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View Full Version : Who is Redszone's #1 prospect?



camisadelgolf
10-12-2011, 07:52 PM
It's that time of year again. Pick your top prospect. To qualify as a prospect, a player must simply be eligible for the Rookie of the Year Award in 2012. If your choice isn't an option listed above, feel free to post it here as write-ins are encouraged. If a player gets noticeable support, then he will likely be added to the next poll. We'll be starting a new poll every three days or so. In the event of a tie, we will do a runoff vote.

Questions/comments/concerns are always welcome. Let the polls begin!

mth123
10-12-2011, 08:08 PM
Mesoraco for me. I'm actually a little cooler on him after seeing him behind the plate a few times in Cincy, but I'm still loving the power hitting catcher with at least average defense (and potential for more). Alonso's audition may garner him some votes in spite of the positional issues.

Please add Torreyes and Sappelt to the next poll.

dougdirt
10-12-2011, 09:13 PM
Easily Mesoraco. I really don't think anyone is close to him at this point. He has position scarcity, plus tools and performance to back it all up, while being ready to step onto the MLB field right now.

Also, add an "other" option for the next poll in case someone wants to vote for someone not listed, but specify that they say who it is in the post.

And MTH, are either of those two guys you suggested guys that you will be voting for next round? If not, why are we adding them just yet?

redsfan1995
10-12-2011, 09:14 PM
mesaraco for me to he didnt really wow us in september but i could tell he will be a special player. Next year hopefully he is the starting catcher all year.

cinreds21
10-12-2011, 09:24 PM
And Corcino. I assume he'll be voted on soon.

Superdude
10-13-2011, 01:11 AM
Landslide. Should be interesting after this though

The DARK
10-13-2011, 01:28 AM
Neftali Soto for the next poll. He's still young, and you don't mash 30 HR in a minor league season after years of promise without being a relatively major prospect.

mth123
10-13-2011, 03:09 AM
Easily Mesoraco. I really don't think anyone is close to him at this point. He has position scarcity, plus tools and performance to back it all up, while being ready to step onto the MLB field right now.

Also, add an "other" option for the next poll in case someone wants to vote for someone not listed, but specify that they say who it is in the post.

And MTH, are either of those two guys you suggested guys that you will be voting for next round? If not, why are we adding them just yet?

I have both in my top 5. Not sure if I have them at 2, but as the rounds tick off, the mere fact some guys are on and others aren't is a suggestion that those two are lesser propspects, its not a huge deal, but but I wonder if it would influence the voting. I also see that Corcino and Soto have been requested. and I have both rated ahead of some of the guys already on the list. Just want to keep the voting as fair as possible.

redsfandan
10-13-2011, 05:30 AM
Hey Camisadelgolf, how about making the rest of the prospect polls public.

lollipopcurve
10-13-2011, 09:11 AM
I went Alonso, just because the bat looks very polished. Almost voted Mesoraco, but I just did not see enough polish offensively or defensively. Lotta different ways to see the top group this year, and my guess is that a year from now what each guy brings to the table defensively (speaking of position players only) will be a key factor in the rankings (or, more likely, in how we see their value as big leaguers). For now, I haven't seen enough to vote on that basis.

crazybob60
10-13-2011, 09:41 AM
I am going with Mesoraco. I think its a closer race here actually than most imagine, but Mes still wins. One thing that I was thinking is that if all things were even, (ie guys with the same pro experience and at the same level) how different this top spot would be. I know that that is just projection and would defeat the purpose of this, but I highly doubt that Mes would still be so easily in this top spot. I doubt he would even crack my top 5 then.

Redsfan320
10-13-2011, 09:47 AM
Hey Camisadelgolf, how about making the rest of the prospect polls public.

This one is. Just click on one of the numbers showing how many votes a prospect has (such as the "34" across from Mesoraco's name) and it'll load the thread again, but this time showing who voted for who under each prospect's name.

320

mace
10-13-2011, 10:34 AM
I went with Mes, without thinking twice, but I'm surprised that nobody has made a case for Cozart. A plus glove at SS, with signs of being a plus bat as well; at least an average bat for that position, it would seem. He definitely impressed in the too-brief period between his call-up and injury.

Kc61
10-13-2011, 10:35 AM
I went with Mesoraco.

I'm planning on going with Hamilton next. I know he's raw, and I know that you can't steal first base. But Hamilton's baserunning ability is the kind of unique skill that elevates him above other prospects. Huge upside.

puca
10-13-2011, 10:55 AM
Easy choice for me. I like Yonder as a hitter, but if Mez can produce as a catcher in the majors he is gold.

dougdirt
10-13-2011, 10:57 AM
I am going with Mesoraco. I think its a closer race here actually than most imagine, but Mes still wins. One thing that I was thinking is that if all things were even, (ie guys with the same pro experience and at the same level) how different this top spot would be. I know that that is just projection and would defeat the purpose of this, but I highly doubt that Mes would still be so easily in this top spot. I doubt he would even crack my top 5 then.

I am not quite sure what you are trying to say with this post. Try and explain it in a different way. I am not sure I get where you are going with the post and would like to.

crazybob60
10-13-2011, 11:14 AM
I am not quite sure what you are trying to say with this post. Try and explain it in a different way. I am not sure I get where you are going with the post and would like to.

Say all the guys in the Reds system have the same experience level and have all things equal. Like having Hamilton, Yorman, Mes, Yonder, Grandal, and so on all being on an equal plane of having say 3-4 years of minors experience and all getting ready on the verge of making the opening day roster. Instead of Hamilton and Yorman getting ready to start at Bakersfield, Grandal at Louisville, and Mes and Yonder in Cincy. I was just throwing out a hypothetical situation that if all things were equal and they were at the same stages in their career and all of them were on the verge of making the MLB roster at Spring Training, then I am just curious how the voting would fair then. I know its completely hypothetical and there is no way to gauge that, but it is just something that had me thinking. Its hard to explain, hopefully I did a better job explaining it there.

Superdude
10-13-2011, 11:32 AM
Say all the guys in the Reds system have the same experience level and have all things equal. Like having Hamilton, Yorman, Mes, Yonder, Grandal, and so on all being on an equal plane of having say 3-4 years of minors experience and all getting ready on the verge of making the opening day roster. Instead of Hamilton and Yorman getting ready to start at Bakersfield, Grandal at Louisville, and Mes and Yonder in Cincy. I was just throwing out a hypothetical situation that if all things were equal and they were at the same stages in their career and all of them were on the verge of making the MLB roster at Spring Training, then I am just curious how the voting would fair then. I know its completely hypothetical and there is no way to gauge that, but it is just something that had me thinking. Its hard to explain, hopefully I did a better job explaining it there.

Where they are in their development plays into risk though. Yorman has the potential to parallel Mesoraco at some point, but the fact that he could still completely flame out at AA makes him a lesser prospect.

Superdude
10-13-2011, 11:36 AM
I went with Mes, without thinking twice, but I'm surprised that nobody has made a case for Cozart. A plus glove at SS, with signs of being a plus bat as well; at least an average bat for that position, it would seem. He definitely impressed in the too-brief period between his call-up and injury.

I think Cozart's the one we're gonna look back on in three years and realize we underrated. He's never been young enough for real prospect attention, but if he becomes a plus defensive shortstop with 15-20 homers a year, that's a huge asset.

RedsManRick
10-13-2011, 11:39 AM
Easily Mes. Corcino should be added moving forward -- probably top 5.

crazybob60
10-13-2011, 11:42 AM
Where they are in their development plays into risk though. Yorman has the potential to parallel Mesoraco at some point, but the fact that he could still completely flame out at AA makes him a lesser prospect.

That is true. That is why I was saying it was purely hypothetical and really hard to gauge something like that, but something that I was just pondering.

HokieRed
10-13-2011, 02:08 PM
Alonso. I continue to think the bat is that good.

Degenerate39
10-13-2011, 07:18 PM
I voted Alonso but its a tough choice between him and Mes.

mth123
10-13-2011, 07:44 PM
I think Cozart's the one we're gonna look back on in three years and realize we underrated. He's never been young enough for real prospect attention, but if he becomes a plus defensive shortstop with 15-20 homers a year, that's a huge asset.

I had Cozart at #3 last year behind Chapman and Mes. I'm debating the number two spot in my mind between Cozart and Alonso. Still haven't decided that one.

marcshoe
10-13-2011, 08:01 PM
Mes over Alonso because he's a catcher. Two years ago, who would've imagined he'd be the consensus number one?

dougdirt
10-13-2011, 09:35 PM
Mes over Alonso because he's a catcher. Two years ago, who would've imagined he'd be the consensus number one?

I would have told you he had a chance.

Mario-Rijo
10-13-2011, 10:04 PM
I would have told you he had a chance.

Same here.

redsfandan
10-14-2011, 03:48 AM
I had Cozart at #3 last year behind Chapman and Mes. I'm debating the number two spot in my mind between Cozart and Alonso. Still haven't decided that one.

That's where I'm at as well. Taking defense and position into account is making it harder than I thought it would be.

lollipopcurve
10-14-2011, 08:47 AM
Taking defense and position into account is making it harder than I thought it would be.

Agreed. But I'd say we don't have a real good read yet on how good/bad any of these guys will be at their positions -- except Cozart. He will be solid at SS, and that's a significant consideration in his favor. But Mes might end up moving to make room for Grandal, and vice versa. Alonso may be in LF or 1B. So, the deciding factor for me was the bat.

mace
10-14-2011, 10:46 AM
Alonso showed up well in his audition, but he's so limited by position. I'm just not convinced that, as a hitter, he'll be above-average in LF or especially at 1B. For that reason, I think I'll have Cozart, Hamilton and possibly Torreyes ahead of him. I'm probably overvaluing youth, I know . . . but if I had a trade almost made and could complete it by dealing any one of those guys, I think Alonso is the one I'd be least conflicted about.

That said, he has a lot going for him. I didn't know, until September, that I'd like his makeup as much as I do.

bucksfan2
10-14-2011, 02:34 PM
Easily Mesoraco. I really don't think anyone is close to him at this point. He has position scarcity, plus tools and performance to back it all up, while being ready to step onto the MLB field right now.

Also, add an "other" option for the next poll in case someone wants to vote for someone not listed, but specify that they say who it is in the post.

And MTH, are either of those two guys you suggested guys that you will be voting for next round? If not, why are we adding them just yet?

Is it position scarcity if you have two of the top 5 or so prospects in your system playing the same position?

I went with Mes but I would I think Alonso has the better major league career.

Scrap Irony
10-14-2011, 02:39 PM
Alonso is not a good LF. He's not even a poor LF-- he's worse than that.

IF (notice the capitals) he can be even poor, he'll be a decent option for a few years.

Cozart, meanwhile, has defensive value even if he pulls a Janish. Which is not likely, as he has enough power to make pitchers pitch to him.

Tough call, IMO.

dougdirt
10-14-2011, 02:59 PM
Is it position scarcity if you have two of the top 5 or so prospects in your system playing the same position?

I went with Mes but I would I think Alonso has the better major league career.

Yes, it is still position scarcity because when you think about what you want from a catcher, there simply aren't close to 30 guys who can fill that role. Even if we have two guys who might be able to as prospect.

And to be honest, if you think Alonso is going to have the better career, you should have selected him. That is the definition of prospect, what something will do in the future.

mdccclxix
10-15-2011, 12:50 AM
I'm going with Grandal. To me the debate is not settled between him and Mesoraco. I have him rated highest offensively, although I recognize the league he's in elevates that a lot. Nevertheless, he had an impressive year, albeit in the shadow of Mez. .401 OBP, switch hitting Catcher, the power is there, defense is good and should improve with some more reps.

dougdirt
10-15-2011, 01:00 AM
I'm going with Grandal. To me the debate is not settled between him and Mesoraco. I have him rated highest offensively, although I recognize the league he's in elevates that a lot. Nevertheless, he had an impressive year, albeit in the shadow of Mez. .401 OBP, switch hitting Catcher, the power is there, defense is good and should improve with some more reps.

Defensive reports were actually quite lackluster this year.

mdccclxix
10-15-2011, 09:39 AM
As were Mez's at some point.

reds1869
10-15-2011, 12:10 PM
Mes for me.

dougdirt
10-15-2011, 12:46 PM
As were Mez's at some point.

Yes, but there are two differences.... first, you said he had good defense, which, at least according to reports this season, wasn't entirely accurate. Secondly, Mesoraco has better tools defensively and always has. So even when he wasn't all that good back there, the tools were.

mdccclxix
10-16-2011, 11:35 PM
I certainly don't have the access to info that you do. However, when there are mixed reviews on defense, it certainly bears patience. It was Grandal's first full year and he moved quickly up the ranks. I think with more coaching in AAA for the next 2 years, he will become very good on defense. In Bakersfield, there were 128 wild pitches, which led the league, so I do not think that was Grandal's fault, or we'd be hearing now about a switch to another position. The staff was very wild.

In general, I like the polish that he's shown at the plate and in his work ethic. When he's ready for MLB, I think he'll likely be "more ready" than Mes, who I foresee struggling in 2012. Frankly, the chances that either one becomes a .800 OPS bat is actually pretty slim, they just don't occur at the catcher position very often. Because of his versatility and polish, I like the higher floor from Grandal. To me, it's a safer pick.

Statistical comparison:

Mez 2010 in A+, AA, AAA: 11 errors, 13 passed balls, Hillcats staff 74 WP, Mudcats 68 WP

Grandal 2011 in A+, AA, AAA: 13 errors, 19 PB (14 in BAK), Bakersfield staff 128 WP

dougdirt
10-16-2011, 11:41 PM
I certainly don't have the access to info that you do. However, when there are mixed reviews on defense, it certainly bears patience. It was Grandal's first full year and he moved quickly up the ranks. I think with more coaching in AAA for the next 2 years, he will become very good on defense. In Bakersfield, there were 128 wild pitches, which led the league, so I do not think that was Grandal's fault, or we'd be hearing now about a switch to another position. The staff was very wild.

In general, I like the polish that he's shown at the plate and in his work ethic. When he's ready for MLB, I think he'll likely be "more ready" than Mes, who I foresee struggling in 2012. Frankly, the chances that either one becomes a .800 OPS bat is actually pretty slim, they just don't occur at the catcher position very often. Because of his versatility and polish, I like the higher floor from Grandal. To me, it's a safer pick.

Statistical comparison:

Mez 2010 in A+, AA, AAA: 11 errors, 13 passed balls, Hillcats staff 74 WP, Mudcats 68 WP

Grandal 2011 in A+, AA, AAA: 13 errors, 19 PB (14 in BAK), Bakersfield staff 128 WP

The reports I got were not so much about his passed balls. Of course, as I think I said here (though it may have been somewhere else, I don't want to go back and look), I have access to several of his games to go back and watch to get a better feel where I can focus solely on his defense behind the plate.