NBA 2012......Maybe

[Razor Shines]

Lebron hate is crazy. Actually saw this on my FB news feed after the game ended:

"Lebron DID NOT lead them. Without his whole team on fire he would have been just hurt and crying. "

Lol


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[TeamSelig]

I haven't ran into much Lebron hate lately. His finals run was pretty amazing.

[ervinsm84]

Lebron hate is crazy. Actually saw this on my FB news feed after the game ended:

"Lebron DID NOT lead them. Without his whole team on fire he would have been just hurt and crying. "

Lol


That's when you gotta do this to those people

Jim Rome Blocked Blocked - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxcqMrAEcpI)

[Todd Gack]

I love when great players put up great performances to win championships. Game 6 of ECF will always be looked back at as the the turning point.

Congrats to Lebron.

[The_Mudshark]

@ Todd Gack - Seinfeld reference?

Congrats to LeBron, I don't like him and never have, but he earned it.

Watching him celebrate last night was actually quite touching, I felt happy for him and his team mates.

Perhaps my favorite story in NBA basketball this year was this:

http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/fandom/post/_/id/4731/zombie-sonics-fans-throw-support-to-heat

[Todd Gack]

@ Todd Gack - Seinfeld reference?

Congrats to LeBron, I don't like him and never have, but he earned it.

Watching him celebrate last night was actually quite touching, I felt happy for him and his team mates.

Perhaps my favorite story in NBA basketball this year was this:

http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/fandom/post/_/id/4731/zombie-sonics-fans-throw-support-to-heat

I'm Dutch.

[NJReds]

I am really thrilled for Battier, Miller, and Juwan Howard for getting rings.

Don't forget Eddy Curry. Maybe all of the Eddy Curry hate can stop now. :D

[NJReds]

I'm happy for LeBron. He will go down as one of the great all-time players, and his numbers actually look similar to Oscar Robertson (although I never saw Robertson play). But LeBron is truly a unique talent.

I'm a little tired of the "vindication" angle that he finally won. This wasn't the 1980 Olympic Hockey team. The Heat winning wasn't a surprise, it was expected. It just took a year longer than expected. This was more like Hulk Hogan winning at Wrestlemania. It was planned and the outcome was always expected.

The question now is how many? The sky seems to be the limit since the NBA retooled the CBA to keep other teams from building "super teams." And every aging star that doesn't have a ring will line up to join the "Big 3" for the veteran's minimum for their chance to hold a trophy. I think only injury stands in their way from a long run of titles.

OKC has a great young group of stars, but due to the new CBA, they won't be able to build much around them, and will probably lose Harden if he commands a big contract.

[NJReds]

n/m

[bucksfan2]

I don't really follow the NBA and really can't stand LeBron. I appreciate his talents but can't stomach rooting for him. I think his title/s will always have a psuedo astric by them. Its the new age of basketball where everyone is friends and they are more than willing to join forces than win by themselves. I liked the old school games where the playes on the court didn't like each other. I liked when players like Magic and Bird and Jordan etc. would rather quit than join forces with their enemies.

I think the most telling thing in today's NBA is when Durant was quoted saying/tweeting "congrats to the Miami Heat......" Really?!?!?!?! I don't think you would have heard Stocton or Malone saying that to the Bulls.

[Chip R]

I don't really follow the NBA and really can't stand LeBron. I appreciate his talents but can't stomach rooting for him. I think his title/s will always have a psuedo astric by them. Its the new age of basketball where everyone is friends and they are more than willing to join forces than win by themselves. I liked the old school games where the playes on the court didn't like each other. I liked when players like Magic and Bird and Jordan etc. would rather quit than join forces with their enemies.


You mean like when Isiah Thomas and Magic used to kiss before tipoff or when Magic and Bird became BFFs after they did a shoe commercial together?

[Johnny Footstool]

I think the most telling thing in today's NBA is when Durant was quoted saying/tweeting "congrats to the Miami Heat......" Really?!?!?!?! I don't think you would have heard Stocton or Malone saying that to the Bulls.

I think it's admirable. Aren't we supposed to be gracious when we lose?

[bucksfan2]

Chip You mean like when Isiah Thomas and Magic used to kiss before tipoff or when Magic and Bird became BFFs after they did a shoe commercial together?

I thought the Isiah Thomas Magic incident was a move by Isiah to say they weren't afraid of playing with people with AIDS.

As for Magic and Larry they became friends out of respect later on in their careers.


I think it's admirable. Aren't we supposed to be gracious when we lose?

If it was intramurials I would think its admirable. I guess I am just wired a little different.

[WMR]

I don't really follow the NBA and really can't stand LeBron. I appreciate his talents but can't stomach rooting for him. I think his title/s will always have a psuedo astric by them. Its the new age of basketball where everyone is friends and they are more than willing to join forces than win by themselves. I liked the old school games where the playes on the court didn't like each other. I liked when players like Magic and Bird and Jordan etc. would rather quit than join forces with their enemies.

I think the most telling thing in today's NBA is when Durant was quoted saying/tweeting "congrats to the Miami Heat......" Really?!?!?!?! I don't think you would have heard Stocton or Malone saying that to the Bulls.

So silly. And it's asterisk.

All those Laker/Bull teams had multiple hall of famers on them as well.

People just like hating on LeBron.

#LaFamilia

[BuckeyeRed27]

I think it's admirable. Aren't we supposed to be gracious when we lose?

I agree. Durant lost perfectly last night. He will most certainly have his moment and it might be soon.

[dabvu2498]

I thought the Isiah Thomas Magic incident was a move by Isiah to say they weren't afraid of playing with people with AIDS.


Nah. That went down a few years before Magic announced he had AIDs. IIRC, there had been a big broohaha during one of the regular season Lakers-Pistons games and that was their symbolic way of ending it. But they were good friends to boot.

Until, of course, Isiah spread rumors that Magic was gay and Magic helped blackball Isiah from the Dream Team.

[IslandRed]

I think it's admirable. Aren't we supposed to be gracious when we lose?

Yep. Having class isn't a character flaw. It doesn't preclude competing as hard as you can until the last second ticks off.

[Assembly Hall]

I think it's admirable. Aren't we supposed to be gracious when we lose?

Yes sir..........where I come from that is called "sportsmanship".

[Razor Shines]

So silly. And it's asterisk.

All those Laker/Bull teams had multiple hall of famers on them as well.

People just like hating on LeBron.

#LaFamilia

Yeah, Pippen on those Bulls championship teams was better than the current version of DWade. There were times when Lebron put the Heat on his back but he also had solid performances from his teammates at times, just as other NBA greats have had.

[nmculbreth]

So silly. And it's asterisk.

All those Laker/Bull teams had multiple hall of famers on them as well.

People just like hating on LeBron.

#LaFamilia

I don't think that the fact that LeBron needed to be surrounded by better talent to win is the reason for the discontent, it's more related to the inorganic way that the Heat came to be.

As you point out the Bulls were loaded with talent aside from Jordan, but for the most part the nucleus of the Bull's dynasty was homegrown and it took time for the team to develop into the team that won 6 championships in 8 years. The same is more or less true for the Lakers, though Kareem was obviously a FA acquisition.

While I don't blame LeBron for feeling that he needed to surround himself with more talent in order to get a ring, but at the same time I don't feel like it's unfair to say that the way that the Heat came together just doesn't feel right and can see why people are slow to embrace them as a team.

[Revering4Blue]

Yeah, Pippen on those Bulls championship teams was better than the current version of DWade. There were times when Lebron put the Heat on his back but he also had solid performances from his teammates at times, just as other NBA greats have had.

Pippen never carried a team on his back by himself the way Wade did in 2006.

[Revering4Blue]

I'm happy for LeBron. He will go down as one of the great all-time players, and his numbers actually look similar to Oscar Robertson (although I never saw Robertson play). But LeBron is truly a unique talent.

I'm a little tired of the "vindication" angle that he finally won. This wasn't the 1980 Olympic Hockey team. The Heat winning wasn't a surprise, it was expected. It just took a year longer than expected.

Agreed. The Heat have two Superstars and one star--Sorry, I don't consider Bosh a Superstar. Many teams, including some playoff teams, do not even have one star. Indiana comes to mind. With a fortified bench and a much better interior defensive squad than given credit for, it was almost a given.

I'm also happy for Erik Spoelstra. I cannot believe that the Pat Riley is going to come in and save the day nonsense went on as long as it did.



OKC has a great young group of stars, but due to the new CBA, they won't be able to build much around them, and will probably lose Harden if he commands a big contract.

I would not be surprised if Perkins is amnestied in an attempt to pay both Harden and Ibaka.

[Razor Shines]

Pippen never carried a team on his back by himself the way Wade did in 2006.

So you skipped over the part where I said "current version of Wade"? Also Wade never ever D'd up the way Pip did.


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[Revering4Blue]

So you skipped over the part where I said "current version of Wade"? Also Wade never ever D'd up the way Pip did.


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You mean the Wade who was playing while obviously injured and not at full strength.

[Mutaman]

So you skipped over the part where I said "current version of Wade"? Also Wade never ever D'd up the way Pip did.


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Wade is far from 100%. Watch him opt out from the Olympic team because he needs time to heal. Still not a bad effort.
As far as comparing 2006 Wade with Pippen, .......put Pippen on that Heat team instead of Wade and the Heat wouldn't have gotten past Round 1. Pippin was a nice side kick. Wade put that team on his back and carried it to a championship.
As far as d'ing up, Wade has always played very good defense.

[Mutaman]

PS: I will go to my grave believing that if Wade hadn't gotten hurt in Game 6 of the 2005 Eastern Division Championship, he would now have 3 rings.

[Razor Shines]

Wade is far from 100%. Watch him opt out from the Olympic team because he needs time to heal. Still not a bad effort.
As far as comparing 2006 Wade with Pippen, .......put Pippen on that Heat team instead of Wade and the Heat wouldn't have gotten past Round 1. Pippin was a nice side kick. Wade put that team on his back and carried it to a championship.
As far as d'ing up, Wade has always played very good defense.

I know Wade wasn't 100%, that's what I mean by "current version", the 2012 playoff run. Wade's a good defender but Scottie was an amazing defender, like on Lebrons level.




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[Tony Cloninger]

I'll be glad when the NBA Finals is over so they can talk about something else on that show. There's not enough going on with one game every other day to fill two hours of discussion. I actually like Skip and look forward to less Stephen A. the rest of the summer

When Baseless can make Smith look more clear and levelheaded....then there is a problem. Skip looks like a borderline mental case.......And all that show is about is what he wants to talk about.... I Hate LeBron....Tony Romo is a great QB and the Cowboys will win the DSB again this year....And Tim Tebow. Have we not jumped the shark on how far we will go to tolerate this man stupidity? (I mean Skip's, not yours. :D )

[Assembly Hall]

I don't think that the fact that LeBron needed to be surrounded by better talent to win is the reason for the discontent, it's more related to the inorganic way that the Heat came to be.

As you point out the Bulls were loaded with talent aside from Jordan, but for the most part the nucleus of the Bull's dynasty was homegrown and it took time for the team to develop into the team that won 6 championships in 8 years. The same is more or less true for the Lakers, though Kareem was obviously a FA acquisition.

While I don't blame LeBron for feeling that he needed to surround himself with more talent in order to get a ring, but at the same time I don't feel like it's unfair to say that the way that the Heat came together just doesn't feel right and can see why people are slow to embrace them as a team.

Actually, Kareem was a trade acquisition.

But I agree with what you said there. I dont hate LeBron, I just dont like the Heat for how they came together, just like the Yankees.

With that being said, I think the Heat as they are great for the NBA.

[WVRed]

Wonder if Dan Gilbert is on suicide watch?

His proclamation of the Cavs winning a championship before LeBron does really doesn't hold much weight now.

[Assembly Hall]

Wonder if Dan Gilbert is on suicide watch?

His proclamation of the Cavs winning a championship before LeBron does really doesn't hold much weight now.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbup:

[Orenda]

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbup:

Well, maybe he was just trying to fire up the season ticket holders...probably better than this.


Oh no! We suck again! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4jGSvxCRp4)

[improbus]

Perhaps it is good that the NBA season ended. I had a dream where Kevin Durant was hanging out with my friends, where I was continuously posting him up around the house. Then, I was walking Ashley Cole (England and Chelsea left back) back to his car when we noticed that someone had broken into his car. So, Cole called the cops and when they showed up, something ridiculous happened. The cop wrote down his number (a 20 digit long British style phone number, apparently my brain doesnt know how many numbers are on a standard British phone number) and his name and the pointed to the name on the card. I looked at the name and it said, "Gordon Hayward" (spelled correctly incidentally). He then looked at me, winked, and left. I'm glad basketball has ended. The next step is to stop drinking before bed...

[Mario-Rijo]

My 2 cents on the Heat and the Bulls. #1 Nary a Bull player was a HOF without MJ's presence. Rodman & Pippen were borderline guys without the rings (though Dennis had rings before MJ with Isiah). Horace Grant might have been had he stayed in Chicago but as we saw he didn't and therefore he isn't because without MJ he was exposed. No one else was close to HOF caliber. My point is MJ demanded much from his teammates as he was directed to by the only other legit HOF'r Phil Jackson. The other point which was already made is that the Bulls were grown together with the one exception of Rodman who was toiling away in San Antonio. None of them were Superstars on other teams who decided to join MJ and MJ stayed with the team who drafted him and took that team from also ran to top of the heap.

As far as the LeBron thing goes he was on his way to MJ and Kobe type status as he took Cleveland to an NBA finals. He was garnering alot of respect for doing what MJ had done, putting a franchise on his back and changing the fortunes & perception of that franchise. Everyone loves an underdog, most don't care for frontrunners. He looked like the former but in the end proved to be the latter IMO. Spin it anyway you want, LeBron took the easy way to his title, by allowing another HOF'r to get him there. I don't have a problem with Dwade, the Heat or really even Bosh for doing what they done, just LeBron and I root against them because I lost respect for him.

[improbus]

My 2 cents on the Heat and the Bulls. #1 Nary a Bull player was a HOF without MJ's presence. Rodman & Pippen were borderline guys without the rings (though Dennis had rings before MJ with Isiah). Horace Grant might have been had he stayed in Chicago but as we saw he didn't and therefore he isn't because without MJ he was exposed. No one else was close to HOF caliber. My point is MJ demanded much from his teammates as he was directed to by the only other legit HOF'r Phil Jackson. The other point which was already made is that the Bulls were grown together with the one exception of Rodman who was toiling away in San Antonio. None of them were Superstars on other teams who decided to join MJ and MJ stayed with the team who drafted him and took that team from also ran to top of the heap.

As far as the LeBron thing goes he was on his way to MJ and Kobe type status as he took Cleveland to an NBA finals. He was garnering alot of respect for doing what MJ had done, putting a franchise on his back and changing the fortunes & perception of that franchise. Everyone loves an underdog, most don't care for frontrunners. He looked like the former but in the end proved to be the latter IMO. Spin it anyway you want, LeBron took the easy way to his title, by allowing another HOF'r to get him there. I don't have a problem with Dwade, the Heat or really even Bosh for doing what they done, just LeBron and I root against them because I lost respect for him.
I'm not even sure where to start. Pippen is one of the 5 best defenders in NBA history (along with Russell, Jordan, LeBron, and probably Olajuwon or Payton IMO). Everyone was impressed with LeBron (and rightfully so) for defending all 5 positions, but Scottie was one of the first to do it. Also, Scottie essentially averages 20, 7, 6 and 2.5 steals for an 8 year all while playing what was essentially a hybrid SF/PG. Everything points to him being a HOFer, and a top tier one at that. Bill Simmons in his Book of Basketball put him as the 24th best player of all time.

As for LeBron, I couldn't disagree more with what you said. You can say that LeBron hitched his wagon to Wade and Bosh so that he didn't have to win it all himself, but he ended up doing exactly what he was trying to avoid. In fact, I would argue that Bosh and especially Wade were smart to hitch their wagons to the human freight train that is LeBron. He lead the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks in the post season. He got every tough defensive assignment and had to make up for Wade putting up stinkers in a bunch of games along with Bosh missing essentially a series and a half and scoring and rebounding below his season average. Every other player on that team was a question mark going into every game. Will Battier or Miller make any threes? Will Chalmers find a way to ruin another fast break with Wade on one wing and LeBron on the other? Will Haslem make a jumper at all? What crappy center will be forced to play? LeBron made up for every gaping deficiency on the team.

Now, did I love the Decision? No. But,if a guys worst mistake made millions for the Boys and Girls club, I can live with that.

[Razor Shines]

I'm not even sure where to start. Pippen is one of the 5 best defenders in NBA history (along with Russell, Jordan, LeBron, and probably Olajuwon or Payton IMO). Everyone was impressed with LeBron (and rightfully so) for defending all 5 positions, but Scottie was one of the first to do it. Also, Scottie essentially averages 20, 7, 6 and 2.5 steals for an 8 year all while playing what was essentially a hybrid SF/PG. Everything points to him being a HOFer, and a top tier one at that. Bill Simmons in his Book of Basketball put him as the 24th best player of all time.

As for LeBron, I couldn't disagree more with what you said. You can say that LeBron hitched his wagon to Wade and Bosh so that he didn't have to win it all himself, but he ended up doing exactly what he was trying to avoid. In fact, I would argue that Bosh and especially Wade were smart to hitch their wagons to the human freight train that is LeBron. He lead the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks in the post season. He got every tough defensive assignment and had to make up for Wade putting up stinkers in a bunch of games along with Bosh missing essentially a series and a half and scoring and rebounding below his season average. Every other player on that team was a question mark going into every game. Will Battier or Miller make any threes? Will Chalmers find a way to ruin another fast break with Wade on one wing and LeBron on the other? Will Haslem make a jumper at all? What crappy center will be forced to play? LeBron made up for every gaping deficiency on the team.

Now, did I love the Decision? No. But,if a guys worst mistake made millions for the Boys and Girls club, I can live with that.
Pretty much agree with all of this.

[WMR]

If you think MJ would have hung around Cleveland his entire career if the best player they put on his team was freakin' Antawn Jamison, you're insane. He would have left with a quickness.

[improbus]

If you think MJ would have hung around Cleveland his entire career if the best player they put on his team was freakin' Antawn Jamison, you're insane. He would have left with a quickness.

Imagine Magic or Bird playing on some of the teams Barkley had in the late '80's. They would have went to Phoenix too. Bird and Magic had championship teams in their first two years and were constantly surrounded with HOF'ers. Would either of them have spent their prime with Mike Gminski as the second best player on their teams? Also, MJ's front office was smart NOT to give in to his whims (unlike the Cavs w/ LeBron, the players don't know what is best for an organization). And, as we've seen, Jordan shouldn't be making any personnel decisions. This was really evident in the Dream Team documentary when Michael and Scottie went out of their way to embarass Toni Kukoc. They hated the way Jerry Krause was drooling all over Kukoc while not taking care of Scottie's contract. But, Kukoc was excellent for Chicago and helped the Bulls have the greatest season in NBA history.

One other thing about the Heat. Why isn't Spoelstra getting any credit? Sure he had the best player on Earth, but Phil did too and he got tons of credit. Here is why I bring this up. Spoelstra got LeBron to change his game mid-season. LeBron didn't want to play PF (and has said after the title that he doesn't expect that change to be permanent), but Spo got him to do it and it was that change that turned Miami around. It allowed Wade and LeBron to coexist better and opened up the floor for their shooters. But, it takes alot of guts and pull to get the best player in basketball to play a way he doesn't want to play, and not too many coaches would be able or even try to do that with their superstars. It was an excellent display of tactical and personnel coaching.

[Assembly Hall]

Some pretty good stuff there fellas.

I personally dont like what LeBron did to Cleveland or the way he did it. And I especially dont like the fact that he was the local kid made good and turned his back on his "home town" team. But what I think doesnt matter, what Lebron thinks, does. And that is fine by me, America is the land of oppurtunity.

As far as the Pippen talk goes, history has already written that chapter. To those that say Jordan made him, I can see where they are coming from however I would say what if he played those "prime years" with LA, Portland, New York, or even Indiana? Something tells me that he would have found his way into the Hall without MJ given the right team.

[improbus]

Some pretty good stuff there fellas.

I personally dont like what LeBron did to Cleveland or the way he did it. And I especially dont like the fact that he was the local kid made good and turned his back on his "home town" team. But what I think doesnt matter, what Lebron thinks, does. And that is fine by me, America is the land of oppurtunity.

As far as the Pippen talk goes, history has already written that chapter. To those that say Jordan made him, I can see where they are coming from however I would say what if he played those "prime years" with LA, Portland, New York, or even Indiana? Something tells me that he would have found his way into the Hall without MJ given the right team.
Pip came within a few bad Rasheed jumpers of beating the Lakers and taking Portland to the finals.

Also, doesn't everyone from Ohio who wants to do something great leave? Our license plate and State Quarter used said, "Birthplace of Aviation." I always found this abundantly sad. Ohio is not actually where aviation happened, just where the guys who were involved we're born. I always thought we should have put our horrific presidents on the coin and let people marvel at our amazing contribution to the highest office in the land.