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camisadelgolf
10-24-2011, 08:39 PM
Who is Redszone's #5 prospect?

#1 C Devin Mesoraco
#2 1B/OF Yonder Alonso
#3 C Yasmani Grandal
#4 SS Billy Hamilton

dougdirt
10-24-2011, 09:28 PM
Daniel Corcino. Big arm. Big numbers.

mace
10-24-2011, 11:01 PM
I got Zack's back, Mac.

texasdave
10-24-2011, 11:29 PM
It's time to think inside the Box. Brad for me.

bubbachunk
10-25-2011, 12:16 AM
Soto, huge power

crazybob60
10-25-2011, 12:18 AM
Zack has been my pick for the last few picks. Still sticking with him here. Normally, my number 4 spot would have gone to Hamilton.

mace
10-25-2011, 12:40 AM
It's time to think inside the Box. Brad for me.

If he becomes another, you know, Goose Gossage or something, White Castle will have to take out a concession stand at GABP and call them box burgers.

They both specialize in the slider.

REDblooded
10-25-2011, 12:54 AM
I'm not putting a relief pitcher in my top 10... Cozart here.

Kc61
10-25-2011, 01:12 AM
I'm not putting a relief pitcher in my top 10... Cozart here.

Relievers have rights too. I got Box at six.

Cozart is five. Reds starting shortstop deserves some love.

Really don't view Cozart as a prospect anymore, he's graduated IMO. But since he's still eligible, he gets my vote.

mdccclxix
10-25-2011, 10:00 AM
Stephanson. I expect to see a dominant performance from him next year. The kid has a lot of smarts and is very competitive. Toss in an athletic frame and a downward fastball that touches touch 97, I think he'll start fast in Billings or Dayton next season.

chicoruiz
10-25-2011, 10:27 AM
I went Stephenson, but I'm OK with Cozart.

The coming debate between Stephenson, Corcino and Box should be a lot of fun.

texasdave
10-25-2011, 10:29 AM
If he becomes another, you know, Goose Gossage or something, White Castle will have to take out a concession stand at GABP and call them box burgers.

They both specialize in the slider.

:laugh:

With an extra slice of cheese. Unlike White Castle, however, there are no holes in his repetoire.

osuceltic
10-25-2011, 10:54 AM
I feel like this is the point where you start getting into safe-bet role players (Cozart, Frazier) and question marks (Stephenson, Corcino). The system has been productive lately, which means most of the high-potential guys are lower in the system. That makes it tough to project. I went with Stephenson, but don't feel strongly about it.

TRF
10-25-2011, 01:38 PM
Soto. Special bat, hits for average as well as power.

The DARK
10-25-2011, 02:13 PM
Cozart, edging out Stephenson simply for the assurance he brings. He's just all-around good in every category: defense, average, pop, and reliability, not to mention he's coming off a great season and succeeded in his short MLB stint.

HokieRed
10-25-2011, 03:30 PM
Corcino. Same reasons I had him at 4, phenomenal K to W numbers for a 21 year old.

camisadelgolf
10-25-2011, 06:37 PM
As I said before, I picked Stephenson because I like his ceiling, but like Corcino, all the things I've heard about his intangibles (work ethic, attitude, etc.) have been positive.

Superdude
10-26-2011, 01:26 AM
As I said before, I picked Stephenson because I like his ceiling, but like Corcino, all the things I've heard about his intangibles (work ethic, attitude, etc.) have been positive.

Isn't Corcino pretty much what we want out of Stephenson a year or so from now? Does the arguable tick of extra upside in Stephenson really push him past the guy who just dominated the midwest league in his first full season?

The DARK
10-26-2011, 01:34 AM
Isn't Corcino pretty much what we want out of Stephenson a year or so from now? Does the arguable tick of extra upside in Stephenson really push him past the guy who just dominated the midwest league in his first full season?

I've seen some scouts at Dayton games characterize Corcino's likely ceiling as a 5th starter. While that may not be the case, it's worth noting that what Stephenson was drafted under the presumption that he had #1 upside. That's a pretty massive difference.

JaxRed
10-26-2011, 01:37 AM
Still voting (writing in) Cingrano.

camisadelgolf
10-26-2011, 01:48 AM
Still voting (writing in) Cingrano.
I'll try to remember to put him on the next ballot.

camisadelgolf
10-26-2011, 01:50 AM
Isn't Corcino pretty much what we want out of Stephenson a year or so from now? Does the arguable tick of extra upside in Stephenson really push him past the guy who just dominated the midwest league in his first full season?
I've also heard that Corcino is seen as more of a middle-to-the-back-of-the-rotation starter--maybe even a setup reliever. It's just a couple reports, so I take it with a grain of salt, but I believe the consensus is that Stephenson has the higher upside.

dougdirt
10-26-2011, 02:39 AM
I've seen some scouts at Dayton games characterize Corcino's likely ceiling as a 5th starter. While that may not be the case, it's worth noting that what Stephenson was drafted under the presumption that he had #1 upside. That's a pretty massive difference.

And I would wager that has more to do with his size, than his stuff. Stuff wise, Stephenson may be slightly ahead of Corcino, but it isn't by much. We also don't know much about his control of his stuff either. The one thing he has is better size. To me, that combo is why I would take Corcino over Stephenson right now, the unknown simply doesn't outweigh the known.

Superdude
10-26-2011, 03:15 AM
I've seen some scouts at Dayton games characterize Corcino's likely ceiling as a 5th starter. While that may not be the case, it's worth noting that what Stephenson was drafted under the presumption that he had #1 upside. That's a pretty massive difference.

I've only seen Corcino from the first base line, but unless the Dragons radar gun is way off, I find it hard to believe Corcino's ceiling doesn't go well beyond #5 starter. You don't see many guys sitting mid 90's with a hard slider and dominating single A hitters at twenty years old pegged as back of the rotation innings eaters.

*BaseClogger*
10-26-2011, 04:38 AM
Another offseason, and once again I just don't get the love for Zack Cozart. I was happy to see him be promoted this past season, but I just don't think his career .332 OBP will play well at the MLB level. He has above-average pop and is an above-average defender, but I'd be surprised if he ever OBPs over .320 for the Reds. I can't put a player who's ceiling isn't much higher than mediocre above talents like Corcino, Stephenson, etc...

RedsManRick
10-26-2011, 12:09 PM
Stephanson. I expect to see a dominant performance from him next year. The kid has a lot of smarts and is very competitive. Toss in an athletic frame and a downward fastball that touches touch 97, I think he'll start fast in Billings or Dayton next season.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him at the top of this list next year. But so far, he's not thrown a single professional pitch. Hard to put him above a guy who actual did dominate Dayton last year at age 20.

Scrap Irony
10-26-2011, 03:16 PM
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him at the top of this list next year. But so far, he's not thrown a single professional pitch. Hard to put him above a guy who actual did dominate Dayton last year at age 20.

Agreed. Stephenson may make the bottom part of my personal Top Ten. Then again, he may not. Not having played against any professional competition warrants no votes, IMO.

That said, I'm going with Corcino. Nice numbers across the board. Nice stuff.

I could be persuaded to go Torreyes, but he only had half a season in Dayton and I want to see more before ranking him top five. (Though I really like the kid as a prospect.)

dougdirt
10-26-2011, 06:11 PM
Another offseason, and once again I just don't get the love for Zack Cozart. I was happy to see him be promoted this past season, but I just don't think his career .332 OBP will play well at the MLB level. He has above-average pop and is an above-average defender, but I'd be surprised if he ever OBPs over .320 for the Reds. I can't put a player who's ceiling isn't much higher than mediocre above talents like Corcino, Stephenson, etc...

2011 MLB Shortstops: .263/.317/.380

So you think he will be above average with the glove and in power, but about average at getting on base. That sounds like a pretty solid player with a little more upside than "mediocre", especially one who is ready to play in the Majors today.

The DARK
10-26-2011, 06:46 PM
And I would wager that has more to do with his size, than his stuff. Stuff wise, Stephenson may be slightly ahead of Corcino, but it isn't by much. We also don't know much about his control of his stuff either. The one thing he has is better size. To me, that combo is why I would take Corcino over Stephenson right now, the unknown simply doesn't outweigh the known.

And I think that's the nature of forum prospect lists vs scout prospect lists. We at Redzone follow all of our affiliates all season long, so we tend to go by the production that we've seen over projectability. It's why we hype up guys like Sappelt, Torreyes, and Phipps, while the scouts that maybe only have one game and physical specs to go by have only eyes for big, toolsy guys like Hamilton and Duran. The most accurate lists are probably somewhere in between.

dougdirt
10-26-2011, 07:07 PM
And I think that's the nature of forum prospect lists vs scout prospect lists. We at Redzone follow all of our affiliates all season long, so we tend to go by the production that we've seen over projectability. It's why we hype up guys like Sappelt, Torreyes, and Phipps, while the scouts that maybe only have one game and physical specs to go by have only eyes for big, toolsy guys like Hamilton and Duran. The most accurate lists are probably somewhere in between.

Scouts are seeing these guys more than once unless they just happen to see a guy called up for one game before they leave. Generally though they are area scouts so they will probably see a team more than once a season for a full series. That may only leave them with seeing a pitcher once. I saw Corcino in April and he wasn't nearly as impressive as he was when I saw him in June. His velocity was probably 3 MPH higher on both ends in June than when I saw him in April, his breaking ball was tigher and his control was much better. So I guess I could see where one guy would say he was a #5 and another could say he was a #3, if they only saw him once.

I still think that the best lists are going to be a blend of scouting and stats, but the stats need to be predictive stats.

camisadelgolf
10-26-2011, 07:14 PM
Mike Leake was RedsZone's #2 prospect before he ever threw a pitch as a professional, and now there's a chance that Robert Stephenson won't even make RZ's top ten. Then again, the year that Leake was #2 on RZ, he was said to have a middle-of-the-rotation ceiling. His competition at the time was Yonder Alonso, Brad Boxberger, Neftali Soto, Zack Cozart, Yorman Rodriguez, Todd Frazier, Billy Hamilton, Devin Mesoraco . . .

Wait a second . . . why aren't people voting for Stephenson?

dougdirt
10-26-2011, 07:25 PM
Mike Leake was RedsZone's #2 prospect before he ever threw a pitch as a professional, and now there's a chance that Robert Stephenson won't even make RZ's top ten. Then again, the year that Leake was #2 on RZ, he was said to have a middle-of-the-rotation ceiling. His competition at the time was Yonder Alonso, Brad Boxberger, Neftali Soto, Zack Cozart, Yorman Rodriguez, Todd Frazier, Billy Hamilton, Devin Mesoraco . . .

Wait a second . . . why aren't people voting for Stephenson?

While I will absolutely have Stephenson inside of my Top 10, I wouldn't really compare him to Leake in this type of voting process. I think more people on here are "show me" rather than scouting type of prospect voters/followers and Leake had brilliant numbers at one of the best college baseball programs in the country and was a top 10 pick, while Stephenson is coming out of high school and went in the 20's (even though I will argue that in most years, someone of his talent would go in the top 10, this years draft was just stacked).

camisadelgolf
10-26-2011, 07:38 PM
That's understandable. Fwiw, iIrc, the #27 pick in the draft does about as well as the #8 pick in the daft. And from the last 5 drafts, I'd rather have the players picked at #27.

Rick Porcello + Carlos Gutierrez + Nick Franklin + Jesse Biddle + Robert Stephenson > Casey Weathers + Gordon Beckham + Mike Leake + Delino DeShields + Francisco Lindor imho

redsfandan
10-27-2011, 05:08 AM
I think more people on here are "show me" rather than scouting type of prospect voters/followers ...

Guilty as charged. :p