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klw
10-21-2011, 07:26 PM
I missed this yesterday.
http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/2011/10/20/chapman-to-afl/


The Reds revealed on Thursday that LHP Aroldis Chapman would begin his transition to starting by working games in the Arizona Fall League on Oct. 24, 27 and 31. He will start the games and work a couple of innings as he stretches himself out.

Slyder
10-22-2011, 12:39 AM
I missed this yesterday.
http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/2011/10/20/chapman-to-afl/

About Flippin Time! This year was such a waste with him in the pen.

Superdude
10-22-2011, 01:39 AM
About Flippin Time! This year was such a waste with him in the pen.

Seriously. Now he goes into spring training as a complete question mark with a tight innings cap. This process should have started a long time ago.

mth123
10-22-2011, 04:09 AM
Seriously. Now he goes into spring training as a complete question mark with a tight innings cap. This process should have started a long time ago.

This is why its not so clear for me. Ideally, I want to see Chapman starting like everyone else does, but this is not the best thing for winning in 2012. In the bullpen, Chapman is an answer. In the rotation he's just another question added to a group already overflowing with questions.

The Reds could have something special at the back end of the pen with Chapman/Boxberger being the Reds version of Ventors/Kimbrel at the end of the game. I'd prefer somebody more proven to address this team's rotation woes.

Superdude
10-22-2011, 05:40 AM
This is why its not so clear for me. Ideally, I want to see Chapman starting like everyone else does, but this is not the best thing for winning in 2012. In the bullpen, Chapman is an answer. In the rotation he's just another question added to a group already overflowing with questions.

The Reds could have something special at the back end of the pen with Chapman/Boxberger being the Reds version of Ventors/Kimbrel at the end of the game. I'd prefer somebody more proven to address this team's rotation woes.

I still think you've gotta pursue the starting route at some point with Chapman. The potential payoff is just too big to settle for a late inning reliever. I agree with you though. You have to go into the season assuming Chapman is going to be nothing more than a project.

mth123
10-22-2011, 07:30 AM
I still think you've gotta pursue the starting route at some point with Chapman. The potential payoff is just too big to settle for a late inning reliever. I agree with you though. You have to go into the season assuming Chapman is going to be nothing more than a project.

The problem is that Arroyo, Cueto and Leake are going to be in. The team needs a stabilizer from outside to take up one spot, so putting Chapman in the rotation means giving up on Homer Bailey. I'm not really sure that is that much of an upgrade down the road and its a downgrade in 2012 while weakening the bullpen. Worse, the team may just pass on bringing somebody in. If so, kiss any 2012 play-off dreams goodbye.

I(heart)Freel
10-22-2011, 10:14 AM
The Reds won with Leake on an innings cap last year. Worth remembering that.

mth123
10-22-2011, 10:18 AM
The Reds won with Leake on an innings cap last year. Worth remembering that.

Because when he went south in early June, Travis Wood came up and pitched like a TOR starter. Counting on something like that again?

Will M
10-22-2011, 10:44 AM
This is why its not so clear for me. Ideally, I want to see Chapman starting like everyone else does, but this is not the best thing for winning in 2012. In the bullpen, Chapman is an answer. In the rotation he's just another question added to a group already overflowing with questions.

The Reds could have something special at the back end of the pen with Chapman/Boxberger being the Reds version of Ventors/Kimbrel at the end of the game. I'd prefer somebody more proven to address this team's rotation woes.

i agree here. let Chapman close in 2012. then go get the best starter we can. likely Shields or Wandy. the other 4 starters are Cueto, Leake, Bailey & Arroyo. the Reds are not going to eat the money owed to Arroyo so he is in as the 5th starter. so moving Chapman to the rotation doesn't give us a strong starter that we need. it just gives us a question mark. it also means that the Reds go spend money on a 'closer'.
would you rather have:
a) Chapman in the rotation & Cordero as closer
b) Wandy/Shields in the rotation and Chapman as closer

thats an easy decision for me. the 2nd choice gives us a clear rotation upgrade over the 2011 Volquez/Willis slot and gives us a strong closer.

Slyder
10-22-2011, 11:30 AM
i agree here. let Chapman close in 2012. then go get the best starter we can. likely Shields or Wandy. the other 4 starters are Cueto, Leake, Bailey & Arroyo. the Reds are not going to eat the money owed to Arroyo so he is in as the 5th starter. so moving Chapman to the rotation doesn't give us a strong starter that we need. it just gives us a question mark. it also means that the Reds go spend money on a 'closer'.
would you rather have:
a) Chapman in the rotation & Cordero as closer
b) Wandy/Shields in the rotation and Chapman as closer

thats an easy decision for me. the 2nd choice gives us a clear rotation upgrade over the 2011 Volquez/Willis slot and gives us a strong closer.

Use some package including one or two of any starters not named Cueto and Chapman and see what you can get in terms of upgrading the team or just trading chips in general for a Shields type trade, its not like 90% of the league doesn't need more pitching.

Shields
Cueto
Leake/whoever isn't dealt
Chapman
Arroyo

traderumor
10-22-2011, 12:17 PM
Ah, my tag line appears: can't win with Chapman in the pen, can't win without him in the pen.

I think it is a bit premature to make conclusions about his value in the pen for 2012 vs. his value in the rotation for 2012. He's wasted as a short man in the pen, yet not put him in the rotation because he might not be an immediate ace when he steps into the rotation. Unfortunately, the decision makers have to crap or get off the pot, unlike message board posters.

Will M
10-22-2011, 12:48 PM
Use some package including one or two of any starters not named Cueto and Chapman and see what you can get in terms of upgrading the team or just trading chips in general for a Shields type trade, its not like 90% of the league doesn't need more pitching.

Shields
Cueto
Leake/whoever isn't dealt
Chapman
Arroyo

i see things differently than you.
1) i think Bailey is likely to pitch better as a starter in 2012 than Chapman.
i'd rather deal Alonso/Grandal for Shields or Stubbs/Volquez/Masset for Wandy than deal Bailey. even though he has been around for years Bailey could still get it all together and pitch like #2 starter in 2012. Leake is a solid #3 guy. it seems to me that we had 2 holes in the 2011 rotation: Volquez/Willis & Arroyo. since we are stuck with Arroyo I'd rather simply replace the Volquez/Willis spot with a guy like Wandy or Shields. I think we can do that without dealing the other 3 starters. so the way i'd want to set up the rotation there simply isn't room for Chapman unless Arroyo goes which i can't see happening.
2) i'd prefer we not put too many question marks into the mix. thats my philosophy in general and more so since the clock is ticking on Votto's time as a Red. to me it seems Chapman could close in 2012 but as a starter he is an unknown. if we were in rebuilding mode i'd let him start. but i think the team can contend in 2012 with the right moves.
3) also if Chapman starts then the team is going to go out and pay for a 'closer'. i'd prefer a pen of Chapman, Bray, Ondrusek, Lecure, Boxberger plus a cheap vet. the difference between the cheap vet and say resigning Cordero is likely ~$5M.

nate
10-22-2011, 01:34 PM
About Flippin Time! This year was such a waste with him in the pen.

To me, it seems like it was part of the plan (as is playing in the AFL) to get him used to starting. In that case, it hardly seems like a waste. Given how poor his control was this year, I could see the move to the rotation as premature.

757690
10-22-2011, 01:36 PM
If Chapman is a gigantic question mark as a starter, then is also is a gigantic question mark as a closer. He hasn't done either in his MLB career, and his results as a reliever were surely mixed at best.

If he's going to be a question mark, then why not have him be a question mark at a much more valuable position, in case he succeeds? And if he fails as a starter, it will be easy to move him back to the pen. Stretching him out to start is about as easy a no brainer as possible.

mth123
10-22-2011, 01:59 PM
If Chapman is a gigantic question mark as a starter, then is also is a gigantic question mark as a closer. He hasn't done either in his MLB career, and his results as a reliever were surely mixed at best.

If he's going to be a question mark, then why not have him be a question mark at a much more valuable position, in case he succeeds? And if he fails as a starter, it will be easy to move him back to the pen. Stretching him out to start is about as easy a no brainer as possible.

I don't get that thinking. I want more certainty pitching the larger number of innings. He likely pushes Bailey or Leake out of the rotation or causes the Reds to pass on help from the outside. Each of those options is likely to be a better starter than Chapman in 2012.

Why would I want to replace those guys with a question mark. I'd be all for upgrading to a more proven guy, but I'd prefer the Reds be less dependent on question marks. He's been decent as a reliever. I don't really think he's a question mark in the bullpen. He may not prove to be a closer, but flip flop him with another reliever and move on. If he flops in the rotation, who replaces him? Traviis Wood? Matt Maloney? I don't see the Reds keeping Bailey around as a long reliever.

757690
10-22-2011, 02:48 PM
I don't get that thinking. I want more certainty pitching the larger number of innings. He likely pushes Bailey or Leake out of the rotation or causes the Reds to pass on help from the outside. Each of those options is likely to be a better starter than Chapman in 2012.

Why would I want to replace those guys with a question mark. I'd be all for upgrading to a more proven guy, but I'd prefer the Reds be less dependent on question marks. He's been decent as a reliever. I don't really think he's a question mark in the bullpen. He may not prove to be a closer, but flip flop him with another reliever and move on. If he flops in the rotation, who replaces him? Traviis Wood? Matt Maloney? I don't see the Reds keeping Bailey around as a long reliever.

Why go into next season with just 5 starters? You can never have enough starting pitching, so I see no reason why the Reds would have to bump someone just because they are stretching out Chapman.

Stretch him out, bring Cueto, Leake, Arroyo, Bailey, Wood, Maloney, LeCure, a new acquisition or two, and Chapman into camp and have them compete for the five spots. Most likely, injuries will decide whose in the rotation at the start of the season. And if Chapman isn't one of them, move him back to the pen.

If the Reds have too many good guys for the 5 spots, how horrible! ;)

traderumor
10-22-2011, 03:06 PM
I don't get that thinking. I want more certainty pitching the larger number of innings. He likely pushes Bailey or Leake out of the rotation or causes the Reds to pass on help from the outside. Each of those options is likely to be a better starter than Chapman in 2012.

Why would I want to replace those guys with a question mark. I'd be all for upgrading to a more proven guy, but I'd prefer the Reds be less dependent on question marks. He's been decent as a reliever. I don't really think he's a question mark in the bullpen. He may not prove to be a closer, but flip flop him with another reliever and move on. If he flops in the rotation, who replaces him? Traviis Wood? Matt Maloney? I don't see the Reds keeping Bailey around as a long reliever.I think you have to qualify this reasoning with "as the roster stands today." This is a piece of the puzzle being placed if the Reds are going to win in 2012.

Of course, every one wants certainty. Some teams get to buy into increased certainty, but still come up short more often than not. Other teams, like the Reds can only afford to have a few "sure things" and have to rely on question marks being gold rather than pyrite. A fan of the Reds type of org. is going to be a lot less frustrated if they accept that as a given rather than a choice the Reds ownership and management make for some unknown reason, or to simply line their pockets, or simply exhibiting incompetence.

wlf WV
10-22-2011, 04:00 PM
I think you have to qualify this reasoning with "as the roster stands today." This is a piece of the puzzle being placed if the Reds are going to win in 2012.

Of course, every one wants certainty. Some teams get to buy into increased certainty, but still come up short more often than not. Other teams, like the Reds can only afford to have a few "sure things" and have to rely on question marks being gold rather than pyrite. A fan of the Reds type of org. is going to be a lot less frustrated if they accept that as a given rather than a choice the Reds ownership and management make for some unknown reason, or to simply line their pockets, or simply exhibiting incompetence.
And this is one of the reasons the sport has fallen in popularity.

marcshoe
10-22-2011, 09:37 PM
I could be completely wrong about this, but...

I think there was some reevaluation in the organization this year because of the disappointing season. I think that there's a good chance that Dusty has been put on notice about a few things, and that Walt will likely tweak the way the club is run a little. I'm seeing evidence of it in moves such as this. What I'm trying to say, though, is that I honestly believe that Arroyo may not be as assured of a no-matter-what spot in the rotation from April through October as he has been.

This may be wishful thinking on my part, but even if it isn't, I think Chapman's value lies in the rotation and that this shouldn't hinder Bailey's development. We'll see.

Blitz Dorsey
10-22-2011, 10:03 PM
This is epic win for all of humanity!

(I mean, I like this idea.)

I(heart)Freel
10-23-2011, 11:48 AM
Because when he went south in early June, Travis Wood came up and pitched like a TOR starter. Counting on something like that again?

Leake had an ERA under 3.5 until early August and under 4 til last few starts in mid to late August.

http://redsnetlive.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/leake-bailey-and-wood-2010-graphs-1-of-3-mike-leake-2010/

But to your point, if the Reds are in it and Chapman is hitting a wall, then that's when the trade deadline could net you a playoff arm too.

The timing isn't bad for this strategy.

_Sir_Charles_
10-23-2011, 11:51 AM
The problem is that Arroyo, Cueto and Leake are going to be in. The team needs a stabilizer from outside to take up one spot, so putting Chapman in the rotation means giving up on Homer Bailey. I'm not really sure that is that much of an upgrade down the road and its a downgrade in 2012 while weakening the bullpen. Worse, the team may just pass on bringing somebody in. If so, kiss any 2012 play-off dreams goodbye.

Why do you say this? If there's anybody we're going to be "giving up on" it would be Volquez IMO. I fully expect to see him either in L'ville or traded by the beginning of next season. Homer's in the rotation.

_Sir_Charles_
10-23-2011, 11:55 AM
i agree here. let Chapman close in 2012. then go get the best starter we can. likely Shields or Wandy. the other 4 starters are Cueto, Leake, Bailey & Arroyo. the Reds are not going to eat the money owed to Arroyo so he is in as the 5th starter. so moving Chapman to the rotation doesn't give us a strong starter that we need. it just gives us a question mark. it also means that the Reds go spend money on a 'closer'.
would you rather have:
a) Chapman in the rotation & Cordero as closer
b) Wandy/Shields in the rotation and Chapman as closer

thats an easy decision for me. the 2nd choice gives us a clear rotation upgrade over the 2011 Volquez/Willis slot and gives us a strong closer.

option c) some joe schmoe bargain bin starter in the rotation and Chapman as closer.

Or even worse, option d) Some joe schmoe bargain bin starter in the rotation, Cordero as closer and Chapman still as a middle reliever.

At the end of the day, I still think it'll end up being option A. But the rest of the rotation is NOT a lock. Trades change that up possibly.

IslandRed
10-23-2011, 12:59 PM
It was fine with me when they moved him to the bullpen in 2010. From the reports we were reading, it seemed as if he needed the discipline of coming to the ballpark every day knowing he might need to pitch. In 2011, I'm not so sure leaving him in the bullpen was the best course of action, but we had rotation depth (at least at the time) and were coming off a division title, so short-term thinking won out.

But since the Reds can't afford to win bidding wars for top-shelf free-agent starters, if they have a guy on hand who offers the potential to be that guy, they're pretty much duty-bound to try it at some point. This seems like a feasible point. Uncertainty is part of the deal, which is why they'll need depth. But really, a team hardly ever gets through a season with the five original starters healthy and effective, so that's just what I'd consider normal contingency planning.

mth123
10-23-2011, 01:59 PM
Why do you say this? If there's anybody we're going to be "giving up on" it would be Volquez IMO. I fully expect to see him either in L'ville or traded by the beginning of next season. Homer's in the rotation.

If the Reds bring in a starter from outside, and have Chapman filling the fifth starter spot, how is there room for Bailey? Cueto, Leake and Arroyo will fill the other spots. One question mark with high upside in the rotation is reasonable, so if that's Chapman, Bailey and Volquez are odd men out and I don't see either being suited for the bullpen.

BTW, I fully expect Chapman to be a batting tee for about 200 innings or so while he learns to work his way through a line-up multiple times. That would put him on track to become what we all hope for the 2014 season (after Votto is gone and trying to win becomes a taller task). At that point, he'll be arb eligible, the remainder of his contract will convert to a signing bonus and hopefully the Reds can get 2 decent seasons out of him (but they won't be cheap) before he bolts to the Yankees or Red Sox for the big pay day.

No question moving Chapman to the rotation is the best thing for his career. I just suspect it won't be the best thing to help the Reds win while he's still here.

757690
10-23-2011, 02:51 PM
If the Reds bring in a starter from outside, and have Chapman filling the fifth starter spot, how is there room for Bailey? Cueto, Leake and Arroyo will fill the other spots. One question mark with high upside in the rotation is reasonable, so if that's Chapman, Bailey and Volquez are odd men out and I don't see either being suited for the bullpen.

BTW, I fully expect Chapman to be a batting tee for about 200 innings or so while he learns to work his way through a line-up multiple times. That would put him on track to become what we all hope for the 2014 season (after Votto is gone and trying to win becomes a taller task). At that point, he'll be arb eligible, the remainder of his contract will convert to a signing bonus and hopefully the Reds can get 2 decent seasons out of him (but they won't be cheap) before he bolts to the Yankees or Red Sox for the big pay day.

No question moving Chapman to the rotation is the best thing for his career. I just suspect it won't be the best thing to help the Reds win while he's still here.

Chapman was a starter up until mid 2010. He has significantly more experience starting than relieving. If anything, it would take him longer to get used to pitching everyday than it would for him to get used to pitching a complete game.

As for Bailey and Volquez, why is it bad to have too many options at starting pitching going into spring training?

mth123
10-23-2011, 03:05 PM
Chapman was a starter up until mid 2010. He has significantly more experience starting than relieving. If anything, it would take him longer to get used to pitching everyday than it would for him to get used to pitching a complete game.

As for Bailey and Volquez, why is it bad to have too many options at starting pitching going into spring training?

So far, against Major League hitters, he's been pretty good when he comes in and gives it all he's got for about 15 to 20 pitches. When he's not throwing 100 MPH, he gets hit. As a starter, he won't be working in that range. He'll probably be throwing 95 to 97 and when he does that now he gets hit hard. He wasn't even a good starter in AAA. Its going to take him a while to have the type of pitch selection that can fool major league hitters twice through a line-up (let alone 3 times). Add that he's never topped 120 innings in a season and he's not ready for the workload.

As for Bailey and Volquez, its not bad to have more than 5 starters, but if Chapman is in the rotation, those guys won't be good options for relief IMO. I think it takes them too long to warm up and Volquez control and first inning woes will make him useless. I don't see Bailey being on the team if he's not in the rotation. The 2012 Reds are a better team with Bailey in that 5th starter spot and Chapman in the bullpen and I could care less about the Reds grooming Chapman just for some other team to get the benfits when he blows town. He's a weapon as is that can help them win. I think he'll be a negative in the rotation.

757690
10-23-2011, 06:06 PM
So far, against Major League hitters, he's been pretty good when he comes in and gives it all he's got for about 15 to 20 pitches. When he's not throwing 100 MPH, he gets hit. As a starter, he won't be working in that range. He'll probably be throwing 95 to 97 and when he does that now he gets hit hard. He wasn't even a good starter in AAA. Its going to take him a while to have the type of pitch selection that can fool major league hitters twice through a line-up (let alone 3 times). Add that he's never topped 120 innings in a season and he's not ready for the workload.

As for Bailey and Volquez, its not bad to have more than 5 starters, but if Chapman is in the rotation, those guys won't be good options for relief IMO. I think it takes them too long to warm up and Volquez control and first inning woes will make him useless. I don't see Bailey being on the team if he's not in the rotation. The 2012 Reds are a better team with Bailey in that 5th starter spot and Chapman in the bullpen and I could care less about the Reds grooming Chapman just for some other team to get the benfits when he blows town. He's a weapon as is that can help them win. I think he'll be a negative in the rotation.

Chapman has not been hit hard yet in his time in the majors. His problem has been his control, for a one week period in May. Other than that four game bout of wildness, he was dominant last season. Including that week, he held batters to this slashline:

.147/.325/.209/.534

If the Reds stretch him out and have him compete for the starting job in spring training, there is no downside. First, chance are, between Cueto, Leake, Arroyo, Bailey, Volquez, Wood, Champan and anyone new brought in, only 5 will be healthy when the season starts. Remember last season when the Reds had "too many" starters in spring, only to start Chad Reineke in May?

But even if everyone is healthy, if Chapman isn't ready to start, they either send him to the minors or the pen. If he is, and he beats out Bailey and Volquez, then you trade Bailey and Volquez. Now, that only happens if they aren't good enough to win a spot in the rotation, so who cares?

If you don't stretch out Chapman, then all he can do is relieve, which means you are stuck with Bailey or Volquez, even if they aren't very good.

Stretching out Chapman is simply about creating more options, and if he isn't ready to start, it's no great loss.

mth123
10-23-2011, 07:08 PM
Chapman has not been hit hard yet in his time in the majors. His problem has been his control, for a one week period in May. Other than that four game bout of wildness, he was dominant last season. Including that week, he held batters to this slashline:

.147/.325/.209/.534

If the Reds stretch him out and have him compete for the starting job in spring training, there is no downside. First, chance are, between Cueto, Leake, Arroyo, Bailey, Volquez, Wood, Champan and anyone new brought in, only 5 will be healthy when the season starts. Remember last season when the Reds had "too many" starters in spring, only to start Chad Reineke in May?

But even if everyone is healthy, if Chapman isn't ready to start, they either send him to the minors or the pen. If he is, and he beats out Bailey and Volquez, then you trade Bailey and Volquez. Now, that only happens if they aren't good enough to win a spot in the rotation, so who cares?

If you don't stretch out Chapman, then all he can do is relieve, which means you are stuck with Bailey or Volquez, even if they aren't very good.

Stretching out Chapman is simply about creating more options, and if he isn't ready to start, it's no great loss.

Stretching him out is fine. Penciling him in is not. They aren't going to know based on spring training whether he should beat out Bailey for the last spot. So they either give it to him or not. If they wait until Spring and then decide, they'll probably have to give Bailey away. They should have stretched Chapman out in Mid August and gave him 5 or 6 starts at the end of the year against Major League hitters with a deep bullpen from expanded rosters backing him if they were trying to make a judgement. Seems to me they aren't going to have any more information than they do right now whether or not Chapman can handle starting until they put him in the rotation. I think the idea that Chapman is being stretched out to start means the decision has already been made. I think a bullpen sans Chapman is weaker than one wiith him, I think a rotation with Chapman in the 5th spot over Bailey is weaker than one with Bailey instead and, finally, if they pass on bringing some one in and have both Chapman and Bailey in the rotation, its akin to punting 2012. I suspect that final option is the option we'll see and its not enough to address this team's issues.

IslandRed
10-23-2011, 09:13 PM
I think a rotation with Chapman in the 5th spot over Bailey is weaker than one with Bailey instead

Well, yeah, I guess the whole exercise would seem like a waste of time if you don't think he's going to be any good.

mth123
10-23-2011, 09:21 PM
Well, yeah, I guess the whole exercise would seem like a waste of time if you don't think he's going to be any good.

I think he'll be good in 2014 or so.

Kc61
10-23-2011, 09:26 PM
Chapman as a starter, fine. Make everyone a starter. Starting depth is great.

Your bullpen is maybe Cordero, a free agent. Masset, Bray, and Ondrusek each of whom struggled in the second half. Masset has struggled a lot in the last two years. Arredondo.
That's about it.

I hope Walt is focusing on the bullpen. There is a severe shortage there. It will not just fall into place.

savafan
10-23-2011, 09:26 PM
I think many people forget that Chapman was a stud starting pitcher in Cuba. We tend to view him like a top draft pick out of high school who needs to learn the game.

klw
10-24-2011, 06:29 PM
Chapman threw an inning today with a walk and a strikeout.
http://www.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/y2010/index.jsp?gid=2011_10_24_pddwin_srrwin_1

Sea Ray
10-24-2011, 06:50 PM
Chapman threw an inning today with a walk and a strikeout.
http://www.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/y2010/index.jsp?gid=2011_10_24_pddwin_srrwin_1

Looks like he didn't start. What gives?

dougdirt
10-24-2011, 10:01 PM
Looks like he didn't start. What gives?

He only went one inning, does it matter whether it was inning one or inning four?

This is just to get his arm ready for starting in PR.

traderumor
10-25-2011, 06:58 AM
Chapman as a starter, fine. Make everyone a starter. Starting depth is great.

Your bullpen is maybe Cordero, a free agent. Masset, Bray, and Ondrusek each of whom struggled in the second half. Masset has struggled a lot in the last two years. Arredondo.
That's about it.

I hope Walt is focusing on the bullpen. There is a severe shortage there. It will not just fall into place.Wore out bullpen because of poor starting pitching. "Focusing on the bullpen" will start with improvements in the rotation.

redsfandan
10-25-2011, 08:03 AM
He only went one inning, does it matter whether it was inning one or inning four?

This is just to get his arm ready for starting in PR.

Excuse my ignorance, Doug, but are you implying that the plan is to warm him up in the Arizona Fall League and then give him some starts in winter ball to really stretch him back out to being a starting pitcher again?

Sea Ray
10-25-2011, 11:30 AM
He only went one inning, does it matter whether it was inning one or inning four?

This is just to get his arm ready for starting in PR.

Yes it does. Warming up to start is different. Are they preparing him to start or not? I don't see how pitching him one inning in the 4th prepare him to start?

mth123
10-25-2011, 07:02 PM
Yes it does. Warming up to start is different. Are they preparing him to start or not? I don't see how pitching him one inning in the 4th prepare him to start?

They are easing him back into starting. Its like Spring Training. Next time he may go 2 or 3 and then probably 3 or 4 and on to winter ball. And like Spring training, its upping the pitch counts and getting him used pitching, sitting while his team bats and then going back out there that matters, not whether he's the first pitcher of the game. He's layed off for a month and wasn't pitching long stretches all season. I'm glad they are going slow. He's still just 23 and in the danger zone for an arm injury. Did anyone think he was going to go 7 right away?

mdccclxix
10-31-2011, 05:20 PM
m_sheldon Mark Sheldon
Heard Chapman did not make AFL start today because of arm soreness. Will update when I know more. #reds


Hope it's not serious.

cinreds21
10-31-2011, 05:58 PM
It starts.

edabbs44
10-31-2011, 06:10 PM
Not something you want to see.

mdccclxix
10-31-2011, 06:47 PM
johnfayman John Fay
Chapman was scratched from today's start in Ariz w/ shoulder stiffness. Jocketty says it's not serious. Chapman may throw next week #reds