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RedsManRick
10-24-2011, 03:36 PM
Just came across this post on Beyond the Boxscore. It looks at hitters based on the 4 kinds of "swings" that result from classifying each by whether the ball was in the strike zone or not vs. whether the player took or swung.

Passive: Takes a lot of strikes, Doesn't swing at balls
Aggressive: Doesn't take a lot of strikes, Swings at a lot of balls
Passive+Aggressive: Takes a lot of strikes & Swings at a lot of balls
Neither (I'd say disciplined): Doesn't take a lot of strikes, Does't swing at many balls

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/10/23/2507020/rating-hitters-by-passiveness-and-aggressiveness

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/758865/Passive-Aggressive-Hitters-2011_medium.png

Not earth-shattering, but a cool way to look at this. What would be cool is a follow-up scatter-plot of Aggressiveness on one axis and Passivity on another.

MikeThierry
10-24-2011, 07:47 PM
Just came across this post on Beyond the Boxscore. It looks at hitters based on the 4 kinds of "swings" that result from classifying each by whether the ball was in the strike zone or not vs. whether the player took or swung.

Passive: Takes a lot of strikes, Doesn't swing at balls
Aggressive: Doesn't take a lot of strikes, Swings at a lot of balls
Passive+Aggressive: Takes a lot of strikes & Swings at a lot of balls
Neither (I'd say disciplined): Doesn't take a lot of strikes, Does't swing at many balls

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/10/23/2507020/rating-hitters-by-passiveness-and-aggressiveness

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/758865/Passive-Aggressive-Hitters-2011_medium.png

Not earth-shattering, but a cool way to look at this. What would be cool is a follow-up scatter-plot of Aggressiveness on one axis and Passivity on another.

It would certainly be a reason why Berkman had a comeback year this year out of several factors. He is really disciplined at the plate but hacks at everything within the strikezone.

757690
10-24-2011, 09:32 PM
I really like this approach to learning about the game. I have always felt that the heart of the game is the pitch by pitch battle between the hitter and pitcher in each at bat. Applying a statistical approach to understanding this battle can lead to some real breakthroughs, IMO. Thanks :)

mdccclxix
10-25-2011, 08:26 AM
Votto - 12.9% Passive Takes, 15% Aggressive Swings, 27.9% total, I may have done this wrong, but he should have been ranked 7th in Least Passive Aggressive. (Sorry all, you'll have to read the article to understand what I mean.)

edit: i'm using fangraphs and the article used bbprospectus, that may be why

mdccclxix
10-25-2011, 08:39 AM
Brandon 14.3% Passive Takes, 17.9% Aggressive Swings, 32.18% total. No idea where that ranks.

lollipopcurve
10-25-2011, 08:55 AM
Would like to know where Bruce is. It seemed to me he took a lot of strikes and swung at a lot of balls.

mdccclxix
10-25-2011, 09:01 AM
And Stubbs.

RedsManRick
10-25-2011, 01:48 PM
Votto - 12.9% Passive Takes, 15% Aggressive Swings, 27.9% total, I may have done this wrong, but he should have been ranked 7th in Least Passive Aggressive. (Sorry all, you'll have to read the article to understand what I mean.)

edit: i'm using fangraphs and the article used bbprospectus, that may be why

It looks like BP and Fangraphs have very different Zone_RT and Zone% stats. Votto's ZONE_RT (BP) IS 46.3%, while his Zone % is 41.0%. No clue why.

Here's the Reds BP data.

In Zone Out of Zone
NAME Swing Take Swing Take P+A
Drew Stubbs 31.8% 18.2% 11.7% 38.3% 29.9%
Paul Janish 36.7% 17.9% 12.3% 33.1% 30.2%
Chris Heisey 36.5% 15.3% 15.1% 33.1% 30.4%
Joey Votto 28.9% 17.4% 13.6% 40.1% 31.1%
Jay Bruce 30.5% 14.1% 17.6% 37.8% 31.8%
Brandon Phillip 35.5% 14.3% 17.9% 32.3% 32.2%
Miguel Cairo 33.4% 19.8% 12.5% 34.4% 32.3%
League Average 31.4% 19.1% 14.1% 35.3% 33.2%
Edgar Renteria 30.6% 20.7% 13.3% 35.4% 34.0%
Scott Rolen 32.6% 19.3% 15.0% 33.0% 34.3%
Ramon Hernandez 32.4% 19.0% 16.2% 32.5% 35.1%
Ryan Hanigan 30.1% 26.1% 9.1% 34.7% 35.2%
Jonny Gomes 23.0% 22.7% 13.2% 41.1% 35.9%

Here's my scatterplot using the BP data. Lines are the league averages. While these things are strongly correlated (so we shouldn't expect an evenly spaced plot), the guy who is the most unusual is Stubbs -- he falls the furthest away from league average, which could be represented by the imaginary line that runs from the top left to the bottom right (where the two figures always sum to 33.2%).

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/5408/reds2011passiveaggressi.jpg

I'm not sure if this is the best way to look at it, because we tend to think conditionally in this context. That is, we probably care more about what a guy does when he gets a ball or a strike rather than the overall % of pitches which are a given combination of location and swing choice. For example, Bruce and Votto each saw just 41% strikes compared to 51% for Janish.

So if you want to know, which guy is the most aggressive in the zone (or out of the zone), you want this table:

Name O-Swing% Z-Swing% Zone%
Jonny Gomes 25.6 % 53.4 % 41.8 %
Ryan Hanigan 25.2 % 56.1 % 46.9 %
Edgar Renteria 26.5 % 63.3 % 48.8 %
Ramon Hernandez 35.4 % 63.7 % 47.5 %
Miguel Cairo 28.5 % 64.7 % 48.7 %
Scott Rolen 32.7 % 64.7 % 47.8 %
Drew Stubbs 25.7 % 65.3 % 45.1 %
Joey Votto 25.4 % 68.5 % 41.0 %
Paul Janish 28.0 % 68.8 % 51.3 %
Chris Heisey 32.9 % 72.6 % 46.9 %
Jay Bruce 31.7 % 72.7 % 41.4 %
Brandon Phillips 35.3 % 76.8 % 45.3 %

Aggressive in zone: Phillips by far, followed by Bruce and Heisey.
Passive in zone (takes strikes): Gomes, followed by Hanigan and then nobody else is really close

Aggressive out of zone (chases): Hernandez, followed closely by Phillips
Passive out of zone (disciplined): Hanigan, followed closely by Votto, Gomes and Stubbs