as they could be plenty of upside with Sappelt just playing left field.

Would it truly surprise anyone if Sappelt went out in 2012 and hit .300/.350/.450 with plus defense in left field?

Would it truly surprise anyone if the Reds brought in a cheap free agent veteran who could do that?

It would surprise me if Sappelt could OPS .800 over a full season. He doesn't have much power. He doesn't walk much. I don't see his SLG or his OBP being very high.

He also doesn't throw very well as far as I can tell.

Sappelt does make a lot of contact and, without the arm, fields well.

So, I would be very surprised if Sappelt put up the numbers you suggest.

If the Reds don't deal, I'd prefer Alonso or Heisey in LF.

Spitball
10-03-2011, 10:28 PM
If Alonso can be packaged for a pitcher, I'd think about someone else for leftfield. Otherwise, he has to be kept in left so he can be moved to first in case Votto is traded or leaves for free agency. He will be cheap for a few more years, and that is valuable to the organiztion. He is valuable insurance.

dougdirt
10-03-2011, 10:41 PM
It would surprise me if Sappelt could OPS .800 over a full season. He doesn't have much power. He doesn't walk much. I don't see his SLG or his OBP being very high.

He also doesn't throw very well as far as I can tell.

Sappelt does make a lot of contact and, without the arm, fields well.

So, I would be very surprised if Sappelt put up the numbers you suggest.

If the Reds don't deal, I'd prefer Alonso or Heisey in LF.

I think you are either underestimating Sappelt's power or his ability to hit for an average. He didn't show much power with the Reds and not as much when he came off the DL after his oblique injury. He didn't quite have the same violence in his swing that he did before the injury. He slugged .529 in Louisville (2010 and 2011) before he injured his oblique. After he returned, he slugged just .405 in about 20 more at bats at Louisville. I feel a lot more comfortable about Sappelt carrying a .175 IsoP than a sub .125 IsoP next year.

The walks aren't much, but that is because he makes a ton of contact. He doesn't miss good pitches that often.

Superdude
10-03-2011, 11:14 PM
I think you are either underestimating Sappelt's power or his ability to hit for an average. He didn't show much power with the Reds and not as much when he came off the DL after his oblique injury. He didn't quite have the same violence in his swing that he did before the injury.

So we should expect a different Sappelt next year? You've be raving about the ferocity of Sappelt's swing for two years now, and when he got called up, it looked like he could barely muster a fastball past second base.

mth123
10-03-2011, 11:29 PM
I like Sappelt for CF. Stubbs is the guy I'd prefer to deal.

dougdirt
10-03-2011, 11:49 PM
So we should expect a different Sappelt next year? You've be raving about the ferocity of Sappelt's swing for two years now, and when he got called up, it looked like he could barely muster a fastball past second base.

As I said, he seemed to be swinging with less violence once he came back from the oblique injury. He is a 35 doubles and 15 HR guy in GABP.

marcshoe
10-04-2011, 01:07 AM
Alonso. If it's necessary to trade him for a pitcher (and it had better be a good one!) Willingham's solid.

gilpdawg
10-04-2011, 04:53 AM
I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but Sappelt reeks of AAAA player to me.

I vote for Alonso. I see Stubbs being moved and Heisey/Sappelt sharing CF duties, with one of those covering LF at places like Denver where you need speedy guys in the OF.

Mario-Rijo
10-04-2011, 10:59 AM
I think Heisey is ready but I like Sappelt in LF also just because I believe he is a solid leadoff option which again is a place where we suffered this season until Brandon started playing there. I just am not a big Alonso fan right now, I know he hit well but I am not ready to believe that can continue, seemed to me Dusty did a shrewd job of playing him against guys he could be successful against. Maybe he can hit at the major league level though but his fielding is clearly an issue and even if he improves I don't ever expect him to do it well enough not to be a liability out there.

How about Stubbs to KC for Gordon, KC needs that kind of athleticism in CF badly I know they have Cain but I believe even with the K's Stubbs has more offensive ability. You let Sappelt play CF, Gordon in LF, Bruce in RF and Heisey roams. Heck we might be able to expand such a deal to include Escobar and Soaria. Maybe even include a team like Tampa (Upton) or the White Sox (Quentin) etc.

lollipopcurve
10-04-2011, 11:06 AM
How about Stubbs to KC for Gordon, KC needs that kind of athleticism in CF badly I know they have Cain but I believe even with the K's Stubbs has more offensive ability.

KC wants pitching, and they need it badly. You want Gordon, you're coughing up Bailey, and likely more.

Mario-Rijo
10-04-2011, 11:46 AM
KC wants pitching, and they need it badly. You want Gordon, you're coughing up Bailey, and likely more.

3 way deal with Tampa including Upton (to KC with Volquez or Wood) and Shields (to us w/Gordon) with Alonso, Grandal, Boxberger going to Tampa. Something along those lines sounds doable. It'd be nice if we could offload Arroyo to KC but I suspect that is a longshot but he would do better in that Stadium than GABP.

TRF
10-04-2011, 11:59 AM
I'd do Bailey and Alonso for Gordon. But nothing more. Otherwise as GM, I just stick Alonso in LF.

BuckeyeRedleg
10-04-2011, 12:25 PM
Andruw Jones? He would come cheap.

Dan
10-04-2011, 12:53 PM
Bailey and Stubbs for Gordon is an interesting deal for sure.

RedsManRick
10-04-2011, 01:26 PM
Andruw Jones? He would come cheap.

He's a platoon guy at this point.

_Sir_Charles_
10-04-2011, 02:04 PM
Bailey and Stubbs for Gordon is an interesting deal for sure.

Looks like overpaying a ton IMO. A lightning footed center fielder with some excellent pop and a pitcher with TOR stuff who's still very young for a guy who's only one season removed from being nearly declared a bust.

BuckeyeRedleg
10-04-2011, 03:00 PM
He's a platoon guy at this point.

OK, then. Him and Francisco in LF. Francisco can also back up Rolen. Between backing up Rolen and platooning with Jones, he could get 500 PA's.

Heisey in CF. Trade Stubbs. That or send him to AAA and teach him to choke up and smack the ball around.

No Alonso in LF please. Either trade him or trade Votto.

Will M
10-04-2011, 07:56 PM
3 way deal with Tampa including Upton (to KC with Volquez or Wood) and Shields (to us w/Gordon) with Alonso, Grandal, Boxberger going to Tampa. Something along those lines sounds doable. It'd be nice if we could offload Arroyo to KC but I suspect that is a longshot but he would do better in that Stadium than GABP.

sign me up

mdccclxix
10-28-2011, 11:28 AM
Watching this World Series reminds me that we need another reliable bat. Not only that, but we need less K's. Who has the least K's in baseball this year?

St. Louis

and

Texas

Kind of an anomoly, and every year fans like me chase the flavor of the month in terms of what won the championship (last year it was SF's pitching staff), but I think there is some merit to at least being in the top 10 in fewest K's. Especially if your team already has some SLG% to build with.

To that end, LF, I want players that can keep their K's in line with their walks, etc. I know I've said defensively I hate to down grade to the level of Alonso, but he's a strong option right now. Likewise with Sappelt. Both of their track records will tell us they will make a lot of contact and draw enough walks to stay at or above a .350 OBP.

No more Stubbs. Trade him. I know that's CF, but it relates because I think Sappelt should get the CF job.

LF: Alonso and Heisey as 4th outfielder, LIDR
CF: Sappelt and Heisey
RF: Bruce

Now you have 3 starting OFers that can get on base. LF and CF go from .310 and .324 OBP to over .350, with a likely .425 slg% combined.

I think Stubbs is holding this lineup back offensively and you can get better high K/high slg% from Francisco who will be helping out 3b/PH/LF.

klw
11-07-2011, 03:27 PM
Yoenis Cespedes?
Could he be the answer for LF. I have not seen whether the Reds were at his showcase or not. He will be expensive but I wonder if he and Chapman were friendly?

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15469

The video concerns Yeonis Cespedes, a 26-year-old outfielder who is currently in the Dominican looking to sign with a big league team. His resume from Cuba is significant as he hit .333 during the 2010-11 campaign while joining Jose Abreu in establishing a new league record with 33 home runs. He's a tremendous talent—arguably the best all-around player to come out of Cuba in a generation. He's a legitimate centerfielder with plus power and speed and is in his prime. Much like Aroldis Chapman was the best pitcher from the island, Cespedes is the best position player, and Mercedes will be expecting (and likely getting) a Chapman-like deal in the neighborhood of $30 million.

See also:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/11/yoenis-cespedes-to-gain-free-agency.html

and
http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz/marlins_to_visit_cespedes/7925314

Cespedes, said to be 26, held an open workout last Friday in the Dominican Republic with scouts from numerous clubs in attendance.
A Marlins contingent, led by owner Jeffrey Loria, will visit him later this week in the Dominican, according to major-league sources.
Other teams, including the Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers and Nationals, also had a significant presence at Cespedes’ workout, sources say.

HotCorner
11-07-2011, 03:57 PM
I came here to mention Cespedes too.

lollipopcurve
11-07-2011, 04:09 PM
I love the idea of Cespedes, but it sounds like the bidding could get astronomical.

Scrap Irony
11-08-2011, 09:56 AM
I love the idea of Cespedes, but it sounds like the bidding could get astronomical.

This.

And I'd probably break the bank to sign him, as I'm a sucker for Cubans with talent. (Okay, I'm pretty much a sucker for talent, but Cuban just makes it cool.)

klw
11-08-2011, 12:17 PM
The Cespedes video is back up!!!
Yoenis Cespedes: The Showcase - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kREZHmOR1bg&feature=youtu.be)

The really freaky physical stuff starts at about the 6:15 mark. This includes repeated 45" box jumps, 1300' leg press with two guys sitting on the machine, 6.3 60, benches 350. Sort of strikes me as Wily Mo meats Vlad. If baseball doesn't work out for him he would make a killing at the NFL combine!

lollipopcurve
11-08-2011, 12:59 PM
This might be the kid the Reds need to solidy the club. It's a significant risk, but consider that they may have an edge with Chapman on the roster and Alonso/Grandal also having Cuban roots. (The only other team with a comparable Cuban presence is the White Sox, and supposedly they're pretty cashed strapped.)

You sign this kid and deal Votto for a boatload of pitching from Toronto (they have young arms in spades).

That, folks, is the kind of move an organization like the Reds may need to make to get to the next level and stay there for a while.

If the kid costs 50 million, that's many. many, many millions less than Votto would cost to keep around.

Well worth considering.

mdccclxix
11-08-2011, 01:36 PM
This might be the kid the Reds need to solidy the club. It's a significant risk, but consider that they may have an edge with Chapman on the roster and Alonso/Grandal also having Cuban roots. (The only other team with a comparable Cuban presence is the White Sox, and supposedly they're pretty cashed strapped.)

You sign this kid and deal Votto for a boatload of pitching from Toronto (they have young arms in spades).

That, folks, is the kind of move an organization like the Reds may need to make to get to the next level and stay there for a while.

If the kid costs 50 million, that's many. many, many millions less than Votto would cost to keep around.

Well worth considering.


I agree, especially since you can find surplus value in young cost controlled arms in exchange for Votto. Still, I'd like to keep Votto this year and see if this Cuban guy can help in LF. That is, if the scouts think he can do it.

Scrap Irony
11-08-2011, 03:06 PM
This might be the kid the Reds need to solidy the club. It's a significant risk, but consider that they may have an edge with Chapman on the roster and Alonso/Grandal also having Cuban roots. (The only other team with a comparable Cuban presence is the White Sox, and supposedly they're pretty cashed strapped.)

You sign this kid and deal Votto for a boatload of pitching from Toronto (they have young arms in spades).

That, folks, is the kind of move an organization like the Reds may need to make to get to the next level and stay there for a while.

If the kid costs 50 million, that's many. many, many millions less than Votto would cost to keep around.

Well worth considering.

Votto for Marisnick, Hutchison, Drabek, Deck McGuire, and Nestor Molina on top of a contract for Cespedes would suck on one hand, as Votto is exactly what you want Cespedes to be. But, on the other hand, it'd be a pretty phenomenal paradigm-shifting move by Cincinnati.

I'd do it.

I think.

At least, I'd do it today.

But I might not tomorrow.

buckeyenut
11-08-2011, 03:49 PM
Having done nothing more than internet research and having never seen any of those Toronto prospects, that looks like a huge haul. Not sure I would do it, but it is intriguing.