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texasdave
10-04-2011, 10:31 PM
Commissioner David Stern floated it as an idea more than a firm proposal: a 50-50 revenue split.
Even so, the union's reply was unequivocal.
"They said, 'We can't do it."' according to Stern.
And with that, the remainder of the preseason was lost and the first two weeks of the regular season moved to the brink of cancellation.
The NBA shelved the rest of its exhibition schedule Tuesday and will wipe out the first two weeks of the regular season if there is no labor agreement by Monday.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/nba/10/04/labor.meeting.ap/index.html#ixzz1ZrnOjNTe

Roy Tucker
10-06-2011, 01:29 PM
I must say, the NBA is really rolling the dice here.

They are perilously close to an NHL-like reduction in sports market mindshare and fandom.

bucksfan2
10-06-2011, 03:05 PM
I must say, the NBA is really rolling the dice here.

They are perilously close to an NHL-like reduction in sports market mindshare and fandom.

IMO the NHL made the right move for the future of the league. It may have set them back 10 years, but it had to be done.

I have to think the NBA is in some serious trouble right now. I don't see a solution out there that the players agree too nor do I see a deal the owners are willing to offer. It could be a lost season.

texasdave
10-10-2011, 10:59 PM
NBA Commissioner David Stern cancels the first two weeks of the season.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/nba/10/10/lockout.ap/index.html#ixzz1aQzef0PF

CTA513
10-11-2011, 01:52 AM
I remember how the NBA was supposed to learn from the NFL lockout and avoid all this.

:laugh:

texasdave
10-20-2011, 09:40 PM
The breakdown of NBA labor talks Thursday likely will force more games to be canceled after negotiations failed to yield a deal to end the lockout.
After 30 hours of negotiations over three days, the two sides remained divided over two main issues - the division of revenues and the structure of the salary cap system.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/nba/10/20/lockout.negotiations.end.ap/index.html#ixzz1bN8pAf8x

Or maybe not. My personal deadline is Christmas Day. No games by Christmas Day and I am sitting this season out.

Roy Tucker
10-21-2011, 11:18 AM
Both sides of these negotiations are plain stupid.

They are making the mistake that there is an NFL-or-MLB-like pent-up passionate demand for NBA basketball. But 90% of NBA "fans" will go "hum, no pro ball, let's watch football, hockey, college hoops, etc etc." and won't skip a beat.

Maybe this is what the owners want is to completely blow up the sport to neuter the player's union and radically restructure the economics. But I think they are sorely underestimating the damage they are doing to their sport. They'll put it back to the stone age of the late 70's when the Finals were on tape delay after the 11:30 news because they drove the market away.

texasdave
10-21-2011, 07:10 PM
Three days and 30 hours' worth of talks ended on a nasty note Thursday in NBA labor negotiations. And only one thing seemed fairly certain: more games were likely to be cut. Possibly even the season.

Players insist that's the outcome owners wanted all along - "preordained," as union executive director Billy Hunter said.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/nba/10/20/lockout.negotiations.end.ap/index.html#ixzz1bSNq8l7d

BuckeyeRed27
10-21-2011, 07:33 PM
I like the NBA, but I won't miss it. It would be nice to have the playoffs next spring, but even there is plenty else to watch. Between college hoops, the start of baseball and even soccer (try it, you might like it!) there is plenty out there for fans to watch.

Joseph
10-21-2011, 10:07 PM
I don't know anyone personally who will miss it one iota.

jmac
10-22-2011, 10:57 AM
As stated, with college hoops, NFL and then ST around the corner, there are plenty of choices out there.

Yachtzee
10-22-2011, 12:07 PM
I think the underlying reason for this is fallout from the shenanigans pulled by Lebron James, Chris Bosh and Dwayne Wade. Small market teams benefit from an NFL-style system not just from keeping a ceiling on salaries, but also by prevent top talent from gravitating toward large markets. Success in the NFL is determined more by football acumen than by market-size. Green Bay and Indy wouldn't have teams, let alone successful ones, if the NFL was like the NBA or MLB. But because the NFL system keeps talent spread across markets, small markets can thrive and be profitable.

Boston Red
10-22-2011, 04:27 PM
It also obviously helps that the NFL only has 16 games, so there's just the single, national television contract (ok, there are 5 separate networks, but they are all national contracts that the teams share evenly). With 82 and 162 games, respectively, that model obviously wouldn't work in the NBA or MLB. And that drives a large portion of the wealth differential between big and small markets in those leagues.

Razor Shines
10-23-2011, 07:47 PM
I'll miss it but not like I would miss the NFL or MLB.

I'm not into holding boycotts if they come back I'll happily watch.

Caseyfan21
10-23-2011, 09:11 PM
I could care less about the NBA. If there is an intriguing story line in the post season or a Game 7 I might watch a game or two but otherwise I largely ignore the NBA in favor of college basketball. That's really kind of depressing for the NBA because I am a 26 y/o male (their target audience) and I actually grew up watching quite a bit of NBA. But once I got to college I pretty much started only watching college ball and lost interest.

Yachtzee
10-24-2011, 01:43 PM
It also obviously helps that the NFL only has 16 games, so there's just the single, national television contract (ok, there are 5 separate networks, but they are all national contracts that the teams share evenly). With 82 and 162 games, respectively, that model obviously wouldn't work in the NBA or MLB. And that drives a large portion of the wealth differential between big and small markets in those leagues.

The way to get around that is to require all local broadcast contracts be either negotiated or approved by the league to ensure no teams are hiding money through deals with team-owned media outlets and then split local revenues 50/50 team/league. Then divvy up league revenues equally. It won't get rid of all revenue disparity, but it will alleviate the problem.

Reds/Flyers Fan
10-24-2011, 05:57 PM
I'm sure I'm not alone in hoping the entire NBA season is canceled. It's so refreshing to watch ESPN and not see worthless pro basketball highlights played by the usual bored players.

And it's great to see more NHL highlights!

BuckeyeRed27
10-24-2011, 06:14 PM
I'm sure I'm not alone in hoping the entire NBA season is canceled. It's so refreshing to watch ESPN and not see worthless pro basketball highlights played by the usual bored players.

And it's great to see more NHL highlights!

It is interesting that the NBA has this reputation. The NBA has been fantastic and entertaining for the past few seasons, yet this is a common complaint by people.

gilpdawg
10-24-2011, 07:12 PM
It is interesting that the NBA has this reputation. The NBA has been fantastic and entertaining for the past few seasons, yet this is a common complaint by people.

There's an elephant in the room when it comes to a lot of people's criticism of pro basketball, and that's as far as I will go with it. (That elephant is not necessarily on this board)

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Razor Shines
10-24-2011, 07:31 PM
It is interesting that the NBA has this reputation. The NBA has been fantastic and entertaining for the past few seasons, yet this is a common complaint by people.

Yeah. I also have found the NBA very entertaining the last few seasons. Maybe some people want it to be like the college game, but it's never again going to be like the college game. I love the college game too, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the incredible athleticism and skill of NBA players.

gilpdawg
10-25-2011, 02:19 AM
I don't understand the people who say "college players have better fundamentals." Where do the best college players end up? The NBA. Did they forget how they played for their whole life when they went pro? Of course not. I think a lot of the problem with people who don't like the product on the court stems with the 24 second clock, which makes things too quick to run old school Bob Knight style offenses, which is what "Middle America" likes. Even if it is like watching paint dry.

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Razor Shines
10-25-2011, 05:35 PM
I don't understand the people who say "college players have better fundamentals." Where do the best college players end up? The NBA. Did they forget how they played for their whole life when they went pro? Of course not. I think a lot of the problem with people who don't like the product on the court stems with the 24 second clock, which makes things too quick to run old school Bob Knight style offenses, which is what "Middle America" likes. Even if it is like watching paint dry.

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Well if you can't appreciate the beauty of an old school well run college offense then you confuse me as much as people who complain about the nba.

gilpdawg
10-25-2011, 06:32 PM
Well if you can't appreciate the beauty of an old school well run college offense then you confuse me as much as people who complain about the nba.

I appreciate it at the high school and college level, but the quality of the athletes at the pro level is a waste if they are just standing around pick and rolling every play. They need to be unleashed.

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nmculbreth
10-25-2011, 06:39 PM
It is interesting that the NBA has this reputation. The NBA has been fantastic and entertaining for the past few seasons, yet this is a common complaint by people.

Amen.

Like many people, I stopped following the NBA post-Jordan and almost exclusively watched college basketball but I started casually watching the NBA a few years ago and I think the product on the court is as good as it's ever been. To be sure there are some bad games, but as a whole the quality of play is fantastic. I still watch UC games and the NCAA tournament, but otherwise I'll take an NBA game over a college game any day of the week. The quality of play in the NBA is lightyears ahead of the NCAA.

Razor Shines
10-25-2011, 06:44 PM
I appreciate it at the high school and college level, but the quality of the athletes at the pro level is a waste if they are just standing around pick and rolling every play. They need to be unleashed.

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I mostly agree. Which is why I dont try to compare the two. I was just responding to your comment that an old school college offense is like watching paint dry.

gilpdawg
10-25-2011, 11:43 PM
I mostly agree. Which is why I dont try to compare the two. I was just responding to your comment that an old school college offense is like watching paint dry.

Ah, I didn't really mean that literally. More of a jab at the type of people who call WLW and ask why they never have Votto bunt. The "stuck in the past, everything was better 40 years ago" type guys. Heck, I'm an IU fan so I grew up watching that style of hoops, but that doesn't mean I want to see Kobe play like that. There's a segment of fans who would like that, though, and that is what I don't get about it.
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Reds/Flyers Fan
10-26-2011, 12:52 AM
It is interesting that the NBA has this reputation. The NBA has been fantastic and entertaining for the past few seasons, yet this is a common complaint by people.

I'm a humongous sports fan with sports-oriented friends here in Cincinnati and in my former home of Colorado/Wyoming, where I lived for much of the last six years. I go to sports bars all the time to watch baseball, football and hockey; I go to Reds, Bengals, Flyers and Buckeyes games; and I love to talk sports at work or just about anywhere.

That being said, I can honestly say that I know zero people who follow or even remotely like the NBA. Not a single person, despite having lived in the Denver area when the Nuggets made the conference finals and having one whole side of my family that lives in Cleveland. Aside from making fun of Lebron James, I can't even tell you the last time I talked to anyone about something that happened in the NBA. It's totally off the radar of so many otherwise great sports fans.

Maybe that's a product of living in the middle of such a college basketball hotbed (UC, X, UK, OSU, UD, IU, WVU, Butler, Louisville, Purdue, etc), but really I didn't know anyone in the Denver area that cared what the Nuggets did. Denver's sports hierarchy is 1. Broncos 2. Rockies 3. Avs 4. Nuggets. (The Broncos are a landslide No. 1, the Rox and Avs are interchangeable at 2 and 3, depending on who's better at the moment, and the Nuggets are solidly fourth).

BRM
10-26-2011, 03:11 PM
Maybe that's a product of living in the middle of such a college basketball hotbed (UC, X, UK, OSU, UD, IU, WVU, Butler, Louisville, Purdue, etc), but really I didn't know anyone in the Denver area that cared what the Nuggets did. Denver's sports hierarchy is 1. Broncos 2. Rockies 3. Avs 4. Nuggets. (The Broncos are a landslide No. 1, the Rox and Avs are interchangeable at 2 and 3, depending on who's better at the moment, and the Nuggets are solidly fourth).

It hasn't changed. I don't hear anything on the radio or see anything on TV about the lockout (other than on ESPN). Hardly anyone here in Colorado is talking about it. Of course, I don't live in Denver so the talk could be rampant up there but I highly doubt it.

This area isn't a big basketball territory anyway so it's probably not a fair region to compare. College hoops doesn't generate much discussion either.

texasdave
10-28-2011, 09:15 PM
"It's not practical, possible or prudent to have a full season now," said Stern, who previously canceled the first two weeks of the season.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/nba/10/28/nba.labor.ap/index.html#ixzz1c7ofLRrK

Partial season at best now. Houston has a team but there doesn't seem to be much of an outcry down here over this latest announcement. I hope they get it settled soon. I am in a decided minority.

Chip R
10-29-2011, 01:22 PM
Stern's full of crap. Why can't they extend the season a month or so? They play inside so that weather won't be an issue.

Brutus
10-29-2011, 02:53 PM
Stern's full of crap. Why can't they extend the season a month or so? They play inside so that weather won't be an issue.

They already play into June as it is... extending the season into July probably would have a very ugly impact on ratings. It's hard enough to grab ratings in the summer, but pushing it even further into the summer would be difficult.

Chip R
10-29-2011, 07:54 PM
They already play into June as it is... extending the season into July probably would have a very ugly impact on ratings. It's hard enough to grab ratings in the summer, but pushing it even further into the summer would be difficult.

So what? All there is in the summer is baseball.

Danny Serafini
10-30-2011, 01:27 PM
Basketball at the Olympics starts at the end of July. The players will want some sort of break before that.

improbus
10-30-2011, 10:51 PM
I think the underlying reason for this is fallout from the shenanigans pulled by Lebron James, Chris Bosh and Dwayne Wade. Small market teams benefit from an NFL-style system not just from keeping a ceiling on salaries, but also by prevent top talent from gravitating toward large markets. Success in the NFL is determined more by football acumen than by market-size. Green Bay and Indy wouldn't have teams, let alone successful ones, if the NFL was like the NBA or MLB. But because the NFL system keeps talent spread across markets, small markets can thrive and be profitable.
The LeBron move has been happening for years. Shaq did it in the 90's and Kareem did it in the 70's. Moving from a small market to large market is nothing new in basketball (or any other sport for that matter).

It is unfair to compare the NFL and NBA's revenue system because they are very different. The NFL makes all of its money from TV, which they are able to run from the top because they play so many games at TV friendly times. The NBA (and MLB for that matter) have relatively small national TV deals, but they have larger local cable deals. This probably won't change because the big networks aren't going to want to pay for the rights to a Tuesday night Bucks vs. Raptors game. So, revenue sharing is not really possible on the NFL's scale.

BTW, does anyone else find it ironic in an era of attacking big federal government and federal welfare that the NFL, our most nation's most socialist organization, is also its shining model of prosperity? We really are an interesting and bizarre country.

Yachtzee
10-31-2011, 02:33 AM
The LeBron move has been happening for years. Shaq did it in the 90's and Kareem did it in the 70's. Moving from a small market to large market is nothing new in basketball (or any other sport for that matter).

It is unfair to compare the NFL and NBA's revenue system because they are very different. The NFL makes all of its money from TV, which they are able to run from the top because they play so many games at TV friendly times. The NBA (and MLB for that matter) have relatively small national TV deals, but they have larger local cable deals. This probably won't change because the big networks aren't going to want to pay for the rights to a Tuesday night Bucks vs. Raptors game. So, revenue sharing is not really possible on the NFL's scale.

BTW, does anyone else find it ironic in an era of attacking big federal government and federal welfare that the NFL, our most nation's most socialist organization, is also its shining model of prosperity? We really are an interesting and bizarre country.

It's not a socialist organization. Let's just stop throwing the word "socialist" out there in a context where it has absolutely no connection. Socialism is purely political in nature and has no real application in a purely business-oriented industry. For the NFL to be socialist, it would have to be a government-run enterprise with management either elected by the populace or appointed by the political regime.

If you want a word that more closely fits the description of the NFL, and other professional sports leagues for that matter, is a cartel. It is a group of like-minded businessmen who individually own businesses in a particular industry who agree to work together for their mutual benefit in order to ensure a stable market for their product. Every sports league is the same. They have rules that limit who may enter the league and where they may place their reams. They set a joint schedule for competition and decide the rules that govern the competition the field. They limit how, when and where teams can solicit players to play for their teams. In fact, sports teams are not even considered independent businesses, but rather "franchises" granted by the league, subject to approval by other owners. It's similar to the way industries like oil, gas, and railroads were run before the passage of the Sherman Anti-Trust act and it is the reason why sports leagues have limited anti-trust exemptions necessary to conduct business.

If you look at leagues as cartels, the spectrum you judge leagues by would be strong v. weak cartel. And one end you would have a strong cartel with a high-degree of cooperation between owners. The other end of the spectrum would be an open market structure, where anyone with enough cash and a place to do business could start up a team, solicit players from anywhere, including players already under contract from other teams, and could set their own schedules based on who they think would bring in the most cash. This style of business environment would likely result in players jumping teams on a regular basis and owners being able to start an new team or move an existing team into any geographic market they saw fit. In fact, this open-market style sports league would probably best describe MLB under the National Association era and earlier, before the advent of the National League in 1876, or pro football before 1921 when a group of like-minded owners got together in Canton, OH to from what would become the NFL.

Because we look at sports as "competition" between teams, it's easy to lose site of the fact that no professional sports franchise truly in competition with the other franchises its league, but rather, each league is in competition with other forms of entertainment for the discretionary income of potential customers.

A socialist sports league would be something akin to the professional sports leagues of the Soviet Union, where teams were underwritten by trade unions and branches of the government rather than wealthy businessmen.

texasdave
11-14-2011, 04:08 PM
The rubber is meeting the road.


The NBA players rejected the league's latest offer Monday and have begun the process to disband the union.The decision likely jeopardizes the season.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/nba/11/14/nba.labor.ap/index.html#ixzz1diDef7GJ

HotCorner
11-14-2011, 05:00 PM
Well at least the last imagine from the NBA is still this ... :D

http://www.newsinus.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Congratulations-Dallas-Mavericks-NBA-Champions-500x249.jpg

Roy Tucker
11-15-2011, 01:03 PM
Pretty good column on how equally guilty the owners and the players are and how they will collectively regret getting to this point some day. I know it sums up my feelings. The NFL and MLB may be viewed as essential, but if the NBA thinks they also are, they are very sorely mistaken. The sports world will hardly skip a beat.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ian_thomsen/11/14/nba.players.disband/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a6&eref=sihp



For the NBA owners and players to shut down their league during the worst economic times in more than 60 years has got to be the dumbest thing they could imagine doing. At a time when so many businesses are fighting for every last dollar, the NBA players and owners are giving back money to their season-ticket holders -- their die-hard fans -- and saying we don't want it. Put that money back in your pockets for now, and when we decide to start playing again, think about whether we are worthy of your investment.

texasdave
11-18-2011, 07:44 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/NBA-lockout-fans-not-missing-sport-yet-thanks-to-NFL-College-football-NASCAR-UFC-111711

Sadly, there is a lot of truth to this. I hardly hear anyone bemoaning the lack of NBA games.

jmac
11-19-2011, 08:55 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/NBA-lockout-fans-not-missing-sport-yet-thanks-to-NFL-College-football-NASCAR-UFC-111711

Sadly, there is a lot of truth to this. I hardly hear anyone bemoaning the lack of NBA games.

Article nails it !

texasdave
11-26-2011, 07:25 AM
NBA owners and players reached a tentative agreement early Saturday to end the 149-day lockout and hope to begin the delayed season on Christmas Day

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/nba/11/26/nba.lockout.ap/index.html#ixzz1eoGIRnua

That wasn't so hard, now was it?

Brutus
11-26-2011, 08:32 AM
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/nba/11/26/nba.lockout.ap/index.html#ixzz1eoGIRnua

That wasn't so hard, now was it?

What amuses me is that the players were trying to gain leverage by decertifying, yet they reportedly wind up with the same 50-50 deal in this agreement that the owners were willing to agree to a month ago. Seems the owners got what they wanted lol

George Foster
11-26-2011, 12:31 PM
If the players do not want to agree to a 50%-50% split...the heck with them. They do not own the team, they did not risk their money to buy and operate an NBA team. I think a 50%-50% split is crazy if you are an owner, but it beats the last agreement. The owners will survive with or without the NBA...what will the players do? What other jobs skills to they have?:lol:

Most over seas leagues have rules that limit the number of americans to 2 on each team...so 98% of them can't play over seas.

The players need to realize they are living a charmed life and take the money offered and run! Before the NBA as we know it does not exist anymore, which is a real possibility. I could see 6-8 teams go belly-up.

IslandRed
11-27-2011, 01:20 AM
The owners will survive with or without the NBA...what will the players do? What other jobs skills to they have? :lol:

True enough. But let's be fair, the league couldn't exist without a demand for the product (admittedly, the demand exists at a lesser level than for the NFL and MLB) and the players are the product. If the current batch of NBA owners didn't provide it, someone else would. In the big picture, an individual owner is just as disposable as a player. If one leaves, someone else will buy the team; if they fold the league, someone will start a new league as long as people still want to watch the world's best players play.

Of course, the real risk of the NBA lockout was that NBA fans would get used to living without it.

nmculbreth
11-27-2011, 04:10 PM
If the players do not want to agree to a 50%-50% split...the heck with them. They do not own the team, they did not risk their money to buy and operate an NBA team. I think a 50%-50% split is crazy if you are an owner, but it beats the last agreement. The owners will survive with or without the NBA...what will the players do? What other jobs skills to they have?:lol:

Most over seas leagues have rules that limit the number of americans to 2 on each team...so 98% of them can't play over seas.

The players need to realize they are living a charmed life and take the money offered and run! Before the NBA as we know it does not exist anymore, which is a real possibility. I could see 6-8 teams go belly-up.

I don't buy this argument.

First and foremost, exactly how much risk is their in owning an NBA franchise? With the exception of the past few years the value of NBA franchises has steadily increased and even at the height of the post-recession malaise the Golden State Warriors were sold for a record price of $450mil.

Were there some problems with the old CBA? Absolutely. That I think there is something fundamentally wrong with the argument that every NBA owner should expect to make a profit, regardless of how they run their franchise. If you're going to overpay for the franchise with borrowed money, sign mid-level players to awful contracts and do a bad job of promoting your product you should lose money.

texasdave
11-30-2011, 08:58 PM
How does that 'Amnesty" work? A team can simply drop a bad contract? Does that mean it no longer counts against their team payroll or does it mean they don't have to pay it off? Aren't those legally binding contracts?

Todd Gack
11-30-2011, 10:51 PM
NBA fans, tell me why you love watching the NBA.

Razor Shines
12-01-2011, 02:19 AM
NBA fans, tell me why you love watching the NBA.

Well if you like basketball, NBA players are the best in the world. If you enjoy watching something why wouldnt you want to watch the best?


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Danny Serafini
12-01-2011, 10:38 AM
How does that 'Amnesty" work? A team can simply drop a bad contract? Does that mean it no longer counts against their team payroll or does it mean they don't have to pay it off? Aren't those legally binding contracts?

They have to pay the actual money, but the salary cap hit is gone.

reds1869
12-01-2011, 11:28 AM
Well if you like basketball, NBA players are the best in the world. If you enjoy watching something why wouldnt you want to watch the best?

I agree that they are the best in the world but the "NBA brand" of basketball doesn't do it for me.

texasdave
12-01-2011, 12:30 PM
They have to pay the actual money, but the salary cap hit is gone.

So the end result could be that the richer clubs who are over the cap could use this amnesty clause to get under the cap and then sign another stud free agent?

nmculbreth
12-01-2011, 01:18 PM
NBA fans, tell me why you love watching the NBA.

Because it's basketball at its highest level.

While I have appreciation for the pageantry of college basketball, the quality of play in the NBA is light years ahead of what you see on the college level. The players are more athletic and far more skilled, which makes for a far more entertaining brand of basketball. There are some dog games, but you can't beat watching great teams / players go up against each other.

reds1869
12-01-2011, 01:20 PM
Because it's basketball at its highest level.

While I have appreciation for the pageantry of college basketball, the quality of play in the NBA is light years ahead of what you see on the college level. The players are more athletic and far more skilled, which makes for a far more entertaining brand of basketball. There are some dog games, but you can't beat watching great teams / players go up against each other.

I actually fall on the other side of that line. For me the mismatches and David/Goliath scenarios make college ball much more interesting. The evenly matched play of the NBA is like a game of tic-tac-toe between Einstein and Hawking.

BuckeyeRed27
12-01-2011, 01:24 PM
So the end result could be that the richer clubs who are over the cap could use this amnesty clause to get under the cap and then sign another stud free agent?

Here is my understanding of how it works.

You can use it once and the player that you drop goes into a waiver type draft where teams can bid on how much they want to pay him. So if Player X is making $12M a team could bid $3M for him and if they are the high bid they pay him that and the other team pays him the remaining contract value, but it doesn't count against their cap.

In theory yes a team can drop a player and use it to sign another free agent, but you can only use this one time.

texasdave
12-01-2011, 01:59 PM
Here is my understanding of how it works.

You can use it once and the player that you drop goes into a waiver type draft where teams can bid on how much they want to pay him. So if Player X is making $12M a team could bid $3M for him and if they are the high bid they pay him that and the other team pays him the remaining contract value, but it doesn't count against their cap.

In theory yes a team can drop a player and use it to sign another free agent, but you can only use this one time.

Thanks.

Ohayou
12-08-2011, 07:49 PM
Sources say Chris Paul deal to the Lakers is 'done'. Odom, Scola, and Martin going to New Orleans and Gasol to the Rockets.

BuckeyeRed27
12-08-2011, 08:03 PM
Well the inevitable Paul, Kobe, Howard vs. Wade, Lebron, Bosh NBA Finals does create some interesting match up issues.

nmculbreth
12-08-2011, 08:42 PM
Well the inevitable Paul, Kobe, Howard vs. Wade, Lebron, Bosh NBA Finals does create some interesting match up issues.

I don't see how the Lakers have enough to get Howard after giving up Gasol and Odom in the deal to get Chris Paul and it's hard to believe that Howard is going to be willing to leave a ton of money on the table to sign with the Lakers as a free agent.

This is a huge roll of the dice for the Lakers. Obviously Chris Paul is a huge upgrade over Derek Fisher but at the same time I think going after Dwight Howard would have been the smarter play. Between the injury histories of Paul and Bynum and Kobe Bryant getting older I think this deal has the potential to blow up in the Lakers' face.

15fan
12-08-2011, 08:55 PM
Sources say Chris Paul deal to the Lakers is 'done'. Odom, Scola, and Martin going to New Orleans and Gasol to the Rockets.

CP3 a Laker?

:barf:

Ohayou
12-08-2011, 09:19 PM
There's been plenty of speculation that this deal was only done because they have a deal for Howard in place, but I don't know what incentive the Magic have now to deal Howard to the Lakers.

Ohayou
12-08-2011, 10:30 PM
...and Stern kills the deal! :thumbup:

cincy jacket
12-08-2011, 10:31 PM
It looks like the NBA owners have been complaining to Stern and the League will block the completion of the trade. This could get interesting.

texasdave
12-08-2011, 10:39 PM
As a fan of the Rockets all I can say is thanks for killing it, Mr. Stern.

Stray
12-08-2011, 10:51 PM
Wow couldn't this have been voted on before announcing it to the world? I understand the NBA owns the Hornets so technically all owners have a stake in the team...why not put the deal up for a vote before saying yes?

Now you have Chris Paul being tossed back and forth, Odom and Gasol back on a team that just traded them, and who knows what else. This kinda thing has to be avoidable.

texasdave
12-08-2011, 11:17 PM
Sounds like a bunch of whiny NBA owners to me.


Here is the proposed trade:


Earlier Thursday, the Hornets had agreed in principle to trade Paul to the Lakers for Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom. The Rockets, the third team in the trade, would have acquired Gasol from New Orleans and dealt shooting guard Kevin Martin, power forward Luis Scola, point guard Goran Dragic and possibly a first-round pick to the Hornets.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/12/08/chris.paul.trade/index.html#ixzz1g0Ic8ZsX

If I am reading this correctly, New Orleans obtains Lamar Odom, Luis Scola, Kevin Martin, Goran Dragic and a possible first-round pick for Paul. And Paul is a free agent after this year. Is that an unfair deal?

cincrazy
12-08-2011, 11:29 PM
As a fan of the Rockets all I can say is thanks for killing it, Mr. Stern.

From the Rockets point of view, that trade was HORRIBLE. I don't even know that Gasol is better than Scola at this point in their careers. The Grizzlies gave it a run with Pau as their best player. And it didn't work out. Not sure why Morey would think he could have any better luck with it several years after the fact.

nmculbreth
12-08-2011, 11:29 PM
Sounds like a bunch of whiny NBA owners to me.


Here is the proposed trade:



Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/12/08/chris.paul.trade/index.html#ixzz1g0Ic8ZsX

If I am reading this correctly, New Orleans obtains Lamar Odom, Luis Scola, Kevin Martin, Goran Dragic and a possible first-round pick for Paul.
Is that an unfair deal?

It's hard to say without knowing what else was being offered but it isn't like the Hornets are dealing from a position of strength, so getting Odom and Gasol looks like a pretty solid return to me. I'm not sure that I'd have turned around and flipped Gasol for Martin, Scola, Dragic and a first round pick but I think it's hard to argue that the Lakers weren't giving fair value.

I mean on one hand I can see why the NBA wouldn't want to deal away the club's best asset before trying to sell the team but at the same time how much value does the franchise lose when Paul walks and they get a couple of late first rounders from a sign and trade deal or possibly nothing at all?

fearofpopvol1
12-09-2011, 12:52 AM
In fairness, LeBron, Wade and Bosh colluding to play with each other was heavily investigated.

bucksfan2
12-09-2011, 09:20 AM
It's hard to say without knowing what else was being offered but it isn't like the Hornets are dealing from a position of strength, so getting Odom and Gasol looks like a pretty solid return to me. I'm not sure that I'd have turned around and flipped Gasol for Martin, Scola, Dragic and a first round pick but I think it's hard to argue that the Lakers weren't giving fair value.

I mean on one hand I can see why the NBA wouldn't want to deal away the club's best asset before trying to sell the team but at the same time how much value does the franchise lose when Paul walks and they get a couple of late first rounders from a sign and trade deal or possibly nothing at all?

I think its more of the star players demanding to go to a few teams. I heard an email read on the radio this morning from Dan Gilbert to the commish. He was complaining about the trade but also made a very important point. He said something to the extent why don't we just have 5 power teams and 25 Washington Generals. The way things are headed in the NBA you will have power teams in LA, NY, Boston, Miami, and Chicago. As of now the only promising team not located in a geographic population center is Oklahoma City. For the betterment of the league and all 30 owners they better hope the NBA doesn't continue to spiral down this path.

Ohayou
12-09-2011, 11:08 AM
Brandon Roy expected to retire. :(

Mario-Rijo
12-09-2011, 11:13 AM
Brandon Roy expected to retire. :(

Dang, what a shame that kid had real game.

Stray
12-09-2011, 11:25 AM
Brandon Roy expected to retire. :(

That's too bad, he was one of my favorites. The guy could have been great if he had better knees. One of the most clutch shooters I've ever seen...

cincrazy
12-09-2011, 02:23 PM
I think its more of the star players demanding to go to a few teams. I heard an email read on the radio this morning from Dan Gilbert to the commish. He was complaining about the trade but also made a very important point. He said something to the extent why don't we just have 5 power teams and 25 Washington Generals. The way things are headed in the NBA you will have power teams in LA, NY, Boston, Miami, and Chicago. As of now the only promising team not located in a geographic population center is Oklahoma City. For the betterment of the league and all 30 owners they better hope the NBA doesn't continue to spiral down this path.

Dan Gilbert can complain all he want. The fact of the matter is, he had a once in a generation player, playing in his hometown, and wasn't able to put the pieces around him to convince him to stay. Larry Hughes? Mo Williams? Give me a break. The Cavs created their own mess. They were a poorly run franchise for several years. True, Gilbert showed up late to the show. But he pampered and showered LeBron with every need. He enabled him. And he put a poor product around him.

If Gilbert doesn't like the situation, he should get out of the league.

BuckeyeRed27
12-09-2011, 03:43 PM
Dan Gilbert can complain all he want. The fact of the matter is, he had a once in a generation player, playing in his hometown, and wasn't able to put the pieces around him to convince him to stay. Larry Hughes? Mo Williams? Give me a break. The Cavs created their own mess. They were a poorly run franchise for several years. True, Gilbert showed up late to the show. But he pampered and showered LeBron with every need. He enabled him. And he put a poor product around him.

If Gilbert doesn't like the situation, he should get out of the league.

This isn't Dan Gilbert's fault. The NBA put themselves in this stupid situation. Both sides are right. The trade was fine, but to the league owning the team it isn't a good trade. I'm glad Stern looks like an idiot right now because this is 100% his fault.

nmculbreth
12-09-2011, 06:49 PM
I think its more of the star players demanding to go to a few teams. I heard an email read on the radio this morning from Dan Gilbert to the commish. He was complaining about the trade but also made a very important point. He said something to the extent why don't we just have 5 power teams and 25 Washington Generals. The way things are headed in the NBA you will have power teams in LA, NY, Boston, Miami, and Chicago. As of now the only promising team not located in a geographic population center is Oklahoma City. For the betterment of the league and all 30 owners they better hope the NBA doesn't continue to spiral down this path.

This is strawman argument and Stern looks like a buffoon for going along with it.

While I'm not a huge can of there being a handful of "super" teams and a bunch of also-ran teams, the veto of this deal does nothing to change the way that the landscape of the NBA is evolving.

Chris Paul isn't re-signing with New Orleans and no amount of hand wringing is going to change that fact. Instead of allowing Dell Demps to deal Chris Paul and getting the best return possible, these petulant owners have created a situation where Paul is going to still end up on a "super" team and New Orleans is going to get nothing in return.

The fact that Stern was willing to go along for the ride shows that he's completely out to lunch.

texasdave
12-09-2011, 07:32 PM
If this league is really headed in the direction of a handful of super teams and everyone else competing for the right to get blown out in the first round of the playoffs, then color me an ex-NBA fan.

texasdave
12-09-2011, 07:35 PM
The Lakers, Hornets and Rockets have re-engaged and are exploring possible ways of completing a proposed three-way deal involving Chris Paul, multiple sources connected to the deal told SI.com.


Before the sides re-opened discussions, one source close to the process was told the deal was simply put "on hold," as opposed to completely dead.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/nba/12/09/chris.paul/index.html#ixzz1g5F3Rltf

That is one way to spin things. We just put the trade 'on hold'.


In the case of the trade proposal that was made to the Hornets for Chris Paul, we decided, free from the influence of other NBA owners, that the team was better served with Chris in a Hornets uniform than by the outcome of the terms of that trade."

And I always wanted a longer nose, said Commissioner Stern.

texasdave
12-09-2011, 09:17 PM
From the Houston Chronicle: Liar. Liar. Pants on fire. What else is new?


They also have to bring back three players they just traded. Kevin Martin and Luis Scola could not have been more gracious (though until the Rockets have a center, the team could be as on edge as in the days before the trade deadline.) But Chris Paul and Lamar Odom are furious. Rockets general manager Daryl Morey and the Lakers’ Mitch Kupchak spent countless hours hammering out the deal, as they and GMs around the league had been given the clear understanding that Demps was fully authorized to do his job with the only stipulation that he not exceed the luxury tax line.

They were also never told that they had to make a deal that would appeal not only to the teams involved, but to the commissioner.While Stern is in no way qualified to judge the quality of players or trades, he ought to be able to do better than this as commissioner. Instead, he hammered the league’s credibility, actually living up to the sort of doubts that drive the conspiracy theorists.One can assume that Leslie Alexander and Jim Buss have been calling Stern and hitting him as hard as he smashed their trade. But they are badly outnumbered. And as wrongfully as they must feel that their employee mistreated their teams, he did not do anywhere near the damage as to the team the NBA owns. At least he made the league’s other owners look better by comparison.

cincrazy
12-10-2011, 01:06 AM
This isn't Dan Gilbert's fault. The NBA put themselves in this stupid situation. Both sides are right. The trade was fine, but to the league owning the team it isn't a good trade. I'm glad Stern looks like an idiot right now because this is 100% his fault.

The NBA is what it is. And it's why it's my third favorite sports league. It's ALWAYS been this way. MJ was in Chicago, Kareem forced his way to LA, Bird was in Boston. Gilbert should've known what he was getting into when he bought the club. It's a risk you take in owning a professional sports team. The Cavs got lucky when they landed LeBron, and couldn't take advantage of that luck. They've been a poorly run franchise for years, and it doesn't look like that's changed any.

texasdave
12-10-2011, 02:30 PM
CP3 trade resubmitted to the Commissioner's office. No details on the particulars. This per ESPN.

Chip R
12-12-2011, 11:42 AM
It looks now that CP3 might be going to LA after all. But it's the Clipers, not the Lakers that he would be traded to.

I sure didn't like to see him going to the Lakers but the NBA really put themselves in a huge conflict of interest when they did this.

reds1869
12-12-2011, 12:02 PM
Stern looks really bad in the CP3 situation. Why do commissioners feel the need to play dictator so often?

Chip R
12-12-2011, 01:00 PM
Stern looks really bad in the CP3 situation. Why do commissioners feel the need to play dictator so often?

Because they can.

WVRed
12-14-2011, 08:18 PM
CP3 to the Clips

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/7353870/sources-los-angeles-new-orleans-hornets-agree-chris-paul-trade

Clips gave up a LOT in this deal. To think Eric Bledsoe(CP3lite) might have been the difference in this trade getting done or not.

With the TWolves unprotected pick next year, the Hornets look to be players in the Anthony Davis sweepstakes.

BuckeyeRed27
12-14-2011, 08:38 PM
CP3 to the Clips

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/7353870/sources-los-angeles-new-orleans-hornets-agree-chris-paul-trade

Clips gave up a LOT in this deal. To think Eric Bledsoe(CP3lite) might have been the difference in this trade getting done or not.

With the TWolves unprotected pick next year, the Hornets look to be players in the Anthony Davis sweepstakes.

As a kinda sorta Clippers follower, I don't really love this trade. Eric Gordon is a stud. Obviously Paul is a great player, but I think eventually the Hornets would have caved on the trade with Bledsoe and maybe another pick and the Clips could have kept Gordon. A line up of Paul, Gordon, Griffin, Jordan I guess Billups is really solid.

texasdave
12-14-2011, 09:17 PM
Clippers don't make that trade unless they are certain they can sign him to an extension, right? Otherwise....

BuckeyeRed27
12-14-2011, 10:39 PM
Clippers don't make that trade unless they are certain they can sign him to an extension, right? Otherwise....

They have him for at least two seasons and can also sign a big free agent next off season, like Dwight Howard.

nmculbreth
12-15-2011, 01:21 AM
It looks like the CP3 saga is finally coming to an end.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/7353870/sources-los-angeles-new-orleans-hornets-agree-chris-paul-trade

I like this deal a lot for both sides. I'm still not convinced that the original three way deal wasn't a better immediate return but in the long run they probably were able to get more talent back in this deal, particularly if the Timberwolves unprotected pick ends up being a top five pick. I'm not sure Eric Gordon ever becomes an elite player, but he should be very good for them for a long time.

I think this move takes the Clippers to the upper echelon of the western conference and IMHO makes them the best team in LA. They gave up a lot but at the same time they're getting two years of Chris Paul and by making the deal (and keeping Jordan) they've positioned themselves beautifully to be able to re-sign both Paul and Blake Griffin once their deals are up. Losing Gordon hurts, but holding onto Eric Bledsoe was a real coup.

Ohayou
12-15-2011, 02:33 AM
I think this move takes the Clippers to the upper echelon of the western conference and IMHO makes them the best team in LA.

They've been trying some thirty years to do that - and it hasn't happened yet. I think you should hold on for a while...

BuckeyeRed27
12-15-2011, 01:00 PM
They've been trying some thirty years to do that - and it hasn't happened yet. I think you should hold on for a while...

It will be interesting to see what the Lakers do in the next couple weeks though. On paper the Clippers do have the better team and I just can't see the Lakers sitting around with what they currently have.

cincrazy
12-15-2011, 10:26 PM
They've been trying some thirty years to do that - and it hasn't happened yet. I think you should hold on for a while...

In the history of their franchise, they've never had ONE player as good as either Paul or Griffin. History means nothing as it pertains to this current team. They're legit.

Ohayou
12-15-2011, 11:25 PM
In the history of their franchise, they've never had ONE player as good as either Paul or Griffin.

Before they became the Clippers, there was Bob McAdoo.


History means nothing as it pertains to this current team. They're legit.

I never said they weren't, just that the Lakers are still the better team.

reds1869
12-16-2011, 09:03 AM
I was really impressed with cp3 at the Clippers press conference last night. Just an impressive, polished person. I can't wait to see him feed the ball to Blake.

bucksfan2
12-16-2011, 09:52 AM
It will be interesting to see what the Lakers do in the next couple weeks though. On paper the Clippers do have the better team and I just can't see the Lakers sitting around with what they currently have.

I was watching PTI at the gym last night. They were talking about the trade and I know Wilbon follows the NBA pretty closely but his comments were reason number one why I don't follow the NBA. Wilbon pretty much said that since the Lakers trade was voided by the NBA, the NBA needed to throw them a bone. They needed to force a trade in which Dwight Howard went to the Lakers. He also said that the NBA needed to make sure that the Celtics and Lakers were relevant. Basically he was encouraging what a lot of NBA detractors blame the NBA of doing.

To me in a perfect world the best run organization should be rewarded with the best team. It doesn't seem like the NBA really cares about anyone but their large market cities. Sad if you ask me.

Scrap Irony
12-16-2011, 11:43 AM
The Lakers and the Celtics are the two most popular franchises in the NBA. That's why they "need" to be relevant.

IMO, Steve Nash might be an interesting name to throw out there. He's getting older, doesn't have a ring, and the Suns have absolutely nothing else. Might the Lakers be willing to give up Shannon Brown and a ton of draft picks to get Nash?

Captain Hook
12-16-2011, 12:25 PM
The Lakers and the Celtics are the two most popular franchises in the NBA. That's why they "need" to be relevant.

IMO, Steve Nash might be an interesting name to throw out there. He's getting older, doesn't have a ring, and the Suns have absolutely nothing else. Might the Lakers be willing to give up Shannon Brown and a ton of draft picks to get Nash?

The Suns signed Brown as a free agent so that deal won't be happening.

The Lakers still have 3 guys that most people would agree are in the top 5 of the league for their position.They aren't goin to be the favorite to win the championship but they're still the best team in L.A. and they'll still contend for a title.

Chip R
12-16-2011, 04:05 PM
I was watching PTI at the gym last night. They were talking about the trade and I know Wilbon follows the NBA pretty closely but his comments were reason number one why I don't follow the NBA. Wilbon pretty much said that since the Lakers trade was voided by the NBA, the NBA needed to throw them a bone. They needed to force a trade in which Dwight Howard went to the Lakers. He also said that the NBA needed to make sure that the Celtics and Lakers were relevant. Basically he was encouraging what a lot of NBA detractors blame the NBA of doing.

To me in a perfect world the best run organization should be rewarded with the best team. It doesn't seem like the NBA really cares about anyone but their large market cities. Sad if you ask me.

One thing you should remember is that the players are the ones that are the impetus behind the trades. Howard and Paul have one year left on their deals and they have a say in where they want to go. There are only so many suitors for these players because of the salary cap and the available talent on the team trading for one of these guys. If the Lakers want Howard they are going to have to give up Bynum and/or Gasol. They would have Howard and Kobe and after that, not much else.

Chris Paul wasn't going to CLE or MIN or DET or IND. They either weren't attractive enough to him or didn't have the available talent to make a trade or they had salary cap problems.

I'm sure the NBA does care about the big markets but you also have to remember that BOS really stunk before Garnett and Allen came aboard. If the NBA was really that interested in making BOS relevant, don't you think they would have done that before Garnett and Allen were traded over there? And don't you think the Knicks would have been better than what they have been for the last 15 years considering Stern is a Knicks fan?

Scrap Irony
12-16-2011, 05:07 PM
The Lakers still have 3 guys that most people would agree are in the top 5 of the league for their position.

Huh?

I get Kobe-- he's probably the best in the game.

Who else?

Gasol? Maybe. If what he did down the stretch isn't a precursor to Father Time getting close. I'd probably put him seventh, behind Nowitski, Griffin, Stoudemire, Randolph, Love, and Garnett, but some people may disagree.

Who else?

Certainly not Bynum. Howard, Bogut, Noah, Horford, Chandler, Brook Lopez, Al Jefferson-- all are better. Bynum, because of his major injury history, his lack of success in the playoffs, and his questionable heart, ranks in the third tier with such guys as JaVail McGee, Demarcus Cousins, Nene, and Marc Gasol.

Captain Hook
12-17-2011, 02:28 AM
Huh?
Certainly not Bynum. Howard, Bogut, Noah, Horford, Chandler, Brook Lopez, Al Jefferson-- all are better. Bynum, because of his major injury history, his lack of success in the playoffs, and his questionable heart, ranks in the third tier with such guys as JaVail McGee, Demarcus Cousins, Nene, and Marc Gasol.

Mort rankings for the center position I've found has Bynum ranked somewhere between 5th-8th best so there are plenty of people that would say he is a top 5 and most would agree that he's close.I would put him in there since he's played on a team that has asked less from him considering the talent Bynum is surrounded by.Plus I'm a Laker fan!!!

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Ranking-the-centers-11-through-1?urn=nba-265548

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-top-10-nba-centers,0,7903805.storygallery

Revering4Blue
12-17-2011, 11:04 AM
In the history of their franchise, they've never had ONE player as good as either Paul or Griffin. History means nothing as it pertains to this current team. They're legit.

Lloyd "World B." Free from '78-'80 and Terry Cummings from '82-'84 were every bit as good, if not better than Paul or Griffin. As previously stated, Bob McAdoo, from the Buffalo Braves days, remains the best player in franchise history...for now.

So long as Donald Sterling owns the Clippers, history means everything as it pertains to this current team.

As for the Paul trade, IMHO, the Hornets made out like bandits....three starters and what most certainly will be a high lottery pick. Well worth the price for Dwight Howard or LeBron James, but for Paul? That remains to be seen.

texasdave
12-17-2011, 11:13 AM
I might be tempted to throw Elton Brand's name into the mix. He seemed to always kill the
Rockets.

improbus
12-18-2011, 09:08 AM
Huh?

I get Kobe-- he's probably the best in the game.

Who else?

Gasol? Maybe. If what he did down the stretch isn't a precursor to Father Time getting close. I'd probably put him seventh, behind Nowitski, Griffin, Stoudemire, Randolph, Love, and Garnett, but some people may disagree.

Who else?

Certainly not Bynum. Howard, Bogut, Noah, Horford, Chandler, Brook Lopez, Al Jefferson-- all are better. Bynum, because of his major injury history, his lack of success in the playoffs, and his questionable heart, ranks in the third tier with such guys as JaVail McGee, Demarcus Cousins, Nene, and Marc Gasol.

Don't underestimate Gasol. He is on of the leagues best offensive rebounder (no one goes over the back better without getting offensive fouls...) Also, he is younger than Garnett and Nowitzki and the same age as Randolph. On your list, I would only take Nowitzki and possibly Griffin (for age only) over Gasol. He is a better defender than Stoudemire, Love, and Randolph, and is a better offensive player than Love, Garnett, and Griffin. Gasol is definitely a top 5 if not top 3 player at his position.

jmac
12-20-2011, 12:06 AM
Gotta say the 1st quarter of the LA-LAC game is one of the most entertaining preseason games I have ever seen.A Little sloppy but lots of high profile plays.

cincrazy
12-20-2011, 01:06 AM
Lloyd "World B." Free from '78-'80 and Terry Cummings from '82-'84 were every bit as good, if not better than Paul or Griffin. As previously stated, Bob McAdoo, from the Buffalo Braves days, remains the best player in franchise history...for now.

So long as Donald Sterling owns the Clippers, history means everything as it pertains to this current team.

As for the Paul trade, IMHO, the Hornets made out like bandits....three starters and what most certainly will be a high lottery pick. Well worth the price for Dwight Howard or LeBron James, but for Paul? That remains to be seen.

I won't include McAdoo in this discussion, although it's a good point to make. But I'm only considering players that played for the Clippers franchise in LA. With all due respect to World B. Free and Terry Cummings, those guys can't touch Paul and Griffin as impact players in the NBA.

Razor Shines
12-20-2011, 04:11 AM
Lakers Rescind Contract Offer to Josh McRoberts

AP - Los Angeles It is a little known fact that Kobe Bryant has a clause in his contract that demands the Lakers always have on the roster a 6’10”-6’11”, left handed, slim, Point-Forward type player. This demand has long been filled by the presence of Lamar Odom. After his demand and subsequent trade the Lakers were left looking for a quick fix. That fix came in the form of Josh McRoberts, or so they thought. The Lakers signed McRoberts to a 2 year $6M deal. GM Mitch Kupchak said “Look Josh met all the requirements…well the ones we knew of.” And it is precisely what they did not know that sent the Lakers star into a fury. Bryant had been informed Sunday night that Odom’s replacement had been found and therefore the clause in his contract fulfilled. After meeting McRoberts this morning Bryant reportedly stormed out of the complex shouting “A WHITE ONE!? WHY WOULD I WANT A WHITE ONE!?” Unofficially Bryant is in a holdout. McRoberts was released because as Kupchak stated “Why would we pay him that much money if we absolutely didn’t have to?” When asked if he knew how important race was to Kobe, McRoberts stated “Thinking back now I realize I have heard a few guys say that ‘Kobe is a racist’ but at the time I thought they were saying ‘rapist’.” In the meantime the Lakers are in discussions to bring Rasheed Wallace out of retirement and have him play left handed.

Stray
12-26-2011, 10:30 PM
Not sure about other providers, but on Dish Network they're showing NBA League Pass on a free preview at the moment. The channels start around 560.

Edit - Oh and this video is pretty cool.

http://youtu.be/Hq4wpy7QSao

Buckeye33
12-26-2011, 10:39 PM
Not sure about other providers, but on Dish Network they're showing NBA League Pass on a free preview at the moment. The channels start around 560.

Every provider that carries League pass should have the week long preview. They do the preview the week after the All Star game in normal years as well.

Ohayou
12-28-2011, 01:32 AM
Dayton's own Norris Cole making some noise in tonight's Celtics-Heat game!

reds1869
12-28-2011, 11:33 PM
Dayton's own Norris Cole making some noise in tonight's Celtics-Heat game!

I loved the "MVP" chant from the fans. I spent a year at Cleveland State as a grad assistant so I'm always happy to see former Vikes doing well.

Stray
12-29-2011, 06:48 PM
Pretty impressed with Cole, I had never heard of him before. Can you imagine how much guts it takes to even take those shots in the 4th quarter? There he was a rookie in his home debut, late in the 4th quarter while the team is collapsing, Lebron and D Wade on the court with him...and he takes those shots?!?! That's big time.

It also seems everyone has forgotten about the Spurs this year, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they are the 1 seed outta the West. If they can stay healthy in a shortened season I could definitely see them winning it all.

Ohayou
12-29-2011, 07:16 PM
Other than Kawhi Leonard, he's been the most impressive rookie I've seen so far.

Stray
12-29-2011, 07:42 PM
Kemba Walker has looked good too, in the little that I've watched. Brandon Knight had a heck of a game last night as well.

texasdave
12-30-2011, 12:37 AM
It is only one game but the Spurs did not look good at all tonight. I think the Spurs have gotten a little long in the tooth.

Playadlc
01-12-2012, 03:09 AM
Anyone catch the LAC/Heat game tonight? Great game.

The Clippers look good. I honestly think they have the pieces to make this game a Finals rematch.

Chip R
01-12-2012, 10:23 AM
Anyone catch the LAC/Heat game tonight? Great game.

The Clippers look good. I honestly think they have the pieces to make this game a Finals rematch.

Saw pretty much the last quarter of it but turned it off when it went to OT. Clips are looking good. Not to take anything away from that W but the Heat lost in OT the night before at Golden State. But it was good to get up this morning and see that the Clippers won.

Stray
01-12-2012, 12:08 PM
Man Lebron isn't doing anything to change his 4th quarter reputation haha. So many missed layups, jumpshots, and free throws down the stretch...and he fouled Billups late in that game on a 3.

Oh and Chris Paul is so good...his missed game winner was jaw dropping just because of the move he put on Lebron.

Stray
01-21-2012, 12:19 PM
So this was a good finish last night. Rubio's shot still needs work but he's been really impressive...he's way better than I thought he would be. If they can get Love to sign a new contract the T-Wolves have a bright future.

Kevin Love's Game Winning Three! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoLS0t6wzcs)

texasdave
02-13-2012, 07:12 PM
The Chicago Bulls own the best record in the NBA. Oh yeah, they have played 10 home games and 20 road games.

Revering4Blue
02-13-2012, 09:06 PM
The Chicago Bulls own the best record in the NBA. Oh yeah, they have played 10 home games and 20 road games.

And most of them without Deng, Rip Hamilton or Rose. When was the last time the Bulls were completely healthy?

NJReds
02-17-2012, 11:54 AM
Knicks signed JR Smith, who returned from China.

Now they have Linsanity and Insanity. Things are getting interesting at MSG.

Scrap Irony
02-17-2012, 01:13 PM
Smith can stretch defenses. He's a better SG than anything they have now.

That starting lineup is looking really interesting now:
Lin PG
Smith SG
Anthony SF
Stoudamire PF
Chandler C

Add in Baron Davis (when he finally gets in shape/ healthy), Novak, Fields, Harrison, and Shumpert and you've got some guys who can give you minutes too.

With luck, they just might get to second place in the Atlantic behind Philly and a top four seed in the playoffs. (Which is the real advantage here.)

NJReds
02-17-2012, 01:46 PM
Smith can stretch defenses. He's a better SG than anything they have now.

That starting lineup is looking really interesting now:
Lin PG
Smith SG
Anthony SF
Stoudamire PF
Chandler C


I don't think they intend to start Smith, they like what Landry Fields brings on both ends of the floor. Like most of the other players on the team, he's been playing much better since Lin started playing.

Smith will be part of the second team along Shumpert, Novak, Jeffries, Baron Davis (if he ever gets healthy).

I'd expect Smith and Shumpert to be splitting 6th man duties depending on whether the Knicks are struggling offensively or defensively at the time.

Revering4Blue
02-24-2012, 05:24 PM
According to Comcast SportsNet New England, Rasheed Wallace is set to sign with the Lakers.

Bye Bye, Pau?

improbus
03-05-2012, 07:44 PM
Smith can stretch defenses. He's a better SG than anything they have now.

That starting lineup is looking really interesting now:
Lin PG
Smith SG
Anthony SF
Stoudamire PF
Chandler C

Add in Baron Davis (when he finally gets in shape/ healthy), Novak, Fields, Harrison, and Shumpert and you've got some guys who can give you minutes too.

With luck, they just might get to second place in the Atlantic behind Philly and a top four seed in the playoffs. (Which is the real advantage here.)

This may sound crazy, but would anyone consider starting Baron when (or if) he is 100% and then play Lin mostly with the 2nd unit? Lin has trouble dealing with the elite defending PG's like Rondo and Chalmers. But, Lin worked so well with the second unit and has looked more lost with Amare and Carmelo in the lineup because neither of them compliment his particular skill set. Amare ends up standing on the baseline and doesn't attack the basket with Lin on the floor and Carmelo either gets iso's or end of the shot clock bail outs. Baron is better at setting up shooters than Lin , who is primarily looking to score. Plus, Baron plays up to his situation. Are you telling me you will get the best Baron when he is playing with Josh Harrelson and Jared Jeffries or Carmelo and Amare?

Revering4Blue
03-05-2012, 10:58 PM
This may sound crazy, but would anyone consider starting Baron when (or if) he is 100% and then play Lin mostly with the 2nd unit? Lin has trouble dealing with the elite defending PG's like Rondo and Chalmers. But, Lin worked so well with the second unit and has looked more lost with Amare and Carmelo in the lineup because neither of them compliment his particular skill set. Amare ends up standing on the baseline and doesn't attack the basket with Lin on the floor and Carmelo either gets iso's or end of the shot clock bail outs. Baron is better at setting up shooters than Lin , who is primarily looking to score. Plus, Baron plays up to his situation. Are you telling me you will get the best Baron when he is playing with Josh Harrelson and Jared Jeffries or Carmelo and Amare?
Interesting idea. But which PG would you want on the court in the closing minutes of a close game?

improbus
03-07-2012, 06:16 PM
Interesting idea. But which PG would you want on the court in the closing minutes of a close game?

It depends on the opposing PG. If it is a lesser defensive PG (a Steve Nash, Mo Williams type), I'm happy with Lin. But, I don't want Lin going against a Rondo, Rose type. I'm not sure I want a PG who has trouble dribbling against good defenders. Baron is just so much more experienced in those situations.

improbus
03-08-2012, 08:48 PM
Is anyone else as tired of the constant LeBron bashing? I can't believe how many people criticized him for that pass to Haslem in the Mlwaukee game. It was the absolute right play. Would you rather have a wide open free throw or a double teamed fade away 3? Also, UD has been struggling with his jumper all year, it is possible that LeBron is trying to build his confidence and let UD know that he believes in him.
In a way, Kobe and Rose are the polar opposites. Their play at the end of games tells me that they simply don't trust anyone else. Rose made what was probably the dumbest shot I've ever seen (not taken by Wizard of course) against Milwaukee yesterday. Every defender and opposing coach would love him to take a step back 19 footer from the wing. Doesn't he realize that he has Deng and Korver, two knock down shooters who can help him close games. I absolutely despise Hero Ball and LeBron simply doesn't fall for it.

texasdave
03-08-2012, 09:44 PM
I would take LeBron on my team any time.

TeamSelig
03-09-2012, 03:08 PM
I've been tired of the Lebron bashing since "The Decision" when it became popular

Roy Tucker
03-09-2012, 06:39 PM
Well, I'd take Lebron on my team any day and twice on Sundays. I consider him the best player in the NBA today.

But his 4th quarter fadeouts are a real thing. Frankly, I'll take a contested James 3 pointer over a wide-open 20 footer Haslem shot. James gets paid to take the money shot. There is a reason why Haslem (and other guys) are open. It's because the defense wants *them* to take the shots and not James (or Rose).

I think Lebron could stand to develop a little selfishness at the end of a game like Jordan or Kobe or Dirk or Durant. In the NBA, superstars make those shots, not a role player.

TeamSelig
03-10-2012, 02:12 AM
LeBron James takes over Game 5! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Px-jPm_TU)

Yea, it was a while ago. But it's not like he has some sort of disease that makes him suck it up in the 4th quarter. In the finals, it seemed like he would really turn on the defense in the 4th. I'd say that may be part of the reason his stats are down in the 4th. Plus, you have 2 star players. There is no need for him to be like Kobe and shoot 9/31

improbus
03-10-2012, 11:23 AM
Well, I'd take Lebron on my team any day and twice on Sundays. I consider him the best player in the NBA today.

But his 4th quarter fadeouts are a real thing. Frankly, I'll take a contested James 3 pointer over a wide-open 20 footer Haslem shot. James gets paid to take the money shot. There is a reason why Haslem (and other guys) are open. It's because the defense wants *them* to take the shots and not James (or Rose).

I think Lebron could stand to develop a little selfishness at the end of a game like Jordan or Kobe or Dirk or Durant. In the NBA, superstars make those shots, not a role player.

Durant's record on those shots? 3 for 23.

What do you say about this list?
Paxson, Kerr, Horry, Fisher, Sean Elliott, Jason Terry, etc... LeBron is 0 for 11 on that shot in the last three years. But, if LeBron can create double teams and find open guys to make that shot, then he is putting his team in the best spot to win.

The reason superstars make those shots is that they don't let anyone else take them. Don't equate correlation with coincidence.

BTW, in that play where LeBron passed to Haslem against Milwaukee, what if it was Bosh standing at the top of the key?

I want my stars making the play, not necessarily the shot.

Razor Shines
03-10-2012, 05:25 PM
Durant's record on those shots? 3 for 23.

What do you say about this list?
Paxson, Kerr, Horry, Fisher, Sean Elliott, Jason Terry, etc... LeBron is 0 for 11 on that shot in the last three years. But, if LeBron can create double teams and find open guys to make that shot, then he is putting his team in the best spot to win.

The reason superstars make those shots is that they don't let anyone else take them. Don't equate correlation with coincidence.

BTW, in that play where LeBron passed to Haslem against Milwaukee, what if it was Bosh standing at the top of the key?

I want my stars making the play, not necessarily the shot.

Great post. I'm not a Lebron fan as much as I just love watching great basketball players and I think this 4th quarter bashing stuff is silly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BuckeyeRed27
03-10-2012, 05:26 PM
Rubio out for the year with a torn ACL. Too bad he's fun to watch.

Revering4Blue
03-11-2012, 11:27 AM
Great post. I'm not a Lebron fan as much as I just love watching great basketball players and I think this 4th quarter bashing stuff is silly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lebron was solid in the 4th quarter and O.T last night. Nice effort by the Pacers, but they fell just short on the road.

Revering4Blue
03-11-2012, 11:30 AM
Rubio out for the year with a torn ACL. Too bad he's fun to watch.

It's a shame. The T-Wolves were a year ahead of schedule. However, their first round pick belongs to New Orleans via the Clippers via the Chris Paul deal.

texasdave
03-11-2012, 05:41 PM
Lin struggles today 5 for 18, 7 assists, 6 turnovers. Knicks lose their fifth straight.

improbus
03-11-2012, 08:58 PM
Anyone notice last nights Heat game? LeBron hits the big game tying three (and their last 8 points), then Bosh ties it near the end of overtime and Wade hits the buzzer beater. It's beautiful.

Roy Tucker
03-13-2012, 02:01 PM
I thought this was interesting.

http://gizmodo.com/5892424/five-years-of-every-nba-shot-attempt-visualized

improbus
03-13-2012, 08:52 PM
I thought this was interesting.

http://gizmodo.com/5892424/five-years-of-every-nba-shot-attempt-visualized

I've seen that image before. It is one of the points I like to make to people who don't like the NBA and give a reason straight out of central casting. "No one can make mid range jump shots." Here is the proof of why they don't bother taking them.

BTW, those green area midrangers might all be Kobe's shot attempts.

texasdave
03-13-2012, 09:53 PM
Houston Rockets made an official announcement today that they are changing the team's name to the Suns. Because they are slowly sinking into the West. :)

Revering4Blue
03-13-2012, 10:17 PM
The dominoes are beginning to fall.




Mutaman, as a Bucks fan, what do you think of this deal?

TeamSelig
03-14-2012, 01:02 AM
I would hate to lose a great center like Bogut, but he is really injury prone. Jax is nothing but a bad contract. Addition by subtraction IMO.

Ellis is a good player. Kwame is an expiring. Udoh hasn't shown me anything promising at all.

IDK... pretty even trade if you ask me. I'd give an edge to GSW on the trade, if I had to pick an initial 'winner'

Scrap Irony
03-14-2012, 09:58 AM
Udoh has a ton of talent and high upside. Monta Ellis is a 20/6/4 guy who takes bad shots. He's Russell Westbrook without the supporting cast.

Bogut is a very fine player-- when healthy. But he's never healthy. A 13/10/2 line as a starting center is respectful, but nothing special. And Stephen Jackson can be a 20/6/4 guy who takes really bad shots-- on the nights when he doesn't realize he's 33. Most of the time, at least at this point of his career, he's a very good bench guy capable of double figures and defense-- as long as he doesn't take too many stupid shots.

Advantage Milwaukee, IMO.

Stray
03-14-2012, 11:54 AM
Well apparently Melo wants out in NY...and NY fans want D'Antoni and/or Melo out? Crazy how much a couple of weeks can change.

I'm not a huge NBA fan or anything so I don't follow that close, but the Nuggets got better after they traded Melo, the Knicks got better when he got hurt, and the Knicks got worse when he came back.

Some of it is them playing harder teams I know, but it would appear whatever they had working before is torn apart by him being back on the floor. Maybe he just ruins their chemistry.

texasdave
03-14-2012, 02:58 PM
Well apparently Melo wants out in NY...and NY fans want D'Antoni and/or Melo out? Crazy how much a couple of weeks can change.

I'm not a huge NBA fan or anything so I don't follow that close, but the Nuggets got better after they traded Melo, the Knicks got better when he got hurt, and the Knicks got worse when he came back.

Some of it is them playing harder teams I know, but it would appear whatever they had working before is torn apart by him being back on the floor. Maybe he just ruins their chemistry.

I thought he just wanted in? Some players are just more trouble than they are worth. Maybe that tag fits Anthony. Maybe not. Wasn't it just a couple weeks ago people were hyping the Knicks? Melo, Stoudemire, Lin, Smith, Chandler.

Just read this. Melo wants to stay. Today anyway.


"I don't know where that came from. I'm tired of hearing it. It came out this morning from I guess an anonymous source. I'm tired of anonymous sources. I don't want to be traded. I don't know where that foolishness came from, so let's put a cap on that and make this the last time I hear about that."Anthony also denied there is a rift with Mike D'Antoni, saying he supported the coach "100 percent."

Stray
03-14-2012, 03:36 PM
I think it has more to do with Melo being a horrible fit for D'Antoni's offense. I've heard that he is never where the play is designed for him to be because they aren't his sweet spots, and he never plays defense. D'Antoni's offense works well with people that are willing to run it, so they looked better when Melo was hurt.

Also, D'Antoni just resigned. What a terrible mess they have going on up there. I'd say they should trade Melo, but honestly I can't imagine many people would want to take on his contract.

BuckeyeRed27
03-14-2012, 03:57 PM
Well apparently Melo wants out in NY...and NY fans want D'Antoni and/or Melo out? Crazy how much a couple of weeks can change.

I'm not a huge NBA fan or anything so I don't follow that close, but the Nuggets got better after they traded Melo, the Knicks got better when he got hurt, and the Knicks got worse when he came back.

Some of it is them playing harder teams I know, but it would appear whatever they had working before is torn apart by him being back on the floor. Maybe he just ruins their chemistry.

D'Antoni is out.

texasdave
03-14-2012, 06:12 PM
D'Antoni is out.

Must have been some kind of mess going on behind the scenes. I bet Melo is disappointed, seeing as how he supported D'Antoni 100%. :)

RBA
03-14-2012, 06:20 PM
Sources confirm: Lakers, Wolves and Blazers discussing three-team deal. Michael Beasley to LA, Jamal Crawford to MIN, Steve Blake to POR.

improbus
03-14-2012, 07:23 PM
I think it has more to do with Melo being a horrible fit for D'Antoni's offense. I've heard that he is never where the play is designed for him to be because they aren't his sweet spots, and he never plays defense. D'Antoni's offense works well with people that are willing to run it, so they looked better when Melo was hurt.

Agree 100%. Also, NY has played Miami, San Antonio, Philly, Boston, Dallas, And Chicago since Melo came back.

I'm not defending Melos effort on defense. He is laughable. But, D'Antoni was the wrong coach for their starting lineup. But, if he could coach Lin' and the second unit and let a more conventional coach run first unit...

texasdave
03-15-2012, 01:15 AM
Lebron 36. D.Wade 35. No Derrick Rose. Bulls are gonna win.

texasdave
03-15-2012, 04:05 PM
The Pacers entered deadline day with about $14.3 million in cap space, the most in the league, meaning they could absorb salary up to that amount without sending out any player salary in return. They have decided to use more than half of that to swallow up Leandro Barbosa’s $7.6 million expiring contract in exchange for a second-round draft pick in order to (in theory) prop up an offense that has ranked as average or worse in points per possession all season.

RBA
03-15-2012, 04:27 PM
Breaking Lakers Trade Derek Fisher and 2012 1st Rounder to Rockets for Jordan Hill http://t.co/iMlyKxsP

RBA
03-15-2012, 04:36 PM
Multiple outlets are now reporting that the Lakers have acquired Ramon Sessions and Christian Eyenga in a trade for Luke Walton and a 2012 first-round pick (lottery protected)

texasdave
03-15-2012, 04:37 PM
Breaking Lakers Trade Derek Fisher and 2012 1st Rounder to Rockets for Jordan Hill http://t.co/iMlyKxsP

Good luck with Jordan Hill. Athlete yes. Ballplayer no. Maybe he eventually gets it. My money is on no he doesn't.

texasdave
03-15-2012, 04:38 PM
Dupe post.

texasdave
03-15-2012, 04:43 PM
Camby headed for Houston: The Houston Rockets have acquired center Marcus Camby from the Portland Trail Blazers in exchange for center Hasheem Thabeet, guard Jonny Flynn and a 2012 second-round pick, league sources told Yahoo!

texasdave
03-15-2012, 04:44 PM
As part of three-team deal, Nene goes to the Wizards, JaVale McGee to Denver and Nick Young to Clippers, sources tell Y! Sports.

TeamSelig
03-15-2012, 04:47 PM
I like the Pacers trade.

Lakers trades are pretty good. Basically turning Fish into Sessions and adding Hill, for some late 1sts. Hill isn't the greatest but he is a solid back up.

Also, Gerald Wallace was traded to the Nets for Okur, Williams, top 3 protected 1st Rd pick.

texasdave
03-15-2012, 05:06 PM
The Warriors acquired small forward Richard Jefferson and a conditional 2012 first-round pick from the Spurs in exchange for small forward Stephen Jackson, sources confirmed to SI.com.

texasdave
03-15-2012, 05:30 PM
Nate McMillan gone.


Last night, after reports of veterans Jamal Crawford and Raymond Felton leading a “mutiny” against McMillan in the Blazers’ locker room, the team managed just 29 first-half points in a dreadful 121-79 loss to the New York Knicks — even though the Knicks had just fired their own coach, Mike D’Antoni.

Roy Tucker
03-16-2012, 10:05 AM
Portland also waived Greg Oden.

texasdave
03-16-2012, 12:49 PM
Portland also waived Greg Oden.

The Norse god of injury. :)

gilpdawg
03-17-2012, 07:55 PM
The Norse god of injury. :)

I wouldn't mind if the Pacers took a cheap flyer on him. If he doesn't play you're not counting on him anyway. If he could ever get healthy he could be good depth.

Revering4Blue
03-17-2012, 08:01 PM
I wouldn't mind if the Pacers took a cheap flyer on him. If he doesn't play you're not counting on him anyway. If he could ever get healthy he could be good depth.

I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if it happens this offseason. As for this season, Center depth is still a concern if Jeff Foster isn't healthy, which is often. Louis A. works in a pinch, but is better suited for PF.

texasdave
03-28-2012, 12:33 PM
Miami Heat forward LeBron James has an injured ring finger on his left hand.

Not many deals were given but we are certain that it wasn't his 'championship' ring finger. :)

texasdave
03-30-2012, 01:32 AM
Derek Fisher back in L.A., playing for the visiting Thunder.

improbus
04-06-2012, 08:13 AM
Uhhhh. What is Dwight doing? Is it possible that he could have handled this any worse?

Assembly Hall
04-06-2012, 09:01 AM
Uhhhh. What is Dwight doing? Is it possible that he could have handled this any worse?

All I could do was laugh. :laugh:

improbus
04-06-2012, 09:08 AM
All I could do was laugh. :laugh:

I actually think he's forcing the Magic to trade him in the offseason. He had no intention of either staying in Orlando or signing as a free agent somewhere else (and making significantly less money). He wants a new team and the max money that goes with it.

improbus
04-06-2012, 09:40 AM
Can we also stop jumping on and off the Knicks bandwagon. Their streaks are pretty simple to explain. Here is the run of games that got Dantoni fired:
Miami, Cleveland, Boston, Dallas, San Antiono, Milwaukee, Philly, Chicago.
Record: 1-7
They won one game in that stretch, and guess who they beat? Cleveland (a bad team). They faced 5 of the 6 title contenders in that stretch (LAL excepted), what exactly were they expected to do.

Here is their current run under Mike Woodson:
Portland, Indiana (x3), Toronto, Philly, Detroit, Milwaukee, Orlando (x2), Atlanta, Cleveland.
Record: 10-3
There are no title contenders in that group, and Orlando is imploding as we speak.

Oh, and for some more fun, here is the Linsanity run:
New Jersey, Utah, Washington, Lakers, Minnesota, Toronto, Sacramento
The Lakers were the only dangerous team in the group, (I know Utah is pretty good, but they aren't scary).

The Knicks have proven they can beat up on bad teams. Nothing more, nothing less.

Chip R
04-11-2012, 10:13 AM
And here come the Celtics.

texasdave
04-11-2012, 08:02 PM
Boy do I feel stupid. It's Dwyane Wade and not Dwayne Wade. I must have seen that name in print easily 100 times and never noticed.

Razor Shines
04-11-2012, 11:42 PM
Boy do I feel stupid. It's Dwyane Wade and not Dwayne Wade. I must have seen that name in print easily 100 times and never noticed.

I think Kayne West has mentioned that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Razor Shines
04-20-2012, 09:39 PM
Frank Vogel has to be a serious contender for COA.

It's hard to pick against Pop but I'd go with Vogel. I expected the Pacers to be good but not this good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tom Servo
04-22-2012, 07:18 PM
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2wi21TGGT1qejeigo1_400.gif

Stray
04-22-2012, 07:26 PM
That was a wicked elbow, be interesting to see what the league does about it. Btw, this OKC vs. LA game has been crazy.

texasdave
04-23-2012, 01:14 AM
Metta World Fool. Cheap shot artist supreme.

NJReds
04-23-2012, 12:39 PM
That was a wicked elbow, be interesting to see what the league does about it.

At least 20 games, including the playoffs. Maybe more. He should be out indefinitely, and then have to meet with the league prior to reinstatement next year.

It's worse, IMO, than the hit that Dale Hunter laid on Pierre Turgeon of the Islanders that resulted in a 21 game suspension.

Stray
04-23-2012, 01:27 PM
I don't think it should be that drastic. I guess you can say MWP has a violent past from his night in the Palace 8 years ago, but I don't think it's really that relevant here. Going into the stands is a different beast than something on the court.

Bynum got like what, 5 games for darn near breaking JJ Barea (who is about 1/3 of his size) in half last year. There's no precedent for a lengthy suspension like that. I'd say 3-5 games which would go into the playoffs would be fair. If Stern decides to include his past I think it could get longer, I don't think they will though.

Razor Shines
04-23-2012, 03:48 PM
I don't see what he did wrong???

Clearly Hardin is an enemy of world peace and Ron Ron doesn't suffer enemies of world peace, he turns them into a world of pieces.

WMR
04-23-2012, 04:05 PM
Harden hates world peace?

Very unfortunate.

Scrap Irony
04-24-2012, 04:08 PM
Were I commissioner, Peace would receive a five-game suspension-- to be handed down during the playoffs.

At the end of those five games, he should then be made to apologize. If he doesn't, it's another game. Then another and so on.

If he wants to act like a child, he'll then be treated as a child.

texasdave
04-25-2012, 02:13 AM
Metta World Peace gets seven games. It may carry over into next season depending on how well/often the Lakers do in the playoffs.

BuckeyeRed27
04-25-2012, 02:20 AM
Proud of my Jazz! Never thought this team would sniff the playoffs.

WMR
04-25-2012, 02:54 AM
How has Enes progressed this season?

dabvu2498
04-25-2012, 01:02 PM
7 games for RonRon. Seems light.

BuckeyeRed27
04-25-2012, 03:06 PM
How has Enes progressed this season?

I think he has been solid in the limited role he has right now. He still looks timid offensively at times, but you can see the potential for sure.

He is blocked by Jefferson, Milsap and Favors and recently Corbin has been putting all 3 of those guys out there at the same time.

IslandRed
04-25-2012, 04:49 PM
7 games for RonRon. Seems light.

Normally, I'd agree. But he'll miss six playoff games, which is quite likely to be the entire opening series. In NBA accounting, that's probably worth 20 regular-season games.

texasdave
04-26-2012, 12:44 AM
Congratulations are in order for the Charlotte Bobcats. The worst team in NBA history. (Or very very close to it)

Scrap Irony
04-26-2012, 03:02 PM
Anthony Davis, barring a minor miracle, would look good next to Bismarck Biyombo in the front court.

Add in a shooter (John Jenkins, Jeffrey Taylor, Darius Miller?) in the draft and share minutes with Gerald Henderson, who plays solid defense, has a solid mid-range game, and does nothing else well at all.

They'll also need to mine the free agent ranks for a point guard to share minutes with Kemba Walker. A Jameer Nelson would be great, as he could be instant offense off the bench, run the point, and provide veteran assistance for Walker. They could also go after Raymond Felton or Leandro Barbosa, both of which are better in less minutes. The big sign, IMO, might be Chauncey Billups or Randy Foye. Both are undersized shoot-first point guards; Charlotte needs some of that.

The real weak spot of the team is small forward. Corey Maggette scores, but does nothing else. They need shooting in the worst way, too. I'd try to sign qualifying offers to Chase Buddinger at Houston and Ryan Anderson at Orlando. Offer as large as you can and hope. Either would be the long range shooter needed. You could then pair them with Maggette (or deal him) or each other. They could also go after Steve Novak. None of them play any defense at all, but, with Biyombo and Davis down low, they may not need to do much other than gamble for steals.

Bis Biyombo C
Anthony Davis PF
Ryan Anderson SF
Chauncey Billups SG
Kemba Walker PG

Byron Mullens C
John Jenkins/ Jeffrey Taylor. Darius Miller/ Draft pick SG
Reggie Williams SG/SF
Gerald Henderson SG
Corey Maggette SF
Steve Novak PF/ SF

You'd have a solid eight or nine-man rotation, with solid backups at every spot.

Add to that the misery that is Washington, the age in Boston, the uncertainty in Orlando, and Atlanta's inconsistency, and Charlotte could be close to .500 next season. Add another high pick next season and you suddenly have three or four building blocks, in Davis, Walker, Biyombo and the new guy.

There's at least hope there.

texasdave
04-26-2012, 05:23 PM
True enough. A couple real high draft choices and a key free agent signing and a team can turn around their fortunes in a hurry in the NBA.

Revering4Blue
04-26-2012, 06:19 PM
Congratulations are in order for the Charlotte Bobcats. The worst team in NBA history. (Or very very close to it)

Let's be honest..As a GM, Michael Jordan makes Isaiah Thomas look like Red Auerbach in his heyday.

BTW, nice analysis, Scrap.

improbus
04-26-2012, 07:59 PM
Anthony Davis, barring a minor miracle, would look good next to Bismarck Biyombo in the front court.

Add in a shooter (John Jenkins, Jeffrey Taylor, Darius Miller?) in the draft and share minutes with Gerald Henderson, who plays solid defense, has a solid mid-range game, and does nothing else well at all.

They'll also need to mine the free agent ranks for a point guard to share minutes with Kemba Walker. A Jameer Nelson would be great, as he could be instant offense off the bench, run the point, and provide veteran assistance for Walker. They could also go after Raymond Felton or Leandro Barbosa, both of which are better in less minutes. The big sign, IMO, might be Chauncey Billups or Randy Foye. Both are undersized shoot-first point guards; Charlotte needs some of that.

The real weak spot of the team is small forward. Corey Maggette scores, but does nothing else. They need shooting in the worst way, too. I'd try to sign qualifying offers to Chase Buddinger at Houston and Ryan Anderson at Orlando. Offer as large as you can and hope. Either would be the long range shooter needed. You could then pair them with Maggette (or deal him) or each other. They could also go after Steve Novak. None of them play any defense at all, but, with Biyombo and Davis down low, they may not need to do much other than gamble for steals.

Bis Biyombo C
Anthony Davis PF
Ryan Anderson SF
Chauncey Billups SG
Kemba Walker PG

Byron Mullens C
John Jenkins/ Jeffrey Taylor. Darius Miller/ Draft pick SG
Reggie Williams SG/SF
Gerald Henderson SG
Corey Maggette SF
Steve Novak PF/ SF

You'd have a solid eight or nine-man rotation, with solid backups at every spot.

Add to that the misery that is Washington, the age in Boston, the uncertainty in Orlando, and Atlanta's inconsistency, and Charlotte could be close to .500 next season. Add another high pick next season and you suddenly have three or four building blocks, in Davis, Walker, Biyombo and the new guy.

There's at least hope there.

Sorry, I couldnt disagree more. Biyombo and Davis will block shots, but they will give you nothing offensively. If Davis had a hard time against Withey, how is he going to do with Chandler defending him?

Teams will not need to double either of them which mean all of those open threes Anderson is taking will now be contested threes.

Also, at this stage of their careers neither Kemba nor Chauncey can handle being a number one scoring option.

TeamSelig
04-27-2012, 12:10 AM
Let's be honest..As a GM, Michael Jordan makes Isaiah Thomas look like Red Auerbach in his heyday.

BTW, nice analysis, Scrap.

I could be wrong, but I think MJ is just part owner not the GM. I believe they have a GM.

Revering4Blue
04-27-2012, 07:41 AM
I could be wrong, but I think MJ is just part owner not the GM. I believe they have a GM.

You are not wrong, I am. However, Jordan made horrible decisions during his time with the Wizards, so the point still stands.

improbus
04-27-2012, 07:33 PM
I'm not sure if anyone has followed HoopIdea on ESPN, I heard a proposal to fix tanking that I really found intriguing.

Get rid of the draft.

Simply set a hard cap with maximum salaries. So, if LeBron can get $40 million a year on the open market (which he would), let him. Also, if Anthony Davis can get $15 million, let him. It would force a spreading out of the elite talent that the current soft cap encourages and it would force every team to try. There is no incentive to do what Charlotte, New Orleans, or so many other teams through the years have done by gutting their rosters.

This also might push teams to really taking advantage of the D League. They would be able to sign and stock minor league teams more easily and teach the game in a more consistent way.

WMR
04-28-2012, 06:26 PM
WOW! D. Rose tears his ACL and MCL in the final minute with a 12 pt lead... let the 2nd guessing begin.

WMR
04-28-2012, 06:50 PM
Now they're saying maybe it's not torn after all... LOL, gotta love the twitterverse.

BuckeyeRed27
04-28-2012, 07:35 PM
Now they're saying maybe it's not torn after all... LOL, gotta love the twitterverse.

It's been confirmed. He is out for the rest of the season. Too bad.

Revering4Blue
04-28-2012, 08:16 PM
No Rose, no Howard, and four East matchups with clear favorites. The West is another story..Three out of four series may go either way.

improbus
04-28-2012, 09:51 PM
Very sad news for Rose. This season has really been awful for him.

gilpdawg
04-28-2012, 11:15 PM
Nice gag job by my Pacers tonight. Pathetic.

Stray
04-29-2012, 12:04 AM
Hate to hear about shumpert and rose...that really sucks.

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Stray
04-29-2012, 11:09 PM
I'm pulling for the griz to come out of the West. I dunno why, but they're fun to watch.

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Razor Shines
04-29-2012, 11:56 PM
Nice gag job by my Pacers tonight. Pathetic.

I didnt think it was that bad. They still out rebounded the Magic. They just couldn't hit a shot, they won't shoot that poorly very often.


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Stray
04-30-2012, 01:16 AM
This is the craziest game I've ever watched

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texasdave
04-30-2012, 01:21 AM
You have to try to blow a 21 point lead after three quarters. Try hard at that.

improbus
04-30-2012, 09:06 PM
Please tell me you guys are watching LeBron. He is playing every position from 1 to 4 on offense, scoring 30+, and guarding both Carmelo and Tyson Chandler. He is unreal.

Revering4Blue
04-30-2012, 09:11 PM
Please tell me you guys are watching LeBron. He is playing every position from 1 to 4 on offense, scoring 30+, and guarding both Carmelo and Tyson Chandler. He is unreal.

Carmelo is lighting it up, FWIW.

Orenda
04-30-2012, 11:16 PM
Carmelo is lighting it up, FWIW.

Carmelo is too good of an offensive player to repeat last games output, but I have a hard time imagining them stealing more than 1 this series. There is just too much vitamin D down south.

WVRed
04-30-2012, 11:22 PM
Just saw the Brooklyn Nets new logo and color scheme.

Oakland Raiders part II?

Orenda
04-30-2012, 11:26 PM
I'll be interested to see what NY is able to do next year under Woodson and if Lin can take the next step. They could use another guy who can help create shots for their scorers imo.

Orenda
04-30-2012, 11:30 PM
Just saw the Brooklyn Nets new logo and color scheme.

Oakland Raiders part II?

silver and black is never a bad look imo, where the Dodgers the last team in Brooklyn?

RBA
05-01-2012, 03:31 AM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2012-04-30/floyd-mayweather-18-million-bet-wager-clippers-grizzlies-game-1

Razor Shines
05-01-2012, 12:24 PM
I'll be interested to see what NY is able to do next year under Woodson and if Lin can take the next step. They could use another guy who can help create shots for their scorers imo.

They should dump Woodson, IMO. Hes just changed Iso Joe to Iso Melo. Probably had something to do with Amare punching the fire extinguisher.


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Orenda
05-02-2012, 01:11 AM
They should dump Woodson, IMO. Hes just changed Iso Joe to Iso Melo. Probably had something to do with Amare punching the fire extinguisher.


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What are his options? He has to play his cards, and he's not the Banker or the GM. Their offense got Melo centric last night, and while it might not be my preffered style, Woodson has been winning.

Razor Shines
05-02-2012, 10:25 PM
Pacers and Spurs looking dominant right now, especially the Spurs, wow.

improbus
05-02-2012, 10:47 PM
Pacers and Spurs looking dominant right now, especially the Spurs, wow.

I think the condensed schedule hurt teams in the regular season, but now these guys have a fewer games on their legs than they normally would at this point in the season, so teams like the Spurs might be a little fresher. Duncan only played 58 games, Parker 60, and Manu played 34 games. Last year they entered the playoffs having played 80, 78, and 76 games. That's a huge difference.

texasdave
05-03-2012, 09:13 AM
Pacers and Spurs looking dominant right now, especially the Spurs, wow.

To be honest, without Dwight Howard in there, the Magic are not a playoff-caliber team. That's just my opinion.

Razor Shines
05-08-2012, 12:29 AM
To be honest, without Dwight Howard in there, the Magic are not a playoff-caliber team. That's just my opinion.

I think they're playoff caliber. I don't think they're worse than the Jazz or 76ers.

I expect the Heat to win but I think the Pacers will give them a tough series.


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Revering4Blue
05-08-2012, 07:30 PM
The Case for the 20-Year-Old Age Limit in the NBA

By Steve Kerr

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7883540/steve-kerr-problems-age-limit-nba

improbus
05-08-2012, 09:54 PM
The Case for the 20-Year-Old Age Limit in the NBA

By Steve Kerr

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7883540/steve-kerr-problems-age-limit-nba

I don't agree with Steve at all. There have always been draft busts, whether 18 or 20 or 22. It seems more tragic when someone like Ndubi Ebi fails miserably and doesn't have anything to show for it, but every industry has flameouts.

Razor Shines
05-09-2012, 02:19 AM
I'm not at all a Laker fan but I love watching Kobe.

Orenda
05-09-2012, 10:14 PM
Tyson Chandler may have been the best passer for the Knicks in the 1st half, time to evolve...point center is the future.

cincrazy
05-10-2012, 01:46 PM
Incredibly boring postseason so far. I wouldn't term myself a "die-hard" NBA fan, but certainly more than a casual fan, and I just can't get into the first round of the NBA playoffs. Ever since they changed the format from best of 5 to best of 7, it just hasn't been the same for me. Most of the series are extremely non-competitive and boring. The Clips-Grizz series is about the only series I've been able to watch thus far. The Hawks-Celts have had some close battles, but to me that's incredibly boring basketball being played.

Of course, it's fair to note injuries had a HUGE effect on this year's first round.

Scrap Irony
05-10-2012, 03:32 PM
I did get to see Tyson Chandler more. And the more I saw him, the more I liked him.

Best center in the East (excepting Howard, of course)?

Assembly Hall
05-10-2012, 07:07 PM
I did get to see Tyson Chandler more. And the more I saw him, the more I liked him.

Best center in the East (excepting Howard, of course)?

I know I am biased......but that guy that plays center for the Pacers aint too shabby.

Scrap Irony
05-10-2012, 11:35 PM
He's tall at least. And plays that way.

But Hibbert is as weak as a kitten and so awkward that it's almost painful to watch.

He gets the job done, but it's not my cup of tea. (Granger, otoh, is a joy.)

ervinsm84
05-11-2012, 01:11 AM
I love Faried so much. Might be my favorite player in the league. I'd really enjoy it if the nuggets held on tonight and somehow were able to win a game 7 in LA. Unfortunately, its going to be really hard to do with Karl insisting on playing Al Harrington significant minutes every night. That guy is terrible for an NBA player.

ervinsm84
05-11-2012, 01:14 AM
and eff kobe for that cheap shot on the Manimal.

Razor Shines
05-11-2012, 01:41 AM
and eff kobe for that cheap shot on the Manimal.

That wasn't a cheap shot. He just swung hard and missed the ball.


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ervinsm84
05-11-2012, 01:52 AM
That wasn't a cheap shot. He just swung hard and missed the ball.


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He clocked him in the head with his elbow/forearm when a player is in the most vulnerable position on the floor. It was called a flagrant foul after review. It's dirty. A cheap shot.

Must be nice if you're reffing for any guy to just swing at someone's head on a fast break in a wreckless manner and claim they just happened to miss the ball so it's not dirty.


in case any one missed it Kobe Bryant Knocks Out Kenneth Faried (Flagrant Foul) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKiOvjOgiTE)

Razor Shines
05-11-2012, 02:13 AM
He clocked him in the head with his elbow/forearm when a player is in the most vulnerable position on the floor. It was called a flagrant foul after review. It's dirty. A cheap shot.

Must be nice if you're reffing for any guy to just swing at someone's head on a fast break in a wreckless manner and claim they just happened to miss the ball so it's not dirty.


in case any one missed it Kobe Bryant Knocks Out Kenneth Faried (Flagrant Foul) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKiOvjOgiTE)

It just wasnt. You haven't played much ball in your life. I see this happen all the time, I've done it.

You swing hard because you're probably going to foul him and you don't want to give up an and 1. It deserved to be flagrant but that doesn't mean it was dirty.


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Razor Shines
05-11-2012, 02:16 AM
The more I watch it, the more I'm convinced you're wrong. He still made a play on the ball.

You're just a Kobe hater.


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ervinsm84
05-11-2012, 02:22 AM
The more I watch it, the more I'm convinced you're wrong. He still made a play on the ball.

You're just a Kobe hater.



Applying "making a play on a ball" to that incident is a pretty loose interpretation of that concept. By that logic, I guess I could just full out tackle someone too as long as I got a part of my hand on the ball in the process, bc you know "making a play on the ball" and I hit the ball with my hands.

Oh and I'm not sure if this is an official internet message board rule, but I'm pretty sure when one side resorts to "you're just a hater of X" that they just lost.

ervinsm84
05-11-2012, 02:25 AM
It just wasnt. You haven't played much ball in your life. I see this happen all the time, I've done it.

You swing hard because you're probably going to foul him and you don't want to give up an and 1. It deserved to be flagrant but that doesn't mean it was dirty.


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I love how you know exactly how much basketball I've played, seeing as you could not be more wrong about how much I've played. But really, im pretty sure whatever mediocre high school and amateur careers we had, it has pretty much nothing to do with this whatsoever, but nice logic fail and appeal to yourself as some basketball authority.

Razor Shines
05-11-2012, 02:30 AM
I love how you know exactly how much basketball I've played, seeing as you could not be more wrong about how much I've played. But really, im pretty sure whatever mediocre high school and amateur careers we had, it has pretty much nothing to do with this whatsoever, but nice logic fail and appeal to yourself as some basketball authority.

So you've never swung for a block from behind and hit a dude in the head? I have, even a couple weeks ago. It just happens, I'm just shocked that someone as yourself who plays a lot of basketball hasn't seen it happen.



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ervinsm84
05-11-2012, 02:33 AM
And lmao, if we really want to appeal to authority, I think the guy who actually played in the league, may have a better idea than either of us. Even Barkley just agreed with me on Inside the NBA, and he took it a step further fwiw.

Charles Barkley direct quote below, a quote said after the game, not in the heat of the moment, and said after plenty of time to review the replay.



"Ernie, that should've been an ejection. That was a flagrant foul right there. That shouldve been a flagrant 2......That should've been an ejection right there"

Razor Shines
05-11-2012, 02:40 AM
And lmao, if we really want to appeal to authority, I think the guy who actually played in the league, may have a better idea than either of us. Even Barkley just agreed with me on Inside the NBA, and he took it a step further fwiw.

Charles Barkley direct quote below, a quote said after the game, not in the heat of the moment, and said after plenty of time to review the replay.

Lol. Barkley just says stuff. They have hours of post and pre game to fill, they have to say something provocative.

Again, it deserved what it got, F1. Doesn't mean it was dirty.


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ervinsm84
05-11-2012, 02:49 AM
So let me get this straight.

Me:
Can't use myself as an authority and my mediocre high school career + post hs rec ball.
Can't use an Emmy winning analyst who happens to be a HOF NBA player as an authority

You:
Can use yourself and whatever high school and/or rec ball career as an authority.


Cool story bro

dabvu2498
05-11-2012, 03:02 AM
Enough with the personal stuff, please.

RBA
05-11-2012, 03:41 AM
Barkley has always been a Kobe hater. The man is jealous. 5 rings to Zero.

Orenda
05-11-2012, 05:20 AM
And lmao, if we really want to appeal to authority, I think the guy who actually played in the league, may have a better idea than either of us. Even Barkley just agreed with me on Inside the NBA, and he took it a step further fwiw.

Charles Barkley direct quote below, a quote said after the game, not in the heat of the moment, and said after plenty of time to review the replay.

i don't know, I think he might have been thinking he didn't want to give up a cheap dunk, but nothing egregious.

i think he was going for the ball, he expended a lot of energy just catching up to the play, his usual lift just wasn't there. Kobe's a competitor, but he's not a dirty player.

In Charles' days, an announcer probably would have mentioned how that was a tough "playoff foul".

Orenda
05-11-2012, 05:44 AM
I did get to see Tyson Chandler more. And the more I saw him, the more I liked him.

Best center in the East (excepting Howard, of course)?

i don't know if he's the best, in basketball it can be a matter of best player for a certain team or system, in NY, he knows his role, and it's not to put up a lot of shots.

Speaking of centers, KG might be under-rated at this point. If he's healthy, he's still an impact guy.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/garneke01.html

Check his stats...thats a lot of green $291,362,398. The Big Ticket should buy the Hawks, how much do NBA teams go for these days?

Orenda
05-11-2012, 06:00 AM
if you give it...gotta be able to take it right? Wouldn't think KG would get extra energy from someone else popping off. Love KG's game, i wouldn't underestimate him, but come on, most of us have rocks thrown throuh our glass houses...guess he has better security.

Kevin Garnett Calls Charlie Villanueva a Cancer Patient - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRBqxgVd9ss)

Razor Shines
05-11-2012, 11:28 AM
So let me get this straight.

Me:
Can't use myself as an authority and my mediocre high school career + post hs rec ball.
Can't use an Emmy winning analyst who happens to be a HOF NBA player as an authority

You:
Can use yourself and whatever high school and/or rec ball career as an authority.


Cool story bro

Barkley has an Emmy? Never mind, it was dirty.

I would bet everything I own that Barkley fouled someone like that at some point in his career and wasn't ejected, I bet back when he played it wasn't even flagrant.


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goreds2
05-11-2012, 12:56 PM
Being a SIXERS fan since the 70's, I am anxious to see this series againt the Celtics! Here is the upcoming TV schedule.

http://www.nba.com/schedules/national_tv_schedule/index.html

Stray
05-11-2012, 02:11 PM
Things must be bad for the Lakers when they're looking forward to Metta World Peace's return in game 7.

Has any borderline superstar ever cared as little as Andrew Bynum? What an enigma that guy is.